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Balance PVE with PVP

ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
In the original DAOC, you could play PVE, PVP, or both, as these were all viable long-term options.  It somewhat distresses me that CU infers only a PVP-centric design philosophy.  I would like to see a healthy PVE experience all around in this game.
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Comments

  • ninjapyninjapy berkeley springs, WVPosts: 39Member Uncommon

    I would like to point out that this is not DAOC 2.0. SO to compare DAOC to this is not going to work for you. Also if you want PVE in a PVP game do what I do, just look at the other players as part of the "Environment".

     

  • GrixxittGrixxitt New Orleans, LAPosts: 543Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    In the original DAOC, you could play PVE, PVP, or both, as these were all viable long-term options.  It somewhat distresses me that CU infers only a PVP-centric design philosophy.  I would like to see a healthy PVE experience all around in this game.

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  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Originally posted by ninjapy

    I would like to point out that this is not DAOC 2.0. SO to compare DAOC to this is not going to work for you. Also if you want PVE in a PVP game do what I do, just look at the other players as part of the "Environment".

     

    I just think that PVP zerging has about 30 minutes of novelty before it wears out.

  • mightyjoxermightyjoxer San Jose, CAPosts: 34Member
    The only PVE I would like in this game is if you could hire NPC guards for your Homes, Warehouses, Castles etc
  • solochoowookiesolochoowookie Redmond, WAPosts: 35Member

    One of the main reasons I funded was no PVE. All the chatter in other games about smarter AI and dynamic mob spawning....If you only play against humans, poof, best AI in the known universe, problem solved.

    I look forward to never getting a quest to go kill 25 orcs, wolves, pigs, giants, bunnies... etc. Go kill or be killed 25 times on the field of battle. I can get behind that.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    Originally posted by ninjapy

    I would like to point out that this is not DAOC 2.0. SO to compare DAOC to this is not going to work for you. Also if you want PVE in a PVP game do what I do, just look at the other players as part of the "Environment".

     

    I just think that PVP zerging has about 30 minutes of novelty before it wears out.

    Then play a different game.. maybe a pve game?

    Camelot Unchaind is more or less pvp only. And for some, PvPing wears not out after 30 mins, or 5 hours, or month, or even years. Lets just say it, like it is, this game is most probably not for you.

  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    In the original DAOC, you could play PVE, PVP, or both, as these were all viable long-term options.  It somewhat distresses me that CU infers only a PVP-centric design philosophy.  I would like to see a healthy PVE experience all around in this game.

    Then you need to go back and reread the Foundational Principles Mark Jacobs released during Kickstarter. For instance here. What you are requesting isn't happening. If you don't like it, don't play CU.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • SBE1SBE1 New York, NYPosts: 335Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    I just think that PvE gathering 10 rat quests has about 30 minutes of novelty before it wears out.

    Fixed that for you.

  • mshawneemshawnee Tulsa, OKPosts: 1Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    Originally posted by ninjapy

    I would like to point out that this is not DAOC 2.0. SO to compare DAOC to this is not going to work for you. Also if you want PVE in a PVP game do what I do, just look at the other players as part of the "Environment".

     

    I just think that PVP zerging has about 30 minutes of novelty before it wears out.

    Agreed.  I am looking forward to CU when it comes out. 

  • NidwinNidwin LuxembourgPosts: 94Member

    I sense a lot of bitterness in all those responses.

     

    @OP

    I understand how you feel. Being a core RvRer I've experienced what you're experiencing now for so so long. All those games that have come out and me wondering "Where is my RvR?".

     

    Listen.

    PVErs have hundreds of titles to chose out, the entire mmorpg and fantasy game industry is making games for peeps like you. Today we have 3 choices, we core RvRers.

    1. GW2's WvW. Doesn't fit my playstayle as no holy trinity, showing core tank players, core healers and core support players the big finger. It gets ugly in mid-scale fights and just unplayable for my taste. For me large scale is 150+ vs 200/250+ and not 50vs50. For me Anet fails to give me, and quite some others a decent RvR experience with their WvW.

     

    2. Warhmmer Online AoR. Till today the best PvP/RvR there is and has been on the market. Closes the 18th December.

     

    3. DaoC. An 11 Years old game and when you play it it feels like 11 Years old but that's the only thing left for me once War closes. Imagine and entire RvR community having to chose between GW2 and and 11 Year old game in a bit less than 3 months?

     

    The only light for us is CU and we'll have to wait at least 2 more Years. Can't you even grant us that little place in this gaming industry while you have tons of games to chose from?

     

    Nidwin

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 London MIlls, ILPosts: 247Member Uncommon

    I'm a little torn. I'd like the game to have good population, but i'm not willing to see the PvP watered down for the PVE.

     

    There are 100 games out there if you want to PVE and Raid.

     

    There are about 3 for good Faction based PVP and all of those fail in a few significant aspects.

     

    I REALLY hope the game can get enough players without PVE. Only time will tell though.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,002Member Uncommon

    @OP, I think TESO might be the MMO you are looking for, this title will definitely stick to it's PVP focus with almost no chance it will deviate.

    I supported it even though I too would prefer DAOC 2.0, but not expecting this title to be that game.

    And I'm back playing on a DAOC freeshard, so it's all good.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
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  • bubbabillbubbabill beloit, WIPosts: 80Member
    my god just give the dang pvpers the game.  maybe then they will stfu about the other pve games and stop whining for  ffa pvp on every new mmo that comes out.   i just wished this game would come out soon.  sick or them already
  • IridescentOrkIridescentOrk Ellicott City, MDPosts: 157Member
    hopefully the devs won't pull a Warhammer; no mini PvP games please; can't wait to roll a Helbound

    gameplay > graphics

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 London MIlls, ILPosts: 247Member Uncommon
    MJ said there might be a "battleground" type training for new players to get some opportunity to fight before going out into the open world.  That's obviously highly subject to change though.
  • NegativeJoeNegativeJoe hluboka nad vltavouPosts: 177Member Common


    Originally posted by IridescentOrk
    hopefully the devs won't pull a Warhammer; no mini PvP games please; can't wait to roll a Helbound


    yes please, the minigames drove me away from WAR early on(like a million others im sure).


    as far as pve, the original daoc there were definately a lot of people that played it for just the pve and crafting. or at the very least, the pve with chance of getting ganked in darkness falls. but like was mentioned this isn't daoc2, so while a brand spankin new daoc would be awesome, i can settle for chopping it in half, giving us the rvr side and expanding on it.

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  • RoguewizRoguewiz Lampasas, TXPosts: 614Member Uncommon

    No, don't balance them.  Keep them separate.  Have PVE builds that can only be done in PVE, have PVP builds that can only be done in PVP.  Have gear associated with said styles of play.  If you enter a PVP area, you must be in a PVP spec/equiped.

    Far too often games fail at balancing the two.  It is annoying and takes away from the enjoyment of either style.

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  • DrakynnDrakynn The Pas, MBPosts: 2,030Member

    The whole marketing spiel behind the kickstarter campaign was that CU was going to be 99% focused on RvR PvP with what little PvE there will be is to provide mats for crafting nothing else.

    For them to turn around and do what you say shifting focus to be a balance between PvE and PvP would be a slap int he face to those who backed them in the first place because they bought into that vision.

    I'm not a backer personally but am interested to see how they intend to make such a narrow focus interesting long term,I just don't have enough faith in them to pull it off to be a backer.But for them to bait and switch like the OP is suggesting would make me want them to fail.

  • FlyinDutchman87FlyinDutchman87 London MIlls, ILPosts: 247Member Uncommon

    Yeah, I don't see it happening. MJ has said countless times already that he has no intention of adding PVE. In truth he couldn't if he wanted to. He doesn't have the money. He's trying to make an MMO on 5 million bucks. That's SMALL like REALLY small.

     

    The only way he think he has a chance is BECAUSE he's not putting any PVE in the game. That's why he thinks the game can work. He can pick up the hard core RvR players and keep them BECAUSE there isn't PVE to dilute their PvP experience. Where as If he put PVE in he'd have to keep putting MORE PVE in because of the rate at which PVEer's devour content.

     

    By keeping the game foucsed he can keep the costs down and make a game where 60k players is a success and not a disappointment. IF you spend 200mil on a game *Cough* TOR *Cough*. You can't have 50k players. You'll go broke which TOR did. If you spend 5 mil and keep your 50k players. Your fine.

  • ZinzanZinzan NorthPosts: 1,351Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    In the original DAOC, you could play PVE, PVP, or both, as these were all viable long-term options.  It somewhat distresses me that CU infers only a PVP-centric design philosophy.  I would like to see a healthy PVE experience all around in this game.

    You clearly don't understand a single thing about CU, i suggest you read a bit more before posting.

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  • JetrpgJetrpg Whitehouse, OHPosts: 2,376Member
    People really want daoc 2.0 . but we will never get it.

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  • nennafirnennafir Greater New Orleans Metro Area, LAPosts: 283Member Uncommon

    I want some scenarios but feel it will be all open world pvp.  The main problem I have with open world pvp is that it is basically no skill.  Yes, it involves a lot of "pride of the realm" and esprit de corps and etc etc, but I tend to have more fun in scenario settings.

    I actually loved WAR scenarios.  I also liked GW1 pvp.  Both of these balanced things for a more fun game.

    I know this isn't really the direction CU is taking, and that's fine.  I'm sure it will still have some fun things.

  • LaetitianLaetitian ViennaPosts: 12Member
    Originally posted by nennafir

    I want some scenarios but feel it will be all open world pvp.  The main problem I have with open world pvp is that it is basically no skill.

    Untrue. I enjoyed that you pointed out that you understood the intentions of Camelot Unchained's developers, but even in the face of your acceptance, this statement is not true.

    I have been playing Champions of Regnum for more than six years, and have often found myself in eras when my realm was dauntingly underpopulated, as well as such when it constantly overwhelmed the enemy [And similarly, even more often, there could always be extreme majorities/minorities amongst all realms]. On frequent occasions, I have experienced a lack of coordination amongst our ranks, or unorganised rushes of opponents cause battles to be lost rather hopelessly by those clueless hosts that were actually superior in number. The same obviously happens as a result to other deficiencies of the players's skill, but group-organisation seems to be the most significant factor, to me.

    There is no way the developers of CU would not provide for similar chances for smaller groups in their game. And even if this kind of hope was not sufficient for such players that are being zerged, those always have to remember that, while the zerg's gameplay might not require any skill, accumulating those masses in the first place can very often do so. As a consequence, rationally thinking players that are not too occupied with having their pride offended by being killed, will just understand the want of improvement in their own abilities of uniting their allies for their cause.

    And now this realisation is the one that I think some PvE-oriented players just do not want to make. I honestly think it is because they do not find content interesting that does not instantly provide them action - which is certrainly justified; but they will have to understand that others will find this kind of content empty of the players' own commitment, and therefore would prefer worlds that encourage their players to participate in the only kind of action they can consider genuine, because it is initiated by them.

     

    Hoping to have fortified your trust in sieges and battles in open worlds (at least to the point where you want to endeavor to make the system fun for you),

    Laetitian. =)

  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNPosts: 557Member Uncommon

     

    My knee jerk  reaction is to agree that pve and pvp need to be 50:50.

    But then when I think back to playing daoc, I only gridnded so I could either play in a BG, or hit 50 for Emain.

     

    Levling bacame and means to an end.

     

    I think it would be cool to have to PVP to level in order raid. I know that is not the case here, but that would be a cool diea.

    End game raids, but you have to pvp to cap level to get to them.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


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  • otacuotacu BolzanoPosts: 547Member

    There is nothing to balance.

    They've already stated that the game will be 99:1 Pvp:Pve

    That 1% is just the Depths :)

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