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Does the combat still suck?

PiechunksPiechunks ProvincePosts: 136Member

When I got to try this game for free last year, I really liked a lot of things about it:

the horror theme (the references especially), graphics, some of the nifty puzzle quests, soundtrack and character advancement

 

However, the extremely repetitive and carpal tunnel inducing combat really chased me away from it. The "spam builder like a monkey then hit finisher" routine hurt my fingers and my sanity.

Have they added more active skills to combat, or at least made the builders auto-attack?

 

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Comments

  • KaiyeKaiye Jacksonville, NCPosts: 31Member

    "Suck" is a matter of opinion.  You would probably have a better response from "Is combat the same?" instead.  Some people enjoy the combat.

    That aside, yes, combat remains the same. Auxillary weapons have been added since launch and I've never seen where it was nothing but "builder, builder, builder, finisher", but to each his own.  There are numerous weapons and builds that can be made providing a mixture of results with different sequence and buffs ect. but in the end, builders - build - to a finisher.  If you don't like that type of combat, you're probably not going to like the game.

    image

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 773Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Piechunks
    When I got to try this game for free last year, I really liked a lot of things about it:the horror theme (the references especially), graphics, some of the nifty puzzle quests, soundtrack and character advancement However, the extremely repetitive and carpal tunnel inducing combat really chased me away from it. The "spam builder like a monkey then hit finisher" routine hurt my fingers and my sanity.Have they added more active skills to combat, or at least made the builders auto-attack? 

    No, and nothing you are suggesting would work in that game. Sorry to tell you but I do not see anyone changing a game that drastically to please a very small portion of people, most of which once they get that change will just find something else to whine about.

    TL/DR:
    No, and I do not see them changing the combat system.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • Arkade99Arkade99 Parsippany, NJPosts: 120Member Uncommon
    The fun of TSW combat comes in the dungeons where movement is very important. I'll take TSW combat over GW2 or FFXIV combat any day.
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    for me combat is ok,just what combat must to be in an mmoRPG!

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member
    The only thing that has changed is the cross hair combat mode which makes things a bit different but it is still the same combat skill wise.  If you thought it sucked then then you'll probably think it sucks now, though many would disagree.
  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member
    Originally posted by Kaiye

    "Suck" is a matter of opinion.  You would probably have a better response from "Is combat the same?" instead.  Some people enjoy the combat.

    That aside, yes, combat remains the same. Auxillary weapons have been added since launch and I've never seen where it was nothing but "builder, builder, builder, finisher", but to each his own.  There are numerous weapons and builds that can be made providing a mixture of results with different sequence and buffs ect. but in the end, builders - build - to a finisher.  If you don't like that type of combat, you're probably not going to like the game.

    I think people confuse "how they used the combat system" with "how the combat system is intended to be used".

    I watch "let's play" type videos of people doing missions in TSW and I find myself yelling at the screen, because all they're doing is spamming their builder over and over and over again.... maybe occasionally remembering they have other actions on the hotbar.

    I have to imagine those are the people that go on forums and complain that "the combat is just spamming the same key over and over again".

    I mean, I guess it can "work", but it makes the fights sooooo much longer than they need to be and actually puts you in more danger of dying in a number of cases.

    Which, when I think of it, probably accounts for why so many would complain that the fights take too long.

    Kinda makes sense when you think about it that way. Not taking advantage of your actives or benefits from your passives and just spamming your builder over and over again = really long, slow and boring fights.

    Using your skill build-out, taking advantage of the synergy between your actives and passives = faster and more entertaining fight.

    Spoiler-ish ahead if you are still early in the game, or haven't started playing yet...

    I was watching someone do the final Beaumont fight of  "Dawning of An Endless Night", and they used their builder about 95% of the fight. Never used a finisher, never used skills to take advantage of triggers or states inflicted, would use another skill once in a while, and with no clear reason apparent.  Just spamming the same key over and over again. It dragged the fight out so long that Beaumont actually went into a second round of "clones" and filth hounds. I didn't even know he did that a second time, because the fight for me was over shortly after I'd take out the first round of filth hounds.

    But it really does go to show how, when people complain that the combat in TSW is just spamming builder over and over, with an occasional finisher... it really says more about their inability to use their skills effectively.

  • flclimaxflclimax Hempstead, NYPosts: 92Member Common
    yes, it still sucks immensely.
  • flizzerflizzer Manchester, NHPosts: 1,550Member Uncommon
    I find so much else in this game amazing, but the combat just turns me off.  I'm a fan of GW2 combat and going from that game to TSW just turned me off.  I keep telling myself to give it another chance because they do so much else right in this game, but I don't know.
  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon

    I find the combat to be among the best in the genre, and it's the main reason why I still play the game.

    The combat is extremely fast and/or slow and everything in between depending on your build and choice of gear.

    Almost every boss fight is designed around movement, the combat is very action-based, very fast and very risky, one mistake and you're dead -- especially in the end-game. There probably exist some genuine criticism on the combat system (such as not THAT advanced animations as in Age of Conan, but nothing substandard), but most of the criticism is just unreasonable or based on the fact that people did not understand the skill wheel.

    REALITY CHECK

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • BMBenderBMBender Nowhere, NCPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Beh wrong thread

    image
  • Agent_JosephAgent_Joseph SarajevoPosts: 1,070Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    only EVE is real MMO...but I am impressive with TSW

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

    Yeah, only you have like five options lol

  • BookahBookah Bar Harbor, MEPosts: 259Member
    Originally posted by Piechunks

    When I got to try this game for free last year, I really liked a lot of things about it:

    the horror theme (the references especially), graphics, some of the nifty puzzle quests, soundtrack and character advancement

     

    However, the extremely repetitive and carpal tunnel inducing combat really chased me away from it. The "spam builder like a monkey then hit finisher" routine hurt my fingers and my sanity.

    Have they added more active skills to combat, or at least made the builders auto-attack?

     

    TSW is kinda of hard @ first when getting through New England, be sure to use Blades or Fist weapons!

    I ended up loving the combat HOWEVER I tried New England With just "Blood Magic" and boy was it rough lol!

    Once I got blade going for some AOE and tanky stuff things got better fast.

    Now I Freaking Love this game

    image
  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

    Yeah, only you have like five options lol

    Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

  • KimikazeKimikaze KristiansandPosts: 11Member

    The combat is still the same and there does not seem to be plans on any changes or improvements. There was a lot of talk on different improvements in the works about a year ago, but these plans apparently didn't make it into the game. Augmentations, a system where you can alter the abilities in the game, is on the way, but does not seem to change the combat or how you play to any significant degree from what we have seen so far. Reticule mode targeting has been added, but is considered a beta feature, and only supports a over the shoulder mode witch is not optimal in most situations.

     

    There are a lot of tips on the official forums on how to make the combat experience better. Everything from new gaming mice, autohotkey scripts and creative key bindings. The repetitive combat is still the same, but it's possible to improve your experience so you can enjoy the game as a whole.

     

    To the people who says the combat is fine and just a few players actually complain about it, that is simply not true. This is one of the main complaints when players try out the game. I have friends myself who quit because of it, and ask me from time to time if there has been any improvements. Funcom is aware of the complaints, but have limited resources so they have prioritized other areas, like more content and bug fixing.

     

    To sum it up the game as a whole is better, but the combat is basically the same.

  • HatefullHatefull Posts: 773Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Actually i agree with the OP... This game does many many things best in buiseness... However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time... Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.  Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    And what game would that be? I would love to play a game with no set rotation, where I have a lot of skills at my disposal to use in any situation I am forced to adapt to. Please I am dying to hear about this.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • KimikazeKimikaze KristiansandPosts: 11Member
    Originally posted by Hatefull

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...


     

    And what game would that be? I would love to play a game with no set rotation, where I have a lot of skills at my disposal to use in any situation I am forced to adapt to. Please I am dying to hear about this.

    One recent example could be Neverwinter witch has a far more active reactionary approach to the combat. Even Guild Wars 2 has it with it's dodging implementation. I would even consider WoW to have more reactionary combat with it's crown control options and so forth. There are lots of examples like this out there. Not sure if that is the type of games that Lord.Bachus had in mind but I pretty much agree with his conclusion, only deference is that I haven't quit playing TSW because of it. I like combat systems where you can impact the outcome of the battle based on how you react to situations that occur during combat. TSW has moved a lot of those decisions out of combat and over to the deck creation process. This might be interesting for a lot of players, but it takes away a sense of accomplishment you might experience in some other combat systems.

  • ThillianThillian BratislavaPosts: 3,143Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kimikaze
    Originally posted by Hatefull

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    ...

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...


     

    And what game would that be? I would love to play a game with no set rotation, where I have a lot of skills at my disposal to use in any situation I am forced to adapt to. Please I am dying to hear about this.

    One recent example could be Neverwinter witch has a far more active reactionary approach to the combat. Even Guild Wars 2 has it with it's dodging implementation. 

    This is such a fallacy that I cant stay silent.

    TSW has dodge as well, which is absolutely CRITICAL to most of the end-game fights. If you stand at one spot for more than a few seconds, you usually die to some AoE boss mechanics. You have to be aware all the time of the surroundings; this is one of the most reactive and action-based combat out there. The skills does not root you to the ground and everything, including your DPS or healing rotation, requires perfect timing TOGETHER with moving around avoiding boss's abilities.

    This game has few skills? This game has over 600 skills. From aoe stuns, through short-distance teleports, threat-reducers, dots, crowd control, chained reactions, impairs, buffs, debuffs, dispels, speed buffs to all kinds of healing, temporary regenerations, mitigation bonuses and EVERYTHING ELSE you actually see in other games, which YOU CAN COMBINE any way you like AND on the run (you don't need to see a trainer, you can switch abilities anytime when you're out of combat even inside a 5-man instance). 

    YOU take tactical decisions what sorts of abilities you will need for the upcoming fight. Apart from 2 obvious single-target DPS, you have 6 other slots for UTILITY abilities like AOE, BUFFS, DEBUFFS, aggro utilizers or whatever abilities you think will help you. You are able completely rebuild your character from one boss to another, IF THAT doesn't give you enough TACTICAL OPTIONS, then I don't know what does, and I URGE you to mention at least game you think have sufficient tactical options.

    REALITY CHECK

  • curacura WarsawPosts: 950Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

    Yeah, only you have like five options lol

    Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

    What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

    Yeah, only you have like five options lol

    Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

    What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

    Ok but there are actually 7 active and 7 passive slots, not 5. You actually have 8 active slots when you start using the aux weapons. Let's at least be accurate about what is possible. With 525 abilities that can be slotted in the deck, you actually have room for a lot of combos and variety. Work in active and passive synergies and there's quite a bit of depth there.

    Dodging and moving is a big part of combat too. Fine if you aren't interested in learning how to create an interesting deck, but plenty others are having fun with the system.

  • TheRealDarkeusTheRealDarkeus Harrisonburg, VAPosts: 305Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by cura
    Originally posted by TheRealDarkeus
    Originally posted by Agent_Joseph
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Actually i agree with the OP...

     

    This game does many many things best in buiseness...

     

    However their combat system is not fun at all (in my opinion), why?  well, there are so few skills, and they are organised in such a way, that while doing combat you mindlessly repeat the same rotations time after time...

     

    Thats why i like games with combat that force players to react to the things happening on screen, and in general games with a plethora of skills work better for that... this is also the reason i never play DPS classes, but stick to tanks healers and crowd controllers in the trinnity.

     

     

    Anyway.... while no game is perfect, the combat system in this game is not fun at all, and since i spend most my time doing combat, i quit the game.   My favourite games force people to take tactical decisions at the right moment...

    You just describe TSW boss fight;NM,lairs...

    That is what I was thinking.  You just described TSW combat to a tee.  What do you really want from games?

    Yeah, only you have like five options lol

    Five options?  What do you mean?  Build options?  Because I can think of four healing builds that do it differently right now and the same number of DPS or Tank builds, all different..  I am not sure I understand what you are saying.

    What i meant is that decks consist of like five active skills you can use during fight. That doesnt provide player with many tactical options. Offcourse you can swap decks out of combat which can help in some situations and you have to move but overally i found combat combat and synergy system more tedious then tactical.

    Yeah, another poster said it but there are seven active slots and seven passive slots.  That makes 14 slots.

     

    And the tactics comes from matching synergies and creating the right build for the right moment.  I don't see how Two rows of action bars on each side of your screen and a huge action bar on the bottom as tactical.  Lol, you end up using the same rotations in games with more slots too....

  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Algo Star SystemPosts: 651Member Uncommon

    I've never heard the words "Too few skills" and The Secret World used in a sentence before. That's a new one.

     

    The combat is actually decent and is a cool mix of "action" and tab target. If it were up to me things would be a bit less traditional and a little more action. The game could use way better animations though and more variation of them. Things need a bit more balancing as well.

     

    OP talked about wanting "auto attack", so I can what mentality they might have. Combat doesn't suck my friend, it's just not for YOU.  You want macros and to stand in one place while you chat and eat snacks. I don't judge you.

  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG MelbournePosts: 1,133Member Uncommon

    My only issue with combat in this game is that the combat animation feels disjointed...

     

    Other than that there is nothing wrong with the mechanics or the system itself.

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