Well if you want to solo Alderaan I guess it's ok if there are like 3 people there. The fleet is a lobby, I was simply giving the other side of the story.
So you went from 'overall population' to 'specific zone population'?
Keep on moving that goal post.
Oh I guess that overall population has no effect on zone population. This is purely about statistics without any practical application for the player?
Overall population includes the zones and the fleet, my location is just as valid as the previous one, unless you were simply out to use the fleet numbers to spin your message.
Well if you want to solo Alderaan I guess it's ok if there are like 3 people there. The fleet is a lobby, I was simply giving the other side of the story.
So you went from 'overall population' to 'specific zone population'?
Keep on moving that goal post.
Oh I guess that overall population has no effect on zone population. This is purely about statistics without any practical application for the player?
Overall population includes the zones and the fleet, my location is just as valid as the previous one, unless you were simply out to use the fleet numbers to spin your message.
Dont mind him, he will link EA financial record which doesnt mention SWTORs population in any way.
Population is considerably down from F2P launch, id say its 1/3 of what it was at F2P launch, as everyone that actually plays the game knows.
What is worriying theres no "but but but its summer and vacations" excuse any more and EA has run boatload of promotions lately and major content patch landed recently. And theres no sign of any growth sadly. Maybe space WZ will bring in more people but its sub only till january....dont see it working all that well.
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population being solid (which is still going down as I do play the game on occasion myself and can see it, but as the servers are instanced you see no difference) does not mean the game is doing well. The people have to pay too. There being loads of population is great for playing the game with others, but is not great for the survivability of the game if people are not spending money on the game.
SWTOR is a great game but people do not want to keep paying for it.
If the game was not F2P, I would even subscribe to it every other month, but since it is F2P, there is no need, the percentage of people not paying would have increased, and datanious says he plays with people not paying "I play with players that are playing not paying". How is the game going to survive and be doing well when people are playing for free?
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
If you think EA is the kind of company to invest money out of its own pocket in a game without making any profit on it then you really don't know EA.
They don't give a damn and would have shut down SWTOR by now if it wasn't giving them profit. It is EA for God sake only thing they care about is 'profit'.So yeah it is quite possible that game is making EA enough profit to not be shut down.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
If you think EA is the kind of company to invest money out of its own pocket in a game without making any profit on it then you really don't know EA.
They don't give a damn and would have shut down SWTOR by now if it wasn't giving them profit. It is EA for God sake only thing they care about is 'profit'.So yeah it is quite possible that game is making EA enough profit to not be shut down.
As i said, only EAs accountants know, maybe they have license that they have to pay big penalties to Disney if they shut down earlier that what they signed for, maybe they want to wait for new movies, maybe they just written off lot of SWOTRs debts and now without those debts its making profit, maybe it really is making profit, maybe maybe maybe.
Originally posted by gamekid2k Anyone knows how many active players are currently playing SWToR? Did f2p caused a big increase?
It's doing extremely well with tons or people and regular updates. Don't mind the haters here and see it for yourself. I even created this thread to get this rid of some of the false presumptions of the game because i simply hate people who hate hard-working devs over lies.
Nothing to add. Some people just enjoy their hate (including but not only Swtor). Everyone can have negative opinion, no problem with that, but many have just that sick joy of chasing and spitting all over on games they actually do not play at all.
Negative opinion?
So when people with very facts blamed SWTORs engine for running crap back at open beta/launch they were called haters.
Game tanked and then even James Ohlen blamed huge part of failure on borked engine.
Just one example.
So fanboism is just as bad as hating, even worse, because hate, for whatever it is, points to problems and fanboism points to....nothing at all.
I have only curiosity, have you EVER played at all Swtor? If yes, how long out of nearly 2 years in total?
Btw, "fanboisim" is COMPLETELY UNDESTANDABLE, but hate SI NOT. I never see any problem fanboy prototecting what he/she loves, wondering why hater spend so much time with game (or anything else for that matter) that does not play?
No matter my questions above back to yours last statements. WHO and WHEN blamed and WHICH engine for WHAT?? Have been since day 1 for 7 to 8 months on daily basis (and aprox. 3 months before was even available in my country) AND ENGINE DID MARVELS, no matter how many players around I could play on my 3 years aprox old computer with close to zero lag and all settings on full.
Originally posted by gamekid2k Anyone knows how many active players are currently playing SWToR? Did f2p caused a big increase?
It's doing extremely well with tons or people and regular updates. Don't mind the haters here and see it for yourself. I even created this thread to get this rid of some of the false presumptions of the game because i simply hate people who hate hard-working devs over lies.
Nothing to add. Some people just enjoy their hate (including but not only Swtor). Everyone can have negative opinion, no problem with that, but many have just that sick joy of chasing and spitting all over on games they actually do not play at all.
Negative opinion?
So when people with very facts blamed SWTORs engine for running crap back at open beta/launch they were called haters.
Game tanked and then even James Ohlen blamed huge part of failure on borked engine.
Just one example.
So fanboism is just as bad as hating, even worse, because hate, for whatever it is, points to problems and fanboism points to....nothing at all.
I have only curiosity, have you EVER played at all Swtor? If yes, how long out of nearly 2 years in total?
Btw, "fanboisim" is COMPLETELY UNDESTANDABLE, but hate SI NOT. I never see any problem fanboy prototecting what he/she loves, wondering why hater spend so much time with game (or anything else for that matter) that does not play?
No matter my questions above back to yours last statements. WHO and WHEN blamed and WHICH engine for WHAT?? Have been since day 1 for 7 to 8 months on daily basis (and aprox. 3 months before was even available in my country) AND ENGINE DID MARVELS, no matter how many players around I could play on my 3 years aprox old computer with close to zero lag and all settings on full.
Just one example.
Uh-huh, both incarantions of Ilum say hi.
No OWPvP in SWTOR says hi.
Exceptionally low performance for graphic level says hi.
Ability dealy says hi
...
...
...
Slide show is not marvel.
So when James Ohlen says engine is borked you still insist it isnt, Thats whats wrong with fanbois.
Fanboism is not understandable in any concievable way.
Originally posted by gamekid2k Anyone knows how many active players are currently playing SWToR? Did f2p caused a big increase?
It's doing extremely well with tons or people and regular updates. Don't mind the haters here and see it for yourself. I even created this thread to get this rid of some of the false presumptions of the game because i simply hate people who hate hard-working devs over lies.
Nothing to add. Some people just enjoy their hate (including but not only Swtor). Everyone can have negative opinion, no problem with that, but many have just that sick joy of chasing and spitting all over on games they actually do not play at all.
Negative opinion?
So when people with very facts blamed SWTORs engine for running crap back at open beta/launch they were called haters.
Game tanked and then even James Ohlen blamed huge part of failure on borked engine.
Just one example.
So fanboism is just as bad as hating, even worse, because hate, for whatever it is, points to problems and fanboism points to....nothing at all.
Originally posted by gamekid2k Anyone knows how many active players are currently playing SWToR? Did f2p caused a big increase?
It's doing extremely well with tons or people and regular updates. Don't mind the haters here and see it for yourself. I even created this thread to get this rid of some of the false presumptions of the game because i simply hate people who hate hard-working devs over lies.
Nothing to add. Some people just enjoy their hate (including but not only Swtor). Everyone can have negative opinion, no problem with that, but many have just that sick joy of chasing and spitting all over on games they actually do not play at all.
Negative opinion?
So when people with very facts blamed SWTORs engine for running crap back at open beta/launch they were called haters.
Game tanked and then even James Ohlen blamed huge part of failure on borked engine.
Just one example.
So fanboism is just as bad as hating, even worse, because hate, for whatever it is, points to problems and fanboism points to....nothing at all.
I have only curiosity, have you EVER played at all Swtor? If yes, how long out of nearly 2 years in total?
Btw, "fanboisim" is COMPLETELY UNDESTANDABLE, but hate SI NOT. I never see any problem fanboy prototecting what he/she loves, wondering why hater spend so much time with game (or anything else for that matter) that does not play?
No matter my questions above back to yours last statements. WHO and WHEN blamed and WHICH engine for WHAT?? Have been since day 1 for 7 to 8 months on daily basis (and aprox. 3 months before was even available in my country) AND ENGINE DID MARVELS, no matter how many players around I could play on my 3 years aprox old computer with close to zero lag and all settings on full.
Just one example.
Uh-huh, both incarantions of Ilum say hi.
No OWPvP in SWTOR says hi.
Exceptionally low performance for graphic level says hi.
Ability dealy says hi
...
...
...
Slide show is not marvel.
So when James Ohlen says engine is borked you still insist it isnt, Thats whats wrong with fanbois.
Fanboism is not understandable in any concievable way.
Ilum failed because of engine issues and everyone admits that, everyone on the official forums also admit that the engine is sub-par.
Open-world PvP exists on tons of planets. This is an example of people not playing the game commenting on its features.
The game was released in 2011 and will obviously not support the wooden computers that WoW could support. My computer with a modest GTX560 runs the game with everything maxed out at 40-60FPS. That is a good enough performance seeing how good it looks at max settings and how old my GPU is.
NO ABILITY DELAY, it has been fixed months ago. I just posted a video here made by myself showing how there is no ability delay. Another prime example of people not playing the game commentating on it.
Fanboy-ism in better than hating. Fanboys comment on the game because they play it and they have first hand experience of current updates within the game. Fanboys also do it just for the sake of defending what they like.
Haters exist only to spread hate. They don't play it and have no idea what's happening in the game. They just keep their experience from a half-hour playthrough from 2 years ago and use it to keep spreading lies and hate about it while insulting the people, who just want to play the game, as well as the developers, who worked hard for it.
Originally posted by skyline385 Gotta love the people who ignore the part of the post where all their claims were proven false and uninformative and then go direct for insulting.
You dont even realize how many times people heard that exact line since launch.
on the other hand..NOBODY could have pleased all the customers at launch
not even , if God and the devil joined efforts, to do so
we were simply too diverse a playerbase..SWG/sandbox fans, ordinary SW fans in their first mmo
that would be like arranging a party for hells angels, and the local chess Club
and EAware pushed it even further , with the massive hype
they launched big, and they failed the same way
this wasnt the Ferrari, that people wanted..and the one, that they promised us
this was just a repainted toyota, and not even a good Toyota
Thats what we tried to tell them back before launch, that they are delusional, and that what they are making has a chance like snowball in hell to achieve what they themselves wanted to achieve.
They didnt listen to any of it, they just repeated how "epic" and "awesome" the game is. Over and over. And there sure wasnt short supply of people who bought the hype and called everyone else "hater". Blinders can only go so far. Probably those same people became most avid haters later lol
Its all water under teh bridge now though.
Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
Yea the model is very restricting, but they themselves have said that the model only acts as a demo and they want people to sub. It's really bad as a f2p no doubt in that. But yea, i always sub so it doesn't bother me.
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
Yea the model is very restricting, but they themselves have said that the model only acts as a demo and they want people to sub. It's really bad as a f2p no doubt in that. But yea, i always sub so it doesn't bother me.
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
You cannot get to level cap unless you pay so its not that much different than WoW free trial, a bit more extended but thats it.
Yea the model is very restricting, but they themselves have said that the model only acts as a demo and they want people to sub. It's really bad as a f2p no doubt in that. But yea, i always sub so it doesn't bother me.
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
The model is very restricting everyone admits that and even the devs said that the F2P only acts to get some subs. But whatever be the case, you can complete all the class stories and reach 50 (5 lvls from cap) without paying any money. And F2P means its free-to-play (to what extent it depends on the devs), it doesn't say complete-the-whole-game-free-to-play. Nonetheless, the model is very restricting.
You can see there each and every difference between F2P, Preferred and Sub players. So, how can you say they are hiding anything? They even link that page on their front page.
Originally posted by gamekid2k Anyone knows how many active players are currently playing SWToR? Did f2p caused a big increase?
It's doing extremely well with tons or people and regular updates. Don't mind the haters here and see it for yourself. I even created this thread to get this rid of some of the false presumptions of the game because i simply hate people who hate hard-working devs over lies.
Nothing to add. Some people just enjoy their hate (including but not only Swtor). Everyone can have negative opinion, no problem with that, but many have just that sick joy of chasing and spitting all over on games they actually do not play at all.
Negative opinion?
So when people with very facts blamed SWTORs engine for running crap back at open beta/launch they were called haters.
Game tanked and then even James Ohlen blamed huge part of failure on borked engine.
Just one example.
So fanboism is just as bad as hating, even worse, because hate, for whatever it is, points to problems and fanboism points to....nothing at all.
I have only curiosity, have you EVER played at all Swtor? If yes, how long out of nearly 2 years in total?
Btw, "fanboisim" is COMPLETELY UNDESTANDABLE, but hate SI NOT. I never see any problem fanboy prototecting what he/she loves, wondering why hater spend so much time with game (or anything else for that matter) that does not play?
No matter my questions above back to yours last statements. WHO and WHEN blamed and WHICH engine for WHAT?? Have been since day 1 for 7 to 8 months on daily basis (and aprox. 3 months before was even available in my country) AND ENGINE DID MARVELS, no matter how many players around I could play on my 3 years aprox old computer with close to zero lag and all settings on full.
Just one example.
Uh-huh, both incarantions of Ilum say hi.
No OWPvP in SWTOR says hi.
Exceptionally low performance for graphic level says hi.
Ability dealy says hi
...
...
...
Slide show is not marvel.
So when James Ohlen says engine is borked you still insist it isnt, Thats whats wrong with fanbois.
Fanboism is not understandable in any concievable way.
Everyone playing SWTOR and even on BW know the problems and limitations that they have with the Hero engine, It looks great, the animation are probably the best that you can find in a MMO these days, but the performance is just bad. however they have been working on the engine and we dont have the same problems that we saw at launch and at some point the performance will be good enough.
SWTOR have OWPVP in pretty much all the planets and zones after level 20, you even have achievements for killing players on Opvp so at least on the PvP servers you have Open PvP on the planets and daily zones all the time, but the system need better rewards and the faction Balance is still one of the main reason about why there is no RvR on SWTOR yet, but at some point it will come.
There is no ability delay on SWTOR, it was fixed long ago, you even can play with a ping of 200 or 300 without problems.
SWTOR is still a great example, how to totally ruin one of the best IPs you can ever get in one life.
Having the posibility, to make a 100% StarWars MMORPG is like a win in the lottery.
Their kids and grandkids could have had a safe future but they failed.
They've been greedy, got a half arsed engine that they nearly stole and the developers have not been able to solve fundamental problems in the softwaredesign, they've been barely able to fix that crap so it ran anyhow.
SWTOR is 90% marketing and 10% coding while the 10% coding is 9,9% using some level- or missioneditors ... not really "coding".
SWTOR could have been a great game, but when we've been in CB, we told them exacly, what we have today.
Bioware was not able to do it, the game is still shit.
The only feature thats really really cool and bound me for many months to the game, is the combatsystem and the PvP maps.
The Combat is big fun to me, i could control my Guardian like my own feet.
Its the combat, that will drive me back to SWTOR one day, im sure ^^
Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
No the saddest thing is watching people 2 years later STILL going on and on in multiple threads saying I told you so! I told you so!!
Bittereness mixed with disspointment.
Your forum profile says you are 33 years old. Do you honestly feel no shame in name-calling everyone on the forums and raging over and over in multiple threads over a damned video game? Why are you so bitter over a game? You didn't like it, fine. Let it go. Why all this hate for people who have done nothing to you?
2 years ago.....and still bitter enough to keep 3..4 threads going with over 100 posts in how long ?
I was dissapointed with the game and quit after 2 months. Now I look back at what I enjoyed about the game and watch waiting to see if it ever becomes something Id enjoy again. Your meathod of dealing with it doesnèt seem very.....healthy.
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
If you think EA is the kind of company to invest money out of its own pocket in a game without making any profit on it then you really don't know EA.
They don't give a damn and would have shut down SWTOR by now if it wasn't giving them profit. It is EA for God sake only thing they care about is 'profit'.So yeah it is quite possible that game is making EA enough profit to not be shut down.
As i said, only EAs accountants know, maybe they have license that they have to pay big penalties to Disney if they shut down earlier that what they signed for, maybe they want to wait for new movies, maybe they just written off lot of SWOTRs debts and now without those debts its making profit, maybe it really is making profit, maybe maybe maybe.
The (ex-)CFO did say late last year that at some stage SWTOR's has to make a profit. Two implications: if it didn't it would have to be shuttered and - up to that point in time - it hadn't made money.
This in no way invalidates what Doogiehowser says. EA will absolutely 100% have expected SWTOR to make money. To cover its running costs including the IP cost, the development cost and even a part of what it cost EA to acquire Bioware. EA didn't buy Bioware expecting to make a loss!
As didjerama suggests I also believe that the old costs have been "written off". The first key teat today is whether whether SWTOR is making more money than it costs to run.
And it probably is: as of August it had only lost 25% of its pre-f2p subscription base. So maybe it still has 200k subs. And to May it doubled its average revenue. So maybe the average revenue is worth 400k subs. Initially EA said they needed 500k to make a (day-to-day) profit but with the staff cuts etc. they must need less. So yeah I can see SWTOR generating profit and being described by EA as "doing OK".
Whether SWTOR is properly making a profit however .... much tougher question. To properly make a profit gross profit margins have to be approaching 70%. In simple terms for every $15 sub or $15 spent in the cash shop EA is looking to claim $10.50 as gross profit. (On which it will then pay tax etc.)
I suspect it isn't and that this is why EA have only said the game is doing OK. Making money, probably, but pulling down what's known as the ROI - EA return on investment. And as with any mmo at some point the game peaks and after that it gets harder and harder to attract new players / retain existing ones. And I don't think anyone will disagree that SWTOR has passed its peak - so OK is as good as its going to get.
The reason I haven't returned is because I bought the game at the inital launch. and now I still have to pay to unlock features that were included when I bought the box. Thats just plain stupid to me..
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Yea the model is very restricting, but they themselves have said that the model only acts as a demo and they want people to sub. It's really bad as a f2p no doubt in that. But yea, i always sub so it doesn't bother me.
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
You cannot get to level cap unless you pay so its not that much different than WoW free trial, a bit more extended but thats it.
Level Cap is at level 50 for the core game. The paid-for expansion increases the level cap to 55 (made explicitly clear when they were promoting the expansion), so if you don't have Rise of the Hutt Cartel (whether subscriber or not) you will level cap at 50. It was only 30-40 days ago that subscribers (who didn't buy the expansion) got it free and then they had to rush to catch up to all those who bought the expansion including several f2p and preferred status players.
As F2P you can easily get up to level cap. I've personally known 20+ people who hit level cap as f2p and only switched to Sub because it was easier to take part in end-game raiding and roll alts to experience different parts of the story. Two, f2p players can purchase the expansion, thereby gaining access to the increased level cap.
I've played the WoW free trial and there is no comparison. The WoW free trial is a trial version allowing you restricted gameplay till level 20. The SWTOR f2p/preferred is basically restricted access to all game content. As f2p/preferred you end up spending a lot more in-game currency to access the same level of gameplay subscribers get, you level slower and you have the trade restrictions. That's it.
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Some people think trading in the shotgun for the BFG2000 makes the game easier. It just allows you to enter a higher difficulty level.
Comments
Oh I guess that overall population has no effect on zone population. This is purely about statistics without any practical application for the player?
Overall population includes the zones and the fleet, my location is just as valid as the previous one, unless you were simply out to use the fleet numbers to spin your message.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Dont mind him, he will link EA financial record which doesnt mention SWTORs population in any way.
Population is considerably down from F2P launch, id say its 1/3 of what it was at F2P launch, as everyone that actually plays the game knows.
What is worriying theres no "but but but its summer and vacations" excuse any more and EA has run boatload of promotions lately and major content patch landed recently. And theres no sign of any growth sadly. Maybe space WZ will bring in more people but its sub only till january....dont see it working all that well.
Here is something to think about.
Everyone who is PLAYING THE GAME is agreeing that the population is solid and that the game is doing well.
People who are not at all playing and probably haven't even touched it for over a year are the only ones going on and about how big of a failure the game is. I hope any sensible guy reading this can understand what's going over here.
Also, remember how some of them are also lying about playing and still going on about it's failure and the population, one of whom i proved wrong with my screenshot.
Population being solid (which is still going down as I do play the game on occasion myself and can see it, but as the servers are instanced you see no difference) does not mean the game is doing well. The people have to pay too. There being loads of population is great for playing the game with others, but is not great for the survivability of the game if people are not spending money on the game.
SWTOR is a great game but people do not want to keep paying for it.
"The message from players exiting the game is clear, 40% say they were turned off by the monthly subscription and many indicate they would come back if we offered a free-to-play model," he told analysts, according to a transcript of the conference call provided by the Seeking Alpha financial news site.
If the game was not F2P, I would even subscribe to it every other month, but since it is F2P, there is no need, the percentage of people not paying would have increased, and datanious says he plays with people not paying "I play with players that are playing not paying". How is the game going to survive and be doing well when people are playing for free?
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Population also "stabilized" as of september/october 2012 (before F2P) by EAs words.
It didnt mean it was doing well. How well its doing only EAs accountants know, but usually silence on the matter means.....bad things.
There was never word "profit" associated with "SWTOR" by EA since launch.
If you think EA is the kind of company to invest money out of its own pocket in a game without making any profit on it then you really don't know EA.
They don't give a damn and would have shut down SWTOR by now if it wasn't giving them profit. It is EA for God sake only thing they care about is 'profit'.So yeah it is quite possible that game is making EA enough profit to not be shut down.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
As i said, only EAs accountants know, maybe they have license that they have to pay big penalties to Disney if they shut down earlier that what they signed for, maybe they want to wait for new movies, maybe they just written off lot of SWOTRs debts and now without those debts its making profit, maybe it really is making profit, maybe maybe maybe.
I have only curiosity, have you EVER played at all Swtor? If yes, how long out of nearly 2 years in total?
Btw, "fanboisim" is COMPLETELY UNDESTANDABLE, but hate SI NOT. I never see any problem fanboy prototecting what he/she loves, wondering why hater spend so much time with game (or anything else for that matter) that does not play?
No matter my questions above back to yours last statements. WHO and WHEN blamed and WHICH engine for WHAT?? Have been since day 1 for 7 to 8 months on daily basis (and aprox. 3 months before was even available in my country) AND ENGINE DID MARVELS, no matter how many players around I could play on my 3 years aprox old computer with close to zero lag and all settings on full.
Just one example.
Uh-huh, both incarantions of Ilum say hi.
No OWPvP in SWTOR says hi.
Exceptionally low performance for graphic level says hi.
Ability dealy says hi
...
...
...
Slide show is not marvel.
So when James Ohlen says engine is borked you still insist it isnt, Thats whats wrong with fanbois.
Fanboism is not understandable in any concievable way.
heh great minds think alike
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Ilum failed because of engine issues and everyone admits that, everyone on the official forums also admit that the engine is sub-par.
Open-world PvP exists on tons of planets. This is an example of people not playing the game commenting on its features.
The game was released in 2011 and will obviously not support the wooden computers that WoW could support. My computer with a modest GTX560 runs the game with everything maxed out at 40-60FPS. That is a good enough performance seeing how good it looks at max settings and how old my GPU is.
NO ABILITY DELAY, it has been fixed months ago. I just posted a video here made by myself showing how there is no ability delay. Another prime example of people not playing the game commentating on it.
Fanboy-ism in better than hating. Fanboys comment on the game because they play it and they have first hand experience of current updates within the game. Fanboys also do it just for the sake of defending what they like.
Haters exist only to spread hate. They don't play it and have no idea what's happening in the game. They just keep their experience from a half-hour playthrough from 2 years ago and use it to keep spreading lies and hate about it while insulting the people, who just want to play the game, as well as the developers, who worked hard for it.
You dont even realize how many times people heard that exact line since launch.
on the other hand..NOBODY could have pleased all the customers at launch
not even , if God and the devil joined efforts, to do so
we were simply too diverse a playerbase..SWG/sandbox fans, ordinary SW fans in their first mmo
that would be like arranging a party for hells angels, and the local chess Club
and EAware pushed it even further , with the massive hype
they launched big, and they failed the same way
this wasnt the Ferrari, that people wanted..and the one, that they promised us
this was just a repainted toyota, and not even a good Toyota
Thats what we tried to tell them back before launch, that they are delusional, and that what they are making has a chance like snowball in hell to achieve what they themselves wanted to achieve.
They didnt listen to any of it, they just repeated how "epic" and "awesome" the game is. Over and over. And there sure wasnt short supply of people who bought the hype and called everyone else "hater". Blinders can only go so far. Probably those same people became most avid haters later lol
Its all water under teh bridge now though.
Saddest thing is there are still people out there (here) blaming players and community.
No the saddest thing is watching people 2 years later STILL going on and on in multiple threads saying I told you so! I told you so!!
Then they really ought to be calling it a Demo, or Limited Free Access.
Putting "Play For Free" on their website and advertising, and then putting this line at the bottom of the sign-up page, in small text that practically blends into the background...
*SWTOR's Free-to-Play option contains some gameplay restrictions that limit access to certain features and content. For more information on these limitations please visit: www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features.
Seems an awful lot like they're trying to hide the fact that they're severely limiting you as a Free player, while hitting you with a wall of Hype Hype Hype trying to get you to subscribe.
They're essentially advertising it as a F2P MMO, but they really want you to pay a sub. That seems inherently dishonest to me. They're trying to ride the "F2P" wave, promoting their game as something they clearly don't want it to be, purely to get more warm bodies into the game.
It's why, upon reviewing the game to possibly check it out, I opted to skip on it. If they'd market it honestly, by describing it as a "Subscription Based MMO with a Feature Limited, Time Unlimited Free Trial" (basically what it is), allowing me to check it out as long as I want, I'd have felt better about it. But they don't.
Now, other developers may do it better, others may do it worse. We can talk about those games in their forums. Here, I'm talking about SWTOR's setup on its own merits.
You cannot get to level cap unless you pay so its not that much different than WoW free trial, a bit more extended but thats it.
The model is very restricting everyone admits that and even the devs said that the F2P only acts to get some subs. But whatever be the case, you can complete all the class stories and reach 50 (5 lvls from cap) without paying any money. And F2P means its free-to-play (to what extent it depends on the devs), it doesn't say complete-the-whole-game-free-to-play. Nonetheless, the model is very restricting.
And about hiding, the page you linked yourself
www.StarWarsTheOldRepublic.com/FREE/features
You can see there each and every difference between F2P, Preferred and Sub players. So, how can you say they are hiding anything? They even link that page on their front page.
Everyone playing SWTOR and even on BW know the problems and limitations that they have with the Hero engine, It looks great, the animation are probably the best that you can find in a MMO these days, but the performance is just bad. however they have been working on the engine and we dont have the same problems that we saw at launch and at some point the performance will be good enough.
SWTOR have OWPVP in pretty much all the planets and zones after level 20, you even have achievements for killing players on Opvp so at least on the PvP servers you have Open PvP on the planets and daily zones all the time, but the system need better rewards and the faction Balance is still one of the main reason about why there is no RvR on SWTOR yet, but at some point it will come.
There is no ability delay on SWTOR, it was fixed long ago, you even can play with a ping of 200 or 300 without problems.
SWTOR is still a great example, how to totally ruin one of the best IPs you can ever get in one life.
Having the posibility, to make a 100% StarWars MMORPG is like a win in the lottery.
Their kids and grandkids could have had a safe future but they failed.
They've been greedy, got a half arsed engine that they nearly stole and the developers have not been able to solve fundamental problems in the softwaredesign, they've been barely able to fix that crap so it ran anyhow.
SWTOR is 90% marketing and 10% coding while the 10% coding is 9,9% using some level- or missioneditors ... not really "coding".
SWTOR could have been a great game, but when we've been in CB, we told them exacly, what we have today.
Bioware was not able to do it, the game is still shit.
The only feature thats really really cool and bound me for many months to the game, is the combatsystem and the PvP maps.
The Combat is big fun to me, i could control my Guardian like my own feet.
Its the combat, that will drive me back to SWTOR one day, im sure ^^
2 years ago.....and still bitter enough to keep 3..4 threads going with over 100 posts in how long ?
I was dissapointed with the game and quit after 2 months. Now I look back at what I enjoyed about the game and watch waiting to see if it ever becomes something Id enjoy again. Your meathod of dealing with it doesnèt seem very.....healthy.
The (ex-)CFO did say late last year that at some stage SWTOR's has to make a profit. Two implications: if it didn't it would have to be shuttered and - up to that point in time - it hadn't made money.
This in no way invalidates what Doogiehowser says. EA will absolutely 100% have expected SWTOR to make money. To cover its running costs including the IP cost, the development cost and even a part of what it cost EA to acquire Bioware. EA didn't buy Bioware expecting to make a loss!
As didjerama suggests I also believe that the old costs have been "written off". The first key teat today is whether whether SWTOR is making more money than it costs to run.
And it probably is: as of August it had only lost 25% of its pre-f2p subscription base. So maybe it still has 200k subs. And to May it doubled its average revenue. So maybe the average revenue is worth 400k subs. Initially EA said they needed 500k to make a (day-to-day) profit but with the staff cuts etc. they must need less. So yeah I can see SWTOR generating profit and being described by EA as "doing OK".
Whether SWTOR is properly making a profit however .... much tougher question. To properly make a profit gross profit margins have to be approaching 70%. In simple terms for every $15 sub or $15 spent in the cash shop EA is looking to claim $10.50 as gross profit. (On which it will then pay tax etc.)
I suspect it isn't and that this is why EA have only said the game is doing OK. Making money, probably, but pulling down what's known as the ROI - EA return on investment. And as with any mmo at some point the game peaks and after that it gets harder and harder to attract new players / retain existing ones. And I don't think anyone will disagree that SWTOR has passed its peak - so OK is as good as its going to get.
I supose it does alright.
The reason I haven't returned is because I bought the game at the inital launch. and now I still have to pay to unlock features that were included when I bought the box. Thats just plain stupid to me..
"You resist. You cling to your life as if it actually matters. You will learn."
Level Cap is at level 50 for the core game. The paid-for expansion increases the level cap to 55 (made explicitly clear when they were promoting the expansion), so if you don't have Rise of the Hutt Cartel (whether subscriber or not) you will level cap at 50. It was only 30-40 days ago that subscribers (who didn't buy the expansion) got it free and then they had to rush to catch up to all those who bought the expansion including several f2p and preferred status players.
As F2P you can easily get up to level cap. I've personally known 20+ people who hit level cap as f2p and only switched to Sub because it was easier to take part in end-game raiding and roll alts to experience different parts of the story. Two, f2p players can purchase the expansion, thereby gaining access to the increased level cap.
I've played the WoW free trial and there is no comparison. The WoW free trial is a trial version allowing you restricted gameplay till level 20. The SWTOR f2p/preferred is basically restricted access to all game content. As f2p/preferred you end up spending a lot more in-game currency to access the same level of gameplay subscribers get, you level slower and you have the trade restrictions. That's it.
*********************
Some people think trading in the shotgun for the BFG2000 makes the game easier. It just allows you to enter a higher difficulty level.