To all the haters..

Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Yes and something different you will get, a different take on the Themepark design.

EQ:N is not a Sandbox no matter how many times they are throwing that word out... that is what irks me personally. I would not have minded if they came out and said,

"We are making the real next Generation Themepark, and here are its 4 grails and here are our plans, and here is the companion Game EQ:L with Sandbox element such as Freeform Housing Building"

But no, they are hammering the Sandbox term over and over...

 

It is not a Sandbox if the central focus is the AI.

It is not a Sanbox if the Story Line guides the Player.

It is not a Sandbox if the players need not bother with what other players are doing in the world.

 

Call a spade a spade, and I will give it a try for as long as it lasts (usually 1 week to 6 months for a Themepark).

 

As for the EQ Lovers, I agree with comment here, they can continue playing EQ. I have no problems with Graphics or Parkour etc..

 

Nothing in your It is not a Sandbox list makes a game a Sandbox or Themepark.You can have all those things you listed in a sandbox or a thempark even storyline.

Read more carefully please and think before you post a retort to someone else's points.

Having a story line is not the same as having a storyline that guides the actions of the player.

Incorrect a sandbox can have a Storyline that guides a player a long a path just in a sandbox the player is free to ignore it without penalty or come back to it later if they choose.

Misleading, you are just describing Open Ended Play.

A Sandbox MMORPG experiece is about Player Inteaction first and foremost. If the action is based upon the AI, then it is Player vs Environment Interaction, bellongs to the Themepark Realm.

Furthermore, since the Sandbox Experience is based on Player Interaction this implies that the actions and decisions of a player have an impact towards another player, and affect their actions and decisions in turn.

In a Themepark it is a very solo experience, once that you can share with others with many of its elemenst but it is an option. I can play WoW from lvl 1 to 85 and never have to talk to a single player, never have to even Care what othe rplayers are doing in the game.

Because the themepark is there to offer the same experience to ll independently of their actions. It is just massive because many other players happen to be playing the same game as I in the same Server. But beyond that ... nothing.

In a Sandbox experience, I may want to find a little island upon which I want to build a Tavern, but low and behold other players maybe interested to hat spot as well. And they may prevent me from doing so. I have to interact with these players I have to deal with them, find an arrangement a compromise or if all fails, just fight them and the strongest prevails.

Very different view, it is focussed aroudn player interaction, none of what I describe in this specific example involves any AI...

It is just us, the players in the Virtual environment using its Tools accoding to own goals.

That is the Sanbox experience.

No that's a Sandbox experience according to you and your likes and biases.TO be a Sandbox only requires tools to effect the world and shape it.Everything you describe are game elements that could be thrown into either a Thempark or Sandbox to make a Thempark or Sandbox GAME.Implementation of those elements may be different in each but they don;t define them.

Hell as Sandbox doesn't even require multiplayer massive or otherwise it can be purely solo.However in a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox with a persistent world for all players on the server then yes all players actions should effect other players and that should naturally encourage interaction positive or otherwise within the game's rule set because all games have rules.

Exactly.

So the problem is not my view. The problem is your view.

We are talking about a Game here but not in the General Broad Sence. We are talking about the Sandbox Experience specific to an MMORPG.

You are incorectly qualifying my view as narrow, because you are incorectly trying to define a Specific type of game with a very General definition.

I am not expressing a view in relation to MINECRAFT...that is a Sandbox Game..but is it  Sandbox MMORPG? No it is not.

EQ:N is an MMORPG..therefore is we are to talk about it being a Sandbox, we have to talk about what is a Sandbox MMORPG not what defines simply a Game as a Sanbox.

And that is the source of your confusion allong many other people.

Just because you will be able to create and Destroy in EQN..that feature/element/mechanism of it, DOES NOT, make it a Sandbox MMORPG.

It is as simple as that.

At most EQ:N as it is now, is a next Generation Themepark, with a couple of Sanbox Elements thrown in.

Stone_Fountain

EvE=Sandbox, WoW=Themepark and No Dewm, do not include yourself when you say 'us'. That just hurts my feelings yo. 

 

This is a MMORPG discussion site. Haters and fanboys alike. EQN has alot of features promised. It's their job to hype their game and get everyone to buy it. Thing is, many of us are not so easily pimped. We've been here before, got the t-shirt, the coffee mug and the poster. From what 'I've' seen so far, they are flaunting their landmark feature and their graphics are...unsatisfactory. (to me anyway) I'm waiting for more information and will adjust my opinion accordingly.

 

I do not have 40+ hours a week to spend on a game, nor am I willing to spend my hard-earned money on at home entertainment when there is an entire world out there. That said, I do engage and spend evening hours playing. I want a great experience and have fun. But not for a only a month then have to do repeatables and wait for content. When they show me that EQN will be better than I expect right now, then I will give them props. Until then it's just marketing to get us interested in their product. 

DamonVile

see....we only have 4 topics.

Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Yes and something different you will get, a different take on the Themepark design.

EQ:N is not a Sandbox no matter how many times they are throwing that word out... that is what irks me personally. I would not have minded if they came out and said,

"We are making the real next Generation Themepark, and here are its 4 grails and here are our plans, and here is the companion Game EQ:L with Sandbox element such as Freeform Housing Building"

But no, they are hammering the Sandbox term over and over...

 

It is not a Sandbox if the central focus is the AI.

It is not a Sanbox if the Story Line guides the Player.

It is not a Sandbox if the players need not bother with what other players are doing in the world.

 

Call a spade a spade, and I will give it a try for as long as it lasts (usually 1 week to 6 months for a Themepark).

 

As for the EQ Lovers, I agree with comment here, they can continue playing EQ. I have no problems with Graphics or Parkour etc..

 

Nothing in your It is not a Sandbox list makes a game a Sandbox or Themepark.You can have all those things you listed in a sandbox or a thempark even storyline.

Read more carefully please and think before you post a retort to someone else's points.

Having a story line is not the same as having a storyline that guides the actions of the player.

Incorrect a sandbox can have a Storyline that guides a player a long a path just in a sandbox the player is free to ignore it without penalty or come back to it later if they choose.

Misleading, you are just describing Open Ended Play.

A Sandbox MMORPG experiece is about Player Inteaction first and foremost. If the action is based upon the AI, then it is Player vs Environment Interaction, bellongs to the Themepark Realm.

Furthermore, since the Sandbox Experience is based on Player Interaction this implies that the actions and decisions of a player have an impact towards another player, and affect their actions and decisions in turn.

In a Themepark it is a very solo experience, once that you can share with others with many of its elemenst but it is an option. I can play WoW from lvl 1 to 85 and never have to talk to a single player, never have to even Care what othe rplayers are doing in the game.

Because the themepark is there to offer the same experience to ll independently of their actions. It is just massive because many other players happen to be playing the same game as I in the same Server. But beyond that ... nothing.

In a Sandbox experience, I may want to find a little island upon which I want to build a Tavern, but low and behold other players maybe interested to hat spot as well. And they may prevent me from doing so. I have to interact with these players I have to deal with them, find an arrangement a compromise or if all fails, just fight them and the strongest prevails.

Very different view, it is focussed aroudn player interaction, none of what I describe in this specific example involves any AI...

It is just us, the players in the Virtual environment using its Tools accoding to own goals.

That is the Sanbox experience.

No that's a Sandbox experience according to you and your likes and biases.TO be a Sandbox only requires tools to effect the world and shape it.Everything you describe are game elements that could be thrown into either a Thempark or Sandbox to make a Thempark or Sandbox GAME.Implementation of those elements may be different in each but they don;t define them.

Hell as Sandbox doesn't even require multiplayer massive or otherwise it can be purely solo.However in a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox with a persistent world for all players on the server then yes all players actions should effect other players and that should naturally encourage interaction positive or otherwise within the game's rule set because all games have rules.

Exactly.

So the problem is not my view. The problem is your view.

We are talking about a Game here but not in the General Broad Sence. We are talking about the Sandbox Experience specific to an MMORPG.

You are incorectly qualifying my view as narrow, because you are incorectly trying to define a Specific type of game with a very General definition.

I am not expressing a view in relation to MINECRAFT...that is a Sandbox Game..but is it  Sandbox MMORPG? No it is not.

EQ:N is an MMORPG..therefore is we are to talk about it being a Sandbox, we have to talk about what is a Sandbox MMORPG not what defines simply a Game as a Sanbox.

And that is the source of your confusion allong many other people.

Just because you will be able to create and Destroy in EQN..that feature/element/mechanism of it, DOES NOT, make it a Sandbox MMORPG.

It is as simple as that.

At most EQ:N as it is now, is a next Generation Themepark, with a couple of Sanbox Elements thrown in.

Nope everything I said applies to MMORPGs,the problem is you don't want to accept that a sandbox MMORPG can be anything outside your definition.A definition that is defined by game features not specific to sandbox or themepark.

Now I'm not saying EQN will end up being a sandbox nor am I saying it will be a Thempark or Sandpark.There is no evidence to say any of those.All we have right now is words and ideals,until I see how those things are implemented,if at all,in practice in the game itself it's not anything.

Betaguy

Originally posted by VassagoMael
Your rant is about six weeks late.

tehehe

Drakynn

Originally posted by DamonVile
see....we only have 4 topics.

Well yeah...apart from FFXIV's relaunch it's a pretty dead time in the MMORPG landscape...sow e go back tot he old standards and spin our wheels waiting for actual interesting news to discuss.

Drakynn

Originally posted by Betaguy

Originally posted by VassagoMael
Your rant is about six weeks late.

tehehe

Yeah I can get behind that...there has been no news to discuss on EQN  so all topics related are six weeks late.

Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Yes and something different you will get, a different take on the Themepark design.

EQ:N is not a Sandbox no matter how many times they are throwing that word out... that is what irks me personally. I would not have minded if they came out and said,

"We are making the real next Generation Themepark, and here are its 4 grails and here are our plans, and here is the companion Game EQ:L with Sandbox element such as Freeform Housing Building"

But no, they are hammering the Sandbox term over and over...

 

It is not a Sandbox if the central focus is the AI.

It is not a Sanbox if the Story Line guides the Player.

It is not a Sandbox if the players need not bother with what other players are doing in the world.

 

Call a spade a spade, and I will give it a try for as long as it lasts (usually 1 week to 6 months for a Themepark).

 

As for the EQ Lovers, I agree with comment here, they can continue playing EQ. I have no problems with Graphics or Parkour etc..

 

Nothing in your It is not a Sandbox list makes a game a Sandbox or Themepark.You can have all those things you listed in a sandbox or a thempark even storyline.

Read more carefully please and think before you post a retort to someone else's points.

Having a story line is not the same as having a storyline that guides the actions of the player.

Incorrect a sandbox can have a Storyline that guides a player a long a path just in a sandbox the player is free to ignore it without penalty or come back to it later if they choose.

Misleading, you are just describing Open Ended Play.

A Sandbox MMORPG experiece is about Player Inteaction first and foremost. If the action is based upon the AI, then it is Player vs Environment Interaction, bellongs to the Themepark Realm.

Furthermore, since the Sandbox Experience is based on Player Interaction this implies that the actions and decisions of a player have an impact towards another player, and affect their actions and decisions in turn.

In a Themepark it is a very solo experience, once that you can share with others with many of its elemenst but it is an option. I can play WoW from lvl 1 to 85 and never have to talk to a single player, never have to even Care what othe rplayers are doing in the game.

Because the themepark is there to offer the same experience to ll independently of their actions. It is just massive because many other players happen to be playing the same game as I in the same Server. But beyond that ... nothing.

In a Sandbox experience, I may want to find a little island upon which I want to build a Tavern, but low and behold other players maybe interested to hat spot as well. And they may prevent me from doing so. I have to interact with these players I have to deal with them, find an arrangement a compromise or if all fails, just fight them and the strongest prevails.

Very different view, it is focussed aroudn player interaction, none of what I describe in this specific example involves any AI...

It is just us, the players in the Virtual environment using its Tools accoding to own goals.

That is the Sanbox experience.

No that's a Sandbox experience according to you and your likes and biases.TO be a Sandbox only requires tools to effect the world and shape it.Everything you describe are game elements that could be thrown into either a Thempark or Sandbox to make a Thempark or Sandbox GAME.Implementation of those elements may be different in each but they don;t define them.

Hell as Sandbox doesn't even require multiplayer massive or otherwise it can be purely solo.However in a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox with a persistent world for all players on the server then yes all players actions should effect other players and that should naturally encourage interaction positive or otherwise within the game's rule set because all games have rules.

Exactly.

So the problem is not my view. The problem is your view.

We are talking about a Game here but not in the General Broad Sence. We are talking about the Sandbox Experience specific to an MMORPG.

You are incorectly qualifying my view as narrow, because you are incorectly trying to define a Specific type of game with a very General definition.

I am not expressing a view in relation to MINECRAFT...that is a Sandbox Game..but is it  Sandbox MMORPG? No it is not.

EQ:N is an MMORPG..therefore is we are to talk about it being a Sandbox, we have to talk about what is a Sandbox MMORPG not what defines simply a Game as a Sanbox.

And that is the source of your confusion allong many other people.

Just because you will be able to create and Destroy in EQN..that feature/element/mechanism of it, DOES NOT, make it a Sandbox MMORPG.

It is as simple as that.

At most EQ:N as it is now, is a next Generation Themepark, with a couple of Sanbox Elements thrown in.

Nope everything I said applies to MMORPGs,the problem is you don't want to accept that a sandbox MMORPG can be anything outside your definition.A definition that is defined by game features not specific to sandbox or themepark.

Now I'm not saying EQN will end up being a sandbox nor am I saying it will be a Thempark or Sandpark.There is no evidence to say any of those.All we have right now is words and ideals,until I see how those things are implemented,if at all,in practice in the game itself it's not anything.

Ok Drakunn, I will respect your wish to take a neatral "lets get more info and form a better opinion down the line" stance. No further argument from me.

Just a reminder, that my original reply and sentiment was in relationst to the statements of the EQ:N devellopers that they are making a Sandbox MMORPG and not yours.

In my opinion, as it stands now, EQ:N is not a Sanbox MMORPG and for the reasons I expressed.

I will as well, wait and see, and echoing the very nice reply from Stone_Fountain..."We've been here before, got the t-shirt, the coffee mug and the poster." ... we been here before many times around, all 16 years of it.

Cheers!

rungard

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Suraknar

Yes and something different you will get, a different take on the Themepark design.

EQ:N is not a Sandbox no matter how many times they are throwing that word out... that is what irks me personally. I would not have minded if they came out and said,

"We are making the real next Generation Themepark, and here are its 4 grails and here are our plans, and here is the companion Game EQ:L with Sandbox element such as Freeform Housing Building"

But no, they are hammering the Sandbox term over and over...

 

It is not a Sandbox if the central focus is the AI.

It is not a Sanbox if the Story Line guides the Player.

It is not a Sandbox if the players need not bother with what other players are doing in the world.

 

Call a spade a spade, and I will give it a try for as long as it lasts (usually 1 week to 6 months for a Themepark).

 

As for the EQ Lovers, I agree with comment here, they can continue playing EQ. I have no problems with Graphics or Parkour etc..

 

Nothing in your It is not a Sandbox list makes a game a Sandbox or Themepark.You can have all those things you listed in a sandbox or a thempark even storyline.

Read more carefully please and think before you post a retort to someone else's points.

Having a story line is not the same as having a storyline that guides the actions of the player.

Incorrect a sandbox can have a Storyline that guides a player a long a path just in a sandbox the player is free to ignore it without penalty or come back to it later if they choose.

Misleading, you are just describing Open Ended Play.

A Sandbox MMORPG experiece is about Player Inteaction first and foremost. If the action is based upon the AI, then it is Player vs Environment Interaction, bellongs to the Themepark Realm.

Furthermore, since the Sandbox Experience is based on Player Interaction this implies that the actions and decisions of a player have an impact towards another player, and affect their actions and decisions in turn.

In a Themepark it is a very solo experience, once that you can share with others with many of its elemenst but it is an option. I can play WoW from lvl 1 to 85 and never have to talk to a single player, never have to even Care what othe rplayers are doing in the game.

Because the themepark is there to offer the same experience to ll independently of their actions. It is just massive because many other players happen to be playing the same game as I in the same Server. But beyond that ... nothing.

In a Sandbox experience, I may want to find a little island upon which I want to build a Tavern, but low and behold other players maybe interested to hat spot as well. And they may prevent me from doing so. I have to interact with these players I have to deal with them, find an arrangement a compromise or if all fails, just fight them and the strongest prevails.

Very different view, it is focussed aroudn player interaction, none of what I describe in this specific example involves any AI...

It is just us, the players in the Virtual environment using its Tools accoding to own goals.

That is the Sanbox experience.

No that's a Sandbox experience according to you and your likes and biases.TO be a Sandbox only requires tools to effect the world and shape it.Everything you describe are game elements that could be thrown into either a Thempark or Sandbox to make a Thempark or Sandbox GAME.Implementation of those elements may be different in each but they don;t define them.

Hell as Sandbox doesn't even require multiplayer massive or otherwise it can be purely solo.However in a Massively Multiplayer Sandbox with a persistent world for all players on the server then yes all players actions should effect other players and that should naturally encourage interaction positive or otherwise within the game's rule set because all games have rules.

Exactly.

So the problem is not my view. The problem is your view.

We are talking about a Game here but not in the General Broad Sence. We are talking about the Sandbox Experience specific to an MMORPG.

You are incorectly qualifying my view as narrow, because you are incorectly trying to define a Specific type of game with a very General definition.

I am not expressing a view in relation to MINECRAFT...that is a Sandbox Game..but is it  Sandbox MMORPG? No it is not.

EQ:N is an MMORPG..therefore is we are to talk about it being a Sandbox, we have to talk about what is a Sandbox MMORPG not what defines simply a Game as a Sanbox.

And that is the source of your confusion allong many other people.

Just because you will be able to create and Destroy in EQN..that feature/element/mechanism of it, DOES NOT, make it a Sandbox MMORPG.

It is as simple as that.

At most EQ:N as it is now, is a next Generation Themepark, with a couple of Sanbox Elements thrown in.

im not confused. I just don't agree. Your narrow view of what is and what isn't can never be attained by anyone other than you. There will always be something wrong with it.

I see 300 players building a city in a game as a sandbox, I see 1 person digging a real mine in a mmoprg as a sandbox.

im not disputing your that your view is your own ideas, but rather than its far too narrow to be useful.

seriously:

destructible environments

creatable structures

complete player involvement even before it ships (Landmark)

open ended class based system that can be heavily modified

no levels

Storybricks technology that gives individualism to npcs

advanced ai that completely destroys the concept of the static encounter

we don't know much about crafting other than it will be very important

 

if I were you I would redefine what a sandbox really is. As far as im concerned it looks dead on so far.  

Amana

There are better ways of framing questions about why people like what they like without baiting their responses or calling people 'haters' and telling them they don't belong.