1st one - We dont know enough info on the game class wise to make a decision and Devs do so that may be fair enough although i would like race to matter msyelf
2nd one - 46% said no and 53% is basicly yes in some way or form, 1% doesnt have stong option.
Actually it isn't quite so clear as you think...
46% - No.
24% - Maybe if it fits well with Lore.
18% - not sure, should be evaluated on case by case basis
9% - Yes
2 % I don't care.
So the clearest result is NO (46%) , followed by Maybe (42%) and Yes with 9%. So if only 5% of the Maybe folks don't like the Lore or case by case reason to add it then NO wins,.
What they are doing is what 51% asked them to do, cant fault them for that one.
And there is a chance that if 5% of the maybe dont like it, that 5% of the no people will like it. A lot of those no votes were knee jerk reactions to people that belong int he maybe class.
I think you could be confused about the definition of Maybe....
42% of your assumed YES votes rely on "if"... If the voter thinks it fits in the Lore, if a specific use case is evaluated favorably.
So you have 46% players who chose a definitive NO answer vs 9% definitive "YES" with the undecided 42% in the middle
Given the very small "definitely YES" responses it would be wildly speculative to assume all the undecideds are really Yes in disguise.
But they arent no. And if you watched the video, they use examples that fit those maybe categories. And the reality is a lot of those nos are really maybes in disguise. i am one of them. I pictured an out of place class like a Lara Croft wannabe. But i am completely fine with a tinker class that uses clockwork guns because it makes sense for the game.
First off- Don't get me wrong. I always like it when devs try to get the community involved. I am also following EQN with great interest. But have you seen the last 2 Round tables?
When answering "Should all races have access to play all classes?", they basically justify why they feel it's necessary to go against the plurality of 40% by not restricting players at all. (I personally would have liked to see some restriction as I never like when everyone can do everything)
Then, on the question "How do you feel about modern concepts like guns and Ninjas in EverQuest Next?", although 46% voted that this stuff has "no place in a fantasy environment like Norrath", SOE again says they'd rather allow modern concepts as long as it it fits with lore.
The rest of other roundtable videos basically read as "Yeah, the fans were in line with what we were going to do already."
Now again, I always appreciate reaching out the community in some manner. But what is the purpose of this round table business if SOE is going to do what they were planning on doing anyway? Is it nothing more than a marketing ploy to engage the community a little and get their opinions?
umm....maybe I'm confused - but where was the official announcement made that says 'all races will be able to play all classes'?
Isn't it still undecided?
Same for the second question - where did they state that they will include guns and ninjas?
As far as I am aware, these are still to be set in stone.
I would like to know where I can read the update if some official announcement has been made.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Great, finally someone who gets it.
Yes, but what's the point of player feedback if they don't listen to it? That's what the OP is asking.
To gather information, to get some kind of indication of how a portion of players think and reason regarding many a things. I'm assuming they're listening since they made a 3-4 minutes long video explaining why they had to go the other route. The decision is still theirs to make.
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If you ever thought you were collectively getting to make important decisions on a multi-million dollar project, no matter the results. My hats off to you all, sincerely.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10 A Round Table is only round if you're sitting at it.
hahaha! wat?!
The concept of the "Round Table" is the knights can sit at it with the King, as equals. Used in reference to game design, it would mean some of the players (or beta testers) sit at the table with the devs and have equal input.
But, if only devs are sitting at the Round Table, and gamers are excluded, then it's not really a "Round Table".
Think of it as all the devs are knights sitting at the table filling all but one chair and the people posting in the "roundtable" forums make up the last chair. If you want the reverse then you are crazy.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Agreed. So then why bother with polling? Why not just release info as updates?
To me it's clear- It's because they were never really polling us. They're advertising to us. They're advertising to us and they're benefiting from our thoughts. All under the guise of being a considerate company that's "listening to you !"
I must say I'm not a fan of this charade. I'd much rather they be upfront about things and say what their intentions are from the get go.
Originally posted by Saryk I don’t understand SOE's logic behind the round table. As a developer, it is better to tell people what the software does than ask them what they want the software to do! People accept facts that something will do X, Y and Z. When you ask people their opinion into the development of anything and go against their opinion, they WILL have a negative opinion on said item. Not saying that the project will fail, but it does leave a bad taste.
This.
A discussion on what the game is going to have is far better than asking people what they want. SOE is trying to create this illusion that your opinion matters. It really doesn't. I am OK with knowing that my opinion doesn't matter. After all I have nothing to lose if this game sucks. I am just a consumer, not an investor or a developer. For me this is just a game and not some life altering decision. Isn't it going to be F2P anyways? So I won't have to invest anything but some time to see if I enjoy it.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Agreed. So then why bother with polling? Why not just release info as updates?
To me it's clear- It's because they were never really polling us. They're advertising to us. They're advertising to us and they're benefiting from our thoughts. All under the guise of being a considerate company that's "listening to you !"
I must say I'm not a fan of this charade. I'd much rather they be upfront about things and say what their intentions are from the get go.
I think its just to get a general feel for opinions and to get some ideas from the feedback forums. If the results of the race restrictions had been more along the lines of 95% in favour and only 5% against, then the response probably would have been very different. But since it was closer to 50/50 they stuck with their own agenda / ideals, which is fair enough.
Its a feedback avenue, and while feedback is important, its not the only consideration when making a product. General cohesiveness needs to come into it too. Take my job for example, I prepare environmental reports. What the client wants is important, but I cant go outside the boundary of preparing a cohesive report. It needs to meet the requirements of the government regulatory authority and also be scientifically defensible.
While the player desires are important to them, they still need to make a cohesive game from the pile of ideas that they are recieving, and will ultimately need to make an executive decision about what works and what doesnt. It still doesnt hurt to get that feedback though and get a general feel of what is appreciated and what isnt. If there is a massive discrepency between what the potential playerbase wants and what they were thinking of, they will probably change it, but in cases like we have seen where its evenly split, they will stick to their guns.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Agreed. So then why bother with polling? Why not just release info as updates?
To me it's clear- It's because they were never really polling us. They're advertising to us. They're advertising to us and they're benefiting from our thoughts. All under the guise of being a considerate company that's "listening to you !"
I must say I'm not a fan of this charade. I'd much rather they be upfront about things and say what their intentions are from the get go.
I think its just to get a general feel for opinions and to get some ideas from the feedback forums. If the results of the race restrictions had been more along the lines of 95% in favour and only 5% against, then the response probably would have been very different. But since it was closer to 50/50 they stuck with their own agenda / ideals, which is fair enough.
Its a feedback avenue, and while feedback is important, its not the only consideration when making a product. General cohesiveness needs to come into it too. Take my job for example, I prepare environmental reports. What the client wants is important, but I cant go outside the boundary of preparing a cohesive report. It needs to meet the requirements of the government regulatory authority and also be scientifically defensible.
While the player desires are important to them, they still need to make a cohesive game from the pile of ideas that they are recieving, and will ultimately need to make an executive decision about what works and what doesnt. It still doesnt hurt to get that feedback though and get a general feel of what is appreciated and what isnt. If there is a massive discrepency between what the potential playerbase wants and what they were thinking of, they will probably change it, but in cases like we have seen where its evenly split, they will stick to their guns.
This is my thoughts exactly. They aren't looking for a simple majority but instead more like an overwhelming response before they concider changing course.
IMO the round table is a PR joke and SOE are using this as a front and as a company they are full of BS and are conservative with the truth at the best of time and only really get serious when people playing their games vote with their wallets and stop paying to play their games, such as the saga with a certain German media company a few months back so if you are expecting SOE to be honest then this is a company which will disappoint you all.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Just like WoW was only feedback and not majority trends?
Companies will go with majority trends if it means better sales.
I much rather companies have their vision of their game, design it, let players test it THEN provide feedback. If a company asks players how they want the game be designed, to me that shows that you have no ideal how you want your game designed. Other MMOs have a very concrete ideal of how they want they game designed, this I see lacking in EQN and makes me weary of EQN.
And what about all the people that don't visit forums that will play? People who visit the forums are the minority, typically the people I play with in MMOs BY FAR don't visit official forums unless doing research like a class build or something.
Honestly, I think this roundtable is nothing more than a PR stunt to get people hyped about EQN and help the hype train.
IMO the round table is a PR joke and SOE are using this as a front and as a company they are full of BS and are conservative with the truth at the best of time and only really get serious when people playing their games vote with their wallets and stop paying to play their games, such as the saga with a certain German media company a few months back so if you are expecting SOE to be honest then this is a company which will disappoint you all.
While they have done some dodgy deals in the past. SoE have always been very receptive to player feedback in both EQ and EQ2. Many player ideas were adopted in expansion betas due to feedback.
Also the PSS1 drama was blown way out of proportion. Aside from a new billing and advertising source, it had no real impact on euro players.
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
While I understand your stance on this and whole-heartededly agree that the developers have inside information and complete knowledge of the game so they are infinitely more qualified than the players at making the serious design decisions, but, why have the damn polls to begin with then? Seriously, what good are they other than hype and creating the illusion of control to the many people who frequent their forums. The polls have no bearing on what is really going into the game.
A new forum poll goes up, cast your vote, post a message, if your idea is good enough they may discuss it in a video, how is this not a song and dance show only used for creating hype?
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
While I understand your stance on this and whole-heartededly agree that the developers have inside information and complete knowledge of the game so they are infinitely more qualified than the players at making the serious design decisions, but, why have the damn polls to begin with then? Seriously, what good are they other than hype and creating the illusion of control to the many people who frequent their forums. The polls have no bearing on what is really going into the game.
A new forum poll goes up, cast your vote, post a message, if your idea is good enough they may discuss it in a video, how is this not a song and dance show only used for creating hype?
If you are asking if SOE wants to drum up interest for their game, I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes. And I really don't see how that is bad.
And I am sure that they know that the round tables will at least keep people's minds on their game. However, I really don't see how it's some kind of duplicitous farce that just exists to drum up hype.
After all, anyone posting on the round table already knows about the game, is interested, and will probably wind up buying it. So what is the use is "advertising" to people who are already sold basically?
It's not like they are paying for ad banners about EQN roundtable to try to hype up their game.
Also, we all know that focus group are often used to get feedback, and that's basically what the round table is...there is its purpose for you. And the polls are there just to get a barometer reading about how people feel...that's it.
Originally posted by Naqaj The round table is a tool to get player feedback. It's not a polling system to enable game design by majority vote, and damn am I glad it isn't.
Great, finally someone who gets it.
Yes, but what's the point of player feedback if they don't listen to it? That's what the OP is asking.
Who is to say they aren't listening? On the surface they are going with guns and ninjas despite the poll results. Now instead of rocket launchers and sub machine guns wielded by metallic clad space ninjas (warframe) they may stick with blunderbuss and flint pistols and keep them out of the hands of the shadow assassins. A little extreme but you can see my point. Maybe the polls help to influence and steer directional choices the dev team is batting around with each other, this doesn't mean that the poll results determine the decision. I also agree it is for PR, but that doesn't mean it can't be useful to the developers. I respect teams that listen to the community, not teams that let the community make the game.
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
While I understand your stance on this and whole-heartededly agree that the developers have inside information and complete knowledge of the game so they are infinitely more qualified than the players at making the serious design decisions, but, why have the damn polls to begin with then? Seriously, what good are they other than hype and creating the illusion of control to the many people who frequent their forums. The polls have no bearing on what is really going into the game.
A new forum poll goes up, cast your vote, post a message, if your idea is good enough they may discuss it in a video, how is this not a song and dance show only used for creating hype?
If you are asking if SOE wants to drum up interest for their game, I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes. And I really don't see how that is bad.
And I am sure that they know that the round tables will at least keep people's minds on their game. However, I really don't see how it's some kind of duplicitous farce that just exists to drum up hype.
After all, anyone posting on the round table already knows about the game, is interested, and will probably wind up buying it. So what is the use is "advertising" to people who are already sold basically?
It's not like they are paying for ad banners about EQN roundtable to try to hype up their game.
Also, we all know that focus group are often used to get feedback, and that's basically what the round table is...there is its purpose for you. And the polls are there just to get a barometer reading about how people feel...that's it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm eagerly awaiting EQNext and have been for many years. I'm a big EQ fan. However, I also fully understand that the polls listed are a simple way to get players to come to terms with the final product and to assist with hype.
The point of the round table is to make you feel involved, like you're part of the development process. SOE has rehashed it over and over how they want this to be "YOUR GAME" and that they want to build a game based on YOUR LIKES. Unfortunately early on we can already see the round table is nothing but a place for them to string you along. They likely already got their minds made up about how exactly they want to create the game. They ask these questions, making us feel like we're a part of something special when we are not.
Honestly anybody who's played Planetside 2 should know that players have very little say with regards to the development of the games. SOE first introduced the roadmap idea in Planetside 2, it was met with great applause. But as it went along, us players saw how what we voted or said really didn't matter. People wanted the new continent to be released sooner than later, but SOE was dead set on doing things their way, continuing with the whole push for major league gaming ignoring a lot of existing player's concerns.
The round table is simply something that a SOE marketing guru thought up, it probably started as a good idea, but then the suits (managers, bosses, chief officers) came in and used it as a tool to fool players into thinking they're actually participating in the development of these games.
Originally posted by Wiha Their round table seems to be purely cosmetic. Most likely created as a PR tool.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
While I understand your stance on this and whole-heartededly agree that the developers have inside information and complete knowledge of the game so they are infinitely more qualified than the players at making the serious design decisions, but, why have the damn polls to begin with then? Seriously, what good are they other than hype and creating the illusion of control to the many people who frequent their forums. The polls have no bearing on what is really going into the game.
A new forum poll goes up, cast your vote, post a message, if your idea is good enough they may discuss it in a video, how is this not a song and dance show only used for creating hype?
At this point, the game design decisions and plans have all been made, or the game would not be where it is, or funded to go forward.
So, what is SOE going to change, based on player feedback/input from the round tables at this point?
Nothing, or nothing of any significance.
So who cares if the round tables are done at all?
Only SOE does, so they can use them for their PR/marketing machine in drumming up the hype.
It's so they can SAY that they are letting players help make the game.
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
There is little point, although it does create the illusion of caring what potential customers think.
Those that have all their responses in the majority feel as though this game is "for them!".
Those that don't are told to re-evaluate their ideas.
Take the latest all races can be any class poll. Clearly SOE lost. It was probably unexpected though, then SOE had to fumble a bit to get a good response to justify going against the poll.
I would avoid company specific websites since they are loaded with shills. Stick to 3rd party sites like this one. At least shilling is against laws in the US - not sure about Europe. It's easier to hide shilling on an official site than a 3rd party site. [was an article about this on MMORPG.COM months ago]. resource to shill law = http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=16:1.0.1.2.22.0.5.6&idno=16 (some stuff added over past year to reflect online endorsement of a product from those affiliated with or representing a company, anonymously via forums)
Probably just to get an idea as to where the player base stands.
If it was overwhelming "one way or another" they probably would have capitulated to the players. Since its' not overwhelming they probably see it as a chance for them to branch out without.
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Comments
But they arent no. And if you watched the video, they use examples that fit those maybe categories. And the reality is a lot of those nos are really maybes in disguise. i am one of them. I pictured an out of place class like a Lara Croft wannabe. But i am completely fine with a tinker class that uses clockwork guns because it makes sense for the game.
umm....maybe I'm confused - but where was the official announcement made that says 'all races will be able to play all classes'?
Isn't it still undecided?
Same for the second question - where did they state that they will include guns and ninjas?
As far as I am aware, these are still to be set in stone.
I would like to know where I can read the update if some official announcement has been made.
To gather information, to get some kind of indication of how a portion of players think and reason regarding many a things. I'm assuming they're listening since they made a 3-4 minutes long video explaining why they had to go the other route. The decision is still theirs to make.
[mod edit]
If you ever thought you were collectively getting to make important decisions on a multi-million dollar project, no matter the results. My hats off to you all, sincerely.
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Think of it as all the devs are knights sitting at the table filling all but one chair and the people posting in the "roundtable" forums make up the last chair. If you want the reverse then you are crazy.
Agreed. So then why bother with polling? Why not just release info as updates?
To me it's clear- It's because they were never really polling us. They're advertising to us. They're advertising to us and they're benefiting from our thoughts. All under the guise of being a considerate company that's "listening to you !"
I must say I'm not a fan of this charade. I'd much rather they be upfront about things and say what their intentions are from the get go.
This.
A discussion on what the game is going to have is far better than asking people what they want. SOE is trying to create this illusion that your opinion matters. It really doesn't. I am OK with knowing that my opinion doesn't matter. After all I have nothing to lose if this game sucks. I am just a consumer, not an investor or a developer. For me this is just a game and not some life altering decision. Isn't it going to be F2P anyways? So I won't have to invest anything but some time to see if I enjoy it.
There is no official announcement about the class/race situation.
However there are very clear statements made that they want all races to have access to all classes.
It was made in the round table discussion and mentioned briefly in several other interviews.
They have also indicated a desire that players are never locked out of a class, but this position was vague and in a conversation about faction.
I think its just to get a general feel for opinions and to get some ideas from the feedback forums. If the results of the race restrictions had been more along the lines of 95% in favour and only 5% against, then the response probably would have been very different. But since it was closer to 50/50 they stuck with their own agenda / ideals, which is fair enough.
Its a feedback avenue, and while feedback is important, its not the only consideration when making a product. General cohesiveness needs to come into it too. Take my job for example, I prepare environmental reports. What the client wants is important, but I cant go outside the boundary of preparing a cohesive report. It needs to meet the requirements of the government regulatory authority and also be scientifically defensible.
While the player desires are important to them, they still need to make a cohesive game from the pile of ideas that they are recieving, and will ultimately need to make an executive decision about what works and what doesnt. It still doesnt hurt to get that feedback though and get a general feel of what is appreciated and what isnt. If there is a massive discrepency between what the potential playerbase wants and what they were thinking of, they will probably change it, but in cases like we have seen where its evenly split, they will stick to their guns.
This is my thoughts exactly. They aren't looking for a simple majority but instead more like an overwhelming response before they concider changing course.
IMO the round table is a PR joke and SOE are using this as a front and as a company they are full of BS and are conservative with the truth at the best of time and only really get serious when people playing their games vote with their wallets and stop paying to play their games, such as the saga with a certain German media company a few months back so if you are expecting SOE to be honest then this is a company which will disappoint you all.
Asbo
Just like WoW was only feedback and not majority trends?
Companies will go with majority trends if it means better sales.
I much rather companies have their vision of their game, design it, let players test it THEN provide feedback. If a company asks players how they want the game be designed, to me that shows that you have no ideal how you want your game designed. Other MMOs have a very concrete ideal of how they want they game designed, this I see lacking in EQN and makes me weary of EQN.
And what about all the people that don't visit forums that will play? People who visit the forums are the minority, typically the people I play with in MMOs BY FAR don't visit official forums unless doing research like a class build or something.
Honestly, I think this roundtable is nothing more than a PR stunt to get people hyped about EQN and help the hype train.
While they have done some dodgy deals in the past. SoE have always been very receptive to player feedback in both EQ and EQ2. Many player ideas were adopted in expansion betas due to feedback.
Also the PSS1 drama was blown way out of proportion. Aside from a new billing and advertising source, it had no real impact on euro players.
That is exactly what it is.. a PR ploy to give the illusion that players have a voice.. They ONLY recognize that voice IF it something they planned on doing anyways.. It would be as if I'm asking my family what they want for dinner.. I already planned on grillin, and hopefully someone in the family mentions it, so I can give THEM credit for their voice showing I "LISTENED" to them.. When in fact I already had the grill turned on.. LOL
Why must everything be a conspiracy?
Has no one heard of a focus group before?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focus_group
They are just trying to get feedback about upcoming decisions. This feedback can help them see their decisions from a different perspective and either validate what they have done, or make them doubt their current stance and change their mind.
The round table is not, and never was meant to be, a democracy. Even if 90% of users vote no for feature x, that does not mean feature x will not be implemented.
These users are making their decisions based on gut feelings and past experience with NO REAL KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THE GAME. The devs have complete knowledge of the game and thus they are way more qualified to make decisions about it than users.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
While I understand your stance on this and whole-heartededly agree that the developers have inside information and complete knowledge of the game so they are infinitely more qualified than the players at making the serious design decisions, but, why have the damn polls to begin with then? Seriously, what good are they other than hype and creating the illusion of control to the many people who frequent their forums. The polls have no bearing on what is really going into the game.
A new forum poll goes up, cast your vote, post a message, if your idea is good enough they may discuss it in a video, how is this not a song and dance show only used for creating hype?
If you are asking if SOE wants to drum up interest for their game, I'm pretty sure the answer to that is yes. And I really don't see how that is bad.
And I am sure that they know that the round tables will at least keep people's minds on their game. However, I really don't see how it's some kind of duplicitous farce that just exists to drum up hype.
After all, anyone posting on the round table already knows about the game, is interested, and will probably wind up buying it. So what is the use is "advertising" to people who are already sold basically?
It's not like they are paying for ad banners about EQN roundtable to try to hype up their game.
Also, we all know that focus group are often used to get feedback, and that's basically what the round table is...there is its purpose for you. And the polls are there just to get a barometer reading about how people feel...that's it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Who is to say they aren't listening? On the surface they are going with guns and ninjas despite the poll results. Now instead of rocket launchers and sub machine guns wielded by metallic clad space ninjas (warframe) they may stick with blunderbuss and flint pistols and keep them out of the hands of the shadow assassins. A little extreme but you can see my point. Maybe the polls help to influence and steer directional choices the dev team is batting around with each other, this doesn't mean that the poll results determine the decision. I also agree it is for PR, but that doesn't mean it can't be useful to the developers. I respect teams that listen to the community, not teams that let the community make the game.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Don't get me wrong, I'm eagerly awaiting EQNext and have been for many years. I'm a big EQ fan. However, I also fully understand that the polls listed are a simple way to get players to come to terms with the final product and to assist with hype.
The point of the round table is to make you feel involved, like you're part of the development process. SOE has rehashed it over and over how they want this to be "YOUR GAME" and that they want to build a game based on YOUR LIKES. Unfortunately early on we can already see the round table is nothing but a place for them to string you along. They likely already got their minds made up about how exactly they want to create the game. They ask these questions, making us feel like we're a part of something special when we are not.
Honestly anybody who's played Planetside 2 should know that players have very little say with regards to the development of the games. SOE first introduced the roadmap idea in Planetside 2, it was met with great applause. But as it went along, us players saw how what we voted or said really didn't matter. People wanted the new continent to be released sooner than later, but SOE was dead set on doing things their way, continuing with the whole push for major league gaming ignoring a lot of existing player's concerns.
The round table is simply something that a SOE marketing guru thought up, it probably started as a good idea, but then the suits (managers, bosses, chief officers) came in and used it as a tool to fool players into thinking they're actually participating in the development of these games.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
At this point, the game design decisions and plans have all been made, or the game would not be where it is, or funded to go forward.
So, what is SOE going to change, based on player feedback/input from the round tables at this point?
Nothing, or nothing of any significance.
So who cares if the round tables are done at all?
Only SOE does, so they can use them for their PR/marketing machine in drumming up the hype.
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
The point is to gather feedback, I believe.
Were you expecting game design by mob rule?
If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
There is little point, although it does create the illusion of caring what potential customers think.
Those that have all their responses in the majority feel as though this game is "for them!".
Those that don't are told to re-evaluate their ideas.
Take the latest all races can be any class poll. Clearly SOE lost. It was probably unexpected though, then SOE had to fumble a bit to get a good response to justify going against the poll.
I would avoid company specific websites since they are loaded with shills. Stick to 3rd party sites like this one. At least shilling is against laws in the US - not sure about Europe. It's easier to hide shilling on an official site than a 3rd party site. [was an article about this on MMORPG.COM months ago]. resource to shill law = http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&rgn=div8&view=text&node=16:1.0.1.2.22.0.5.6&idno=16 (some stuff added over past year to reflect online endorsement of a product from those affiliated with or representing a company, anonymously via forums)
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Probably just to get an idea as to where the player base stands.
If it was overwhelming "one way or another" they probably would have capitulated to the players. Since its' not overwhelming they probably see it as a chance for them to branch out without.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo