I've always felt that since sex is such an intimate thing, I want it to be treated as such even in video games. Sex, to me, has no place in a "massively" or "multiplayer" game.
Matryoshka- "I'm getting really tired of video game journalists who have a stick up their butt about the female body in video games." To be fair, we're getting really tired of idiot males, like yourself
Another layer is that, in games like GTA, women are literally objects.
Oh, try any Illusion game and you will open a whole new world. Anyway your arguments are false and old as this world. Because no, I'll not go on a street and start shooting people left and right just because i'm playing GTA 5 and Trevor with him "anger management" is my favourite hero. Also not playing GTA 5 isn't stopped some guy in Switzerland from raping his daughter for over 24 years. FFS there are a lot of slaves, including sexual slaves all over this world, killing, torturing and etc. Humanity is sick and always were sick. At least some large part of it. Some games just show that to you, expose that side of humanity and you blame that games in all that in return? Lol, it's like US government: "Bad guy isn't the one who shot the whole bunch of civilians in Iraq from helicopter, but the one who shown that footage to the whole world". Wake up, this thing always were out there. Before PCs, before newspapers, before printing press, before everything. Of course you can pretend that no such things are there in our world, just some unicorns and rainbows. Games are such an easy target to blame for everything. Failed as a parent? Absolutely not your fault, it's TV and video games! Some mentally ill person get a shitload (legally!) of weapons and made some massacre in local school? That have nothing to do with laws and that no one give a fuck before something awful really happens! It's all about GTA 4 that this guy were playing. That's for sure, I tell you.
But ofc we are just a bunch of disgusting braindead humans (not only males as i can see). Just because we have our own opinions that don't go with yours.
But there are games where all this sex, nudity, drugs and alcohol are in context of the game. Like in GTA. I'm totally ok with that. But in some games it's out of context. Mostly in MMOs but in some single player also (like one scene in God of War 3). I don't hate that kind of games, i just can't see a point in that. Like Scarlet Blade. I really don't see a point in being a half naked girl running around in pretty generic MMORPG.
What I see in this article is the similar theme expressed on other forums. Due to the ways of being raised in conservative christian roots, the very thought of sex, clothing-styles, or simple nudity is still considered Taboo.
If sex is placed in a game, it automatically judged as to have no "place". While this culture actively embraces blood-shed and violence on fictional-polygon generated models in a video-game simulator, but nudity or expression of sexuality is forbidden and looked down upon. This is why video-games currently as today in the western region are purely lacking a sex-engine within the games or further explorations on the topic of sex itself. It is also why the AO title is considered rare in the west, and why smaller-non mainstream developers publish their products without the use of main-stream advertisers but their own.
A book can have similar themes, both sex, both violence and sell for millions and become one of the top rated critically acclaimed pieces of work. In video-games, due to past-guidelines created by other big companies in the past, and marketing the game industry has forced itself into a corner on the belief that gaming must be only a PG-13 concept and or strictly for children or a G-rated audience. It has become endorsed with political agenda's that are aiming in essential to censor certain art and expressions in the gaming world, with little to no resistance. Where pixels and ideas are treated as real beings than to be viewed as the works of fiction that they are. Have we forgotten that these video-games were once based on board-games, that were once based upon literature? Some literature has derived from very mature themes, like Age of Conan where the topic of sexuality is present.
Games which are rated M in the west are not truly, M-rated games in the west. While the main issues of objectification have been discussed the other issue between the difference of artistic expression and freedom of speech, have been avoided. Where or what is the difference between actual, true "objectification" and "artwork i don't like because it offends my sensibilities in some way"?
This issue comes in particular with female character models in video-games. Political groups and alike argue that the use of a female character as alluring provides an negative impact upon woman as a whole. On the other-hand, there has been no proven data or statistics that visually rendered fictional non-existant females in video-games have indeed proven to be an actual toxicification to both the game and real-life communities. The same slippery-slope stand-points have been used towards the themes of violence in video-games. That playing games with violence in them, will somehow lead to a extravagant moral decay on society itself. What we have here upon the issue mostly, are reactions in response in regulation of power and control. Those who believe out of a moral obligation, to fit in with the current social status, or gender-driven pride that video-games are not allowed, and should not be allowed to express sexuality period.
But sexuality has been expressed, and has been for years. Movies actively express it with romp scenes between characters and relationships. The average romance book for females, written for women and even by women, express sexuality. Ironically by these stances, other groups and others are actively saying that females should not be able to express sexuality in video-games, and should be ashamed if doing so. Many of these vocal woman however, have had issues on a level of acceptance either of their own bodies or other complications,<marriages, boyfriends, interactions with men, etc> and therefore view any material that is sexual as a threat. Thus it is automatically "demeaning" and "objectification" . If a female was comfortable with herself, would she not care of a mere pixel had clothing on or not?
There is a erotic/sex-engine game now called Venus Rising who's creator is a female. Yet there are books like 50 Shades of Grey that are erotic yet created by another female. Are these women foul for creating the materials they have? Not at all. It is simply our unacceptance in realization that sexuality is very much apart of the human aspect. If sex or sexuality can be discussed in talk-shows, expressed in movies or in books, it is limiting to assume that it cannot be so in a video-game. By trailing under the shield of white-knighting sexuality in an attempt to "perserve and protect the dignity" of woman, ironically it is also telling them that they should be ashamed of or unable to play or express erotic-type characters in the game world of their choice.
But on average statistics have indicated that over 66% that watch erotic materials are female.
How long shall there be denial that females are without sexuality? Shall we become like a middle-eastern country in gaming when it comes to the issue of clothing or the concept of sex with fictional characters?
What I see in this article is the similar theme expressed on other forums. Due to the ways of being raised in conservative christian roots, the very thought of sex, clothing-styles, or simple nudity is still considered Taboo.
How long shall there be denial that females are without sexuality? Shall we become like a middle-eastern country in gaming when it comes to the issue of clothing or the concept of sex with fictional characters?
1. Many non-christian cultures view sex as something private. There is a reason why nearly every culture in the world wears clothing. It's not because of "christian ethics on sexuality" it's a general human acknowledgement.
2. No one is arguing that there can't be places for sexuality to be expressed. The question is whether sexualized women and/or men rightly acknowledges sex. In reality, using "sex to sell" is just as offensive in a beer commercial as it is an mmo. If you are going to "reel guys in" by playing the sex card, that is simply sexualizing women, nothing more, nothing less.
OK, this is a little late in the discussion, and I abhor the objectification bit? But let me say as a female mostly hetero type, the dudes are pretty hot too, even the wiry (and really, ESPECIALLY the wiry) rogue types.
In mammals, physical fitness is an indicator of health, and a lot of social mammals engage in mock or real combat in order to display for their mates -- usually the males but sometimes females too. Females also need to look healthy, sleek or fat depending on the species, good pelts, clear eyes, good skin, no nasty runny bits where there shouldn't be -- healthy, strong, solid, good smells, all that.
Game designers pick up from comic book superhero designers, who pick up from puppet designers and other exaggerated charicature designers of the 19th, 18th and go all the way back to Greece and the ancient world -- look at ancient pottery or tombs, for gods' sakes. Those figures were way disproportionate in some ways that make video game figures look modest, yo?
These memetics speak health and power and vitality to us, and they have very little to do with modern sex appeal. We certainly map that on them, but don't blame it entirely on modern boys and girls. We are digging into our ur-vocabulary here.
So when our host here, good Catholic boy if he doesn't mind me saying so, says "Throw a cassock over it!" he is repeating a message his spiritual predecessors have been preaching in vain for 1500 or so years. It hasn't worked so far for many of us, because regardless of the appeals to reason and civilization, the ur-vocabulary tends to appeal to our use of our time and pocketbooks.
I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying -- I doubt if humanity is changing soon.
Victor, either three weeks isn't enough, or you need to learn to breathe deeply, I am so sorry (says the 54 year old civic activist...;). I hope you weathered to storms well, my dear, of whatever sorts they were that you've been experiencing.
Comments
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
I'm actually a female.
Oh, try any Illusion game and you will open a whole new world. Anyway your arguments are false and old as this world. Because no, I'll not go on a street and start shooting people left and right just because i'm playing GTA 5 and Trevor with him "anger management" is my favourite hero. Also not playing GTA 5 isn't stopped some guy in Switzerland from raping his daughter for over 24 years. FFS there are a lot of slaves, including sexual slaves all over this world, killing, torturing and etc. Humanity is sick and always were sick. At least some large part of it. Some games just show that to you, expose that side of humanity and you blame that games in all that in return? Lol, it's like US government: "Bad guy isn't the one who shot the whole bunch of civilians in Iraq from helicopter, but the one who shown that footage to the whole world". Wake up, this thing always were out there. Before PCs, before newspapers, before printing press, before everything. Of course you can pretend that no such things are there in our world, just some unicorns and rainbows. Games are such an easy target to blame for everything. Failed as a parent? Absolutely not your fault, it's TV and video games! Some mentally ill person get a shitload (legally!) of weapons and made some massacre in local school? That have nothing to do with laws and that no one give a fuck before something awful really happens! It's all about GTA 4 that this guy were playing. That's for sure, I tell you.
But ofc we are just a bunch of disgusting braindead humans (not only males as i can see). Just because we have our own opinions that don't go with yours.
But there are games where all this sex, nudity, drugs and alcohol are in context of the game. Like in GTA. I'm totally ok with that. But in some games it's out of context. Mostly in MMOs but in some single player also (like one scene in God of War 3). I don't hate that kind of games, i just can't see a point in that. Like Scarlet Blade. I really don't see a point in being a half naked girl running around in pretty generic MMORPG.
What I see in this article is the similar theme expressed on other forums. Due to the ways of being raised in conservative christian roots, the very thought of sex, clothing-styles, or simple nudity is still considered Taboo.
If sex is placed in a game, it automatically judged as to have no "place". While this culture actively embraces blood-shed and violence on fictional-polygon generated models in a video-game simulator, but nudity or expression of sexuality is forbidden and looked down upon. This is why video-games currently as today in the western region are purely lacking a sex-engine within the games or further explorations on the topic of sex itself. It is also why the AO title is considered rare in the west, and why smaller-non mainstream developers publish their products without the use of main-stream advertisers but their own.
A book can have similar themes, both sex, both violence and sell for millions and become one of the top rated critically acclaimed pieces of work. In video-games, due to past-guidelines created by other big companies in the past, and marketing the game industry has forced itself into a corner on the belief that gaming must be only a PG-13 concept and or strictly for children or a G-rated audience. It has become endorsed with political agenda's that are aiming in essential to censor certain art and expressions in the gaming world, with little to no resistance. Where pixels and ideas are treated as real beings than to be viewed as the works of fiction that they are. Have we forgotten that these video-games were once based on board-games, that were once based upon literature? Some literature has derived from very mature themes, like Age of Conan where the topic of sexuality is present.
Games which are rated M in the west are not truly, M-rated games in the west. While the main issues of objectification have been discussed the other issue between the difference of artistic expression and freedom of speech, have been avoided. Where or what is the difference between actual, true "objectification" and "artwork i don't like because it offends my sensibilities in some way"?
This issue comes in particular with female character models in video-games. Political groups and alike argue that the use of a female character as alluring provides an negative impact upon woman as a whole. On the other-hand, there has been no proven data or statistics that visually rendered fictional non-existant females in video-games have indeed proven to be an actual toxicification to both the game and real-life communities. The same slippery-slope stand-points have been used towards the themes of violence in video-games. That playing games with violence in them, will somehow lead to a extravagant moral decay on society itself. What we have here upon the issue mostly, are reactions in response in regulation of power and control. Those who believe out of a moral obligation, to fit in with the current social status, or gender-driven pride that video-games are not allowed, and should not be allowed to express sexuality period.
But sexuality has been expressed, and has been for years. Movies actively express it with romp scenes between characters and relationships. The average romance book for females, written for women and even by women, express sexuality. Ironically by these stances, other groups and others are actively saying that females should not be able to express sexuality in video-games, and should be ashamed if doing so. Many of these vocal woman however, have had issues on a level of acceptance either of their own bodies or other complications,<marriages, boyfriends, interactions with men, etc> and therefore view any material that is sexual as a threat. Thus it is automatically "demeaning" and "objectification" . If a female was comfortable with herself, would she not care of a mere pixel had clothing on or not?
There is a erotic/sex-engine game now called Venus Rising who's creator is a female. Yet there are books like 50 Shades of Grey that are erotic yet created by another female. Are these women foul for creating the materials they have? Not at all. It is simply our unacceptance in realization that sexuality is very much apart of the human aspect. If sex or sexuality can be discussed in talk-shows, expressed in movies or in books, it is limiting to assume that it cannot be so in a video-game. By trailing under the shield of white-knighting sexuality in an attempt to "perserve and protect the dignity" of woman, ironically it is also telling them that they should be ashamed of or unable to play or express erotic-type characters in the game world of their choice.
But on average statistics have indicated that over 66% that watch erotic materials are female.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jincey-lumpkin/carlin-ross_b_1278032.html
How long shall there be denial that females are without sexuality? Shall we become like a middle-eastern country in gaming when it comes to the issue of clothing or the concept of sex with fictional characters?
1. Many non-christian cultures view sex as something private. There is a reason why nearly every culture in the world wears clothing. It's not because of "christian ethics on sexuality" it's a general human acknowledgement.
2. No one is arguing that there can't be places for sexuality to be expressed. The question is whether sexualized women and/or men rightly acknowledges sex. In reality, using "sex to sell" is just as offensive in a beer commercial as it is an mmo. If you are going to "reel guys in" by playing the sex card, that is simply sexualizing women, nothing more, nothing less.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
OK, this is a little late in the discussion, and I abhor the objectification bit? But let me say as a female mostly hetero type, the dudes are pretty hot too, even the wiry (and really, ESPECIALLY the wiry) rogue types.
In mammals, physical fitness is an indicator of health, and a lot of social mammals engage in mock or real combat in order to display for their mates -- usually the males but sometimes females too. Females also need to look healthy, sleek or fat depending on the species, good pelts, clear eyes, good skin, no nasty runny bits where there shouldn't be -- healthy, strong, solid, good smells, all that.
Game designers pick up from comic book superhero designers, who pick up from puppet designers and other exaggerated charicature designers of the 19th, 18th and go all the way back to Greece and the ancient world -- look at ancient pottery or tombs, for gods' sakes. Those figures were way disproportionate in some ways that make video game figures look modest, yo?
These memetics speak health and power and vitality to us, and they have very little to do with modern sex appeal. We certainly map that on them, but don't blame it entirely on modern boys and girls. We are digging into our ur-vocabulary here.
So when our host here, good Catholic boy if he doesn't mind me saying so, says "Throw a cassock over it!" he is repeating a message his spiritual predecessors have been preaching in vain for 1500 or so years. It hasn't worked so far for many of us, because regardless of the appeals to reason and civilization, the ur-vocabulary tends to appeal to our use of our time and pocketbooks.
I'm not saying it's right, but I am saying -- I doubt if humanity is changing soon.
Victor, either three weeks isn't enough, or you need to learn to breathe deeply, I am so sorry (says the 54 year old civic activist...;). I hope you weathered to storms well, my dear, of whatever sorts they were that you've been experiencing.
I don't care about sexual "stuff" in MMOs, wether its coming from the design or from the people playing it.
But funny enough, I NEVER play MMOs where female characters are forced to wear high heeled boots ^^