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[POLL] Should You Take Falling Damage in MMORPG's?

Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

There are several games released in recent times that have looked to alleviate the effects of terrain on movement and on gameplay tactics in a variety of ways. TSW ignores falling damage, Defiance does, RIFT experimented with it back in January, and here we have EQN providing glides and acrobatic leaps over great distances and tall cliff like features to turn terrain into artwork and jumping platforms. On the other hand, there are games like GW2 where a zerg dives over a cliff an inch too tall per say and you have one guy at the bottom counting all the corpses.

 

Which do you prefer and why? Should you take falling damage or is it and other such terrain effects in the way? Feel free to explain your point of view after voting below.

 

 

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Comments

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    It all depends on the design of the game. It seems to have been incorporated in most MMOs primarily as a penalty to deter terrain abuse when evading mobs or 'sneaking' into zones. If there's a gameplay use for it, I say go for it. If it's just to stop players from avoiding drawn out travel paths or breaking primitive mob behavior then I say I'd rather see better maps or mobs.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • NaqajNaqaj Frankfurt am MainPosts: 1,673Member

    I like an MMO to have falling damage if only to provide a reason for players to come up with neat tricks to prevent it. Using blink on my mage in WoW to survive falls was just fun, a little inconsequential trick that just felt immensely rewarding when pulled off correctly.

    The parkour style of EQN seems to go a little too far in that regard, but I'm not going to judge until I can experience it first hand.

  • CaldrinCaldrin CwmbranPosts: 4,533Member Uncommon

    All depends on the game and how they handle it... but for myself i think falling damage is a must..

    If they want a parkour system they should look at mirros edge.. but then again EQ:N is a fantasy game..

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member

    I will admit that after some thought that the issue goes deeper than the question asked in my personal view. One core issue I have with world design in MMORPGs right now is the fact that so many development teams are ignoring the various effects of terrain and treating the environment as nothing more than pretty art. Its like the modern Development teams see the world as nothing more than a basket for the critters and loot...,

     

    I think swampland and mud patches should suck at your characters feet halving their movement speed. I think Ice should be slippery potentially resulting in falls. I think trees and boulders should actually serve as cover against arrow shots and spells from a distance. Indeed, it would be nice to climb a tree in a game and snipe others. And yes all of this should create useful situations for WvW style PVP and even in PVE where tactics can start to mean something more than orderly button smashing in a stone circle.

     

    Even the levels of lighting in a dungeon environment should have an affect. How long has it been since we have seen a dungeon in an MMO where you are blind without a torch? I honestly believe the environment should be useful for the design or engagement of encounters in a game world rather than simply mood setting or art work on screen. I think NPCs should use terrain effects when defending their lairs in PVE too.

     

    So yes, I think there should be falling damage and potentially abilities to counter or abuse terrain effects for various character classes.  That's "my" personal view and others are entitled to their own.

     

    I been playing some retro RPGs like Eschalon lately and it was refreshing to see things like the level of light or bushes with sharp thorns affect my character and his ability to fight.

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 20,010Member Uncommon

    As I tend to prefer realism in MMO's when it makes sense, and probably because an early (and still) favorite game DAOC used it well, I voted yet.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,549Member Uncommon

    A MMORPG should have some basic "realistic" physics, and fall damage is one of those.

    Then of course, you have settings like EvE where fall damage doesn't make much sense - but generally, when it makes sense in the setting, it should exist. So in this game (EQN), there should be fall damage.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
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  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

     

    Yeah man. It covers for people that just want to see the results or just naturally  "waffle in the middle" ( ; ) without feeling strongly one way or the other be it for game fitting or just not caring if it all pans out fun. Yes and no covers for the more formed or set points of view. And of course it applies to game settings where falling damage could logically exist for a character.

     

    PS: And yes I think if you hit a planet in EVE you should go splat and there should be permadeath in 0.0 but this aint about EVE lol.

  • EnrifEnrif PforzheimPosts: 151Member Uncommon

    it depends on how far you can fall before taking damage.

    To short and it feels like a punishment to even try exploring unusual ways.

    to long and it feels like you are a bouncing ball.

    No fall damage at all gives extreme freedom of movement but without consequences at all.

     

    I would prefer some fall damage but not instantly punishing for short distances

  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon
    EQ did it just right for fall damage..  Unless you have skills such as a monk with safe fall.. It should be very possible to DIE from fall damage.. INCLUDING water :)
  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

    I liked how Deus Ex did falling damage. Initially you would take damage from a fall and probably die. However, if you got the right skills you could float down and take no damage. You could also do a stun that would affect a group of mobs when you hit. So I opted for "Undecided".

    I guess that would be falling while unprepared kills you, but falling while prepared does not.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    There should be more options.

    Different games should be different.

    For example an OW FFA full Loot PvP game should.

    CoH did, but would leave you with 1 hp no matter from what height, I liked this.

    I also like to see some variable damage from falling.

    But dying in a GW2 jumping puzzle will piss me off for sure.

  • BigmamajamaBigmamajama Houston, TXPosts: 198Member

    As developers continue to remove any sort of player challenge other than "double tapping" to avoid being hit, games continue to become simpler and simpler affairs.  Why bother with ground travel at all anymore?  Mounts are now available at level 1, quick travel points are everywhere,  just turn every game into a flight sim where your character is your aircraft, seems that's where things are headed with everyone flipping and flying around like tree monkeys on crack.

     

  • GamerBKMGamerBKM San Luis Obispo, CAPosts: 1Member

    It is an adamant "Yes!" from me. But then, I am always looking for games that immerse me into the world... Well, as much as I can be immersed into a fantasy.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways BangladeshPosts: 1,051Member Uncommon
    It all depends on the game's lore. For example : Rift, in Rift we play as ascended; immortal being who are risen from death again and again; if an immortal took damage from falling it would look ridiculous, so in case of Rift falling damage is not acceptable to me. now if we take WoW for example, we are just normal adventurers in WoW, so falling damage is normal here. so i will say it all depends on lore and such. 

    i want an open world, no phasing, no instancing.i want meaningful owpvp.i want player driven economy.i want meaningful crafting.i want awesome exploration, a sense of thrill.i want ow housing with a meaningful effect on my entire gameplay experience, not just some instanced crap.i want all of these free of cost, i don't wanna pay you a cent, game devs can eat grass and continue developing game for me.
    Seems like that is the current consensus of western mmo players.

  • NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

    here we have EQN providing glides and acrobatic leaps over great distances and tall cliff like features to turn terrain into artwork and jumping platforms.

    worth noting that both EQN characters were wearing Boots of the Zephyr

    http://www.reddit.com/r/EQNext/comments/1jsq8v/where_do_boots_of_the_zephyr_fit_in_are_magic/

     

  • AlleinAllein San Diego, CAPosts: 1,669Member Uncommon

    I like having falling damage and having to figure out how to get from A to B without dying.

    I can't find the link, but I believe Dave Georgeson made a reference to Safe Fall and gear effecting it during Gamescom or another recent interview. He may have just been using it as a reference, but it seemed like he was saying it was in EQN.

  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAPosts: 931Member Uncommon

    I had to vote Undecided.

    Fall damage will depend on the 'tone' of the RPG.   If the game is leaning towards a fantasy 'simulation' where there are systems to emulate a human body and the physics that affect it.   I would expect fall damage to be important there, just as asphyxiation would be.   EQ1 and LotRO are good examples of this.

    If the game is more lighthearted, the environmental physics don't need to be as important.  And the player probably doesn't notice it.   These types of games frequently feature abnormal physics -- in-air course changes or jumps that would make the Hulk struggle to keep up or just unprotected exposure to hard vacuum.

    So, as long as the in-game physics are consistent and the game is fun, my decision is totally going to depend on my mood at the time.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member

    I was, and still am, a fan of Lotro's falling damage system....you can die if you jump off of weathertop and don't hit anything on the way down...that is a long fall.

    But smaller falls (that are still 10 feet high or more, tend to just injure you in a way that makes you limp and hurts your defense for a certain small amount of time. I like this than a flat hp damage that healers can just heal out of or you grow so powerful that you just absorb it without caring, it also may actually be more punishing as it stops you from using unrealistic falls as short cuts.

     

    That being said TSW was fine with no falling damage because for the most part they didn't have huge drops anyway (there were a few dungeons however that used the no falling damage to good effect),

    Some games like wow had such odd terrain, such as the old thousand needles that you need falling damage to reinforce the idea of height, but in reality I don't think people "fall" as much as characters do in MMO's, real terrain isn't ...cliff...cliff...tree trunk...cliff, that these MMO's use to guide you through areas. Anyone who has been up a real mountain will tell you "falling" off is impossible unless you are on some kind of ledge or sheer face rock climbing....but so many MMO's make it where if you are walking the wrong way down a slope you start falling...and that is stupid.

     

    All that being said it really depends on the game, I loved Age of Wushu's system it created a dimension of movement unlike anything else I have ever played, but it was of course based off of Wire-fu movies and old Wushu/Wulin lore

    In that game falling only happened if you were not paying attention or got caught off guard by an attack

    http://youtu.be/q0bSmbWf5GM

     

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,680Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

    Yeah man. It covers for people that just want to see the results or just naturally  "waffle in the middle" ( ; ) without feeling strongly one way or the other be it for game fitting or just not caring if it all pans out fun. Yes and no covers for the more formed or set points of view. And of course it applies to game settings where falling damage could logically exist for a character.

    You'd do well in American politics.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Falling damage makes that great leap across the chasm in order to escape the orcs an exciting event.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

     

    Yeah man. It covers for people that just want to see the results or just naturally  "waffle in the middle" ( ; )

    I'm just remembering that mmorpg (as a genre) includes several superhero titles. Falling damage just doesn't make a lot of sense for a guy who typically bounces bullets off his chest (and terminal v. is waaaaaay slower than a bullet is).

    When you hop over to EvE...'falling' damage encompasses an entirely different set of issues (masses moving at v's unheard of in a plantetary frame of reference).

    I know, most of ya'll are thinking about cute little elves instead. But not all games are designed with high fantasy in mind....so....there just isn't an answer that makes sense for all systems, all of the time.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

     

    Yeah man. It covers for people that just want to see the results or just naturally  "waffle in the middle" ( ; )

    I'm just remembering that mmorpg (as a genre) includes several superhero titles. Falling damage just doesn't make a lot of sense for a guy who typically bounces bullets off his chest (and terminal v. is waaaaaay slower than a bullet is).

    When you hop over to EvE...'falling' damage encompasses an entirely different set of issues (masses moving at v's unheard of in a plantetary frame of reference).

    I know, most of ya'll are thinking about cute little elves instead. But not all games are designed with high fantasy in mind....so....there just isn't an answer that makes sense for all systems, all of the time.

     

    You are taking one line out of my post and quoting me out of context to make a point that was already addressed in the original post if perhaps not so eloquently. That's bad form in that you used me falsely to create a platform to trumpet at people from, perhaps in objection to the implications of the overwhelming poll results, rather than simply stating your case. Maybe you think its a bad poll on my part ( I will only cry a little while) by being too general while I might think some people simply don't want to be pinned down and are over complicating the issue while begging for an exception to save them from the tyranny of  a hard rule of law. It has been seen in every court where a traffic ticket is contested but it always comes down to a hard ruling determined by proving you exceeded a legal limit without a bribe or sympathy from the judge involved.

     

    I am glad you brought up superhero games on the market because overwhelmingly as a game genre they support falling damage even for their invulnerable characters that survive bullet storms. Champions Online is the perfect example where with the right power modifier you will knock superman from his perch high in the air only to see him pancake on the concrete and be knocked out of the fight for a time due to impact damage. And this represents the comics they are based on well. As a matter of fact when looking at CO one long standing complaint from players with game play is a silly, immersion breaking, bug they have never taken the time to fix from launch. When flying over the city the peon minions of the purple gang and other organizations will suddenly leap to the top of skyscrapers in an attempt to shoot you down but take absolutely no damage when "falling" back down to the street, a feat a player character "generally" can not match.

     

    I would dare say that even TSW in spite of their lore excuse to cover for an engine failing and particularly Defiance suffer from the lack of falling damage because it destroys the credibility of play. It makes sense for most games (not all if we go to silly extremes for this discussion) to include such consideration because we expect more from a world, an environment, created for an RPG than we would from an arcade game. 

  • GrayKodiakGrayKodiak Nada, FLPosts: 576Member
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
     

    I would dare say that even TSW in spite of their lore excuse to cover for an engine failing and particularly Defiance suffer from the lack of falling damage because it destroys the credibility of play. It makes sense for most games (not all if we go to silly extremes for this discussion) to include such consideration because we expect more from a world, an environment, created for an RPG than we would from an arcade game. 

    I disagree strongly with the idea that TSW suffers due to lack of falling damage, the landscape just isn't such that you would expect falling damage to occur, The largest falls I ever took in that game where in the PvP area where you spawn at a high point and jump down to enter the PvP area...which is designed that way...and one of the dungeons which has you falling LARGE distances to get from one area to the next...which again was designed, I can't recall a point in the landscape where I am walking around and fall 60 feet and marvel and the absurdity....

    ...now defiance on the other hand...there is some very vertical landscape areas..

     

    edit: Why in the world did you stick this poll in the EQ:N thread?

  • Crazy_StickCrazy_Stick Privacy Preferred, NCPosts: 1,059Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Crazy_Stick
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    I guess "undecided" is the equivalent of "depends on the system"?

    Yeah man. It covers for people that just want to see the results or just naturally  "waffle in the middle" ( ; ) without feeling strongly one way or the other be it for game fitting or just not caring if it all pans out fun. Yes and no covers for the more formed or set points of view. And of course it applies to game settings where falling damage could logically exist for a character.

    You'd do well in American politics.

     

    If I am being pushed into politics then I need a CAMPAIGN SPEECH.

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