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Target based combat ? Really?

SNAFUdamusSNAFUdamus Ballston Spa, NYPosts: 56Member

What is going to make this game different  than every other MMO out there. I mean, we now have classes in a game they promised would be skill based.

Now I hear that the combat will be target based and not based on AIMING? Really, so this is just another in a VERY long line of MMOs where all you do in combat is spam the TAB KEY, find a target then SPAM skill keys until the target is dead? in 2013 copying other MMOs is STILL all game companies know how to do?

What happened to aiming?

What happened to ACTIVE BLOCKING?

 

 

What is different about ESO now? It looks to me like it is just another WoW, SWToR, or pick what ever garden variety game that requires zero skill to play.

The more I read about the game the more disheartened with it I become.

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Comments

  • tom_goretom_gore TamperePosts: 1,796Member Uncommon
    Because it looks like only SOE can make FPS mechanics work in an MMO (and Aventurine, sort of).
  • Ender4Ender4 milwaukee, WIPosts: 2,253Member

    Well all of the aiming combat MMOs have been pretty bad and the combat systems haven't really worked all that well once you really dig into them. GW2 probably has the best setup, some stuff is targeted, some is aimed and if something gets between you and an enemy the targeted stuff will hit them.

    Aiming is not an important part of combat anyway, positioning is. If you have to position yourself properly then the system will work.

  • TheBigDRCTheBigDRC Everson, WAPosts: 162Member

    So you're going on something you've heard rather than seen, huh?

    I wouldn't give it much merit at all. That's how needless panic and stupid actions rise is from the furor of a crowd that takes baseless information and uses it as a weapon.

    Just wait until we actually SEE something concrete to discern for ourselves.

    You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.

  • pierthpierth San Antonio, TXPosts: 1,503Member

    Are they really adding tab targetting? I may have to give this a try.

    Any chance of adding editable macros such as Rift?

  • ShaighShaigh Posts: 546Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SNAFUdamus

    What is going to make this game different  than every other MMO out there. I mean, we now have classes in a game they promised would be skill based.

    Now I hear that the combat will be target based and not based on AIMING? Really, so this is just another in a VERY long line of MMOs where all you do in combat is spam the TAB KEY, find a target then SPAM skill keys until the target is dead? in 2013 copying other MMOs is STILL all game companies know how to do?

    What happened to aiming?

    What happened to ACTIVE BLOCKING?

     

     

    What is different about ESO now? It looks to me like it is just another WoW, SWToR, or pick what ever garden variety game that requires zero skill to play.

    The more I read about the game the more disheartened with it I become.

    You have to aim attacks.Tab key allows you to attack one mob in a crowd.

  • DeniZgDeniZg ZagrebPosts: 669Member Uncommon

    My interest in this game has dropped substantially after the reveal of their combat targetting system.

    However, after several leaks and discussions on certain web sites, I've realized that their combat system is the most similar to Neverwinter Online, which I actually enjoyed the most out of any MMO.

    In Neverwinter, you have to manually aim, but you don't have to be extremely precise, you just have to aim close to your target, otherwise, the skill will not fire. 

    Granted, it's not cool and skill based as Wildstar aiming system, but it's definitely not tab-targeting.

  • cnutempcnutemp Fairfax, VAPosts: 229Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SNAFUdamus

    What is going to make this game different  than every other MMO out there. I mean, we now have classes in a game they promised would be skill based.

    Now I hear that the combat will be target based and not based on AIMING? Really, so this is just another in a VERY long line of MMOs where all you do in combat is spam the TAB KEY, find a target then SPAM skill keys until the target is dead? in 2013 copying other MMOs is STILL all game companies know how to do?

    What happened to aiming?

    What happened to ACTIVE BLOCKING?

     

     

    What is different about ESO now? It looks to me like it is just another WoW, SWToR, or pick what ever garden variety game that requires zero skill to play.

    The more I read about the game the more disheartened with it I become.

    Source?

  • zevni78zevni78 grimsbyPosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    Yes, I've had this confirmed by PAX and beta players, this is "soft" aiming, TES purists will not like it but its a technical limitation, Zeni seem very aware of the limitations of mmos, and rather than try to innovate they compromise.

    I guess it won't be that bad once you get used to it, though I know some beta testers that hate it with a passion. It will at least superficially look like TES combat, and may be as immersive for some.

  • TibbzTibbz Houston, TXPosts: 619Member
    Originally posted by zevni78

    Yes, I've had this confirmed by PAX and beta players, this is "soft" aiming, TES purists will not like it but its a technical limitation, Zeni seem very aware of the limitations of mmos, and rather than try to innovate they compromise.

    I guess it won't be that bad once you get used to it, though I know some beta testers that hate it with a passion. It will at least superficially look like TES combat, and may be as immersive for some.

    ^ This, kind of a hybrid tab targeting.

    We will get a Great Elder Scrolls game, with some additional Generic MMO features..  All good to me .  

    image
  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member
    Originally posted by SNAFUdamus

    What is going to make this game different  than every other MMO out there. I mean, we now have classes in a game they promised would be skill based.

    Now I hear that the combat will be target based and not based on AIMING? Really, so this is just another in a VERY long line of MMOs where all you do in combat is spam the TAB KEY, find a target then SPAM skill keys until the target is dead? in 2013 copying other MMOs is STILL all game companies know how to do?

    What happened to aiming?

    What happened to ACTIVE BLOCKING?

     

     

    What is different about ESO now? It looks to me like it is just another WoW, SWToR, or pick what ever garden variety game that requires zero skill to play.

    The more I read about the game the more disheartened with it I become.

     What happened to common sense?

    What happened to checking facts?

    What happened to not going beserk on the interwebs everytime someone "hears" something?

    There is no tab targeting, only soft locking.  You still actively aim, you still actively block.

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon

    To help educate the original poster or anyone else that panics from what was written, here is how the targeting works which I think is a very healthy compromise between the single player game and the reality of placing balanced combat in an MMO for all skill types..especially since targeting in PVP or situations in PVE will be more complex due to the # of characters on the screen at once which was rarely if ever an issue with the single player games. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

    There are two targeting systems in ESO. The first is the default system of "soft-lock" targeting which essentially assists the player in aiming attacks and projectiles provided they have their reticle aimed reasonably closely to an enemy player or monster. Allow your reticle to stray too far away from your target, and your attacks will miss altogether. The second targeting system is similar to "tab-targeting", this allows you to focus a specific enemy within a group to manually specify the target of your attacks. An important note with this system is that you are still required to aim your attacks towards your target. The tab locking simply exists to help you specify which enemy out of a crowd of multiple targets is the focus of your attacks.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • SNAFUdamusSNAFUdamus Ballston Spa, NYPosts: 56Member
    Originally posted by vmoped

     What happened to common sense?

    What happened to checking facts?

    What happened to not going beserk on the interwebs everytime someone "hears" something?

    There is no tab targeting, only soft locking.  You still actively aim, you still actively block.

     

    Going berserk? Really you think my post was that of a person going berserk?

     

    Its tab and spam no matter how you try to justify it.

  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by SNAFUdamus
    Originally posted by vmoped

     What happened to common sense?

    What happened to checking facts?

    What happened to not going beserk on the interwebs everytime someone "hears" something?

    There is no tab targeting, only soft locking.  You still actively aim, you still actively block.

     

    Going berserk? Really you think my post was that of a person going berserk?

     

    Its tab and spam no matter how you try to justify it.

    What part of "you still have to aim" are you not understanding? 

  • TuchakaTuchaka san diego, CAPosts: 468Member
    sad thing about this game is they are basically jamming a great sandbox into  a theme park skin with only lip service being played to actual sandbox ideas and then saying its the best of both worlds which is why i am not gonna play it.
  • VincerKadenVincerKaden Edison, NJPosts: 457Member
    Originally posted by Tuchaka
    sad thing about this game is they are basically jamming a great sandbox into  a theme park skin with only lip service being played to actual sandbox ideas and then saying its the best of both worlds which is why i am not gonna play it.

    I think I'm with you on that. I love the single player games of the genre. But this MMO just isn't getting me excited. There really is no "best of both worlds" when mixing sandbox and themepark. Any ingredient from one pretty much ruins the flavor of the other.

    image

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,557Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by keithian

    To help educate the original poster or anyone else that panics from what was written, here is how the targeting works which I think is a very healthy compromise between the single player game and the reality of placing balanced combat in an MMO for all skill types..especially since targeting in PVP or situations in PVE will be more complex due to the # of characters on the screen at once which was rarely if ever an issue with the single player games. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

    There are two targeting systems in ESO. The first is the default system of "soft-lock" targeting which essentially assists the player in aiming attacks and projectiles provided they have their reticle aimed reasonably closely to an enemy player or monster. Allow your reticle to stray too far away from your target, and your attacks will miss altogether. The second targeting system is similar to "tab-targeting", this allows you to focus a specific enemy within a group to manually specify the target of your attacks. An important note with this system is that you are still required to aim your attacks towards your target. The tab locking simply exists to help you specify which enemy out of a crowd of multiple targets is the focus of your attacks.

    It all depends on what their definition of reasonably close is.  If they mean in the general direction it will still suck.  If they mean really close that would be ok...imo.  

    What does aiming have to do with balance?  Are we too concerned that some people won't be able to aim?

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    doesn't matter either way to me, as long as there is an active block button. It seems so silly now for all those years I've been pvpn without being able to block an attack I see coming to me.
  • iJustWantiJustWant Somewhere, WAPosts: 81Member

    I heard on Fox News that someone said that they overheard someone else say that they think some people say the sky is falling.

     

    Therefore, ESO must have tab targeting, and is doomed to fail.

     

    image
  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by keithian

    To help educate the original poster or anyone else that panics from what was written, here is how the targeting works which I think is a very healthy compromise between the single player game and the reality of placing balanced combat in an MMO for all skill types..especially since targeting in PVP or situations in PVE will be more complex due to the # of characters on the screen at once which was rarely if ever an issue with the single player games. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

    There are two targeting systems in ESO. The first is the default system of "soft-lock" targeting which essentially assists the player in aiming attacks and projectiles provided they have their reticle aimed reasonably closely to an enemy player or monster. Allow your reticle to stray too far away from your target, and your attacks will miss altogether. The second targeting system is similar to "tab-targeting", this allows you to focus a specific enemy within a group to manually specify the target of your attacks. An important note with this system is that you are still required to aim your attacks towards your target. The tab locking simply exists to help you specify which enemy out of a crowd of multiple targets is the focus of your attacks.

    It all depends on what their definition of reasonably close is.  If they mean in the general direction it will still suck.  If they mean really close that would be ok...imo.  

    What does aiming have to do with balance?  Are we too concerned that some people won't be able to aim?

    This is just my opinion of course, but I feel after playing Skyrim that melee and stealth classes would have a HUGE advantage over range classes (minus AOE effects) if the exact same aiming system was in this MMO....especially in PVP. Again, just my opinion based on my experiences in the single player games.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mardukk
    Originally posted by keithian

    To help educate the original poster or anyone else that panics from what was written, here is how the targeting works which I think is a very healthy compromise between the single player game and the reality of placing balanced combat in an MMO for all skill types..especially since targeting in PVP or situations in PVE will be more complex due to the # of characters on the screen at once which was rarely if ever an issue with the single player games. Source is Tamriel Foundry.

    There are two targeting systems in ESO. The first is the default system of "soft-lock" targeting which essentially assists the player in aiming attacks and projectiles provided they have their reticle aimed reasonably closely to an enemy player or monster. Allow your reticle to stray too far away from your target, and your attacks will miss altogether. The second targeting system is similar to "tab-targeting", this allows you to focus a specific enemy within a group to manually specify the target of your attacks. An important note with this system is that you are still required to aim your attacks towards your target. The tab locking simply exists to help you specify which enemy out of a crowd of multiple targets is the focus of your attacks.

    It all depends on what their definition of reasonably close is.  If they mean in the general direction it will still suck.  If they mean really close that would be ok...imo.  

    What does aiming have to do with balance?  Are we too concerned that some people won't be able to aim?

    It means in generall direction. I saw some guy playing archer and it looked idiotic as arrows didnt fly where he aimed. They should either make it manual or tab. What they implemented should be called half-ass targetting as it will piss people who prefer tab and wont satisfy players who prefer manual aiming.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,461Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cura
     

    It means in generall direction. I saw some guy playing archer and it looked idiotic as arrows didnt fly where he aimed. They should either make it manual or tab. What they implemented should be called half-ass targetting as it will piss people who prefer tab and wont satisfy players who prefer manual aiming.

    You could be right.

    When I tried the demo at PAX I was very frustrated because I kept trying to dodge magic attacks that just kept swerving and connecting. I couldn't stand it.

  • SiugSiug TallinnPosts: 1,236Member Uncommon
    Personally I don't mind target based combat if it requires use of brains. Whether it's good or bad remains yet to be seen but I certainly know that a meaningful target based combat like it was in EQ beats GW2 style dps zerg shite any time.
  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Yeh tab targeting is kind of lame, but there seems to be a lot of players that love it, so what can you do (other than come here to these forums and bltch)?  I would like to see more MMOs use skill targeting like in SMITE, which Wildstar seems to be doing.  However, there are things about Wildstar that are steering me away from that title. 

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,553Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by tom_gore
    Because it looks like only SOE can make FPS mechanics work in an MMO (and Aventurine, sort of).

    You are forgetting about Firefall and Defiance.

     

  • aspekxaspekx Brandon, FLPosts: 2,167Member
    my biggest issue is the npc hard lock targeting. unlike ESO games in the past you cannot dodge out of the way or duck behind an object in order to avoid an incoming attack, like a missile attack for instance. that attack will follow you around a corner if necessary in order to hit you.

    "There are at least two kinds of games.
    One could be called finite, the other infinite.
    A finite game is played for the purpose of winning,
    an infinite game for the purpose of continuing play."
    Finite and Infinite Games, James Carse

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