My enthusiasm drops each time SOE speaks about EQN. This one may not matter to 60% of those polled, but I'm betting it is A BIG DEAL to those of us in the 40%.
Honestly when I first heard about the round table my hope for the game waned a bit. Now that I see that the round table is a poll rather than a vote my hopes are rising again. I don't really believe that race/class restrictions add much to the game. Especially given the fact that a big part of the game appears to be going out and getting classes to augment your main class with. There just doesn't appear to be a compelling reason to arbitrarily exclude x or y class from a or b race. Sure, you could write lore that makes it exclusive... or you could write lore that makes it inclusive. Game play isn't significantly improved (possibly isn't at all improved) by the addition of unnecessary and arbitrary limitation. This kind of limitation might make more sense if there were "hero" classes that had especially powerful abilities that, from a development standpoint, you didn't want players mixing and matching but we don't have that.
For those who are upset that SOE isn't listening to you (using the round table as a vote): Of course they aren't listenting to you. They are professional game developers and you are... well, not professional game developers (statistically speaking). Be glad that they aren't listening to the crowd too closely. It's the only hope you have for a good game...
The more i see SOE feedback on the round table, the more im convinced that they know what route theyre going to go, they just want to see how their future gamers will react to their decisions before pushing forward.
Were nit voting on things to be excluded or included, were just showing how we would feel if certain things are included or excluded. Obviously the more detailed feedback in the forums gives a better insight to these polls because its not always as black and white as the poll results show
exactly. If they have to ask questions like "Should female dwarves have beards", then they clearly don't have a grasp on the direction of the EQ franchise.
Clearly some things are "flavor". Dwarven female beards and ratonga fit into this category and it would make sense for SOE to treat those subjects more like a vote than an opinion poll. Restriction of classes to specific races, however, effects more that just the flavor of the game. It has the potential to effect game balance (especially in PvP). Of course they already have an idea of where they are going with the development of the game. If they didn't there wouldn't be much of a game developed. In the case of issues that may cause imbalance (not beards) it makes more sense to use the Round Table as a way to check in with the community as a whole. It's very possible that SOE gained information from the forums about this particular subject that helped them come to a final decision. Perhaps it was a group of players that gave the feedback that made the dev's realize that race/class restrictions had the potential to imbalance the game.
Race should never have a factor to pick a class, I mean if a human can pretty much be every thing why cant every other race do the same, I mean how would your race stop you from being whatever you want. If you're a Roleplayer it still should not stop you from being any thing, I mean really if you're say a Troll or an Ogre why could it not be a bard? It has hands and a mouth pretty sure they can play something it just may not be the best sound.
What a joke this is - it's like they are going out of their way and intentionally giving all the EQ1 vets a big middle finger with every new EQN info reveal.
Lets take all the unique things that made EQ cool (like the fact that race mattered) - and just throw it in the trash.
With every new reveal - EQN just keeps sounding worse and worse.
^ and people should take note how not to sound entitled. I do not mean any disrespect to DMK but he takes his own personal feelings and imposes them on everyone else who's ever played EQ 1 or EQ 2 (myself included, even if only briefly).
All they've revealed thus far is that every race can be any class in the game, they have not specified difficulty of acquisition or how different classes may apply differently to each race in particular so please keep a lid on it until we see (or better yet, play) the game itself in action. If it sucks then you can go thermonuclear, Hell I might even join you if they shit on the term sandbox.
What a joke this is - it's like they are going out of their way and intentionally giving all the EQ1 vets a big middle finger with every new EQN info reveal.
Lets take all the unique things that made EQ cool (like the fact that race mattered) - and just throw it in the trash.
With every new reveal - EQN just keeps sounding worse and worse.
Originally posted by nomadie Race should never have a factor to pick a class, I mean if a human can pretty much be every thing why cant every other race do the same, I mean how would your race stop you from being whatever you want. If you're a Roleplayer it still should not stop you from being any thing, I mean really if you're say a Troll or an Ogre why could it not be a bard? It has hands and a mouth pretty sure they can play something it just may not be the best sound.
That's exactly the point, an ogre should be a crap lute player say but good at drums or whatever. The two instruments could have different effects. This uniqueness can give you a sense of identity and team usefulness leading to an emotional bond with the character. The language of those producers implies race is purely cosmetic and in-fact the wording suggests they are against the principle of uniqueness.
Originally posted by Ehliya Why bother with the round table if SOE already knows what they want to do and are going to do it anyway? Yeesh, they aren't helping build trust...
They aren't looking for trust, they're looking for credit cards. Trust cost extra. >.>
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
What a joke this is - it's like they are going out of their way and intentionally giving all the EQ1 vets a big middle finger with every new EQN info reveal.
Lets take all the unique things that made EQ cool (like the fact that race mattered) - and just throw it in the trash.
With every new reveal - EQN just keeps sounding worse and worse.
^ and people should take note how not to sound entitled. I do not mean any disrespect to DMK but he takes his own personal feelings and imposes them on everyone else who's ever played EQ 1 or EQ 2 (myself included, even if only briefly).
All they've revealed thus far is that every race can be any class in the game, they have not specified difficulty of acquisition or how different classes may apply differently to each race in particular so please keep a lid on it until we see (or better yet, play) the game itself in action. If it sucks then you can go thermonuclear, Hell I might even join you if they shit on the term sandbox.
The reason for his notion of entitlement is because of how EQN was advertising the game (prior to its official reveal) as being this super new awesome EQ game that will appeal to many of the vets when really it isn't. At least, that's my interpretation of his post.
You know what's funny, I was watching on twitch when they revealed the new EQN theme song. They introduced the music director who did TESO and some other great games, played the original theme songs from EQ1 and EQ2 and totally built it up to be this super awesome remake that will blow everyone away! and then they played a song that was NOTHING like ANY of the EQ theme songs from before. It was like we were waiting for that part in the song that would build up to something similar to the original theme song but then it just ends up ending and yuo're left wondering what happened. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad song but it was just something that was NOTHING like any of the previous EQ games songs. And you can see how EQN builds it up to be this awesome and very nostalgic experience for many of us EQ1 and EQ2 vets but then they just leave you hanging and confused.
Originally posted by nomadie Race should never have a factor to pick a class, I mean if a human can pretty much be every thing why cant every other race do the same, I mean how would your race stop you from being whatever you want. If you're a Roleplayer it still should not stop you from being any thing, I mean really if you're say a Troll or an Ogre why could it not be a bard? It has hands and a mouth pretty sure they can play something it just may not be the best sound.
Sure every race has a mouth, hands, feet, etc but that doesn't mean an Ogre can play a flute as perfectly as an Elf; it doesn't mean a troll can be as sneaky/stealthy as a halfling. The whole aspect of roleplaying and immersion into the EQ world is thrown out the window. Making the decision of race purely cosmetic is like introducing gucci sunglasses into a game as purely cosmetic AND you can still use the same arguments as you would for no race/class restrictions. "Well, why limit peoples choices? Gucci sunglasses doesn't affect YOU! If YOU don't like sunglasses then don't use them!" So now we end up with a game where Troll rogues who wear bright yellow sunglasses are running around while people who take the game seriously end up asking themselves "wth am I doing?".
Have I missed the discussion on stats? The round table discussion I just watched made an excellent case for their final decision. Now I wonder if stats will affect class abilities at all. An Ogre will have less dexterity than an Elf and so while they can play as a rogue, will the stats make the Ogre Rogue less proficient in comparison to the Elf Rogue?
Will your choice of starting race determine what classes you can eventually be based on alignment? We already know that alignment will limit your ability for being either "Good" or "Evil" classes ie. good choices mean you can be a paladin but not a death knight. The Ogre being an evil race does this mean you will already be able to be a death knight but not a paladin when you start?
They discussed Gods and how your choice of one at the start of the game could limit your choices later. Was that an indication that there will be God choices? Will they also affect game play or be empty choices? How will you learn what that choice means in the long term? Will there be a mechanic for one player to recognize the God choice of an opposing player?
All in All - There are still a lot of unanswered questions that MAY make your starting choices still meaningful which is a legitimate concern. We still know so very little. I for one remain encouraged that they are at least soliciting input on so many subjects. I could care less if Female Dwarves have beards, but a whole lot of people seem to care that they get to choose
I like the idea of picking a race having a lasting impact, but I can really see their point about being dinged for picking the "wrong" race without having enough information to make an informed opinion. If players don't have enough information, or if the information needed amounts to a book (like AD&D), then picking a "good" race amounts to rolling some dice.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Wiha So I can roll gnome shadow knight-paladin-druid-necromancer? Personally I'm less interested in this game with every new info they reveal. SOE devs must really hate Everquest to erase everything from that game.
Many agree with you,very few will play this game.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Like we've said many times before, this game is Everquest in name only......The lore, the gameplay, basically the majority of the game have nothing to do with Everquest....This game is a total sellout to get as much money as possible for SOE and alot of suckers will fall for it....Enjoy your Minecraft/GW2 hybrid but i'd rather play the original EQ,
This is bad for a storyline or role play. This is a fantasy world, a troll can't be a paladin and a high elf can't be a shadow knight. Letting every race play every class is extremely boring as it doesn't hold a story, the point of an RPG, playing your role. Precisely the reason I stopped playing new games from my favorite franchises of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, they let everyone do everything...no story behind it. Even in our real world this holds true, you really can't be everything you want to be! How many lawyer doctor IT mechanic builders are around? Not too many...
If you really don't care about stories or immersion, just want to kill things and see explosions, why not just play some random shooter or fighting game? Since I quit EQ1 not a single new game has held my interest for more than a week, everyone asks for an easy game with everything given to them with no story at all....that is just boring.
I probably won't waste my money on this one either. I hope all that do have fun though.
Pope John XXIII. He was called the devil incarnate. With more than 200 girls in his harem in Boulogne, 300 nuns violated, and other sexual crimes, he was considered the most sexually charged pope ever. He was charged of fornication, simony, adultery, incest, sodomy, murder, and theft.
Pope John XXIII is one of the 17 evil popes in church history. A man who is supposed to be good can be also evil and viceversa, a man who is supposed to be evil can repent and be good. This is real roleplaying for me whether fantasy world or real world we're in.
Originally posted by Wiha So I can roll gnome shadow knight-paladin-druid-necromancer? Personally I'm less interested in this game with every new info they reveal. SOE devs must really hate Everquest to erase everything from that game.
QFT.
Are they making another tasteless game ? Removing all restrictions and making everything available to everyone won't make this a better experience than EQ/EQ2.
A ridiculous decision, period. And they might as well stop the polls, if they just don't care about people's opinions
Comments
Honestly when I first heard about the round table my hope for the game waned a bit. Now that I see that the round table is a poll rather than a vote my hopes are rising again. I don't really believe that race/class restrictions add much to the game. Especially given the fact that a big part of the game appears to be going out and getting classes to augment your main class with. There just doesn't appear to be a compelling reason to arbitrarily exclude x or y class from a or b race. Sure, you could write lore that makes it exclusive... or you could write lore that makes it inclusive. Game play isn't significantly improved (possibly isn't at all improved) by the addition of unnecessary and arbitrary limitation. This kind of limitation might make more sense if there were "hero" classes that had especially powerful abilities that, from a development standpoint, you didn't want players mixing and matching but we don't have that.
For those who are upset that SOE isn't listening to you (using the round table as a vote): Of course they aren't listenting to you. They are professional game developers and you are... well, not professional game developers (statistically speaking). Be glad that they aren't listening to the crowd too closely. It's the only hope you have for a good game...
The more i see SOE feedback on the round table, the more im convinced that they know what route theyre going to go, they just want to see how their future gamers will react to their decisions before pushing forward.
Were nit voting on things to be excluded or included, were just showing how we would feel if certain things are included or excluded. Obviously the more detailed feedback in the forums gives a better insight to these polls because its not always as black and white as the poll results show
^ and people should take note how not to sound entitled. I do not mean any disrespect to DMK but he takes his own personal feelings and imposes them on everyone else who's ever played EQ 1 or EQ 2 (myself included, even if only briefly).
All they've revealed thus far is that every race can be any class in the game, they have not specified difficulty of acquisition or how different classes may apply differently to each race in particular so please keep a lid on it until we see (or better yet, play) the game itself in action. If it sucks then you can go thermonuclear, Hell I might even join you if they shit on the term sandbox.
in EQ2 - all races could play all classes (assuming you betray)
it doesn't bother me that EQN supports it
EQ2 fan sites
That's exactly the point, an ogre should be a crap lute player say but good at drums or whatever. The two instruments could have different effects. This uniqueness can give you a sense of identity and team usefulness leading to an emotional bond with the character. The language of those producers implies race is purely cosmetic and in-fact the wording suggests they are against the principle of uniqueness.
They aren't looking for trust, they're looking for credit cards. Trust cost extra. >.>
You know what's fun about chaos? I do, but I won't tell.
The reason for his notion of entitlement is because of how EQN was advertising the game (prior to its official reveal) as being this super new awesome EQ game that will appeal to many of the vets when really it isn't. At least, that's my interpretation of his post.
You know what's funny, I was watching on twitch when they revealed the new EQN theme song. They introduced the music director who did TESO and some other great games, played the original theme songs from EQ1 and EQ2 and totally built it up to be this super awesome remake that will blow everyone away! and then they played a song that was NOTHING like ANY of the EQ theme songs from before. It was like we were waiting for that part in the song that would build up to something similar to the original theme song but then it just ends up ending and yuo're left wondering what happened. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad song but it was just something that was NOTHING like any of the previous EQ games songs. And you can see how EQN builds it up to be this awesome and very nostalgic experience for many of us EQ1 and EQ2 vets but then they just leave you hanging and confused.
Sure every race has a mouth, hands, feet, etc but that doesn't mean an Ogre can play a flute as perfectly as an Elf; it doesn't mean a troll can be as sneaky/stealthy as a halfling. The whole aspect of roleplaying and immersion into the EQ world is thrown out the window. Making the decision of race purely cosmetic is like introducing gucci sunglasses into a game as purely cosmetic AND you can still use the same arguments as you would for no race/class restrictions. "Well, why limit peoples choices? Gucci sunglasses doesn't affect YOU! If YOU don't like sunglasses then don't use them!" So now we end up with a game where Troll rogues who wear bright yellow sunglasses are running around while people who take the game seriously end up asking themselves "wth am I doing?".
I'm an old EQ vet and this doesn't bother me.
Pikel Bouldershoulder was a Druid.
Too much butt hurt on this board about anything lately.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Have I missed the discussion on stats? The round table discussion I just watched made an excellent case for their final decision. Now I wonder if stats will affect class abilities at all. An Ogre will have less dexterity than an Elf and so while they can play as a rogue, will the stats make the Ogre Rogue less proficient in comparison to the Elf Rogue?
Will your choice of starting race determine what classes you can eventually be based on alignment? We already know that alignment will limit your ability for being either "Good" or "Evil" classes ie. good choices mean you can be a paladin but not a death knight. The Ogre being an evil race does this mean you will already be able to be a death knight but not a paladin when you start?
They discussed Gods and how your choice of one at the start of the game could limit your choices later. Was that an indication that there will be God choices? Will they also affect game play or be empty choices? How will you learn what that choice means in the long term? Will there be a mechanic for one player to recognize the God choice of an opposing player?
All in All - There are still a lot of unanswered questions that MAY make your starting choices still meaningful which is a legitimate concern. We still know so very little. I for one remain encouraged that they are at least soliciting input on so many subjects. I could care less if Female Dwarves have beards, but a whole lot of people seem to care that they get to choose
Slayer
I like the idea of picking a race having a lasting impact, but I can really see their point about being dinged for picking the "wrong" race without having enough information to make an informed opinion. If players don't have enough information, or if the information needed amounts to a book (like AD&D), then picking a "good" race amounts to rolling some dice.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Many agree with you,very few will play this game.
This is bad for a storyline or role play. This is a fantasy world, a troll can't be a paladin and a high elf can't be a shadow knight. Letting every race play every class is extremely boring as it doesn't hold a story, the point of an RPG, playing your role. Precisely the reason I stopped playing new games from my favorite franchises of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, they let everyone do everything...no story behind it. Even in our real world this holds true, you really can't be everything you want to be! How many lawyer doctor IT mechanic builders are around? Not too many...
If you really don't care about stories or immersion, just want to kill things and see explosions, why not just play some random shooter or fighting game? Since I quit EQ1 not a single new game has held my interest for more than a week, everyone asks for an easy game with everything given to them with no story at all....that is just boring.
I probably won't waste my money on this one either. I hope all that do have fun though.
Pope John XXIII. He was called the devil incarnate. With more than 200 girls in his harem in Boulogne, 300 nuns violated, and other sexual crimes, he was considered the most sexually charged pope ever. He was charged of fornication, simony, adultery, incest, sodomy, murder, and theft.
Pope John XXIII is one of the 17 evil popes in church history. A man who is supposed to be good can be also evil and viceversa, a man who is supposed to be evil can repent and be good. This is real roleplaying for me whether fantasy world or real world we're in.
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
QFT.
Are they making another tasteless game ? Removing all restrictions and making everything available to everyone won't make this a better experience than EQ/EQ2.
A ridiculous decision, period. And they might as well stop the polls, if they just don't care about people's opinions