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Guilds, what happened to them.
xpowderx
Member UncommonPosts: 2,078
What happened to guilds?
I do not mean as if they disappeared. Rather, what happened to those close knit large or small guilds where each player knew one another. In years past I feel humble to know that I belonged to two very good guilds. But since I left them 3 years ago I have not found anything like them.
My last couple of guilds have been horrendous. In rift my guildies were only in it for the bonus benefits. No one really talked to each other, worked together for common goals. Or actually try to help improve the guild. A guild will have raidchat or vent. But no one ever logs on.
Something is missing. Did mmorpg players change that much? Did the F2P format help with the selfish resonance I see in many of the players today?
Once, a guild was a thing of pride. You worked together to achieve big accomplishments that no single player could do. Everyone in a sense was like a extended family member. You shared, fought, and did things together. All with purpose! Do those types of guilds exist? Did they disappear? I am currently playing Aion, my hopes is to find that perfect guild again.
How many of you are in guilds and have seen guilding detriorate?
My hope is we as players change back to the team oriented guilds. Where friendships last and the guild lasts longer.
Comments
Guild as a concept were mostly destroyed when newbie players would make a guild as the earliest opportunity and then spam random, silent invites to complete strangers. They would also invite absolutely anyone who inquired about a guild in General Chat, no questions asked. Thus, dozens of people would join up without exchanging a single word to each other, and what came into being wasn't a guild... it was a mob of players who neither knew each other nor gave a crap about each other or the reputation of the newly-founded guild. No-one established any basic criteria for membership or standards of behaviour for people in the guild. Like "Friends" (I use the term loosely) on Faecesbook(tm) all that mattered were sheer numbers and not quality.
Because of this, guilds became full of whining, ninja-looting, greedy, selfish, inarticulate, under-educated players who were only ever interested in who could power-level them next and who would give them free gear. I have given up on guilds completely and it's been 13 or 14 years since I was last in one. It's a shame because I was in a couple of good ones before the rot set in.
There are good guilds still out there. A lot of them are very old and have been together for over ten years. Even in new MMO's you meet people in a PUG and add to friends list, party with them more, and they'll ask you to join their guild. Those are the guilds that you join. If you respond to advertisement sent to thousands of players, many of them are going to respond. Like you said, that's when it goes to poop.
I still have faith in guilds today. There are good ones hidden in the mist.
I also agree with what others have posted. MMOs are not designed to induce social interaction like they used to be. Guild Wars 2 allows you to join more than one guild, and the game is extremely popular.
Darkfall Unholy Wars is the most recent game that puts the spotlight on guilds (called clans in UW). The whole endgame is Clan vs Clan. The leaders are well known within the community, the in-clan drama is sometimes huge forum discussions for all to see. Shitty game, but huge focus on community. You cannot enjoy that game to its full potential alone.
Why would that be a problem? The whole guild can move to another game, or even a guild can play multiple games.
Still belong to several good guilds, including one made up of a small group of players that I've known since 2002 and I also belong to a "mega-guild" that has chapters across multiple games and I join up with them when there's a title they are part of that I'm interested in.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't think guilds have changed at all. In fact, its WAY better.
Classic day reason to join: Benefits, forced interaction to use people
Modern day reason to join: Benefits, non-forced interaction, choice to join or not
In old MMOs, you were forced to group with people. The only reason to join was because you were forced to, so you could do stuff. There was no other reason, but to use other people because you were forced to, and likewise they had to use you to accomplish anything.
In modern MMOs, you are aren't forced to join. You can do stuff with a guild or not, but aren't forced to be with anyone. I was in plenty of small, tight-knit guilds in WoW on Emerald Dream until I landed on the one that clicked the most.
Personally don't care about benefits, tend to be small bonuses anyway (at least to me, but I'm not a min-maxer). But for those that want the benefits and min/max, they'd probably be more forced to join the guilds with best bonuses. So, in that aspect, they are still forced to join.
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Other people have already mentioned these but here's the problem with many guilds today:
-- Guilds are treated like PUGs. I don't know how many times I've rejected random guild invites in games. Sometimes I've even looked around and not found the person who sent the invite. Either they used a search feature to find my name or didn't really care to stand around long enough to find out whether or not I accepted the invite.
-- Guilds are started for the sake of starting a guild or being leader of a guild. In MMO I'm currently playing, guild leaders shout information about their guild to advertise. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a guild search feature in the game. In order to start a new guild, a person must have two other players sign up. Frequently people shout asking for others to help them start a guild. These people often add that "you can leave after you sign up." The two things that come to my mind are "what is your guild about?" or "what are you offering that will be different from the other guilds advertising for members?" and "what is the purpose of starting a guild if you don't have at least three members wanting to stay?" I've even seen people offering the game's currency in exchange for someone helping them to start the guild (once again being able to leave once the guild has started).
-- Game design doesn't help. The last time I really felt a part of a guild was SWG (pre-CU/CU ...any connection I felt with guild in NGE was because I'd already connected with it). Player cities provided a common place for guild members to gather. Players actually needed each other for heals, buffs, and supplies and these were things that took place off the "battlefield" (not just a healer class that helped in battle but healers that removed "wounds" that built up during battles or from dying). The game also had character development without character levels. This allowed players in all stages of development to group together for various activities. It allowed guilds to insist that potential members participate in guild activities for a certain amount of time before joining. There also wasn't a "must do A then B then C then ...." to progress in the game which meant a player needed to spam for help with a certain "dungeon"/boss in order to progress while other members of the guild were spamming for help with a higher or lower level "dungeon"/boss. There was no waiting for "endgame" when everyone finally reached the same level in order to do stuff together. In SWG, there was no concept of "endgame." Most MMOs these days are leveled character themeparks which means that players frequently need to find others of the same level in order to do content. Some MMOs are going to a level adjustment system but that only allows higher level guild members to help lower level members...IF they are willing to take a break from the high level content. Also, very few games these days have a common meeting area designed for guilds, in-world or instanced. Instead guild members become "faceless" players that are only known through gulidchat and sometimes guilds are reduced to being nothing more than a group of people who share a chat box.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
In my guild in GW2 we always have lots of fun and do stuff together all the time, sure sometimes its nothing more then a chatroom but that not so bad, you talk to friends and have fun while doing it.
We always do guild events and dungeons together and the pvp guys take castles in our name, but we always help everyone who need it and I am sorry for all of you who don't have that guild experiance.
Good (for me). That is how i like it.
solo games == solo guilds
games with 90% solo content and a handful of raids and zergable dungeons make guilds pointless for large chunks of the population.
guilds are basically xp bonuses now.
it's actually counter productive to join a group in most new mmos that I have played.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
It's not even just that, though I agree. It used to be that the content in these games was often difficult enough that it was best approached with a friend or friends. Now it's all mostly solo-focused, so there's not much change to enjoy guild or server-based friendships. Same with crafting and gathering. Everyone is an island onto themselves, except for instances, and that need can be filled by pugs for most people.
It's a shame. I got hooked on this genre with Star Wars Galaxies because of those player interactions, and it was all taken away to cater to the A.D.D. generation.
I always use the planet Dathomir back in pre-NGE SWG. No matter what level your character was, one person didn't just walk around Dath without expecting to get dead often. You could treat Dath like one big dungeon, and run it with a group, and have an amazing time with friends. I miss games with truly tough mobs and content like that. The higher level Nightsisters, Dark Jedi and some creature mobs were brutal and unforgiving, and I loved it. It was always a rush.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Yeah. That is why i play them solo mostly.
If people are unhappy with their guild it is 100% their own fault. I don't have any sympathy at all for people who can't find a guild of their liking. Nobody else is responsible for making you happy. That is all on you. People really need to take a look in the mirror on this one and stop blaming other people. If you are surrounded by other players all doing the same thing you are and you don't friend them or even talk to them then it is your own fault. It doesn't pay to be shy in an MMO. Getting a good guild is like getting a girl friend. You got to learn to hustle. Nobody is going to want to be around a socially awkward cold fish who expects other people to entertain them.
You want to change the world you got to change yourself first. Be out going and make that first step. Friend people in your pug group. If you see any of them online the next day ask them to group again. Talk to them, ask them what they are doing and offer to join them or ask them to join you. Another big step is make your own group. Too many times have I seen half a dozen players spaming they are LFG and no one takes the initiative to make the first group. Make the group every day and try to invite the same people. You will be surprised how quickly you make friends. Guilds naturally start off as a circle of friends and then slowly bring others into the fold.
The worst kind of guilds are those that require a certain stat to join and are full of elitism. Avoid those like the plague but too many times players are attracted to those guilds like flies to a bug zapper. When you base a guild around a stat instead of a core group of friends you end up with socially dead guild of people that never talk to each other. These never last long and lead to rapid burn out of players who join them.
I think at what you are seeing it is natural. Back in the day where the hardcore PvP crowd was not only niche but also the only financial option for companies out there, you would have legions with pride and/without honor. There was a sense of competition. These days competition is not required anymore because mmorpgs are becoming solo-based so there is no need to seek for a small gaming community within the game.
Not that I was ever the big social type. I prefer to make my own legion and be the only one there and I like it like that.
Drama-free, no one is bossing me around, no must-dos-and-have-to-do. I can do whatever I want however I want it without explaining my self to anyone. I feel at peace, I am at peace.
http://massauthority.blogspot.co.uk/
yeah. That is why LFD is good in games.
May be the point is that people don't like to social that much, and hence if you don't have reward, few cares enough to form a guild.
The only guild I stayed with for any length of time in WoW was the one I co-founded with friends on a forum before any of us had re-rolled. Previously, I'd been recruited in-game a few times, but found the guilds to largely be ghost-towns or overly populated to the point where you never saw the same people logged on twice. And then there was the guild that proved to be a harem of sorts, with one male toon being fawned over by simpering females who literally cooed and giggled at his every word. So awkward!
I'm curious as to how the "good" guilds (friendly, active, fun to chat/group with, drama-free, not horribly elitist, etc) go about making themselves known, so to speak. If they're interested in recruiting new members, are the official game forums generally the go-to? Or do they actively look for people in-game?
Actually, what I don't want to do is socialize with the common masses I find in LFD tools, and so insulate myself from them by only running dungeons with my guildmates, without exception.
I haven't run an open PUG for PVE in many years (I think Catacombs expansion of WOW was last time) and that much vaunted solo content you speak of has been a blessing in my case when my guild has not been available.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Our guild was actually formed back in '09 because we wanted the family feeling the OP described. I cannot speak for the other guilds, but we primarily use official game forums when applicable (we-are a one-game guild). We are happy when we find members in-game that are looking for a guild like us, however that is not as common. We also use fan sites when official game forums are not up and running yet.
Guilds were typically for helping each other out on quests or PvP, especially with the holy trinity in place.
It was far easier to find a tank or healer in your guild, plus you got someone you trusted to do the job
With so many solo friendly MMOs now, and no holy trinity, there's no need for guilds