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You're thoughts on planned gear score

Hitman211Hitman211 bannedville, IDPosts: 52Member

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/86522-All-Worlds-Maintenance-%28Sept.-11%29?p=1232837&viewfull=1#post1232837

Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

 

Now, a lot of people hate GS.  However...it does serve a good purpose.

 

It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons.  It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead.  It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect.  So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

 

What are your thoughts?  Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up  piss you off or make you happy...and why?

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Comments

  • JeroKaneJeroKane OsloPosts: 5,353Member Uncommon

    I hate Elitism to the Extreme! Hence, why I never bothered With RAIDing in MMO´s. Next to it being extremely time consuming. Time I do not have as a father With a Family now.

    RAIDing Guilds have always used a gearscore to Lock People out of participation.

    Being it via implemented Item Levels (like SE is doing now) or by manually identifying gear People are wearing (Vanilla WoW looking at you, EverQuest 2 looking at you too, etc, etc).

     

    Fact is!  Elitism in the RAIDing community has always existed. This implementation change is not going to change anything.

    It just makes it easier to perform gear checks. Checks that happened before anyway.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    This is  necessary, some of the primal battles just cannot be done in AF gear.  A lot of PUG groups however could win ifrit/garuda as long as everyone has decent gear obtained from AK/Wanderer's Palace.
  • lufiazlufiaz HCM CityPosts: 106Member Uncommon
    I definitely hate locking out content for a specific gear score only. I can get around it if it's a duty finder/LFG run. But if I want to do a normal run with my friends/guildies then then let us find out the hard way how far our raiding skills can compensate for gear score. I remember reading about a guild that finished the first 4 bosses of ICC raid in WOW with blue gears only back in the day so yeah, GS be damned.
  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member

    As long as they are very generous with what gear score is allowed, then I suppose I can tolerate it. 

     

    It should though not lock out people with gear that is actually enough to beat the content if they play good enough (without exploting of course).

     

    I would have prefered to remove all level and equip restrictions for "hard" content, but yeah. 

  • BetaguyBetaguy Halifax, NSPosts: 2,590Member
    Originally posted by Hitman211

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/86522-All-Worlds-Maintenance-%28Sept.-11%29?p=1232837&viewfull=1#post1232837

    Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

    This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

     

    Now, a lot of people hate GS.  However...it does serve a good purpose.

     

    It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons.  It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead.  It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

    I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

    Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect.  So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

     

    What are your thoughts?  Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up  piss you off or make you happy...and why?

    I like gear score and I think it is the majority.

    image

  • ZeddakisZeddakis My Own World, VAPosts: 119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Betaguy
    Originally posted by Hitman211

    http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/86522-All-Worlds-Maintenance-%28Sept.-11%29?p=1232837&viewfull=1#post1232837

    Basically a new function will be going in to lock people out of some endgame content if they don't meet the item level requirements.

    This is causing some uproar...now they are basically going to say that if you don't have the hard mode gear you cant run raids (in a generalized manner here)

     

    Now, a lot of people hate GS.  However...it does serve a good purpose.

     

    It is no different than locking out a level 20 from the level 30 dungeons.  It will prevent people from trying to piggy back on people who did run the appropriate content and skip ahead.  It will prevent the un favorable situation where one group member is getting harassed for being under geared, or others leaving a group because of someone not knowing that this instance you need full HM gear or whatever.

    I think its great because it will reduce negative instances of someone unknowingly entering an instance they are not prepared for (and you can NEVER tell these people anything without them taking offense, not matter how nice you phrase it btw)

    Also, it will stop people from basically skipping the endgame content and diving right into the top tier by riding on the backs of friends ect.  So you will see more people running the level 44-50 dungeons to gear up for hard modes, and more people running hard modes to gear up for raids ect...and less people trying to skip it all and do a raid.

     

    What are your thoughts?  Does locking endgame instances as they have done instances while leveling up  piss you off or make you happy...and why?

    I like gear score and I think it is the majority.

    Let's see....

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member
    Gearscore is a feature that solves problems created by this particular design of MMO endgame. It creates other problems in return, but overall, if you have an MMO like this, you're better off with gearscore than without.
  • moguy2moguy2 Saint Peters, MOPosts: 337Member
    It stops the people from just logging in and saying "OH I should raid !!!111!!eleven!!! " and going and raiding. And I get that people want gear and feel they should do minimal work to get it, now a days. But gear score gives you something to shoot for , for those that dont feel entitled to gear being handed to them.
  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    doesn't bother me.  usually motivates people to run older content instead of trying to skip to the top tier stuff expecting to be carried
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Posts: 847Member Uncommon

    Gear score - ok people will have their particular thoughts on this, but mine are:

     

    They've spent years of intensive recovery effort, people replacements, significant financial outlay,  just to come along with another gs->raid clone mmo?

    Sure you have the job classes to add skills to your main, but this is just another way to customize a skill tree - with considerably more effort but not as varied as say Rift for example.

    So, once you have completed the story quest it is the so familiar route of gear grind - raid - next gear - raid.

    How depressing is this. Not for the fact that it's an end raid game - some people still like that.

    But for the fact that after years of work, in terms of variety this adds near zero to the genre. 

  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon
    I never cared, don't care and will never care about GS. This approach has done me good so far so as always, GS? Fuck it.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Gear score is fine for MMOs with this type of design, makes things easier for everyone all the way around.

    But reading this thread firmly reminded me of why I'll not be playing this game, just not my preferred play style.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • Jairoe03Jairoe03 Winthrop Harbor, ILPosts: 732Member

    Sucks to see the emphasis on gear progression at the end game but hope it's done somewhat tastefully and not as liberally as let's say WoW, where I felt often abused and un-rewarded for any form of loyalty whatsoever as players newer than me easily acquire same level gear as me within a week after the next new instance comes out.


    I do see a purpose behind having this type of feature if their plan is to pursue a "vertical" gear progression rather than something a little more horizontal. IMO I think a better route would be to not focus so much on constantly increasing the difficulty bar and allowing players to "catch up" via gear until said-raid is completed. Why not make some instances challenging for the hardcore while keeping gear levels the same? Leaves it open for anyone to try but ultimately rewards the more "skilled".


    Gear grinding feels gimmicky after a while and these days I see it more as a crutch for MMO's to give players a reason to play rather than be a little more creative or to take a slightly different route aka example suggestion mentioned above.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,617Member Uncommon
    It's only good for PUGs or duty finder.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member

    Its a necessary evil in a gear grind game. If it doesnt exist, people will still inspect you and decide whether you are capable, it just drags the process out longer.

    If people cant inspect you, then they will run with you, tell you that you are not equipped for the dungeon (after a few fails) and kick you out. Or probably worse.

     

    Knowing what someones power level is at a glance in a gear grind game is the lesser of two evils. It just cuts out having to learn the hard way.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Naqaj
    Gearscore is a feature that solves problems created by this particular design of MMO endgame. It creates other problems in return, but overall, if you have an MMO like this, you're better off with gearscore than without.

    Spot on.

  • cybersurfrcybersurfr ParadisePosts: 168Member Uncommon

    Personally I do not mind. I think it would improve the match making in the Duty Finder.

     

    I know what it implies. However, gearscore or not, some people choose to grief and be douches in the internet. It's not the system at fault - it's the players themselves who choose to be toxic.

  • BloodaxesBloodaxes ZabbarPosts: 2,651Member Uncommon

    I hope it's going to be done only for duties because some people are really undergeared and the healer/team suffers because of that.

    I once joined a dungeon with duty finder and me a dps had more health than the tank...

    image

  • TsumoroTsumoro EozeaPosts: 408Member Uncommon

    People seem to associate elitism with a gear score which is simply not true. It is a good 'check' to ensure someone is prepared to do the content. 

    What was happening in the game was that people were hitting 50 and lining up to do epic Ifrit right off the bat, without even ensuring their character was as best equipped that they could make it, with no materia melded etc. So a duty finder group would start and you would be blessed with sub-par geared individuals which made the encounter impossible to do. 

    So, I think it's good to have the check, it allows more people to look at their gear rather than just trying to bum rush the content. Also, because you can join via the duty finder you don't have to worry about the GS checks individuals make. A GS in this game is nothing but win to be honest. 

  • IkedaIkeda Largo, FLPosts: 2,204Member Uncommon

    It IS elitism.  By score of 1149 not good enough but a 1150 is fine.  That's ludicrous.

    if SE is hell bent on this, it should read something like "Ready for Coils" or "Prepard for Coils".  Don't give the lets a number by which to measure you by.  That'd give people enough info for what they want and allow SE  to be the deciding factor if someone is ready (gear wise).

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  • BoldynBoldyn PartillePosts: 265Member

    If it's a hardlock I am against it. Why?

     

    I play mmo's for the social aspect, so naturally I am in a Guild (or in the case of FF, a Free Company). I wouldn't go to a HM or raid outside of the FC anyway, so if it only locks people from joining through a Group tool, then fine. If it means I can't join a HM with my friends because me, or one of them, has a few Points missing, then it's bad. I have NP carrying a friend who I feel deserve it, specially if I know that person has read up on the fight, something a gear score doesn't guarantee at all.

     

     

  • AyulinAyulin Mt marion, NYPosts: 334Member

    It's an indirect (as in "not blatant") way to help drag content out more by gating it and forcing the player to go through content that they might otherwise not want to. It's the game director dictating how you'll play the game (that portion of it anyway) and what content you will be forced to do in order to progress.

    It just so happens to benefit from a more superficial appearance of "making sure people aren't biting off more than they can chew", which allows them to put a smiley face on it and make it seem like a universally "Good Thing". Although, really... in that context, it just looks like yet another form of coddling and hand-holding the player. Yoshi-P has been demonstrating a penchant for that.

    But really... It's limiting. Some people like biting off more than they can chew. They like pushing themselves and seeing what they can take on; if they can do things that are supposed to be "impossible". They can group with like-minded people and take on those challenges, creating a kind of alternate way to enjoy the game for themselves.

    Meanwhile, the more elitist, min-maxing, "you must meet MY personal standards or you can't join our group!" types could continue doing as they always have and always would regardless.  Besides, it's not like this GS system is going to actually stop anyone from elitist ass-hats. They'll just find other ways to do so. Nothing is going to change in that department.

    So, it won't prevent a-holes from being a-holes... and it only cuts off guildies, or groups of like-minded people from pushing themselves or giving themselves challenges they can't with such a system in place.

    Congratulations... with a GS system in place, you will be progressing through the end-game content not on your terms, but on Yoshi-P's. He will be dictating how, when and on what condition you can try out different content. Not you.

    Another huge black mark on the game for me.

     

  • svannsvann san jose, CAPosts: 1,639Member Uncommon
    I think it should only be enabled for dungeon finder.  If you are joining a random group it makes sense to lockout people that havent done their prelude dungeons.  But they shouldnt do it for dungeons in general because it will make it more difficult for raiding FC's to gear up their newer players.  If an FC can do raid K with 1 undergeared noob, that should be their choice instead of making the whole raid redo content A, B, C,....., H, I, J.
  • PpiperPpiper Horsham, PAPosts: 648Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Gear score is fine for MMOs with this type of design, makes things easier for everyone all the way around.

    But reading this thread firmly reminded me of why I'll not be playing this game, just not my preferred play style.

    agreed.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx California, WAPosts: 1,985Member Uncommon
    Dear SE please stop copying everything that is bad about WOW and focus on good ones shall we?
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