RACE nothing more than cosmetic

thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

Justsomenoob

This is something I'm glad is becoming more standard in new MMOs honestly.

 

I hate having to minmax something that affects my appearance.  

bcbully

Welp there you have it, FFA. Now let's talk about how it will be implemented.

 

I do like race locked classes. At the same time I've been playing Wushu where everyone is human ofcourse. I'm ok with no race/profession locks in this situation. More potential freedom is always good for sandboxes.

 

Let's just hope that obtaining and leveling different professions is not something you do on a whim. It should take time and planning.

HighMarshal

They can have racial factions if you can change them with gameplay.

Asbo

The reason EQI was so popular was because of the locked race types and for me I feel that's the thing which could let EQN down, however until we know more then there is no point with the dramatic statements because we no nothing in full yet and I am of the opinion that SOE have not got any where near a game otherwise we would be hearing more information weekly and that's not happening.

I feel the round table thing is there way of getting what we want to play and guiding them and that's why we seen very little of the game thus far. I guess from what we have seen there has to be some kind of game but they holding it to close to their chest and we will have to wait and see. I for one am no fan of hype or speculation so until we see more then I'll just hold judgment until I get my hands on the beta.

Stiler

Race factions has nothing to do with this, they can still have them and have already mentioned factions will play a part in EQN...

 

Also the reason EQ was popular? Umm, I don't recall ANYONE ever in the my entire time playing EQ saying "Oh I like and enjoy this game because of race restrictions."

 

Grahor

I always wanted to play Dwarf Mage in games. That's because I feel like it. But nooooo, no magic for our dwarfs, you have an axe - go hack someone!

 

What's about more intellectually inclined dwarfs? Yes, I have an axe, but it's a somewhat bookish axe, you know... Axe-letter-opener, if you wish. 

 

What is there, in most games, for dwarves who want to put points into intelligence? At this point I'm ready to play a fraking accountant...

 

So, yeah, races being cosmetics only - I'm all for it!

azmundai

honestly .. just put long quests in so people can attune themselves to whichever racial abilities they want. you may start out with +10 spirit but if you work to understand the ways of another race you can "switch" to their racial ability.

Karteli

It's all apart of the watering down of MMORPG's .. why bother with class balance, when you can make each class the same (GW2) and now all races the same too (EQN).

 

Classes and Races used to matter in prospective upcoming MMORPGS, now the devs don't care - "make everyone equal, then our jobs are done and we don't have to ever worry again"!

 

With classes, for a sandbox this makes some sense, but having players click and choose which profession they prefer every few minutes / days / sessions is counter-productive.  AND IMMERSION BREAKING!

 

A player acquires knowledge, they don't simply switch on and off what they would like to master in, on a whim.

 

Then the race issue .. some races are simply better at certain classes.  Making an Ogre rogue, or a gnome warrior is just f'n stupid.  Size counts

 

Adalwulff

Maybe this is their idea of the ultimate sandbox

Where anyone can be anything, even if it doesn't make sense....

Erithiel

Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

 

I think you misunderstand. Role in this regard applies to the roles of the trinity: tank, healer and dps. 

Also, effective does not mean identical. 

joe2721

Am actually for race class limitations, As in most fantasy i have come across a dwarf mage is not a common sight. But I do keep seeing posts say this is not a sandbox game.  so I did alittle searching as it is sounding more and more like the freedom you had in UO which is and was one of the best sandbox games.

http://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming

Sandbox

Techopedia explains Sandbox

Gamers play sandbox games according to their preference. These games include structured elements - such as mini-games, tasks, submissions and storylines - that may be ignored by gamers. In fact, the sandbox game's nonlinear nature creates storyline challenges for game designers. For this reason, tasks and side missions usually follow a progression, where tasks are unlocked upon successful task completion.

Sandbox game types vary. Massive multiplayer online role-playing games (MMORPG) generally include a mixture of sandbox and progression gaming and heavily depend on emergent interactive user gameplay for retaining non-progression-focused gamers. Modern "beat 'em ups" and first-person shooters have delved more deeply into the sandbox realm with titles like the "Grand Theft Auto" series, "Red Dead Redemption," "Assassin’s Creed" and others, allowing gamers to run and gun wherever the mood takes them.

In spite of their name, various sandbox games continue to impose restrictions at some stages of the game environment. This can be due the game's design limitations, or can be a short-run, in-game limitations, such as some locked areas in games that will be unlocked once certain milestones are achieved.

This definition was written in the context of Gaming.

Posted by: Cory Janssen

 

tawess

Originally posted by NightBandit

The reason EQI was so popular was because of the locked race types

 

And here i have been thinking all these years that it was popular because it was the first full 3d MMO/MUD with a fully fleshed out persistent world.

 

Silly me... Ofc it was the fact that it was race locked.

 

Beyond that i think it is ok to have a few small tweaks to races but (as any blizzard employee can tell you) having race features that actually impact gameplay is setting your self up for a never ending circle of buff this and nerf that.

Slampig

Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

This all set in stone? Did they even say this? *SIGH*

Thupli

I personally like racially unique traits.

 

I would prefer small bonuses that aren't game breaking:

 

Elf- 3% faster movement speed

Dwarf- 3% more health

Human- 3% more generic... haha, ok, just kidding

 

But seriously, stuff like that makes it really fun and have at least a LITTLE bit of meaning and difference, so long as it isn't game breaking.

 

And honestly, that's fine for min-maxer's.  If 3% is enough for you to min max, why not?  It isn't going to break gameplay unless it is a drastic difference or OP ability. 

 

Give me all races being all classes, but each race having it's own unique flavor with racial skills or passives, please.

Karteli

Originally posted by tawess

Originally posted by NightBandit

The reason EQI was so popular was because of the locked race types

 

And here i have been thinking all these years that it was popular because it was the first full 3d MMO/MUD with a fully fleshed out persistent world.

 

Silly me... Ofc it was the fact that it was race locked.

 

Beyond that i think it is ok to have a few small tweaks to races but (as any blizzard employee can tell you) having race features that actually impact gameplay is setting your self up for a never ending circle of buff this and nerf that.

But, who cares what developers feel?

 

Like it or not, gamers enjoy that strife with race balance.  Blizzard did well with this.  It's when the differences get taken out and made moot .. thats when a game dies (one of the reasons anyways).

 

At least when the dev's change stuff, it makes it appear like they are doing "something".  This is important to customer perception, even if only a few values get changed.

 

Set the system up where nothing changes, everyone is the same, and watch the empire crumble...

 

newbinator

Lazy game design. A good developer would have unique racial abilities, one's that are useful to all role/classes.

 

The more I learn about EQ:N, the less I want to play it.

Dihoru

Sandbox equals choices, the more the better, anyone that says races should have class limitations should pull their imagination limiter out ( example: a dwarven mage could rely on rune based magic instead of mana based magic, basically instead of chanting some latin shit and using his mana he draws symbols in some fashion that achieve the same thing, they both have to have the same degree of limitation in damage/healting/w/e potentials but yeah two different flavours for the same thing, also to the numptee that said midget races shouldn't be warriors: think lighter armour, no large two handed weapons but significant bonuses to dodging thus allowing you to be a warrior and with slight work that agility can make you more useful than a lumbering ogre warrior).

bliss14

Indeed, games should not contribute to racism.  All of the races should be equal in all ways.  Except gnomes. Screw them.

Arkain

Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

I would suggest you look both EQ1 and EQ2:

In both race plays a part, but it becomes meaningless as you level.

Most likely this is the path that will be taken.

Karteli

Originally posted by Dihoru
Sandbox equals choices, the more the better, anyone that says races should have class limitations should pull their imagination limiter out

Sandbox doesn't mean having illogical choices, however.  Astronaughts are chosen not because of what they know, but because of their bodies - small / medium, small preferred.  Jockies are generally small also, for damn good reason (light weight wins).

 

Having a small wrestler doesn't make sense (Andy Kaufman is the exception!).

 

[Although he won  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p5KMZe8n0o]  Great job, and he did beat up quite a few women !  Later he lost to a much larger man.

 

Sometimes body size just matters, and there is nothing anyone can say to take that away :-D

 

It's on film after all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZamXdKlDdg) He lost against a man

 

To those interested, gets his face pushed in later on:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ-1ucVJGno

To end all his smack talk .. size matters!

 

 

irpugboss

I dont mind races and classes not being locked, but I would've preferred physical stats to at least represent each race that makes certain races better at certain classes...like a soft lock I guess.

I don't really like seeing 3ft gnomes that have comparable strength to 8ft Ogres, and although some players may want to be a gnome warrior I think they should pay the price for that size in HP but perhaps have a higher agility to make up for it.

It would emphasize different playstyles for each race along each class if pulled off right, and simply require a different stat priority.

I like to think of each class and races role in team sport terms, usually football. Races all having the same performance in each class role is like the idea of a 5'9 185lb football player being able to perform at the same level as a 6'7 300lb football player on the offensive line as far as durability and blocking.

Point being, let race-class selection be limited but do give incentive for certain common sense combinations that can be offset by gearing, stat priorities and playstyle....that adds a nice layer of depth for those who like gnome warriors, while also giving min-maxers their ideal race-class-playstyle-stat setups as well.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Dihoru
Sandbox equals choices, the more the better, anyone that says races should have class limitations should pull their imagination limiter out

Sandbox doesn't mean having illogical choices, however.  Astronaughts are chosen not because of what they know, but because of their bodies - small / medium, small preferred.  Jockies are generally small also, for damn good reason (light weight wins).

 

Having a small wrestler doesn't make sense (Andy Kaufman is the exception!).

 

 

 

Logic is a objective system, what you described above isn't objective.

Also astronauts and cosmonauts are chosen based on health not morphology, you blew your own foot off with that one (Neil Armstrong was 1.8 m tall, that's taller than me by a good 2 inches).

Deadlyne

Originally posted by thinlizzy

So, given the devs have said they dont want any choice a player makes when making a character to limit them from being effective in any role, we must conclude that RACE will be no more than a cosmetic choice.

No racial factions

No racial limitations

No racial variation (that impacts on game play)

No racial advantage

In short race is about as relevant as choosing the color of your underpants.

 

For me this is a big disappointment.

I see no reasoning or logic which shows that we "must conclude" that race is purely cosmetic.  You supplied absolutely no evidence that they meant this by any means.  You simply said we must conclude that and therefore x, y and z are true.  Being effective in a role says to me, that you class is able to perform well enough to be helpful to your group/raid. 

Factions definitely exist they haven't explained them all in detail but they have stated very plainly just how greatly the faction system in EQN will matter.  I'm not going to say that guarantees racial factions, but, it seems a more logical assumption than yours.  

I don't see any reason why racial class limitations matter to anyone, but to each their own.  

Your last two points are just so completely grounded in assumption and exaggeration I don't see any point on commenting on them.  

In short your post is about as relevant as matching the color of your underpants to your shoelaces.

Angzt

first everyone is "uhhuu i can learn everything so cool", then you go "damn! i can learn anything!"?

 

i r confused

Karteli

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Karteli

Originally posted by Dihoru
Sandbox equals choices, the more the better, anyone that says races should have class limitations should pull their imagination limiter out

Sandbox doesn't mean having illogical choices, however.  Astronaughts are chosen not because of what they know, but because of their bodies - small / medium, small preferred.  Jockies are generally small also, for damn good reason (light weight wins).

 

Having a small wrestler doesn't make sense (Andy Kaufman is the exception!).

 

 

 

Logic is a objective system, what you described above isn't objective.

Also astronauts and cosmonauts are chosen based on health not morphology, you blew your own foot off with that one (Neil Armstrong was 1.8 m tall, that's taller than me by a good 2 inches).

Neil was extremely slim, so weight shouldn't come into this?  Yes .. but you insist on bringing height (like that matters).

 

He could be 9 foot fall, be slim as a board and still weigh 150 lbs. (though he wasnt, although was still slim)

 

Actually his measurements weren't that far from that (height lower lol).  If you want to center on height .. fine.  But size also consists of mass, and smaller beings generally have a quicker movement speed than larger beings.

 

Thus why halflings are more suited to thievery than, say, humans or ogres.

 

and yes, that is a ZING!