Source is every AAAA game ever released. none will or have every been ftp. Its a common business practice to insure profits for stock holders and income not just roll the dice.
Your "source" does not imply anything you said, on the contrary - if P2P game makes more money after switching to F2P, it means people are not into P2P.
You probably missed the part where I pointed out that you will never know how many subs your P2P game will have. It is no difference from F2P.
You never know what your profits will be. You can only guess, no assurance there.
Then again, SWTOR and GW2 alone easily make up for most of WoW lost subs.
Originally posted by ray12k
Their is know advantage of releasing a ftp game. They are released so people buy ingame items. Most people regret their purchases.
...most people regretting their purchase is another of your "facts"?
"F2P" do not rely on more people playing on them to make them more profitable. They instead rely on a smaller percentage of the population willing to pay for everyone else to play the game.
They are called whales by some. Much like sea faring cultures before, the modern marketer has learned exactly how to farm said whales. These are the guys and gals willing to pay large amounts for content they deem "exclusive" or cool and have too much disposable income.
Many game designers HATE this and several have gone to kickstarter and other revenue models in an effort to avoid it. (Although many, like RSI/Star Citizen are feeding on whales at unbelievable rate.). It forces them to design content around baiting whales rather than focusing on enjoyable content.
All of this has nothing to do with the simple premise that there does exist a nice player pool looking for a challenge rather than a glittery and constant reward ceremony about how great the player is for overcoming content a 6 year old could complete.
Can anybody point me towards a source that shows the MMO genre is increasing? Also I'd be curious to know what games they're including... specifically if they're including MOBAs.
Even if the genre is increasing, I don't think that is necessarily evidence of anything, certainly not evidence that they're good. But I am curious to see the numbers because a lot of people throw that fact around without backing it up.
Back when "old school" MMOs were at their top - EQ, UO and AC1 - less than a million total players for all of them.
Narius, if you look at that graph you posted, there's a really interesting dip that seems to move on a consistent 10-11 month cycle. I'm curious what causes that.
The dip right before the peak? I would guess that the peak is Xmas holidays, and the dip is finals before that.
I suspect one reason for the growth of MMOS is more to them including overly broad definitions such as MOBAs and the like which would misrepresent the point people are trying to make, which is traditional MMORPGs as properly defined appear to be in decline, at least after the first 3 months or so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by LoktofeitOriginally posted by nariusseldonOriginally posted by Neo_ViperOriginally posted by HolophonistCan anybody point me towards a source that shows the MMO genre is increasing? Also I'd be curious to know what games they're including... specifically if they're including MOBAs.Even if the genre is increasing, I don't think that is necessarily evidence of anything, certainly not evidence that they're good. But I am curious to see the numbers because a lot of people throw that fact around without backing it up.
I was thinking it might have something to do with the development cycle itself. It just works out that every ten or eleven months a new MMORPG is released or announced, and there's a dip in the population of other MMORPGs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Kyleran I suspect one reason for the growth of MMOS is more to them including overly broad definitions such as MOBAs and the like which would misrepresent the point people are trying to make, which is traditional MMORPGs as properly defined appear to be in decline, at least after the first 3 months or so.
No doubt MOBAs are now more popular than traditional MMORPGs. May be that is where the market is going ... traditional MMORPGs are going to die, and replace by MOBA and other games that have MMO elements, but are different.
It seems that innovation works, as long as devs innovate out of having a traditional MMORPG.
Originally posted by Kyleran I suspect one reason for the growth of MMOS is more to them including overly broad definitions such as MOBAs and the like which would misrepresent the point people are trying to make, which is traditional MMORPGs as properly defined appear to be in decline, at least after the first 3 months or so.
That's what I've been wondering as well. Not surprisingly I haven't gotten a response to my post on the previous page. I don't know exactly what's being counted but IF mobas are being counted... that really does make the claim that MMOs are getting more popular complete nonsense. LoL alone probably has like 30 million players or something ridiculous. It's literally the most popular game of all time... and it's not an MMO.
Comparing numbers from the past to now is nonsense because the situations were different. There essentially wasn't even wide spread personal broadband internet for a lot of it. Online gaming wasn't even popularized back then
Again the only thing that can prove that older style MMORPG's would work or not is to make "quality" one and see what happens.
Originally posted by ThomasN7 Probably one of the biggest reason why mmos fail so hard these days. There is no challenge, everything can be bought from a cash shop nowadays and everything is so simplified so everyone's grandmother can understand how to play. It really is quite laughable what developers think of us as gamers. They think we are so stupid that every time they make a game they need to re-teach us how to play. Really ? Listen up devs, we aren't stupid, we been playing mmos probably a lot longer than most of you out there. You guys lack so much vision on what mmos should be and you only worry about your quarterly earnings.
Since vanilla WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers. Lotro, Aion, Age of Conan, The Secret World, Warhammer Online, Defiance, Rift, Free Realms, GW2, The Old Republic , Tera and I'm probably missing a few but feel free to add on to some more mmo failures. Guess what all these have in common, they had all had good launches but long term they have failed so miserably. Within 3-6 months just about every mmo I mentioned has had no staying power whatsoever.
Think about that. Developers spend 5-7 years making a theme park mmos just so it can fail 6 months down the road. That is a whole lot of wasted time and 75% of the time these mmos haven't even made a profit within a 6 month period. Sad isn't it ?
I think for me personally I am almost done with mmos. I'm waiting for Destiny and The Division to come to console. I'm not sure I want to waste more money on games that have no longevity to them. Quality > quantity.
Thomas this is true sir. I just simply long for the day where I can once again fully envelop myself in a fantasy world. I haven't experienced that feeling in so long, since SWG actually. It's sad.
If you haven't already, you may want to look into The Repopulation.
You know why?It is because people with patience or in no rush,usually don't complain they just play.Those that are always in a rush complain.
So you have one type of gamer always whining,then how does a developer answer those who lay claim to having no time to play?We don't operate like that in real life,if someone does not have time to play on a sports team,they simply don't play.Leagues don't change the rules or sport to cater to other people,they make changes for the good of the game not for individuals.
So developers already have the patient gamer's locked in,then they proceed to draw in the lazy or impatient.That is how you end up with a game like Wow,98% soloing then 2% of the game is raiding.
A game should not cater to anyone,it should contain a realistic universe full of unpredictability,not full of scripted dungeons and bosses you know exactly what they are going to do.you should sometimes run into a mob of creatures,other times maybe 1 or 2.
Unpredictable content makes it fun to replay instead of repeating the exact same sequences during combat.It also keeps everyone thinking,that keeps the elitist from telling you exactly how to beat a boss,keeps everyone on an even keel.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
You know why?It is because people with patience or in no rush,usually don't complain they just play.Those that are always in a rush complain.
So you have one type of gamer always whining,then how does a developer answer those who lay claim to having no time to play?We don't operate like that in real life,if someone does not have time to play on a sports team,they simply don't play.Leagues don't change the rules or sport to cater to other people,they make changes for the good of the game not for individuals.
So developers already have the patient gamer's locked in,then they proceed to draw in the lazy or impatient.That is how you end up with a game like Wow,98% soloing then 2% of the game is raiding.
A game should not cater to anyone,it should contain a realistic universe full of unpredictability,not full of scripted dungeons and bosses you know exactly what they are going to do.you should sometimes run into a mob of creatures,other times maybe 1 or 2.
Unpredictable content makes it fun to replay instead of repeating the exact same sequences during combat.It also keeps everyone thinking,that keeps the elitist from telling you exactly how to beat a boss,keeps everyone on an even keel.
I totally agree. Though there are many on these forums that will swear up and down that developers never make games based on principles or a desire to make a good game, that it's always based on what's going to yield them the most customers. Personally I think it's a pathetic lie, because once you admit that companies do indeed have a choice between making a game they think is good and making a game that will just appeal to the most people, it's not hard to make the case that we've moved more towards the latter in the last 10 years or so.
Originally posted by Wizardry You know why?It is because people with patience or in no rush,usually don't complain they just play.Those that are always in a rush complain.So you have one type of gamer always whining,then how does a developer answer those who lay claim to having no time to play?We don't operate like that in real life,if someone does not have time to play on a sports team,they simply don't play.Leagues don't change the rules or sport to cater to other people,they make changes for the good of the game not for individuals.So developers already have the patient gamer's locked in,then they proceed to draw in the lazy or impatient.That is how you end up with a game like Wow,98% soloing then 2% of the game is raiding.A game should not cater to anyone,it should contain a realistic universe full of unpredictability,not full of scripted dungeons and bosses you know exactly what they are going to do.you should sometimes run into a mob of creatures,other times maybe 1 or 2.Unpredictable content makes it fun to replay instead of repeating the exact same sequences during combat.It also keeps everyone thinking,that keeps the elitist from telling you exactly how to beat a boss,keeps everyone on an even keel.
Sports franchises aren't selling themselves to the players, the players are selling themselves to the sports franchises. Sports franchises are selling themselves to the viewers, and they do adjust their content based on what the viewers want to see. Complaints of "faster football" over the past few years will sound familiar to anyone who watches football and plays MMORPGs.
Developers do not decide what markets exist by creating games. The players decide what markets exist by deciding which games they'll buy. The "right" thing doesn't exist. There's only the thing that allows the games to survive or thrive by feeding the players what they want. If your idea of a random or dynamic game doesn't cater to someone, then the game isn't going to last very long, unless it can survive on a small amount of income.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Wizardry You know why?It is because people with patience or in no rush,usually don't complain they just play.Those that are always in a rush complain.
So you have one type of gamer always whining,then how does a developer answer those who lay claim to having no time to play?We don't operate like that in real life,if someone does not have time to play on a sports team,they simply don't play.Leagues don't change the rules or sport to cater to other people,they make changes for the good of the game not for individuals.
So developers already have the patient gamer's locked in,then they proceed to draw in the lazy or impatient.That is how you end up with a game like Wow,98% soloing then 2% of the game is raiding.
A game should not cater to anyone,it should contain a realistic universe full of unpredictability,not full of scripted dungeons and bosses you know exactly what they are going to do.you should sometimes run into a mob of creatures,other times maybe 1 or 2.
Unpredictable content makes it fun to replay instead of repeating the exact same sequences during combat.It also keeps everyone thinking,that keeps the elitist from telling you exactly how to beat a boss,keeps everyone on an even keel.
Sports franchises aren't selling themselves to the players, the players are selling themselves to the sports franchises. Sports franchises are selling themselves to the viewers, and they do adjust their content based on what the viewers want to see. Complaints of "faster football" over the past few years will sound familiar to anyone who watches football and plays MMORPGs.
Developers do not decide what markets exist by creating games. The players decide what markets exist by deciding which games they'll buy. The "right" thing doesn't exist. There's only the thing that allows the games to survive or thrive by feeding the players what they want. If your idea of a random or dynamic game doesn't cater to someone, then the game isn't going to last very long, unless it can survive on a small amount of income.
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Since the players pay the developer's salary and put food on their table, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Since the players pay the developer's salary and put food on their table, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
What if what the customers want are things that make the game more enjoyable in the short run, but ultimately make it worse/less satisfying etc? Think of using cheat codes in an oldschool single player game.
We can't put all the blame on developers. I believe there ARE developers that are interested in making MMORPG's that are more challenging. But MMORPG's are expensive to make and it's hard to find funding to back an MMO that doesn't cater to large numbers of players. The MMORPG died when it became a mainstream genre. I'm sure we'll see "good" MMORPG's again someday but I wouldn't hold my breath because they also take a long time to develop.
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Since the players pay the developer's salary and put food on their table, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
What if what the customers want are things that make the game more enjoyable in the short run, but ultimately make it worse/less satisfying etc? Think of using cheat codes in an oldschool single player game.
If short fun is what customers want, why not give it to them?
In fact, many MMO devs are doing so.
Cheat codes .. not everyone use it. It is a lot less popular than solo-focus, short term MMOs.
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Since the players pay the developer's salary and put food on their table, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
What if what the customers want are things that make the game more enjoyable in the short run, but ultimately make it worse/less satisfying etc? Think of using cheat codes in an oldschool single player game.
If short fun is what customers want, why not give it to them?
In fact, many MMO devs are doing so.
Cheat codes .. not everyone use it. It is a lot less popular than solo-focus, short term MMOs.
That's not what I or anybody else said. It's not whether they consciously want short term fun over long term fun, it's about how well players can design games compared to game developers. The cheat code example was meant to illustrate that sometimes things you think you want were held back from you for a reason.
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
are you retarded? wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. Maybe in your mind bubble filled with lolly pops and emoting monkeys can the stats be good news.
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
There's also some recent Superdata Research that you can "$%#@ google" when you have the time.
I stating a fact.... They are not going to other mmorpgs. they are leaving the market. Even if you go blizzards numbers alone...
Showing revenue of one year for all mmos proves what. We are talking about mmorpg. Frckn call of duty is a mmo.... lol
I've really been getting the impression lately that the MMORPG.com definition of "fact" is "my personal unwavering belief."
More like people clinging on to out dated ideas... funny how people keep away from mmorpg genre and group everything up as a mmo.
Lol mario cart is a mmo and cod is one of the top mmos. both of nothing to do with mmorpgs but are included in the numbers u are throwing out.... sorry casual play model was a error the genre fell into. But its a easy fix offer diff. types of servers for a game. normal. double exp and pvp. problem solved...
More like people clinging on to out dated ideas... funny how people keep away from mmorpg genre and group everything up as a mmo. Lol mario cart is a mmo and cod is one of the top mmos. both of nothing to do with mmorpgs but are included in the numbers u are throwing out.... sorry casual play model was a error the genre fell into. But its a easy fix offer diff. types of servers for a game. normal. double exp and pvp. problem solved... haha halo and mincraft mmos well...
How is it an "error" when the genre expands?
Sure, you may not like that LoL is included as a MMO but things change. Genre change. If you don't include new stuff in MMOs, may be you will see MMO just decline and become irrelevant (like text adventures).
You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.
AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever. Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago. I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".
Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.
P.S. If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.
Actually the games you listed have failed and were forced to go ftp to make a ahort lived profit and now are on a decline... good job in writing a opinion and stating it as facts,
Yes the genre has become lame kiddie games made for your average forum crybaby. The truth is many people have started to sit on the side lines and given up on any meaningful game ever being released.
LOL no form of wow was worth playing in my opinion. I mean its pretty sad i have to play A game from the late 90's (asherons call) .
But anyway I agree with the og poster make a game a challenging and you will get more players.
They are still in business, are they not? No game keeps its doors open unless they are profitable. We have become so jaded in respect to the definition of "success". It used to be that if a company was in the black, it was successful, now it's all about maximizing profits beyond what the company earns or deserves and somehow that equates to success. It's such a tragedy that the general public buys into that crap.
I understand and even empathize with the OP in that he feels like the genre has left him behind, but he certainly does not represent nor speak for the majority of gamers with his viewpoints. Yes, I think you guys deserve a new MMO that caters to you every few years, but if you think the genre needs to make a complete shift in that direction, you are not only sadly mistaken, you are going to be perpetually disappointed as well.
It's because millions of people believe they want to play an MMORPG, but in reality they don't. You cannot have a successful long term MMORPG without meaningful grinding. And meaningful grinding isn't fun. But it is rewarding.
No doubt MOBAs are now more popular than traditional MMORPGs. May be that is where the market is going ... traditional MMORPGs are going to die, and replace by MOBA and other games that have MMO elements, but are different.
It seems that innovation works, as long as devs innovate out of having a traditional MMORPG.
I don't buy it. I love MOBA's although I'm a dota guy and not a LoL guy. I still believe however that the MMO is still the ultimate evolution of gaming. As soon as networking and Processing are sufficent to allow people to take games into MMO space without the requisite "dumbing down" of features.
Think of a game like BF3 with 6000 players instead of 60. Think of Eve online with actual ship dogfighting instead of just activating modules. Think of DAOC RvR with full action controls in Ninja Giaden combat where players have to BUILD the keeps and castles, upkeep them, mine the iron and stone, craft the battlements and seigeweapons.
At some point someone will make a game TRULY epic in features and scope. That's what the Genera really needs. Someone to truly realize the power of MMO space. Someone who's willing to make a WORLD instead of a game.
It's because millions of people believe they want to play an MMORPG, but in reality they don't. You cannot have a successful long term MMORPG without meaningful grinding. And meaningful grinding isn't fun. But it is rewarding.
So you suggest that MMORPG should be games designed to be NOT fun.
No wonder that games designed for people who think like that utterly fail...
You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.
AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever. Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago. I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".
Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.
P.S. If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.
How is that fail ? I bet the majority would agree it has been WoW or bust. Can the genre be great again ? Sure it can but not the path they have chosen.
Why? Because players like you don't like it? There are more people in the world than so-called 'hardcore' players, many more. This is the truth of it. A game will NEVER make money based on 'hardcore' players. You need to bring new players into the game and MMO's in general. If you don't do that - the industry will die.
Comments
"F2P" do not rely on more people playing on them to make them more profitable. They instead rely on a smaller percentage of the population willing to pay for everyone else to play the game.
They are called whales by some. Much like sea faring cultures before, the modern marketer has learned exactly how to farm said whales. These are the guys and gals willing to pay large amounts for content they deem "exclusive" or cool and have too much disposable income.
Many game designers HATE this and several have gone to kickstarter and other revenue models in an effort to avoid it. (Although many, like RSI/Star Citizen are feeding on whales at unbelievable rate.). It forces them to design content around baiting whales rather than focusing on enjoyable content.
All of this has nothing to do with the simple premise that there does exist a nice player pool looking for a challenge rather than a glittery and constant reward ceremony about how great the player is for overcoming content a 6 year old could complete.
The dip right before the peak? I would guess that the peak is Xmas holidays, and the dip is finals before that.
There is no reason we cant have both
MMOs that are easy for the masses, and MMOs that are hardcore like EVE
I think the Devs are starting to get it, we will see more hardcore MMOs in a few years
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-free-to-play-does-it-pay-to-switch/ Just look at the graph.
See also: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/192916/Global_Games_Market_Grows_6_to_704bn_in_2013.php "14% year-on-year growth for MMO games, totaling $14.9 billion." Narius, if you look at that graph you posted, there's a really interesting dip that seems to move on a consistent 10-11 month cycle. I'm curious what causes that.
The dip right before the peak? I would guess that the peak is Xmas holidays, and the dip is finals before that.
I was thinking it might have something to do with the development cycle itself. It just works out that every ten or eleven months a new MMORPG is released or announced, and there's a dip in the population of other MMORPGs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No doubt MOBAs are now more popular than traditional MMORPGs. May be that is where the market is going ... traditional MMORPGs are going to die, and replace by MOBA and other games that have MMO elements, but are different.
It seems that innovation works, as long as devs innovate out of having a traditional MMORPG.
That's what I've been wondering as well. Not surprisingly I haven't gotten a response to my post on the previous page. I don't know exactly what's being counted but IF mobas are being counted... that really does make the claim that MMOs are getting more popular complete nonsense. LoL alone probably has like 30 million players or something ridiculous. It's literally the most popular game of all time... and it's not an MMO.
Comparing numbers from the past to now is nonsense because the situations were different. There essentially wasn't even wide spread personal broadband internet for a lot of it. Online gaming wasn't even popularized back then
Again the only thing that can prove that older style MMORPG's would work or not is to make "quality" one and see what happens.
If you haven't already, you may want to look into The Repopulation.
You know why?It is because people with patience or in no rush,usually don't complain they just play.Those that are always in a rush complain.
So you have one type of gamer always whining,then how does a developer answer those who lay claim to having no time to play?We don't operate like that in real life,if someone does not have time to play on a sports team,they simply don't play.Leagues don't change the rules or sport to cater to other people,they make changes for the good of the game not for individuals.
So developers already have the patient gamer's locked in,then they proceed to draw in the lazy or impatient.That is how you end up with a game like Wow,98% soloing then 2% of the game is raiding.
A game should not cater to anyone,it should contain a realistic universe full of unpredictability,not full of scripted dungeons and bosses you know exactly what they are going to do.you should sometimes run into a mob of creatures,other times maybe 1 or 2.
Unpredictable content makes it fun to replay instead of repeating the exact same sequences during combat.It also keeps everyone thinking,that keeps the elitist from telling you exactly how to beat a boss,keeps everyone on an even keel.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I totally agree. Though there are many on these forums that will swear up and down that developers never make games based on principles or a desire to make a good game, that it's always based on what's going to yield them the most customers. Personally I think it's a pathetic lie, because once you admit that companies do indeed have a choice between making a game they think is good and making a game that will just appeal to the most people, it's not hard to make the case that we've moved more towards the latter in the last 10 years or so.
Sports franchises aren't selling themselves to the players, the players are selling themselves to the sports franchises. Sports franchises are selling themselves to the viewers, and they do adjust their content based on what the viewers want to see. Complaints of "faster football" over the past few years will sound familiar to anyone who watches football and plays MMORPGs.
Developers do not decide what markets exist by creating games. The players decide what markets exist by deciding which games they'll buy. The "right" thing doesn't exist. There's only the thing that allows the games to survive or thrive by feeding the players what they want. If your idea of a random or dynamic game doesn't cater to someone, then the game isn't going to last very long, unless it can survive on a small amount of income.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you think developers should always give players exactly what they ask for? Or do you think some decisions are best left out of the hands of players?
Since the players pay the developer's salary and put food on their table, the customer is always right, even when they are wrong.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
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Hope: None
What if what the customers want are things that make the game more enjoyable in the short run, but ultimately make it worse/less satisfying etc? Think of using cheat codes in an oldschool single player game.
Simple answer addressed by Extra Credits awhile back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ56Kia8dTU
We can't put all the blame on developers. I believe there ARE developers that are interested in making MMORPG's that are more challenging. But MMORPG's are expensive to make and it's hard to find funding to back an MMO that doesn't cater to large numbers of players. The MMORPG died when it became a mainstream genre. I'm sure we'll see "good" MMORPG's again someday but I wouldn't hold my breath because they also take a long time to develop.
If short fun is what customers want, why not give it to them?
In fact, many MMO devs are doing so.
Cheat codes .. not everyone use it. It is a lot less popular than solo-focus, short term MMOs.
That's not what I or anybody else said. It's not whether they consciously want short term fun over long term fun, it's about how well players can design games compared to game developers. The cheat code example was meant to illustrate that sometimes things you think you want were held back from you for a reason.
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
are you retarded? wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. Maybe in your mind bubble filled with lolly pops and emoting monkeys can the stats be good news.
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
http://info.globalcollect.com/Portals/141744/docs/GlobalCollect_Global_MMO_Games_Market_report_03.pdf
There's also some recent Superdata Research that you can "$%#@ google" when you have the time.
I stating a fact.... They are not going to other mmorpgs. they are leaving the market. Even if you go blizzards numbers alone...
Showing revenue of one year for all mmos proves what. We are talking about mmorpg. Frckn call of duty is a mmo.... lol
I've really been getting the impression lately that the MMORPG.com definition of "fact" is "my personal unwavering belief."
More like people clinging on to out dated ideas... funny how people keep away from mmorpg genre and group everything up as a mmo.
Lol mario cart is a mmo and cod is one of the top mmos. both of nothing to do with mmorpgs but are included in the numbers u are throwing out.... sorry casual play model was a error the genre fell into. But its a easy fix offer diff. types of servers for a game. normal. double exp and pvp. problem solved...
haha halo and mincraft mmos well...
How is it an "error" when the genre expands?
Sure, you may not like that LoL is included as a MMO but things change. Genre change. If you don't include new stuff in MMOs, may be you will see MMO just decline and become irrelevant (like text adventures).
They are still in business, are they not? No game keeps its doors open unless they are profitable. We have become so jaded in respect to the definition of "success". It used to be that if a company was in the black, it was successful, now it's all about maximizing profits beyond what the company earns or deserves and somehow that equates to success. It's such a tragedy that the general public buys into that crap.
I understand and even empathize with the OP in that he feels like the genre has left him behind, but he certainly does not represent nor speak for the majority of gamers with his viewpoints. Yes, I think you guys deserve a new MMO that caters to you every few years, but if you think the genre needs to make a complete shift in that direction, you are not only sadly mistaken, you are going to be perpetually disappointed as well.
It's because millions of people believe they want to play an MMORPG, but in reality they don't. You cannot have a successful long term MMORPG without meaningful grinding. And meaningful grinding isn't fun. But it is rewarding.
I don't buy it. I love MOBA's although I'm a dota guy and not a LoL guy. I still believe however that the MMO is still the ultimate evolution of gaming. As soon as networking and Processing are sufficent to allow people to take games into MMO space without the requisite "dumbing down" of features.
Think of a game like BF3 with 6000 players instead of 60. Think of Eve online with actual ship dogfighting instead of just activating modules. Think of DAOC RvR with full action controls in Ninja Giaden combat where players have to BUILD the keeps and castles, upkeep them, mine the iron and stone, craft the battlements and seigeweapons.
At some point someone will make a game TRULY epic in features and scope. That's what the Genera really needs. Someone to truly realize the power of MMO space. Someone who's willing to make a WORLD instead of a game.
So you suggest that MMORPG should be games designed to be NOT fun.
No wonder that games designed for people who think like that utterly fail...
My computer is better than yours.
Why? Because players like you don't like it? There are more people in the world than so-called 'hardcore' players, many more. This is the truth of it. A game will NEVER make money based on 'hardcore' players. You need to bring new players into the game and MMO's in general. If you don't do that - the industry will die.