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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting Must Meet Big Expectations

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,619MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Crafting is an essential part of the MMO experience for many players and no game is under a bigger onus to "do it right" than Elder Scrolls Online. We take a look at what has been revealed so far with regard to crafting in our latest ESO column. See what we have to say before letting us know what you expect from the crafting system in the comments.

I personally would love an MMO that gave you basic item drops in the beginning and then only had NPCs drop materials from level five on. This would truly force your character to craft their own personal weapons and armor, or buy from other players. But enough about that, let’s take a look back at what ZeniMax has revealed as far as crafting goes. Here is a lost of the crafting professions: Provisioner, Armorsmith, Weaponsmith, Alchemist, and Enchanter. All of these seem very promising for making extremely useful items in game. Too many MMOs drop the ball by making crafting an afterthought. I think ESO should make it the absolutely epicenter of its online economy. Seriously, if you are going to have a subscription based game, then make crafting the centerpiece.

Read more of Garrett Fuller's Elder Scrolls Online: Crafting Must Meet Big Expectations.

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Skyrim’s amazing Daedric Armor!

Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon

    "I have never been one for crafting in MMOs. Quite honestly, I usually go to the marketplace and buy the best stuff I can find. It makes things easier and I don’t have to waste time making useless stuff. My approach to crafting somehow changed drastically with one game, Skyrim. For some reason in Skyrim I took my Blacksmithing and Enchanting all the way to max levels and got every single recipe I possibly could to make some amazing epic weapons and armor."

     

    Are you me?!?!!?

     

    I'm the same way. Despise crafting. Long ago, in a Neverwinter Nights character mod I discovered I could mix and match all the parts that were in the game and spent hours designing my character's armor.

    In skyrim I got my crafting and enchanting to the maximum. Yet in every mmo I bypass it and buy it from players.

    I agree, it would be great to either buy from players or craft armor that was worth something, with a look that we wanted.

    I'm adopting a "wait and see" stance with ESO.

  • RaquisRaquis hartenbosPosts: 536Member Common

    crafting in skyrim was easy but I only crafted cause I had a money mod.

    ill try it in ESO but in GW2 and FFXIV it did not work.

    in guild wars 2 it took too long or you had to be very good at it and in

    final fantacy online new one I just wasted my money.

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    I also hate that crafters in many of the popular MMOs are expected to participate in high end raids to earn high end recipes and materials. I'd rather go on an epic, time consuming quest for a specific rare material component. But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    In ESO I'm really hoping that A) we can use the things we craft even at low skill levels, and B) we're not required to raid to craft the best items in the game.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49
    But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

     

     

    hmmm I can't say I share that opinion.

    Though my thought is that crafters should pay "Adventurers" for these high end mats that you would then turn into rare weapons and then charge for a profit.

    In Lineage 2 people used to farm mats in certain areas and set up shop to sell to players who wanted these mats. They woudl make money and the crafters would make some amazing items with them.

  • spawn12345spawn12345 MalmöPosts: 139Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    I also hate that crafters in many of the popular MMOs are expected to participate in high end raids to earn high end recipes and materials. I'd rather go on an epic, time consuming quest for a specific rare material component. But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    In ESO I'm really hoping that A) we can use the things we craft even at low skill levels, and B) we're not required to raid to craft the best items in the game.

     

    QFT!

    I hate that almost all crafting things we can make are completely useless until you are maxed. Its just feels meh when I can play for 10 min or buy something of the ah for cheap instead of spending 1 hour gathering and crafting a thing that is less usefull.

    This is why I avoid crafting like a plague.

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,789Member Uncommon

    Well the first thing to change would be this.

     

    Don't have a billion and a half randomly and minutely scaled pieces of equipment that exist entirely separate from one another.

     

    This isn't to say don't have a wide array of RNG loot. Just that you should build it in a different way.

     

    Skyrim is not a complex one, but it's a decent example to reference.

     

    Having some tiers of common to uncommon items that possess a general scale. The important part right here is this. The items you can loot are the same things for the most part as the items you craft. The core variances and quality of the gear can be largely defined by the type, and the details can be defined by the modifiers.

     

    When you find gear you should be able to break it down to recover components you can then turn around and use to craft custom gear or tailor existing gear into a more personalized/desirable state.

     

    It makes sense to me that some of the more novel craft materials should be more rare. I do not think that anything to make gear should be notably rare (the exception being the creation of items meant to be unique in their nature, it'd be neat to introduce the high end gear in the game as crafted items rather than looted one), but I do think anything that adds specific modifiers or stat values should have a scarcity to them. The more novel a bonus the material adds, the more rare it should be.

     

    Personalization is pretty much the name of the game. Removing the clutter of useless junk and adding more choice to the mix. Giving people the freedom to pick from a uniform tier of equipment, tweak it's aesthetics to your preferences, and tweak it's stats accordingly too.

     

    Surprisingly. That seems to be in a large part what ESO is doing.

     

    EDIT: Think that's the first thing (that I consider) positive I have said about the game. They are addressing the issues I originally perceived with the title which is nice to see and promising for an entertaining experience to have over many hours.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon

    In a themepark game, which is what ESO is, crafting is useless.  The whole point of these games are leveling, then doing end game content and getting loot.  That is what ESO has to offer.

     

    Crafting will be just as useless in ESO as it is in every other themepark MMO.

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    I also hate that crafters in many of the popular MMOs are expected to participate in high end raids to earn high end recipes and materials. I'd rather go on an epic, time consuming quest for a specific rare material component. But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    In ESO I'm really hoping that A) we can use the things we craft even at low skill levels, and B) we're not required to raid to craft the best items in the game.

     

    But...don't you do that with raiding? You spend 4-6 hours in a raid for hopes that some special drop happens - and at the same time we crafters have to deal with the elitism of the raiding community. I refuse to go on raids for crafting recipes for that reason alone.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • Stone_FountainStone_Fountain Berkley, MIPosts: 226Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    In a themepark game, which is what ESO is, crafting is useless.  The whole point of these games are leveling, then doing end game content and getting loot.  That is what ESO has to offer.

     

    Crafting will be just as useless in ESO as it is in every other themepark MMO.

    Have you seen the gameplay video? PVP will be exciting as its group strategy and skill vs proximity and click. Exploring is encouraged and if crafting is anything like Skyrim, it will be a welcome change compared to recent games. 

     

    In Skyrim, you did have some lore items that you found but also just regular mundane and magical items akin to DDO. (random magical effects) Not daily quests you did for tokens to buy items like in SWTOR. You can craft items based on skill and components, then modify them to make them powerful. Enchanters will play an important role here as well as the Provisioners. 

     

    Armorers make the armor, but alchemists make potions to boost ability and enchanters make the magical effects also boosted by alchemy. I would imagine provisioners make food and drinks to boost healing, endurance etc. So pretty much everyone will have something to make if they want to. I do not know if all crafting will be open to everyone or not. 

     

    I understand the detractors. Some people just do not identify with the ES lore and world just like I do not with the FF crowd. But ESO looks pretty darn good. Graphics, gameplay and AI all look fun to me, so it's a start.

    First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999

  • SatyrosSatyros Posts: 134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    I also hate that crafters in many of the popular MMOs are expected to participate in high end raids to earn high end recipes and materials. I'd rather go on an epic, time consuming quest for a specific rare material component. But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    In ESO I'm really hoping that A) we can use the things we craft even at low skill levels, and B) we're not required to raid to craft the best items in the game.

     

     

    Agreed. And C.. Don't make the crafting system exactly like every single mmo has since forever.. Click on recipe, learn recipe, click on create. Boom. OMFG so 'exciting' !!

    Neverwinter made some shy steps forward with a new idea. We need something new, not polished but old.

  • Stone_FountainStone_Fountain Berkley, MIPosts: 226Member Uncommon
    I invite people to give Skyrim or Oblivion a try. ESO is supposed to be alot like these with great graphics and voice acting to boot.

    First PC Game: Pool of Radiance July 10th, 1990. First MMO: Everquest April 23, 1999

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,278Member Uncommon

    "I personally would love an MMO that gave you basic item drops in the beginning and then only had NPCs drop materials from level five on."

     

    This is how Wushu does it. During the tutroial you get some low quality pieces to ware. After that mobs and quest (both optional) do not drop any gear of any sort. It's all recipes and some materials. This creates true player driven economies. I hope ESO follows suite.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAPosts: 18,460Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    In a themepark game, which is what ESO is, crafting is useless.  The whole point of these games are leveling, then doing end game content and getting loot.  That is what ESO has to offer.

     

    Crafting will be just as useless in ESO as it is in every other themepark MMO.

    I think you actually need to read their articles on crafting because what you just done is "said things" based on your past experience and not the articles they have posted.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/20/elder-scrolls-online-elaborates-on-crafting-and-exploration/

     

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/7226/Elder-Scrolls-Online-Crafting-in-Tamriel-Revealed.html

    Top Level Items Crafting

    Crafting is a very important part of Elder Scrolls Online. Your character can start mastering any crafting profession at low levels and all crafted items are useful at any level. But Top level items can be crafted after you become a real master in your profession. There are top level items that can be received through crafting only. You can create top level armor and weapons; you can enchant your gear making it even better. Crafting at high levels is very interesting and beneficial.

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/end-game-content

     

     
  • SatyrosSatyros Posts: 134Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by koboldfodder

    In a themepark game, which is what ESO is, crafting is useless.  The whole point of these games are leveling, then doing end game content and getting loot.  That is what ESO has to offer.

     

    Crafting will be just as useless in ESO as it is in every other themepark MMO.

     

     

    In every single thread..

    He/she learned the terms "sandbox" and "themepark" a month before and suddenly he/she's an expert.      

                                                                                                                            

    Either something is themepark, or it's sandbox. And the only existent colors are black and white. Obviously.

     

    Let's grab our pitchforks and go burn Wildfire CEO's hourse to the ground! It's both an FPS AND an MMO.. SACRILEGE I SAY!

  • qwerhelixqwerhelix MarijampolePosts: 6Member
    Lineage 2 crafting is the best in mmo. in l2 crafting is so important and its blend into game very well. yeah l2 is grind game but still one of the best mmo. (im not talking about GOD, gracia and so on) interlude was the best
  • Riposte.ThisRiposte.This Toronto, ONPosts: 192Member
    Clearly, not enough people have played Everquest 2 and done their crafting. There are raiding recipes as well, but they can be traded, so the raiders can raid, get the recipe, and give it to their guild mates who are crafters.

    Killing dragons is my shit

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by rygard49
    But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    hmmm I can't say I share that opinion.

    Though my thought is that crafters should pay "Adventurers" for these high end mats that you would then turn into rare weapons and then charge for a profit.

    In Lineage 2 people used to farm mats in certain areas and set up shop to sell to players who wanted these mats. They woudl make money and the crafters would make some amazing items with them.

    That would only work if no gear or items drop from the raids and dungeons, only materials. And if they only drop in raids, then only the powerful guilds control the entire game. It can work in a pvp game, especially with durability or item loss, but it is horrible for a pve centric game.

    Raiding as the sole fountain for progression is one of the key factors holding this genre back. It's such a one-dimensional repetitive activity. With a single type of primary fountain in the game from which spews the nicest items, all other systems are rendered useless unless they support getting access to and drops from that fountain.  All crafting items with "raid components" does at that point is add another layer of useless grind.

     

  • RateroRatero Tallassee, ALPosts: 337Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rygard49

    MMO crafting has always been a meaningless money sink until the very last skill points were gained. I hate that.

    I also hate that crafters in many of the popular MMOs are expected to participate in high end raids to earn high end recipes and materials. I'd rather go on an epic, time consuming quest for a specific rare material component. But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

    In ESO I'm really hoping that A) we can use the things we craft even at low skill levels, and B) we're not required to raid to craft the best items in the game.

     

    One of the reasons it was meaningless was that people skyrocketed up to max level over knight and they had no need for anything other than max level crafted items.  If games would take the long road approach so that it took several months or even years to approach max level then crafting would be more rewarding and have much more impact on the game.

     

    Ratero.

  • ThorzonThorzon Pleasanton, TXPosts: 1Member

    I totally agree.  Crafting, at ALL levels should be relevant and usefull!

    I loved crafting in the old SWG MMO...the best items were crafted, not looted.

     

  • rygard49rygard49 Huntington Beach, CAPosts: 975Member
    Originally posted by Sovrath
    Originally posted by rygard49
    But to require that I gather a large group of other players together to kill monsters for hours at a time for a chance that the material will drop randomly and another chance that I'll roll appropriately high enough to win said material... that simply kills my desire to craft.

     

     

    hmmm I can't say I share that opinion.

    Though my thought is that crafters should pay "Adventurers" for these high end mats that you would then turn into rare weapons and then charge for a profit.

    In Lineage 2 people used to farm mats in certain areas and set up shop to sell to players who wanted these mats. They woudl make money and the crafters would make some amazing items with them.

    I wouldn't have any problem with Adventurers going out and finding those rare materials to bring back to me. That makes perfect sense. But in a lot of these games the recipes and materials are soulbound to whomever loots them.

    That's what I'd like to see broken away from in ESO, is the requirement that I participate in raiding myself if I want to have a chance to be a high level craftsman.

  • TaraSojournTaraSojourn LITTLE FALLS, NYPosts: 5Member

    Everyone is talking about how crafting in other mmos is a money pit and was a waste of time. and I say.......Starwars Galaxy folks. STARWARS FIGGIN GALAXY!!!!

    Come on, I know the game ended 2 years ago, but ppl still have to remember it. SWG had the most innovative, involved and robust crafting system since crafting first showed up in online gaming. It created one of the best, player driven, game economies ever. Heck! Crafting was a friggin CLASS!!! When done right and given the same attention that developers give combat and exploration, crafting can be the reason tons of players (many the casual kind) will come back to a game over and over.

    I so wish, the ESO developers had looked around and asked what players, like myself, would have wanted to see in a crafting system. I am sure, hands down, the response would have been to use the SWG model.

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,789Member Uncommon
    I'd reference Saga of Ryzom as having one of the better crafting systems in an MMO too.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • mech4221mech4221 Mesa, AZPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by Deivos
    I'd reference Saga of Ryzom as having one of the better crafting systems in an MMO too.

    I'd have to vote swg,ryzom and wurm for best/most engaging crafting.  I hear good things about crafting in Eve too, but haven't played. Afk crafting ( lotro,rift ) and mini-game based craftin (eq2, vanguard) just don't interest me as much as a good, research based system.  Low level items (nails) should be used in higher level items(boat) as well.  This helps give lower lil crafters a market.  Also mats with only 2 quality levels (normal and high-quality) are getting old. Be nice to see at least 5 or 6 quality Levels for a change.

  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXPosts: 198Member

    I'm waiting for someone to make a crafting system that didn't involve massive repetition regardless how complex it is (say FF14) its still based on insane amounts of repetitiveness to level.

    I would prefer a crafting system that involved crafting and harvesting thousands of less items to achieve greatness and that instead relied more on discovery of ingredients through exploration and creation.

  • AbdarAbdar Thunder Bay, ONPosts: 400Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TaraSojourn

    Everyone is talking about how crafting in other mmos is a money pit and was a waste of time. and I say.......Starwars Galaxy folks. STARWARS FIGGIN GALAXY!!!!

    Come on, I know the game ended 2 years ago, but ppl still have to remember it. SWG had the most innovative, involved and robust crafting system since crafting first showed up in online gaming. It created one of the best, player driven, game economies ever. Heck! Crafting was a friggin CLASS!!! When done right and given the same attention that developers give combat and exploration, crafting can be the reason tons of players (many the casual kind) will come back to a game over and over.

    I so wish, the ESO developers had looked around and asked what players, like myself, would have wanted to see in a crafting system. I am sure, hands down, the response would have been to use the SWG model.

     

    This ^^  that games crafting (and gathering) were the best I've ever played.
     
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