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If how Player Studio is right now is any indication, EQ Landmark is going to be a messy start

mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,441Member Uncommon

From the EQN reveal, the thought of making a tower or castle in EQL so you can sell it sounds nice and all but, realistically, what is actually going to happen? Nothing you make will be accepted.

Over the first week there will be a tidal wave of player content submissions that they will be so swamped in reviews you will be lucky if they even give you a reason for declining your work. If they do give a reason, expect a "too similar to something else" type response. Are hours, days of revisions really worth the effort with no design direction?

Whoever is the first to send in the the most basic, easiest to make assets that barely meets their requirements practically wins a monopoly on that type of work. Anything too similar will be declined. And how many types of towers and castles will be sent in? Lots of them. Maybe 5 of each will be accepted out of 100s of submissions. Being able to send something in and make cash from it will be more like a lottory contest without the payout.

Take a look at the player studio forums and see how limited what gets accepted. Those are even things that take far more effort to make; like textures and models. Planetside 2 for example, has very few actual camos the will be accepted and then that's it, no more. It has only been a month!

Anyway, I figure most of you are smart enough to know to not expect too much. The purpose of all this is to get SoE money for all the time they spent on EQN and the content landfill they need players to participate in.

Comments

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member

    I believe Landmark assets will be easier to port over than player studio assets,

     

    Landmark made creations will basically be built on the framework SOE provides, no new textures just new combination and design shapes...and shapes should be no problem looking at the voxel engine

     

    Player Studio issues however are actual new textures that have to be downloaded to your PC for you to be able to see, anyone who has stepped foot in the second life knows what a system of unchecked new textures can do to performance, even the absolute best computer of today will still have serious lag between the time a new texture appears in the second life and the time it displays on your computer, especially if it is not one new texture (like a wall) but 100 of them, like the interior of a house and people with clothes.

    Online Games can not run like that and I can understand them putting a throttle on new textures, I think anyone with a basic understanding of how computers and online games work could understand that. I would assume that we can expect less problems with building your own home in landmark and porting it to Next than building your own weapon mesh/texture in playershop.

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    Keep in mind that EQL the players will be creating entire areas of the game - not just objects. So hillsides, valleys, rocks, fields - everything is voxel-based and all of those will be considered player-generated content.

    So it's not only making objects/textures etc... that is the current iteration of Player Studio as those games are not voxel-based.

    EQL will be vastly different.

     

    However as I posted before - this is what EQL will end up being like:

     

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

    i doubt selling EQNL designs will be any tougher

    than players selling their EQ2 decorated homes on SOE marketplace

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/380998/EQ2-info-on-players-selling-decorated-homes-on-the-marketplace.html

     

  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member

    Wow such negativity for a neat concept and game they are making.  You know that you don't have to sell anything.  You can get in a build what you want and not sell a single piece of work.  If you do decide to sell something and you are successful at that sale then so what if SOE gives you a little bit of the revenue.  This seams like a win-win to me. 

     

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,657Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mmoguy43

    From the EQN reveal, the thought of making a tower or castle in EQL so you can sell it sounds nice and all but, realistically, what is actually going to happen? Nothing you make will be accepted.

    Over the first week there will be a tidal wave of player content submissions that they will be so swamped in reviews you will be lucky if they even give you a reason for declining your work. If they do give a reason, expect a "too similar to something else" type response. Are hours, days of revisions really worth the effort with no design direction?

    Whoever is the first to send in the the most basic, easiest to make assets that barely meets their requirements practically wins a monopoly on that type of work. Anything too similar will be declined. And how many types of towers and castles will be sent in? Lots of them. Maybe 5 of each will be accepted out of 100s of submissions. Being able to send something in and make cash from it will be more like a lottory contest without the payout.

    Take a look at the player studio forums and see how limited what gets accepted. Those are even things that take far more effort to make; like textures and models. Planetside 2 for example, has very few actual camos the will be accepted and then that's it, no more. It has only been a month!

    Anyway, I figure most of you are smart enough to know to not expect too much. The purpose of all this is to get SoE money for all the time they spent on EQN and the content landfill they need players to participate in.

    What about player voting? We'll be able to vote and follow good designers. If some random guy builds a better door then some 20 man build team, people will notice and vote him up. SOE is putting a lot of the heavy lifting on the players as they are with the actual building.

    I see it like phone/tablet Apps. 99% are garbage, but the 1% provides high quality and is rewarded for the effort.

    If everyone up votes a particular door, table, castle, etc SOE will take a look and accept it or not. No need for them to review millions of submissions on day 1.

    Also, Landmark might be out for a year or two before EQN opens. Plenty of time for the system to balance out and have the top quality designs rise to the top.

    I'm sure it will be similar to youtube where popular channels get the most views/votes, but nothing stopping someone from releasing something and getting popular from word of mouth. They've even said that they want players to go visit other "world's" and check out stuff in person. Not only view it in a cash shop window.

    We know only a few details, but so far, nothing makes it sounds as hopeless as you are trying, sorry.

    Player Studio in previous games != Landmark. While I don't know all the ins and out of the current version, LM sounds fundamentally different. Not that it will be perfect, but they seem to be on the right track so far.

    LM isn't a fun mini-game for design people, it is a stand alone mmo. Seems silly to invest so much time/money in to it and then only accept a handful of submissions on day one. Everyone just uninstalls on day 2? Game over?

    The plan seems to be for LM and EQN to coexist, not EQN opens, submissions accepted, quota filled, LM closed down.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    Good post, for every creation, there is a potential for rejection!

     

    It's more of a company flaw when this happens though, not a creators flaw.

     

    Every creation should be credited, as appropriate.  Players will have plenty of time to review all the designs before buying anything, so this shouldn't be a problem.

     

    Obvious submissions that duplicate others work SHOULD be deleted .. but with the versatility of Voxels, this is going to be very very very rare when a legitimate artist creates someone elses work, without seeing it.

     

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Good post, for every creation, there is a potential for rejection!

     

    It's more of a company flaw when this happens though, not a creators flaw.

     

    Every creation should be credited, as appropriate.  Players will have plenty of time to review all the designs before buying anything, so this shouldn't be a problem.

     

    Obvious submissions that duplicate others work SHOULD be deleted .. but with the versatility of Voxels, this is going to be very very very rare when a legitimate artist creates someone elses work, without seeing it.

     

    I am not sure how they will identify duplicate creations.  If you buy a door from player2 and a tower from player3 and you build the rest of the castle and sell it you, player2 and player3 all get a cut of the proceeds.  The person with the largest investment gets the largest cut.

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by Kyllien
    Originally posted by Karteli

    Good post, for every creation, there is a potential for rejection!

     

    It's more of a company flaw when this happens though, not a creators flaw.

     

    Every creation should be credited, as appropriate.  Players will have plenty of time to review all the designs before buying anything, so this shouldn't be a problem.

     

    Obvious submissions that duplicate others work SHOULD be deleted .. but with the versatility of Voxels, this is going to be very very very rare when a legitimate artist creates someone elses work, without seeing it.

     

    I am not sure how they will identify duplicate creations.  If you buy a door from player2 and a tower from player3 and you build the rest of the castle and sell it you, player2 and player3 all get a cut of the proceeds.  The person with the largest investment gets the largest cut.

    .. if you say so ..

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Copyright issues will be a real headache, I think. You design a really cool castle, it sells like hotcakes, and suddenly the market is flooded with castles almost identical to yours. Where will the line be drawn on what constitutes "too similar" ?

     

    If the Player Studio really becomes a big money earner, how will counterfeiting by RMT gangs be prevented ? Producing fake physical copies of designer goods in RL is already a massive industry, despite  the attempts at prosecution. How on earth are you going to protect your digital design from being copied and sold at 50% less than your price ?

     

    Anyone intending to approach Landmark from a money-making perspective is in for a rough ride, I think. It is primarily intended to be a game, with the possibility of perhaps actually earning a bit of cash on the side. Crying about how it won't be a fair or effective monetization process is fairly irrelevant.

  • solarbear88solarbear88 BathurstPosts: 73Member
    I am definitely going to construct a phallus.
  • donpopukidonpopuki Dearborn, MIPosts: 591Member
    I'm not sure what's the problem here. Not every player creation is going to be a work of art or useable, granted. Even if one 1/1000th of the stuff made in EQL makes it over to EQN it's still worthwhile.
  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Anyone intending to approach Landmark from a money-making perspective is in for a rough ride, I think. It is primarily intended to be a game, with the possibility of perhaps actually earning a bit of cash on the side.

    agree

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/04/soe-live-2013-delving-deeper-into-eqns-landmark/

    each plot can be tagged with descriptions that will allow others to use the filter on the map to search for certain genres or specific aspects (it can even be as detailed as searching for blue doors) in order to travel to that plot and check it out. Players can either hoof it to that plot, queue it for visiting later, or in some cases even teleport. Georgeson said that there will be ways for people to travel between the various worlds in order to visit friends or see the sights. To help facilitate this, there will also be offline support in the form of mobile applications that will let players search for and queue up the places they want to visit once they log into the game.

    The community will also be empowered to help one another experience various aspects of Landmark. There will be in-game support for people who want to write reviews on properties. You can also subscribe to favorite builders and receive updates on what they are doing (in whatever medium you want, including in-game or via Twitter, etc.) as well as subscribe to favorite reviewers.

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/21/gamescom-2013-in-depth-looks-at-everquest-next-and-eq-next-lan/

    You can also gather resources, craft items (including better gathering tools), and man an in-game booth to sell stuff to other Landmark adventurers. You can even sell your real estate on the global marketplace or make a career out of crafting environmental items for other players to use.

    One area of Landmark will be reserved for art in the Norrathian style. Players can use the game's tagging system to "like" content, and the most-liked content (that fits the art style) will show up in EverQuest Next proper on day one of its launch.

     

    in EQ2,

    you can get a partial taste for this, players can visit decorated homes and rate them

  • UtinniUtinni Richmond, VAPosts: 380Member Uncommon
    I'm surprised noone has asked how they are going to monetize EQL...
  • SwaneaSwanea Vegas, NVPosts: 2,368Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    Keep in mind that EQL the players will be creating entire areas of the game - not just objects. So hillsides, valleys, rocks, fields - everything is voxel-based and all of those will be considered player-generated content.

    So it's not only making objects/textures etc... that is the current iteration of Player Studio as those games are not voxel-based.

    EQL will be vastly different.

     

    However as I posted before - this is what EQL will end up being like:

     

    This graph is way off, I mean really.  The gold slice needs to be about 95% of the pie......4% for the Pink slice.  I know I'd fall into those two slices.   

     

    Okay, maybe just one, but whatever!

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common
    Originally posted by Utinni
    I'm surprised noone has asked how they are going to monetize EQL...

    im expecting a cosmetic shop like DCUO but i dont know

  • KyllienKyllien Renton, WAPosts: 315Member
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    Copyright issues will be a real headache, I think. You design a really cool castle, it sells like hotcakes, and suddenly the market is flooded with castles almost identical to yours. Where will the line be drawn on what constitutes "too similar" ?

     

    If the Player Studio really becomes a big money earner, how will counterfeiting by RMT gangs be prevented ? Producing fake physical copies of designer goods in RL is already a massive industry, despite  the attempts at prosecution. How on earth are you going to protect your digital design from being copied and sold at 50% less than your price ?

     

    Anyone intending to approach Landmark from a money-making perspective is in for a rough ride, I think. It is primarily intended to be a game, with the possibility of perhaps actually earning a bit of cash on the side. Crying about how it won't be a fair or effective monetization process is fairly irrelevant.

    Just to be clear the players will have zero copyright protection.  SOE will own all the copyrights.  Additionally, since there is potentially zero cost to produce your masterpiece there is no loss if someone copies it.

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