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This how much more fun and rewarding combat experience Wildstar would be without Telegraphs

ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,557Member Uncommon
And also proves that you dont need big red dots to anticipate boss attacks and be completely easy to have a successful game.
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Comments

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    Looks great for single player.

    But again single player not MMO, so you can't really compare the two.

  • ProGeeProGee UmePosts: 17Member Uncommon
    Much as I can agree that the telegraphs might not be needed in all situations I have to point out that what you are showing is a single player boss fight. Now imagine 39 others running around trying to do their shit, bolts of ice flying through the air and whatnot covering the screen... It's different.
  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,557Member Uncommon
    I can understand having a few telegraphs for big raid boss fights but not small groups and solo mobs.
  • thecapitainethecapitaine West Chester, PAPosts: 401Member Uncommon
    The last time I played Dragon's Prophet, their boss battles were like this, with no red circles or any such telegraphs.  People didn't seem to have too much of a problem with them, except for some glitches and one-shotting abilities.  I actually think there's not a whole lot of difference in challenge between avoiding big red circles and long, slow windups once you've had a little experience fighting the mob.  It might be nice to have a toggle option for people who want to look at enemy animations instead of waiting for nasty stuff to appear on the ground.
  • DaessarDaessar Chino, CAPosts: 204Member

    This is how much more fun it would be, if you paid attention to the game that you are posting about.

     

    They have said many times that you can turn them off, and/or adjust the coloring.

  • DecimanDeciman larryville, IDPosts: 101Member
    Didn't I see somewhere that you will be able to turn off the telegraphs?
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    Turning off telegraphs being fun would depend a lot of how the rest of the mob's behavior is setup. If a fight is scripted, then it would be possible to learn the script, and without telegraphs beat the mob. If the mob itself has some physical behavior that players can learn, then they can react and beat the mob. However, if the mob's behavior is pretty random, and there's no indication, physical or otherwise of what the mob is doing, then the players are just randomly getting blind sided. Beating the mob would have less to do with the time spent working on it and the effort spent 'learning' the mob, and more to do with just random dice rolls. Personally, I'm not a fan of just randomly winning stuff.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Not as fun and rewarding as when a bad guy targets you, his telegraph follows you around for a bit and you strategically land it on it's own minions and they go BOOM.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • WW4BWWW4BW KoldingPosts: 493Member

      Woah woah woah... Now hang on a minute.. Are red circles required for moves to be concidered telegraphed? Looked to me like the boss in the video was telegraphing plently with weapon windups and lifting his leg before doing that shockwave-leap move. The windups were so damn long that it looked stupid when the boss charged off in the opposite direction, because the player had so long to move around behind.

      In the game from the video you didnt really need a target indicator since you were the target. That is a bit different in MMOs. You can't always tell who the monster is going to hit. That said though I hate the stupid red circles too.

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    Rewarding?  Try none as no one would be able to legitimately beat any boss due to the complexity of WS's telegraphing.  This is no "don't stand in the red circle" but rather a whole nother mechanic to the combat... at least that is what it feels like.

    Wiping and wiping and wiping and wiping.... followed by more wiping is NOT fun.

    I would rather have a very complex telegraphing system of red shapes than an equally telling system that only has neanderthall combat moves.

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

    Turning off telegraphs being fun would depend a lot of how the rest of the mob's behavior is setup. If a fight is scripted, then it would be possible to learn the script, and without telegraphs beat the mob. If the mob itself has some physical behavior that players can learn, then they can react and beat the mob. However, if the mob's behavior is pretty random, and there's no indication, physical or otherwise of what the mob is doing, then the players are just randomly getting blind sided. Beating the mob would have less to do with the time spent working on it and the effort spent 'learning' the mob, and more to do with just random dice rolls. Personally, I'm not a fan of just randomly winning stuff.

    The game's mobs have physical movements prior to telegraphs. If you kill a couple versions of the same mob, you'll be able to spot their telegraph moves.

    Not all attacks are telegraphs, the enemies also have a version of auto-attacks that nearly always hit you - mainly depending on melee vs. range.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Deciman
    Didn't I see somewhere that you will be able to turn off the telegraphs?

    supposedly was announced at pax that you could turn it off

    http://www.wildstarforums.com/forums/wildstar-discussions/general-discussion/41849-telegraph-opacity

  • TinybinaTinybina Boondocks, TXPosts: 2,130Member
    Originally posted by tkreep
    And also proves that you dont need big red dots to anticipate boss attacks and be completely easy to have a successful game.

     

    Looks great!  Now post a link showing us the warplots, pvp towers, battle grounds, arenas, epic housing, dungeons, world events, character progression, endgame raid dungeons, endgame solo content and crafting.

     

    Bottom line is that unless you played this, which I am pretty sure you haven't, please don't knock it until you try it.  It is actually a very good game as is.

    ------------------------------
    You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member

    The combat isn't really like other action combat and feels seriously lacking when it comes to that feeling of being involved. Combat seemed to have a lot more in common with wow's combat than it does with say TERA or gw2.

    Sure you have to get out of the red circles, but it never really felt like there was a lot of "action" to it. It was more like...walk out of the red zones and then activate more hot bar skills of your own till you see red again.

  • thundergodtthundergodt cleveland, OHPosts: 27Member Uncommon
    telegraphs are crappy i think games should be more like Vindoctus. I would rather read the boss movements than the ground, but every game seems to be doin it now. while i like FFXIV ARR its because of this that i wont be there long.
  • Mr.KujoMr.Kujo SwinoujsciePosts: 383Member
    Originally posted by thundergodt
    telegraphs are crappy i think games should be more like Vindoctus. I would rather read the boss movements than the ground, but every game seems to be doin it now. while i like FFXIV ARR its because of this that i wont be there long.

     

    Try reading boss movements, when mages spam fireballs and lighting strikes on him. You need to see him first before you can read anything. So you have a game, where monsters have special attacks that are indicated with special movement, but have such impressive and advanced visuals, that obscure the monsters animation even in small group of players. How would you solve that problem. I have a great idea, they should make telegraphs...wait...

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Isawa
    Originally posted by lizardbones Turning off telegraphs being fun would depend a lot of how the rest of the mob's behavior is setup. If a fight is scripted, then it would be possible to learn the script, and without telegraphs beat the mob. If the mob itself has some physical behavior that players can learn, then they can react and beat the mob. However, if the mob's behavior is pretty random, and there's no indication, physical or otherwise of what the mob is doing, then the players are just randomly getting blind sided. Beating the mob would have less to do with the time spent working on it and the effort spent 'learning' the mob, and more to do with just random dice rolls. Personally, I'm not a fan of just randomly winning stuff.
    The game's mobs have physical movements prior to telegraphs. If you kill a couple versions of the same mob, you'll be able to spot their telegraph moves.

    Not all attacks are telegraphs, the enemies also have a version of auto-attacks that nearly always hit you - mainly depending on melee vs. range.




    That being the case, it would just be a personal preference. Turn them off for more challenge, keep them on to see what's going on. Even keep them on for the first couple of fights, and then turn them off.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Sho0terMcgavinSho0terMcgavin Harrisburg, PAPosts: 301Member
    Originally posted by lizardbones

     


    Originally posted by Isawa

    Originally posted by lizardbones Turning off telegraphs being fun would depend a lot of how the rest of the mob's behavior is setup. If a fight is scripted, then it would be possible to learn the script, and without telegraphs beat the mob. If the mob itself has some physical behavior that players can learn, then they can react and beat the mob. However, if the mob's behavior is pretty random, and there's no indication, physical or otherwise of what the mob is doing, then the players are just randomly getting blind sided. Beating the mob would have less to do with the time spent working on it and the effort spent 'learning' the mob, and more to do with just random dice rolls. Personally, I'm not a fan of just randomly winning stuff.
    The game's mobs have physical movements prior to telegraphs. If you kill a couple versions of the same mob, you'll be able to spot their telegraph moves.

     

    Not all attacks are telegraphs, the enemies also have a version of auto-attacks that nearly always hit you - mainly depending on melee vs. range.



    That being the case, it would just be a personal preference. Turn them off for more challenge, keep them on to see what's going on. Even keep them on for the first couple of fights, and then turn them off.

     

    shhhhh.... you are making too much sense.  I hear you get banned for that.

    image
  • ariestearieste toronto, ONPosts: 3,308Member Common

    I really don't get what the big deal is about being able to visually see where an AoE is hitting.  I find it to be rather better than traditional MMOs where you're just supposed to know distance and gtfo.

     

    TSW had action combat and telegraphs and it had some of the most fun, challenging and rewarding group encounters I've ever played through. 

     

    An example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sfjLyDFVUk

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  • rounnerrounner CanberraPosts: 603Member Uncommon
    The fight in that video would be impossible with the lag of an mmo.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by WW4BW

      Woah woah woah... Now hang on a minute.. Are red circles required for moves to be concidered telegraphed? Looked to me like the boss in the video was telegraphing plently with weapon windups and lifting his leg before doing that shockwave-leap move. The windups were so damn long that it looked stupid when the boss charged off in the opposite direction, because the player had so long to move around behind.

      In the game from the video you didnt really need a target indicator since you were the target. That is a bit different in MMOs. You can't always tell who the monster is going to hit. That said though I hate the stupid red circles too.

     

    +1 agreed. Everyone is bitching about telegraphs, but every single game that we play has some sort of telegraph. Just because Wildstar uses visual cues over voice, text, or attack patterns doesn't mean anything. If anything it means that they have an opportunity to deviate from the lather, rinse, repeat monotony present in nearly every single MMO (or even every game) on the market. Random attacks, random AoE damage areas, more intelligent mobs, what's wrong with that? If they stick to what they've said from the beginning and make Wildstar an extremely difficult MMO, chances are that you will need the telegraphs to be successful because, otherwise, you never know where an attack is going to hit, who it will hit, etc. At least that's what I'm hoping for.

    Crazkanuk

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  • TinybinaTinybina Boondocks, TXPosts: 2,130Member

    I'm going to love the "I keep getting kicked from instance grioups because I keep dying inside telegraphs" threads when this game launches.  Sure turn them off if you want too, but when your fighting a end boss and you keep standing still rather then move (like your playing that new Final fantasy) that is on you.

     

    ------------------------------
    You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith

  • udonudon Durham, NCPosts: 1,767Member Uncommon

    Have you ever tried to read a mobs animation telegraphs (yea they are still telegraphing) with 24 people stacked on top of it?  I have and what ends up happening is people either ignore it or someone has to call out in voice when it happens or everyone misses it.

    Animation telegraphs end up making group content a cluster unless the mobs are SO much larger and the animations are so much more over the top that players can see them.  I like them in single player games but where I have seen them used in MMO's I generally hate them. 

    Not that I love red circles on the ground but it is a much more practical system for multiplayer content.  One of my main concerns about Wildstar is circle overload in 40 man groups.  If you are seeing mob red telegraphs plus beneficial  blue player telegraphs from 40 people all fighting the same boss won't that become a bit confusing exactly what is going on?

  • ZenMorphZenMorph St Albans, WVPosts: 9Member
    I'm not understanding all the angst over telegraphs. On the list of things that make or break an mmo, this is way, way at the bottom.
  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member

    This video sum it up pretty well i say.

    When he jumps, you can see his shadow to see when he is about to fall on you. He is a giant golem so it's logic.

    Other than that, you can see all his skims before they hit even if it's your first time.

    An harder version of this boss would give you a very shorter time notice and it would either be nearly impossible or you would have to dodge very precisely.

     

    In conclusion, we don't need a telegraph system that wildstar use coz most games cameout with better ways to predict each enemies in a unique way for every single enemies type in a game.

    Telegraph should only be used for ongoing area of effects like a rain of fire or around a totem of heal.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

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