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[Preview] EverQuest: Answering the Call of the Forsaken

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,614MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

EverQuest will be expanding soon with the unprecedented twentieth expansion when Call of the Forsaken goes live. We scored a developer walkthrough of the expansion and have an exclusive preview to share. Read on before heading to the comments.

The largest feature everyone couldn't stop talking about would have to have been the Heroic Adventures. Heroic Adventures are basically dungeons that players can tackle either alone or as many as six people. Currently the feature will be for players level 95 to 100. What makes each heroic adventure special is that they're randomly generated. The layout will be different and the objectives will change, allowing for a unique experience every time you hop into one. It won't just come down to grinding the same dungeon for a special item you want.

Read more of Jeff Lerman's EverQuest: Answering the Call of the Forsaken.

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Comments

  • TygranirTygranir Colordo Springs, COPosts: 741Member
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  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  
  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by syriinx
    It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  

    LDON is pretty much the point at which the game started going downhill. They understood what they had before that.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by syriinx
    It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  

     

    LDON is pretty much the point at which the game started going downhill. They understood what they had before that.

     

    100% disagree.  LDoN was possibly EQ's peak.  The group mechanics, one of EQ's best features, were on full display here.  Pugging was at its absolute peak, the game was the most social during LDoN.  

     

    I dont think you can really point to a spot where EQ went downhill, because it never really did.  It just got old.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Ender4   Originally posted by syriinx It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  
      LDON is pretty much the point at which the game started going downhill. They understood what they had before that.  
    100% disagree.  LDoN was possibly EQ's peak.  The group mechanics, one of EQ's best features, were on full display here.  Pugging was at its absolute peak, the game was the most social during LDoN.  

     

    I dont think you can really point to a spot where EQ went downhill, because it never really did.  It just got old.


    And I would disagree. LDON is where the social aspect started to die because everyone hid in their own private little zone. Pugging was at its peak from day 1 in EQ, you walked into a dungeon and just shouted LFG and whichever camp lost your class recently brought you in. LDON also really killed the PvP servers. The peak of EQ was easily Kunark and Velious. The cracks in the armor started with PoP and then LDON really killed it. LDON is the point at which the game started to massively lose players. Obviously EQ2, SB, WOW etc had something to do with it as well.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by syriinx

    Originally posted by Ender4  

    Originally posted by syriinx It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  
      LDON is pretty much the point at which the game started going downhill. They understood what they had before that.  
    100% disagree.  LDoN was possibly EQ's peak.  The group mechanics, one of EQ's best features, were on full display here.  Pugging was at its absolute peak, the game was the most social during LDoN.  

     

     

    I dont think you can really point to a spot where EQ went downhill, because it never really did.  It just got old.


     

    And I would disagree. LDON is where the social aspect started to die because everyone hid in their own private little zone. Pugging was at its peak from day 1 in EQ, you walked into a dungeon and just shouted LFG and whichever camp lost your class recently brought you in. LDON also really killed the PvP servers. The peak of EQ was easily Kunark and Velious. The cracks in the armor started with PoP and then LDON really killed it. LDON is the point at which the game started to massively lose players. Obviously EQ2, SB, WOW etc had something to do with it as well.

    Everquest had a small dip in subs when GoD released, but its peak was actually during OoW and early DoN.  Its drop in playerbase coincides directly with EQ2 and WoW.  Maybe LDoN was the final nail in the PvP servers coffin, but EQ PvP was never popular compared to PvE and the servers died because SoE (wisely) decided it was best to mostly ignore PvP.  

    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious.  Many share your opinion.  It wasnt the peak though.

    Regardless, i stand by my statement that EQ never really got bad, it just got old. Things had to change. The game still has an active player base 15 years after release with active development, that speaks volumes.

     

  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member

    Im playing everquest again and its like a plethra of people running around / in chat . The newer zones are harder but thats exactly what I was looking for.

    I need to complain about something dont I ...hmmmm.. Plane of air hot zone sucks!

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by moguy2

    Plane of air hot zone sucks!

    i would agree image

  • KilrainKilrain Prineville, ORPosts: 684Member Uncommon
    The turning point for me was Shadows of Luclin, but not because it wasn't fun. Because it was the beginning of the end for player interaction IMO. The bazaar is evil.

    professional web programming and design.

  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

     

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

    My experience was different.  My guild was happiest during Omens of War, but thats also the time when casual raiding was at its peak.

    The single best feature of EQ didnt even come out until after Velious.  I couldnt stand late velious on the progression server because once at max level everything became pointless without AA.  Velious lore/zone design though was top notch.

     

    Peak of WoW was Ulduar in terms of both subs and quality.  But the biggest problem WoW had/still has is people grew tired of dailies and dungeon currency grinding.  While the raids arent as good as Ulduar, MoP overall is a fantastic expansion.  its just people are tired of the formula.  And they keep revamping the classes drastically.  Not just the talents, but the way they play.  I know i quit for a while after they gave paladins a stupid combo point mechanic.  if i wanted a combo point mechanic i would play a rogue or feral druid. 

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Kilrain
    The turning point for me was Shadows of Luclin, but not because it wasn't fun. Because it was the beginning of the end for player interaction IMO. The bazaar is evil.

    i didnt like the luclin adventure content at all

     

    I did like Luclin for

    - introduction of AA

    - introduction of Beastlords

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,750Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Originally posted by syriinx
    It only took them over a decade to understand why LDoN was one of the pinnacles of EQ:  the randomness, or at least the feeling of randomness.  

     

    LDON is pretty much the point at which the game started going downhill. They understood what they had before that.

     

    100% disagree.  LDoN was possibly EQ's peak.  The group mechanics, one of EQ's best features, were on full display here.  Pugging was at its absolute peak, the game was the most social during LDoN.  

     

    I dont think you can really point to a spot where EQ went downhill, because it never really did.  It just got old.

     LDon was certainly EQs peak for me...I made more friends during that expansion than all other ones combined.....The game has changed so much now though that I dont think a LDoN2 will have much long term success.

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,750Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

     

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

     I think what we are seeing is that MMOs are only good for so many expansions.....EQ has stretched that way further than I ever thought they could.....WoW is experiencing it now......I'm pretty sure WoW will never see a 20th expansion.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by Kilrain
    The turning point for me was Shadows of Luclin, but not because it wasn't fun. Because it was the beginning of the end for player interaction IMO. The bazaar is evil.

    i didnt like the luclin adventure content at all

     

    I did like Luclin for

    - introduction of AA

    - introduction of Beastlords

    To some extent this.

    I liked some of the zones (Hollowshade Moor is a cool one) but the aesthetics of most zones were depressing.  And my guild didnt do it until several expansions later, but I am one of the very few that LOVED the vex thal keying process.  Was a great guild bonding process.  Would never work with today's gamers though.  Actual raid was a big let down, but the loot was very cool.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

     

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

    My experience was different.  My guild was happiest during Omens of War, but thats also the time when casual raiding was at its peak.

    The single best feature of EQ didnt even come out until after Velious.  I couldnt stand late velious on the progression server because once at max level everything became pointless without AA.  Velious lore/zone design though was top notch.

     

    Peak of WoW was Ulduar in terms of both subs and quality.  But the biggest problem WoW had/still has is people grew tired of dailies and dungeon currency grinding.  While the raids arent as good as Ulduar, MoP overall is a fantastic expansion.  its just people are tired of the formula.  And they keep revamping the classes drastically.  Not just the talents, but the way they play.  I know i quit for a while after they gave paladins a stupid combo point mechanic.  if i wanted a combo point mechanic i would play a rogue or feral druid. 

     

    It is hard to pin down wow subs, but either way peaked at 12 million around 8 months after the last wing of ICC was released.  If we are talking only WoW West subs were pretty flat throughout most of wrath.  They only really experienced a dip at the very end of the xpack.  What makes it hard to pin down global subs is China.  They are calculated in with WoW East, which has more subs than WoW West by the way.  China is by far the biggest contributor of subs in WoW East.  The thing is expansions don't come out at the same time in China.  China was still on BC when we were on Wrath.  Also note that subs once again hit 12 million on the release of Cataclysm, but shortly after release they started nosediving.

     

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

     

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

     I think what we are seeing is that MMOs are only good for so many expansions.....EQ has stretched that way further than I ever thought they could.....WoW is experiencing it now......I'm pretty sure WoW will never see a 20th expansion.

    WoW might not see a 20th expansion, but it will see a 20th year.  And it will have probably 500k people still.

    But there becomes a point where most people get tired and move on.  while cataclysm was a weak expansion, MoP was not.  But people just move on, and after 4-5 years of playing something it becomes easy to find a reason to move on.

    But there will always be a certain amount of lifers, and thats why EQ has had a steady population for years.  its not a huge population, probably less than 100k, but its enough to keep the game rolling.  And thats why WoW will always be around as long as Blizzard wants it too, because it has a LOT of lifers.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by Theocritus
    Originally posted by Ender4

     


    Your favorite period was Kunark/Velious. Many share your opinion. It wasnt the peak though.

     

    Yeah I was talking the peak in quality not in subs. People were excited about the game during Kunark/Velious, they thought it was the best thing in the world. Planes of Power started to dent that some and then the few expansions after that did it even more. We kept playing the game but the feel of the playerbase that I was around was very different.

    Some of that is just how old the game was at that point but some of it was the direction they took it too.

    Kind of like how I see the peak of WoW to be the release of Wrath of the Lich King. By the time Cataclysm came out the game was going downhill, even if the subs weren't.

     I think what we are seeing is that MMOs are only good for so many expansions.....EQ has stretched that way further than I ever thought they could.....WoW is experiencing it now......I'm pretty sure WoW will never see a 20th expansion.

    WoW might not see a 20th expansion, but it will see a 20th year.  And it will have probably 500k people still.

    But there becomes a point where most people get tired and move on.  while cataclysm was a weak expansion, MoP was not.  But people just move on, and after 4-5 years of playing something it becomes easy to find a reason to move on.

    But there will always be a certain amount of lifers, and thats why EQ has had a steady population for years.  its not a huge population, probably less than 100k, but its enough to keep the game rolling.  And thats why WoW will always be around as long as Blizzard wants it too, because it has a LOT of lifers.

    Players getting tired and moving on would probably be a gradual trend.  What we have been seeing post Cataclysm is not a gradual trend.  It is a steep downward trend.  Despite what people say, MoP only had any increase in subs at the very beginning of the xpack, after the initial surge subs have taken the same steep downward trend we saw in Cataclysm.  Age is gradual and thus so would the downward trend be, however the rate of decline we have been seeing post Cataclysm seems to be indicative of something else entirely.  What exactly is something Blizzard has been struggling to figure out with a whole lot of trial and error, and they seem to be coming up with errors more than answers.(if subs are any indicator)

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jbombard
     

    Players getting tired and moving on would probably be a gradual trend.  What we have been seeing post Cataclysm is not a gradual trend.  It is a steep downward trend.  Despite what people say, MoP only had any increase in subs at the very beginning of the xpack, after the initial surge subs have taken the same steep downward trend we saw in Cataclysm.  Age is gradual and thus so would the downward trend be, however the rate of decline we have been seeing post Cataclysm seems to be indicative of something else entirely.  What exactly is something Blizzard has been struggling to figure out with a whole lot of trial and error, and they seem to be coming up with errors more than answers.(if subs are any indicator)

    Its not really that steep, its been a 3 year period now.  the game has lost roughly 1/3 of its subs over the last three years.  

    How have similar aged games like EQ2 and LOTRO done over the same span?  probably about the same, worse in LOTRO's case.

    FFXI went from 500k subs in late 2008 to 350k subs in mid 2011...fairly close to a 33% drop..also right around the same age range that WoW started losing subs.

     

    WoWs decline seems steep because of the sheer numbers involved, but when you look at percentages it doesnt seem so unusual.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon

    another one:  Lineage, over 3 million in late 2003, 2 million by the end of the year (mostly before WoW release so cant blame WoW).  Also 5-6 years after release.

     

    Sure seems like WoW's decline is normal, its in line with what Lineage, EQ, FFXI (aka the industry's biggest successes) have done.  ultima Online fits too.  DAoC had a similar drop, but a little bit earlier in its lifetime (ToA?).  In fact all these games seem to have had the drops happen over a shorter period of time.

     

    Of course there is the one outlier, the one that keeps growing and growing and growing.   EvE.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by jbombard
     

    Players getting tired and moving on would probably be a gradual trend.  What we have been seeing post Cataclysm is not a gradual trend.  It is a steep downward trend.  Despite what people say, MoP only had any increase in subs at the very beginning of the xpack, after the initial surge subs have taken the same steep downward trend we saw in Cataclysm.  Age is gradual and thus so would the downward trend be, however the rate of decline we have been seeing post Cataclysm seems to be indicative of something else entirely.  What exactly is something Blizzard has been struggling to figure out with a whole lot of trial and error, and they seem to be coming up with errors more than answers.(if subs are any indicator)

    Its not really that steep, its been a 3 year period now.  the game has lost roughly 1/3 of its subs over the last three years.  

    How have similar aged games like EQ2 and LOTRO done over the same span?  probably about the same, worse in LOTRO's case.

    FFXI went from 500k subs in late 2008 to 350k subs in mid 2011...fairly close to a 33% drop..also right around the same age range that WoW started losing subs.

     

    WoWs decline seems steep because of the sheer numbers involved, but when you look at percentages it doesnt seem so unusual.

    If you don't consider expansions WoW has been losing subs at a rate of 2 million per year.  Years with an expansion you see a surge of up to about 1 million subs at the beggining, so you still end up with a net decrease of 1 million subs at the end of an expansion year.  If you extrapolate that out WoW has about 3 years left. Now I doubt WoW will continue to lose subs at the rate of 2 million subs a year.  However the rate at which they are decreasing now IS significant.

  • syriinxsyriinx New York, NYPosts: 1,063Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jbombard
    Originally posted by syriinx
    Originally posted by jbombard
     

    Players getting tired and moving on would probably be a gradual trend.  What we have been seeing post Cataclysm is not a gradual trend.  It is a steep downward trend.  Despite what people say, MoP only had any increase in subs at the very beginning of the xpack, after the initial surge subs have taken the same steep downward trend we saw in Cataclysm.  Age is gradual and thus so would the downward trend be, however the rate of decline we have been seeing post Cataclysm seems to be indicative of something else entirely.  What exactly is something Blizzard has been struggling to figure out with a whole lot of trial and error, and they seem to be coming up with errors more than answers.(if subs are any indicator)

    Its not really that steep, its been a 3 year period now.  the game has lost roughly 1/3 of its subs over the last three years.  

    How have similar aged games like EQ2 and LOTRO done over the same span?  probably about the same, worse in LOTRO's case.

    FFXI went from 500k subs in late 2008 to 350k subs in mid 2011...fairly close to a 33% drop..also right around the same age range that WoW started losing subs.

     

    WoWs decline seems steep because of the sheer numbers involved, but when you look at percentages it doesnt seem so unusual.

    If you don't consider expansions WoW has been losing subs at a rate of 2 million per year.  Years with an expansion you see a surge of up to about 1 million subs at the beggining, so you still end up with a net decrease of 1 million subs at the end of an expansion year.  If you extrapolate that out WoW has about 3 years left. Now I doubt WoW will continue to lose subs at the rate of 2 million subs a year.  However the rate at which they are decreasing now IS significant.

    you are making the mistake of looking at raw numbers.  Its all about %es.  And all other major MMOs with the exception of EvE have had a similar % drop around their 5th/6th year, if not sooner.

    And its very clear from playing the game, there are a LOT of lifers.  So the decline will level off sooner or later.  And whats left will still be very profitable.

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