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[Preview] Neo's Land: Aiming at MMO Roots

SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News ManagerThe Land of AZPosts: 16,580MMORPG.COM Staff Uncommon

If you haven't heard of Neo's Land, you will be intrigued by our two exclusive features, introducing an independent and fan-built MMO where players make all the decisions. Read on and then leave us your thoughts in the comments.

Neo’s Land is aiming squarely at the roots of MMORPG design, and will be a High Fantasy game utilizing the Atavism Online Engine and Unity3D.  Atavism will provide the server engine, while Unity3D handles the top layer graphics.  The beauty of this combo is that Unity at its core allows for cross-platform design. Neo’s Land can and will wind up across both computers and maybe even mobile devices. The Atavism Engine is a proprietary server software platform that ties directly into Unity3D. But rather than just go in blindly and make the game based on what they believe MMO gamers want, NeoJac is actively integrating players and prospective members of their community into the development of the game itself.

Read more of Bill Murphy's Neo's Land Aiming at MMO Roots.

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Associate Editor: MMORPG.com
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Comments

  • ChakaCanChakaCan San Antonio, TXPosts: 22Member

    Sounds very ambitious.  Some of it sounds great like no instance housing and no auction house (though I can go either way on auction house) 

    I do wonder who wants a game with both pvp and instanced (safe) dungeons.  I liked the old days of going into a dungeon and finding other players already inside.

  • ChochChoch Stamford, CTPosts: 157Member
    I think this can be a great game. My only concern is that they started the kickstarter with almost no publicity. Their facebook face has less than 10 likes, their forums are just as empty and they are hoping for $100k in funding? I hope they make it but as it stands now, it looks like the kickstarter campaign was a little premature.
  • SavantSavant Provo, UTPosts: 12Member
    There's been some publicity via MarkeeDragon's roundtables, a Wikidot forum (now migrated to the Neo's Land website), the Atavism Online engine website, and a couple of threads on the Unity forums. I actually think the game development community is more aware of this project than the game player community at this point. Hopefully, that changes quickly!
  • sketocafesketocafe StoupaPosts: 801Member Uncommon
    I like this list. I only hope they do the work on their crafting/market system. PLEX works in EVE along with a functioning player economy and was only introduced after that functioning economy existed. Hell, EVE employs economists.
  • BlueTiger33BlueTiger33 La Crosse, WIPosts: 158Member
    I don't want to be in any way detracting from the thread but in that photo, how is that thing in any way suppose to resemble a zombie? :)

    image

    I will never support freeloaders, no more subsidized gaming.
    My Blog
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    At least a little suspect of this company.  They've started MMO projects in the past that failed to come to fruition.  Ex: Islands of War.  Best of luck to them on their endeavors though and hopefully this works out well.

    Steam: Neph

  • SavantSavant Provo, UTPosts: 12Member
    According to the devs, Islands of War was scrapped to convert to Unity as the client, instead of a heavily-modified Multiverse architecture. I downloaded Multiverse recently, and I can see how daunting it would be to manage that platform.

    Did the devs ever ask for player funding for Islands of War? That would be news to me. I thought this was their first time to appeal to the general population for funding.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,423Member Uncommon

    Marketing 101,tell the gamer's it is their game and their creation.I simply do not like when devs pull off that lame marketing.

    Even a voting system is a fail because you could have an idea voted on by 40% leaving 60% of the players not liking the ideas.

    When i game,the last thing i want to do is keep checking for some new vote on content,i never used it in EQ2 either on the dungeon builder idea.

    How well simple termed content ideas are has to actually be seen in game,otherwise just marketing talk.This is why when mentioning a gimmick you need to go in great detail about that gimmick so we know exactly what it is and WHY it is.

    Example,i originally thought NW's idea was so cool ,i couldn't wait to get into the game and try it out.When i finally did get in i was not impressed,i never made one quest,the tools were simply not good enough and the results by player built content was nothing special,just tons of repeated ideas,locations ect ect.It was simply repeated content with a different quest heading.

    I prefer a developer to make the content unless you are going to allow players full access to the game engine.Also voting is a waste of time,better to just have the game create instances of player made content,that is the ONLY time i care to see instances.Perhaps cycle content every 2 months it gets rotated out for new content.

    No levels or Ah,was spun to sound like a positive,it might  be a total negative,again we need to hear the reasoning behind it ,the REAL truth.The levels might be removed to eliminate having to make gear and spells.abilities for every level,AH might be removed to simply save time on development and not have to have a robust data system carried by the servers.

    I realize it is every developers job to sell their product but we need details on proclaimed ideas.


    Samoan Diamond

  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Savant
    According to the devs, Islands of War was scrapped to convert to Unity as the client, instead of a heavily-modified Multiverse architecture. I downloaded Multiverse recently, and I can see how daunting it would be to manage that platform.

    Did the devs ever ask for player funding for Islands of War? That would be news to me. I thought this was their first time to appeal to the general population for funding.
     

     I didn't indicate they asked for funding on the previous project.  Simply that they attempted a similar project and it failed to come to fruition.  That makes me suspect of whether or not they are truly capable of seeing this project through to completion especially since it appears even larger in scope.  If you have examples of MMORPGs that they have successfully finished I would love to hear about them.

    Steam: Neph

  • Hamilton-NEOHamilton-NEO San Dog, CAPosts: 75Member

    Well that is true with the past.  The client had some issues and was difficult to work with.  We are having much better progress with Unity as the client.  Also fortunately the effort used is not a lost, of which can still be used and lessons learned. 

    I do agree that given how MMORPG's startup and such, there is a high risk of succeeding and of how others have failed.  I hope to have you keep checking to see how well we keep on doing.

     

    Sign off,
    Hamilton

  • SavantSavant Provo, UTPosts: 12Member
    Nephaerius, I didn't mean to sound like I was making accusations. Apologies if that's what my post sounded like.

    That being said, I don't know if lack of releasing Islands of War should be much of a red flag for whether this developer will deliver. If they had scrapped multiple MMO endeavors in the past, then I would definitely also be wary. But for an indie developer company to redesign their game and switch engines in this instance makes sense to me. The devs have discussed their rationale on their Unity forum threads previously. I'd recommend reading those and even asking more about it, if you still have questions.
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Savant
    Nephaerius, I didn't mean to sound like I was making accusations. Apologies if that's what my post sounded like.

    That being said, I don't know if lack of releasing Islands of War should be much of a red flag for whether this developer will deliver. If they had scrapped multiple MMO endeavors in the past, then I would definitely also be wary. But for an indie developer company to redesign their game and switch engines in this instance makes sense to me. The devs have discussed their rationale on their Unity forum threads previously. I'd recommend reading those and even asking more about it, if you still have questions.

     

    Originally posted by Hamilton-NEO

    Well that is true with the past.  The client had some issues and was difficult to work with.  We are having much better progress with Unity as the client.  Also fortunately the effort used is not a lost, of which can still be used and lessons learned. 

    I do agree that given how MMORPG's startup and such, there is a high risk of succeeding and of how others have failed.  I hope to have you keep checking to see how well we keep on doing.

     

    That all makes sense and as someone who was previously interested in IoW I'll have to check it out.  I genuinely do hope they're successful and hopefully my tone was not too negative.  I just wanted to share the info I did know.  I think the idea is great and extremely ambitious.  Hopefully with their new tools they will not run into the same problems. 

    Steam: Neph

  • Hamilton-NEOHamilton-NEO San Dog, CAPosts: 75Member
    No problem.  That is how all of us gamers are anyways, we are a competitive group of sorts.  If not, we would be playing the "Ungame."

    Sign off,
    Hamilton

  • SavantSavant Provo, UTPosts: 12Member
    Hey Nephaerius, I didn't mean to come off like I was making accusations. Apologies if that's how my post sounded. :) I don't think there are any finished MMOs under NeoJac's belt yet, but you have to start somewhere. Based on what I've read about why they transitioned away from Islands of War and their previous engine choice, I think I can understand their thought process. Hopefully this game makes it to production just fine. :)
  • SavantSavant Provo, UTPosts: 12Member
    Bah, sorry for the double addressing of the post. Surfing this site on my phone is less than ideal. :)
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon

    Some stuff sounds interesting, but it sounds overly ambitious and the community design aspect doesn't appeal to me at all. Most gamers seem like horrible designers, especially the vocally disgruntled.

    Positives:

    • one server
    • player driven content
    • sanbox style
    Mixed:
    • Unity - I've have mixed results with this engine. Some of the limiting UI characteristics are really irritating, especially when playing through a browser.  If they can have a standalone client that doesn't have weird interface actions (like escape pulling you out of fullscreen), then that could be a positive, or at least not a negative.
    • Indie Dev: I've had some good indie experiences (To The Moon, and so far Planet Explorers is shaping up), and some really horrible ones.  I've had more disappointing experiences with Indie games than good ones.  It leaves me cautious.
    Negatives:
    • player driven content - if not done right or controlled this could end up being horrible. Think of early foundry exploits in Cryptics games, or how useless the dungeon creation tool ended up in EQ2.
    • Sub and a cash shop - deal breaker for me.  I don't like subs, but I can do a required sub without a cash shop, but once you add in RMT (PLEX) or a cash shop then no sub.  There is no way you're going to deliver enough to justify that entire expense to me. If I'm paying a sub I expect to get a full service game for the price of that sub.
    I'll watch like I do most games in development and see how it unfolds.
  • RidrithRidrith Mountain View, ARPosts: 333Member Uncommon
    Subscription?  Yawn.  Go away, I'm not paying a subscription for a MMO that's hoping to be funded through Kickstarter.  This is just going to end poorly.
  • NeojacNeojac Calgary, ABPosts: 109Member Uncommon
    Subs come from a round table we did on how to monitize the game made by the community, there will be no cash shop though but only player housing will be cash.

    www.neojac.com
    www.neosland.com
    www.atavismonline.com
    www.smooonline.com

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Neojac
    Subs come from a round table we did on how to monitize the game made by the community, there will be no cash shop though but only player housing will be cash.

    Any RMT, DLC, or fees outside the sub don't work for me.  I don't mind paying an optional sub if those systems are in place, but a required recurring fee plus extra monetization don't work for me. You don't have to make an "ingame cash shop" for there to be a cash shop.  WoW has had a cash shop for ages through their website. The difference between the two is mostly just semantics.

    I will be watching though because I find I'm out of touch with most gamers and their preferences, at least based on my discussions here. My hunch is that your community is saying one thing, and then will deliver another when it comes time to actually fulfill that end of the bargain. If they do deliver, well more power to them and you.

    I just have a lack of confidence that gamers follow through with the loud demands they make in public discussion forums. Gamers say they want feature X, implented Y way.  But it seems what they really want are parts of feature X and they're really not sure how they want it implemented but when it was done Y way in their last game it was okay by them so that is how they ask for it.

    For example, do players really want a true sandbox or do they really want a little less direction, a lot more freedom to play how they like, but still have some direction and suggestions so they don't have to create it all on their own.

  • Swedish_ChefSwedish_Chef of heroes, MSPosts: 213Member

    So, is this going to be yet another FFA PvP sandbox? If so then no thank you; believe it or not some people actually do like to tend their digital vegetable gardens without worrying about taking a fireball to the face from some 'PvPer' who is for all intents and purposes just a hair away from being a full fledged sociopath.

    Also, I may be wrong but this really sounds like the devs are simply going to create the bare minimum of content & then rely on players for the rest. Newsflash: Just because your game is a sandbox doesn't mean there shouldn't be a good amount of PvE and / or story content there as well. Sandbox =/= empty, open world.

     

  • akkedis86akkedis86 pretoriaPosts: 108Member Uncommon
    I am sorry, But you cannot develop a tripple a or even a aa game using the unity engine. Skip for me for now. But the principles look good.
  • NephaeriusNephaerius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,539Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Swedish_Chef

    So, is this going to be yet another FFA PvP sandbox? If so then no thank you; believe it or not some people actually do like to tend their digital vegetable gardens without worrying about taking a fireball to the face from some 'PvPer' who is for all intents and purposes just a hair away from being a full fledged sociopath.

    Also, I may be wrong but this really sounds like the devs are simply going to create the bare minimum of content & then rely on players for the rest. Newsflash: Just because your game is a sandbox doesn't mean there shouldn't be a good amount of PvE and / or story content there as well. Sandbox =/= empty, open world.

     

     Did you even read the article?  Where did you get FFA PvP from?  They specifically discussed safe zones, guards, insurance for items to prevent loss, etc and that they were still finalizing a PvP system based on community feedback because they know it is a tricky issue to satisfy everyone.

    Steam: Neph

  • tawesstawess LkpgPosts: 2,532Member Uncommon

    This to me sounds like a updated Ultima Online with a much less known world. And if they aim at UO type of numbers i think they will do well.

     

    Not my type of game but that is the beauty of the current market, it is a true indie-market now. Anyone can take a shot a making a game and self-publish it.

  • DilligDillig Gladewater, TXPosts: 80Member

    The beauty of this combo is that Unity at its core allows for cross-platform design. Neo’s Land can and will wind up across both computers and maybe even mobile devices.

     

    Sorry no thanks.

  • HurricanePipHurricanePip Sommerille, MAPosts: 167Member
    Good luck.  Just looking at the bullet points above help me understand why crowd sourcing isn't always the best design solution.  Looks like generic MMO design where players pay to win.

    If you don't worry about it, it's not a problem.

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