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[Column] Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn: The FFXIV Economy Issue

BillMurphyBillMurphy Managing EditorBerea, OHPosts: 2,377MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn has some economic issues that need addressing and we're breaking it all down for you in our latest column.

If you want to earn Gil in FFXIV, you’re going to have to interact with the economy in a meaningful player-to-player way.  In theory, this is awesome.  Most modern MMOs eschew the interdependency we found in classic MMOs for a much more solo, selfish approach. Square Enix’s emphasis on interdependency is refreshing, but there are some issues with the implementation.

Read more of Michael Bitton's The FFXIV Economy Issue: Gil Sinks & Gil Fountains.


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Comments

  • beej1986beej1986 Marion, ARPosts: 74Member
    Man I hope they come up with something else besides dailys, they are getting old already in mmos. I'd like to see something more creative.

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  • VassagoMaelVassagoMael Covington, LAPosts: 555Member
    Where is the ARR review or are you guys stuck waiting for a couple of months so that you can buy a digital copy and play with your friends when they unlock servers and reopen digital sales? 

    Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
    Subscription = Actual content updates!

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    Good writeup! Some solid thinking behind it, and looked at from different angles. Looking at your post only, and their comments, I would say they do have a plan set up for the next year or two and can afford a wait and see approach for now. When they see the balance shift, they will have solutions to tip the situation to both sides of the scales. Being that calm in the face of protests give an indication it has been discussed, evaluated and solved on a theoretical basis already, and the next step is already laid out, just waiting for the shift when it is needed. I could be wrong, but often answers get defensive when they are adamant on a direction. Now the feeling I get from their replies is "Just wait and see...."  2 cents, I tip ya!

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon

    Like you already said in Your last part. They did it on purpose. A very smart move.

    It's much easier to repair (read boost) a deflated economy, then trying to repair a completely inflated economy, which is impossible. As has been seen in so many existing MMO's like WoW and EQ2 which both have totally inflated economies.

    And they already made the first adjustments With today's patch, by significantly lowering the repair costs and costs of Dark Matter!

    Next step will be the addition of Daily Quests that should come With the 2.1 patch.

    In a future patch, when necessary they can and will adjust leve gil rewards.

    This is a much better approach, to be careful and keep the reign on the Gil fountain at launch, which will also significantly reduce the negative effect With exploits that always tend to pop up shortly after launch!

     
  • DrakhaDrakha Madison, WIPosts: 28Member
    They already announced their going to reduce repair costs.In fact it was in the gear score incoming article on this site.Also I'm sure all the gil sellers (and there seem to be a lot of them) will add lots of gil to the economy.
  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    Right now, the economy is all wonky because EVERYBODY is leveling up EVERYTHING. Mats cost ten times the amount of a finished product, dungeon grinders cant afford their repair bills, its pretty tumultuous.

    That said, i think once the majority of players settle into their preferred meta game, things will start to smooth out. Perhaps a more end game oriented gil fountain will help. I know that when the spirit bond/materia/meld system hits its stride, a lot of the crazy price fluctuations will even out.

    Id give it about 3-4 months and we will start to see the economy humming. Then wouldbe a good time to do some tweaking. But tweaking it now would be a bad decision since most players are still leveling up and finding out what they want to do.

  • MikeBMikeB MMORPG.com Community Manager Queens, NYPosts: 5,724Administrator Uncommon
    Originally posted by beej1986
    Man I hope they come up with something else besides dailys, they are getting old already in mmos. I'd like to see something more creative.

    Not a fan of dailies myself. I figured leves basically took care of that and occupied the same design space, so I'm kind of wondering if they really are working on dailies. You get 6 leves every 24 hours, so it pretty much works the same way. I like that you can pick the ones you want to do and adjust their difficulty. I'd rather see them improve on this system than add traditional dailies.

    Michael "MikeB" Bitton
    Community Manager
    Twitter: @eMikeB

  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILPosts: 1,886Member Uncommon

    You get 3 allowances every 12 hours. Also they stack up to 100 total. So I wouldn't call levequests dailies. However they can be a moderate source of income.

    I would rather see higher Gil rewards for completing dungeons.

  • describabledescribable EdinburghPosts: 406Member

    they already have dailies, "leves" which by the lack of quests gives you something to do, to grind seals when you are tired of the fates. (doesn't take long).

     

    The economy... urgh i hate crafting. "what do you mean to continue carpentry and leatherworking i have to take ANOTHER TWO professions AND grind certain animals constantly" (albgoat leather - it's so much fun to get) just a shame you need another thing to make the leather, then to actually make some of the stuff... i won't go there.

    if i wanted another 4 jobs.... yeah.... no.

     

    Of course, just now i'm playing "visit a city, be bombarded with SPAM with no real way to report it, and manually putting it into a blacklist which actually has a LIMIT of the number of people".

     

    coupled with bad mob placement (one of the class level 25 quests in a level 28-29 area). Poor mandatory story line dungeons (i really couldn't say story with a straight face, it feels forced to put a dungeon in there). Hell half of the dungeon mobs feel forced to be there without any real lore or anything behind them. 

     

    i could go on... already made my mind up not to resubscribe, for a reborn they've not really done very much. Solo mixed with forced grouping is amusing. I'm not even going to mention the duty thing... 50 mins for an Ifrit group. Fantastic, i'll do some leves to pas... oh wait i can't.

    I'll just slit my wrists and do crafting... you know what i'll play another GAME. 

     

    The quest zones, we play whack a mole to what point of the map you end up with in.. nothing seems thought out or well placed. I use teleport more times than my chocobo.

    looks pretty in some parts of the game though (most of the classes just feel the same). Puglist and lancer .. no real difference even with the "forms" and "combo" difference. All you're doing is bashing the buttons in a certain order in both ways. 

     

     

    sigh. give me a call when they add PvP... i doubt it'd be good, the "morale" system sounds very much like a mixture of LOTOR and WoW's resilience.

     
     
     

    "nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week

  • echolynfanecholynfan Lancaster, PAPosts: 681Member
    They could just add more loot chests around the world for people to find. I'm hoping they're working on something else besides dailies also - already have that with Leves.

    Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.

  • Greymantle4Greymantle4 Posts: 803Member Uncommon
    You might add that since they don't sell the game anymore that could kill gil generation too. :P
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,281Member Uncommon

    awesome article. The economy being run by transfers of wealth, buy making/obtaining something someone wants to buy is awesome, it reminds me of Wushu. The only "fountain" in Wushu is from kidnapping. These are not one time quests though, you can do it 10 times a day everyday, but is still heavily dependent on population. 

     

    I understand your concern with FFARR's economy completely. There are two options. First add dailies or some other type of event to continually inject cash. Second, create a cash to gill conversion system. The second is why I said, "atm" in the first paragraph.

     

    All that being said, this makes me want to give ffarr a shot. The need to produce, gather, or get something someone wants to buy to make cash is awesome. I just hope they introduce some decent pvp quick.

     
  • Juice2000Juice2000 weymouthPosts: 92Member

    Your Forgetting Leves they bring gil into the economy, Im currently doing Leves at 30 that award 1k per completion. While not a massive amount of gil its likely the economy will shrink to fit the scale, so there will be that at least.

  • angerbeaverangerbeaver Dorval, QCPosts: 871Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MikeB
    Originally posted by beej1986
    Man I hope they come up with something else besides dailys, they are getting old already in mmos. I'd like to see something more creative.

    Not a fan of dailies myself. I figured leves basically took care of that and occupied the same design space, so I'm kind of wondering if they really are working on dailies. You get 6 leves every 24 hours, so it pretty much works the same way. I like that you can pick the ones you want to do and adjust their difficulty. I'd rather see them improve on this system than add traditional dailies.

    I agree completely. I hated that feeling of "Have to log in and do my 6 dailies to make sure I get the [insert currency here] to trade in for that [insert specific items/pets/mounts/gear here].

    I prefer the Leves which let me run however many I want to run at anytime provided I have them available.

  • Darknessguy64Darknessguy64 Darkness, CAPosts: 233Member

    I prefer to have Gil be worth something instead of having eleventy billion Gil.

     

    As was stated earlier, some of the Gill sinks, such as repairs, are being addressed already.

     

    I think this team is smarter than us forum dwellers and they probably have a plan in place.

  • Segun777Segun777 Jade Dynasty Correspondent Lemont, PAPosts: 97Member
    Remember when you took those Intro to Econ classes, sat in the back and said to yourself, I'll never need to know this'.... yeah don't you just want to slap that kid on the back of his head... ;)
  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    Been waiting for this to come up.
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon

    2 words:

    Anarchy

    Online

    Anyone who has played that game will understand that a poor economy to start with and slowly tweaked and adjusted carefully so proper balance is achieved is much better than a flood of money coming in and you end up with an economy where players have to create 2 and 3 accounts worth of characters (not individual character, but actual accounts full of mules) to hold the billions and billions and billions of credits a player can amass. Then new players come in and see that nice low level shiny worth millions and they are lucky to have 100K to their name.

     

    When individual items in a game are price capped  by the individual character limit (the max amount of money the game will allow a character to hold) , You have a broken economy.

     
     
  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    I agree with JenoKane, I feel like they did this on purpose to really fine tune a deflated economy rather that having to go through an overhaul with an inflated economy. Something that Diablo 3 is struggling with and many others HAVE struggled with.

    I don't believe that this wasn't intentional. It has to one of the smartest moves made by an MMO team. This allows them to slowly get a groove of just how many players they need to support and then get into a position where they can easily scale gil fountains up and down depending on player count.

    Can't wait to see how they help us level 50s earn gil. If its in the form of dailies, I hope theres a twist to it. something like a hunting log daily would be nice. but they have to make up for teleport costs if they go that route.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • derek39derek39 monett, MOPosts: 155Member Uncommon
    I agree with JenoKane, I feel like they did this on purpose to really fine tune a deflated economy rather that having to go through an overhaul with an inflated economy. Something that Diablo 3 is struggling with and many others HAVE struggled with.

    I don't believe that this wasn't intentional. It has to one of the smartest moves made by an MMO team. This allows them to slowly get a groove of just how many players they need to support and then get into a position where they can easily scale gil fountains up and down depending on player count.

    Can't wait to see how they help us level 50s earn gil. If its in the form of dailies, I hope theres a twist to it. something like a hunting log daily would be nice. but they have to make up for teleport costs if they go that route.

    Monster Hunter Veteran since '04.
    Currently playing: MH4U, Bloodborne, FFXIV, and a bit of GW2 on the side.

  • HyanmenHyanmen KolkkalaPosts: 5,354Member Uncommon

    I don't see what the issue is?

    It may become an issue in the future if SE sits on their hands and does nothing. Which, at the time of posting this article is not even true anymore as the dev team lowered the cost of repairs and dark matters.

    In other words there is no issue at all in the FFXIV:ARR of today. There are simply economic forces at play and SE's hand to stabilize said forces through whatever means necessary at any given point in time.

    At this moment SE is keeping the influx of gil entering the economy at level cap low because the amount of money coming into the economy through players leveling their classes would cause massive inflation otherwise.. When this is no longer true in some other point in time SE will implement other measures to counter whatever economic shifts there may be.

    Pointless article, just like the forum topics about the """"issue""""

    "Housing is standard in most mmo's."
    - yolteotl79

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    The real "dailies" in this game is the Grand Company daily quests for craft classes and botanist classes. Resets every 24 hours if I remember correctly; rewards Grand Company currency and exp  to the correct class.
     
     
    As other pointed out: this patch reduced the repair costs by a hell lot! The repair cost  went from 350 gil to 80 gil lol.
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon

    Just wanted to point out that there is a huge gaping hole in your article. There is no set amount of Gil shared between all players that is being eaten up. The only way that would be true was if the ONLY method of earning gil was quests and leves. But that isnt the case. People are constantly bringing in money from fates and dungeons as well. No, theyre not huge chunks for each individual fate or dungeon, but it quickly adds up over the course of doing several fates or dungeons.

    Manage your Gil wisely and theres no reason to not always have the Gil you need for whatever you want. Take the couple of minutes it will take to ride your chocobo somewhere rather than teleporting if you're hurting for money. Dont blow your Gil on buying items from the market which are 5-10x what they should realistically be priced at based on the materials required and difficulty to make. If you're dying so much that you need to constantly repair your gear so often that you're broke from it... stop sucking.

    The only time I've been hurting for gil was when I spent several days doing pretty much nothing but crafting, leveling all of the crafting skills, and buying the mats rather than just gathering them myself. If you're actively going out and doing quests, fates, dungeons, and leves you'll be fine.

  • ReklawReklaw Am.Posts: 6,478Member Uncommon

    I will read this article again in about 3 to 6 months from now. Reason is I can never judge an ingame economy this short after release of the game. I do understand the concerns but it's to early to tell if they really matter at this time.

     

  • MardukkMardukk Posts: 1,558Member Uncommon
    I don't play the game, so mobs don't drop Gil at all?
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