Originally posted by Rockniss I agree. I said before leveling should just be a 10 to 20 hour tutorial that yku experience yet dont view as a tutorial. After that just let me play.
Just play LoL or some mmofps, and leave the mmorpgs with progression to people that enjoy it...
There are games that have tried the all end game kind of concept. The expansion for age of conan (Rise of the Godslayer) is effectively all endgame because they didn't increase the level cap but did increase the level of enemies up to 85. Futher content expansions to that game have followed a similar path by increasing the difficulty of enemies and dungeons but with no increase to the level cap.
GW2 also tried to keep all of its content valid by scaling characters to the zone. Although it failed because most people just did all the content in that zone once and then never came back again because there was no value in them doing so.
Why I think it is something that will work well is because the way things are at the moment you end up with 90% of the game being levelling content which immediately becomes obsolete once you hit max level. Regardless of what you do in a game it seems that eventually you are going to end up at the level cap and in endgame so it makes sense to design your game with most of the content at this endgame portion where players will spend most of their time.
As suggesting in a post above, I think a short 10-20 introduction to the game followed by a vast amount of endgame content would be the best way to go. Put in epic quests that span continents, make all dungeons and group content endgame only, and avoid the all-to-common scenario of levelling up in empty zones trying to find people to do low level dungeons or group quests.
I think things are trending this way already but the problem is and always has been (as far as I can tell) reducing the learning curb for new players. If you start with every accessible from day one it's alot more to take in on day one and risks overwhelming people.
Game developers are constantly talking about accessibility but if they could tackle that in the MMO space I think we would see a day one end game. The trend as it seems to me at the moment is to make the end game attainable quicker at the expense of a deeper end game. Not sure if that's a good thing.
There is more than one way for endgame to be deep. The learning curve can be overcome by not having it based around the player's abilities. Every player would have a few simple abilities that are all completely different, and the learning curve would come into play with dungeons of different difficulty levels, that are more or less forgiving of not using the right moves at the right times. Playing whack-a-mole with your rotation is not as deep as actually having to aim a fireball at a boss who is jumping around the room, or needing to hit a dispell immediately, just as a couple examples.
Originally posted by Rockniss I agree. I said before leveling should just be a 10 to 20 hour tutorial that yku experience yet dont view as a tutorial. After that just let me play.
Just play LoL or some mmofps, and leave the mmorpgs with progression to people that enjoy it...
There can be both.. there always was both.. so don't worry. Don't be afraid.. Everything will be alright.
I've been thinking that majority of themepark MMORPG's waste money on "content" that's blown through and largely never used again? The content is made so that while you level the difficulty doesn't rise much because your always going 1 to 1 as far as content level. Why not just make a game totally focused on the end game?
It seems the major sticking point for MMORPG's right now are the fact that the end games are kind of weak and the content is rehashed, easy and boring. Why not just make a game totally about raiding, monster hunting and the like? Dungeons that require lots of thought, planning, super huge, that have mystery, deadly traps, kidnappings, puzzles, climbing, stealth, nasty creatures etc . Outside legendary world creatures that are elusive, tricky and difficult to defeat. Gladatior style pvp battle arenas and battle grounds.
With horizontal progression you'd have a game where difficulty remains no matter how many expansions. You'd just be opening up specializations and utilities. Races would give you real physical attributes. You know like haflings are quick, elusive, the best climbers and jumpers but more fragile while Orc are the hardest hiting but slowest, best heavy armor wearers, humans are average at everything and etc.
I don't know I just thought of this while taking a shower so lol. I just think MMORPG's need to step out the box some. I would love to play a themepark styled game like that where you have to have tactics and planning and no cheesy fedex quest.
Hmm, would love to see a game like this. A lot of these racial differences remind me of good ole EQ 1.
Played a single player game called Shadow of the Colossus that I enjoyed a lot. Just had a simple story and the actions of the game involved exploration, parkour and giant bosses within the game to fight. That was your enemy, the terrain and the boss. Each boss has its own abilities and such providing different tactics for you to go against.
This does almost sound like EQN approach to some of what you listed, but that's more of a sandbox then a themepark.
I think this is a great idea, keep taking showers for more lol.
Originally, however, there was little incentive to return to lower level areas because they really didn't offer rewards comparable to higher leveled areas. The difficulty was similar, but not the risk:reward ratio.
They have taken steps to change this:
- Greens and golds dropping from any level creature
- Making lower tiered items more valuable as a method of increasing magic find
- Making killing champion tiered creatures (found in every zone) yield high level materials, karma, and gold
- Creating a daily reward chest for legendary creatures found in many zones.
- Having Living Story updates occur across the world.
- Adding more skills and weapon combos to EVERY class before the year's end
I also believe EQN is going to attempt to do something similiar, so give that a look as well.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
For all the time that people spend at end game, I think there's a desire and expectation that there be at least a token attempt to create a "world". It gives a context for the end game raiding or PvP.
But I think other people are right, there are already games that have something very close to just end game content.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think things are trending this way already but the problem is and always has been (as far as I can tell) reducing the learning curb for new players. If you start with every accessible from day one it's alot more to take in on day one and risks overwhelming people.
Game developers are constantly talking about accessibility but if they could tackle that in the MMO space I think we would see a day one end game. The trend as it seems to me at the moment is to make the end game attainable quicker at the expense of a deeper end game. Not sure if that's a good thing.
Well, you would still have progression just horizontal. So maybe you thief starts out with 5 skills, stealth, assination, duel wield, fencing and lock picking. Lets each skill is basic for what's needed but say lock picking when used enough opens up a branch skill behind it of say for trap detection or trap placement. And then trap detection opens up trap removal(disarm and claim) or trap rewire(now traps the NPCs). These skills while not making you get 20k hp nor powerful make you more diverse and useful.
Also I think developers can withhold a lot at the beginning while letting players earn their way to tough dungeons. You're just skipping the quest hub leveling part and progressing through the end game.
Again I agree with you OP. Looking back at EQ 1. You had to fight to level your skills. I think that horizontal progression could be applied to this as well. Even swimming (for certain races) you had to use to become better/faster at. I think this type of curb would allow new players become use to the game at a pace they make.
I've played on a couple private servers of games where everyone started at max level and they were very popular...Much more so than the normal servers.....The only problem was that everyone was already familiar with those games though...I understand what yo uare saying though...Alot of people here complain about leveling....You'd think by listening to them that max level at character creation would be the best solution for them.
Why not just have 100% end game? I'll tell you why. But first a clue..... Its the same reasons people don't jump into formula one cars and race the day after they get thier drivers license , and the same reason many other things require a type of Training Period before you get to the Big Stuff, or End Game. If a company designed a game with only end game, the market would be so small it wouldn't succeed . Games, to sell to as many as possible, have to have a , break into the game mechanics, type time of play to sell to the masses . Hence no direct to end game. For those of us who have gamed a while, this may seem a bit boring, but take it in stride, it also helps people learn to work together and build a solid community. Without this, games tend to fail, even good designed games. Here's 2 facts that haven't changed since online gaming started and i don't expect them to change anytime soon.....
1) Games are a BUSINESS, to make money. Not to be the best game .
2) Most people online game for socialization. Mmo's which fail at community, don't do well.
So be glad games don't start at the end!
Lol, lots of closed minded thinking.
1. You can make money it seems making any type of MMO.
2. There is no stopping people from socializing as if there is a lot of socializing in themeparks anyways.
The point of what I'm suggesting is not that OMG we're just getting Vox raid as soon as I log on. What I'm stating is that the instead of focusing on throw away 2 weeks to complete content that takes years to make and most players care little about it seems. Just focus on making a game based around dungeon raiding and monster hunting. You can still have progression into unlocking dungeons or finding monsters or obtaining items needed to expose a weakness. Again the point is just to skip the fedex, escort, give me 10 of quest.
Closed minded thinking? Really? ... I only stated Facts.
You suggest in your reply to " make a game based around dungeon raiding and monster hunting " without the
" Fedex, escort, give me 10 of a quest" . You've answered your original question.... Why not have 100% end game.
Answer - because gaming developers cant get around these boundries and have to use the current methods in the industry to achieve getting people to an end game. Fedex, escort, and 10 of a quest is some of the ways they achieve this. I do agree it could be done ALOT better as i believe was the intent of your posting.
Until games are designed for different input/output devices < currently keyboard and mouse or simple joysticks > programers are limited on what they can program as games to try to capture as many players as possible , to make the most money they can. { WoooosH!! - the sound of what i am talking about going right over your head }
Until other parts of our gaming experience expand more, the gaming industry as a whole, will continue the current paths as it is still the best business models for them to follow.
Yes people still find ways to socialize, however, in games where that is restricted or difficult, the game also suffers. This doesn't mean that if your game has good solid community based social design it will succeed, it means that if your game doesn't have this, it probably won't succeed, or do very well, even if it still makes the designers money.
It is possible to reuse content, like SWTOR's 'start each faction at the opposite end of the map' or you can buddie up and down players and so on. One to top level does not have to be a throw away run. Having said that, end game is a chasm which most MMO's really struggle with. You can start at end game like PS, but that's a MMOFPS, that solution is not so easy for a MMO.
Essentially if you go only for end game you loose a huge part of the RPG from the MMO equation. With RPG here referring to the progression of the character.
If that's not good enough for you, you could decide that 1 to 50 are a very long tutorial for your 100% End Game MMO.
Because there is a limit on resources, and devs can only put in so many skills and abilities. You can easily have infinite levels but it will be nothing but an increase in numerical power.
D3 expansion is trying that though .. infinite paragon levels. We will see if that turns out well.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal Let me put it differently since people seem to take a few words and make a conclusion. Why not focus on and fully fleshing out things that are typically the end game making that the journey of our characters instead of pushing us through tired and old content styles that's been so trivialized we get through it in a few weeks but take developers months or years to create.
I don't think it was jumping on a conclusion based on a few words... and yep, I agree with Picard, iixviiiix (and a bit with Adamantine, though 0% endgame would be harsh )
You know, the problem with "fully fleshing out things that are typically the end game" is that a lot of people find those things boring and dull. I admit I'm not an objective player neither, since I love the story and the journey part, building up my character and exploring the world. So the so-called "endgame" is for me, as iixviiiix wrote "the time to quit" - as in roll a new character or jump to an another game for a while. Unless there's no system to keep me in there, like rp-ing, Foundry, DOffing, etc.
Gear grind, raid treadmill and similar outdated stuff (which are only the residue from an era where games had to keep players occupied with the least amount of content) is no endgame for me - more precisely, no game at all, only a waste of time. But that's just me, as I wrote numerous times I too have many "living by the raid calendar"-type buddies
Tossing my hat in the ring with this crowd. There's a reason why so many players stop at about mid level or stop playing once they hit the cap, and it's that those are the two primary points where repetition sets in. That's when the end of the game hits for many.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I've been thinking that majority of themepark MMORPG's waste money on "content" that's blown through and largely never used again? The content is made so that while you level the difficulty doesn't rise much because your always going 1 to 1 as far as content level. Why not just make a game totally focused on the end game?
Uh? how is it wasted when players have fun going through it?
Is the content of a SP game "wasted" because someone finishes the game?
It is a MMO artifact that content needs to be repeated because devs cannot make enough for people to stay if they don't repeat.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I've been thinking that majority of themepark MMORPG's waste money on "content" that's blown through and largely never used again? The content is made so that while you level the difficulty doesn't rise much because your always going 1 to 1 as far as content level. Why not just make a game totally focused on the end game?
Uh? how is it wasted when players have fun going through it?
Is the content of a SP game "wasted" because someone finishes the game?
It is a MMO artifact that content needs to be repeated because devs cannot make enough for people to stay if they don't repeat.
The content and purpose of content is not the same in a single player game and an MMO. A MMO is a long term coat operation working within a limited base compared to a single player game. Having resources abandoned is not wise despite the fact that many games do. This failure has been covered by F2P.
The single player game is the content and its responsibility outside patches and DLC is done once sold. An MMO needs players long term to pay money for on going cost thus content must have players play and pay beyond the box sales if there are any. For the time being again F2P covers the weakness allowing a majority free loaders to populate the servers for whales to show off.
The content and purpose of content is not the same in a single player game and an MMO. A MMO is a long term coat operation working within a limited base compared to a single player game. Having resources abandoned is not wise despite the fact that many games do. This failure has been covered by F2P. The single player game is the content and its responsibility outside patches and DLC is done once sold. An MMO needs players long term to pay money for on going cost thus content must have players play and pay beyond the box sales if there are any. For the time being again F2P covers the weakness allowing a majority free loaders to populate the servers for whales to show off.
May be that should be revised.
The fact that leveling content is played only once (except alts) is evidence that devs disagree with you. They do put in one time content.
And no one says MMOs cannot charge for content. In fact, some do (like DDO).
What's strange is, I enjoy leveling more than most endgame activities. I've returned to an older version of a long running MMO because it takes time and effort to reach the cap.
To me the progression curve is what defines the genre and just not interested in skipping it to reach the end.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Unfurtunaly it will not work. You will have to many people complaining about lack of content. I mean that's already the case with themepark games where people complain about the lack of content. What do you think happens when they downgrade a MMORPG even more then current themeparks?
I think it should be done but done in the multiplayer scene, where you have FPS games but I feel there is room for Fantasy aswell. But working like your common FPS games. Which is kinda a game genre with 100% end game.
Originally posted by Kyleran What's strange is, I enjoy leveling more than most endgame activities. I've returned to an older version of a long running MMO because it takes time and effort to reach the cap.
To me the progression curve is what defines the genre and just not interested in skipping it to reach the end.
Same here, I even almost leave a MMO's when I hit end game, atleast in themepark games because endgame then turns into just a multiplayer game where the world doesn't really matter much anymore.
Originally posted by Kyleran What's strange is, I enjoy leveling more than most endgame activities. I've returned to an older version of a long running MMO because it takes time and effort to reach the cap.
To me the progression curve is what defines the genre and just not interested in skipping it to reach the end.
That's why i ask "wasn't end game mean time to quit" ,
we all love our journey to build up our character , but 100% end game mean no more journey or adventure .
But we all known that OP said about epic journey of our heroes (lol) , not end game where we kill each other for some PVP points.
Indeed like OP said , current MMOs waste a lots of fund , make some big map fill with mobs for only 5-20h (maybe less) and never be used again.
Maybe some high level mobs will move they home to those abandoned maps ... If they have brain.
Because no one will hunt them down in those maps lol.
I hear some big games (aka GW2 , EQN ect) are try to make the difference ,
but it they story and not we , we just love to take about how a game we will play should look like.
Because there is a limit on resources, and devs can only put in so many skills and abilities. You can easily have infinite levels but it will be nothing but an increase in numerical power.
D3 expansion is trying that though .. infinite paragon levels. We will see if that turns out well.
Thats awefully odd, ive played 2 games that didnt have a level limit on them, yet *gasps* they had levels!!!
however getting to those much higher levels would take a lifetime
But hell only reason more games dont have what seems like eternal AA's, merits, levels is that ppl are so damn worried about being on a fair playing feild.
"hes been playing for 7 years i have no chance to catch upto him! will you change the game for me?"
You whiney kids, always want instantly what took others years to obtain. (see ff exodus)
O
Destiny has cheated me By forcing me to decide upon The woman that I idolise Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete The opera that was captivating her But if I keep them, and she marries him Then he probably won't want me dating her
Because there is a limit on resources, and devs can only put in so many skills and abilities. You can easily have infinite levels but it will be nothing but an increase in numerical power.
D3 expansion is trying that though .. infinite paragon levels. We will see if that turns out well.
Thats awefully odd, ive played 2 games that didnt have a level limit on them, yet *gasps* they had levels!!!
however getting to those much higher levels would take a lifetime
But hell only reason more games dont have what seems like eternal AA's, merits, levels is that ppl are so damn worried about being on a fair playing feild.
"hes been playing for 7 years i have no chance to catch upto him! will you change the game for me?"
You whiney kids, always want instantly what took others years to obtain. (see ff exodus)
O
Which two games?
We are talking about games here. In a pvp game, wouldn't it be no fun if it is too lopsided (hence the "i have no chance to catch up" rant)?
Don't make it sound like you actually earn real achievements in games. Those are just illusions created by devs to keep you entertained.
Comments
I said before leveling should just be a 10 to 20 hour tutorial that yku experience yet dont view as a tutorial. After that just let me play.
Just play LoL or some mmofps, and leave the mmorpgs with progression to people that enjoy it...
There are games that have tried the all end game kind of concept. The expansion for age of conan (Rise of the Godslayer) is effectively all endgame because they didn't increase the level cap but did increase the level of enemies up to 85. Futher content expansions to that game have followed a similar path by increasing the difficulty of enemies and dungeons but with no increase to the level cap.
GW2 also tried to keep all of its content valid by scaling characters to the zone. Although it failed because most people just did all the content in that zone once and then never came back again because there was no value in them doing so.
Why I think it is something that will work well is because the way things are at the moment you end up with 90% of the game being levelling content which immediately becomes obsolete once you hit max level. Regardless of what you do in a game it seems that eventually you are going to end up at the level cap and in endgame so it makes sense to design your game with most of the content at this endgame portion where players will spend most of their time.
As suggesting in a post above, I think a short 10-20 introduction to the game followed by a vast amount of endgame content would be the best way to go. Put in epic quests that span continents, make all dungeons and group content endgame only, and avoid the all-to-common scenario of levelling up in empty zones trying to find people to do low level dungeons or group quests.
The Enlightened take things Lightly
There is more than one way for endgame to be deep. The learning curve can be overcome by not having it based around the player's abilities. Every player would have a few simple abilities that are all completely different, and the learning curve would come into play with dungeons of different difficulty levels, that are more or less forgiving of not using the right moves at the right times. Playing whack-a-mole with your rotation is not as deep as actually having to aim a fireball at a boss who is jumping around the room, or needing to hit a dispell immediately, just as a couple examples.
<.<
There can be both.. there always was both.. so don't worry. Don't be afraid.. Everything will be alright.
<.<
Hmm, would love to see a game like this. A lot of these racial differences remind me of good ole EQ 1.
Played a single player game called Shadow of the Colossus that I enjoyed a lot. Just had a simple story and the actions of the game involved exploration, parkour and giant bosses within the game to fight. That was your enemy, the terrain and the boss. Each boss has its own abilities and such providing different tactics for you to go against.
This does almost sound like EQN approach to some of what you listed, but that's more of a sandbox then a themepark.
I think this is a great idea, keep taking showers for more lol.
GW2 is doing this right now.
Originally, however, there was little incentive to return to lower level areas because they really didn't offer rewards comparable to higher leveled areas. The difficulty was similar, but not the risk:reward ratio.
They have taken steps to change this:
- Greens and golds dropping from any level creature
- Making lower tiered items more valuable as a method of increasing magic find
- Making killing champion tiered creatures (found in every zone) yield high level materials, karma, and gold
- Creating a daily reward chest for legendary creatures found in many zones.
- Having Living Story updates occur across the world.
- Adding more skills and weapon combos to EVERY class before the year's end
I also believe EQN is going to attempt to do something similiar, so give that a look as well.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
For all the time that people spend at end game, I think there's a desire and expectation that there be at least a token attempt to create a "world". It gives a context for the end game raiding or PvP.
But I think other people are right, there are already games that have something very close to just end game content.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Again I agree with you OP. Looking back at EQ 1. You had to fight to level your skills. I think that horizontal progression could be applied to this as well. Even swimming (for certain races) you had to use to become better/faster at. I think this type of curb would allow new players become use to the game at a pace they make.
Closed minded thinking? Really? ... I only stated Facts.
You suggest in your reply to " make a game based around dungeon raiding and monster hunting " without the
" Fedex, escort, give me 10 of a quest" . You've answered your original question.... Why not have 100% end game.
Answer - because gaming developers cant get around these boundries and have to use the current methods in the industry to achieve getting people to an end game. Fedex, escort, and 10 of a quest is some of the ways they achieve this. I do agree it could be done ALOT better as i believe was the intent of your posting.
Until games are designed for different input/output devices < currently keyboard and mouse or simple joysticks > programers are limited on what they can program as games to try to capture as many players as possible , to make the most money they can. { WoooosH!! - the sound of what i am talking about going right over your head }
Until other parts of our gaming experience expand more, the gaming industry as a whole, will continue the current paths as it is still the best business models for them to follow.
Yes people still find ways to socialize, however, in games where that is restricted or difficult, the game also suffers. This doesn't mean that if your game has good solid community based social design it will succeed, it means that if your game doesn't have this, it probably won't succeed, or do very well, even if it still makes the designers money.
It is possible to reuse content, like SWTOR's 'start each faction at the opposite end of the map' or you can buddie up and down players and so on. One to top level does not have to be a throw away run. Having said that, end game is a chasm which most MMO's really struggle with. You can start at end game like PS, but that's a MMOFPS, that solution is not so easy for a MMO.
Essentially if you go only for end game you loose a huge part of the RPG from the MMO equation. With RPG here referring to the progression of the character.
If that's not good enough for you, you could decide that 1 to 50 are a very long tutorial for your 100% End Game MMO.
Because there is a limit on resources, and devs can only put in so many skills and abilities. You can easily have infinite levels but it will be nothing but an increase in numerical power.
D3 expansion is trying that though .. infinite paragon levels. We will see if that turns out well.
Tossing my hat in the ring with this crowd. There's a reason why so many players stop at about mid level or stop playing once they hit the cap, and it's that those are the two primary points where repetition sets in. That's when the end of the game hits for many.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Uh? how is it wasted when players have fun going through it?
Is the content of a SP game "wasted" because someone finishes the game?
It is a MMO artifact that content needs to be repeated because devs cannot make enough for people to stay if they don't repeat.
Uh? how is it wasted when players have fun going through it?
Is the content of a SP game "wasted" because someone finishes the game?
It is a MMO artifact that content needs to be repeated because devs cannot make enough for people to stay if they don't repeat.
The content and purpose of content is not the same in a single player game and an MMO. A MMO is a long term coat operation working within a limited base compared to a single player game. Having resources abandoned is not wise despite the fact that many games do. This failure has been covered by F2P.The single player game is the content and its responsibility outside patches and DLC is done once sold. An MMO needs players long term to pay money for on going cost thus content must have players play and pay beyond the box sales if there are any. For the time being again F2P covers the weakness allowing a majority free loaders to populate the servers for whales to show off.
May be that should be revised.
The fact that leveling content is played only once (except alts) is evidence that devs disagree with you. They do put in one time content.
And no one says MMOs cannot charge for content. In fact, some do (like DDO).
To me the progression curve is what defines the genre and just not interested in skipping it to reach the end.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Unfurtunaly it will not work. You will have to many people complaining about lack of content. I mean that's already the case with themepark games where people complain about the lack of content. What do you think happens when they downgrade a MMORPG even more then current themeparks?
I think it should be done but done in the multiplayer scene, where you have FPS games but I feel there is room for Fantasy aswell. But working like your common FPS games. Which is kinda a game genre with 100% end game.
Please no more downgrading this genre.
Same here, I even almost leave a MMO's when I hit end game, atleast in themepark games because endgame then turns into just a multiplayer game where the world doesn't really matter much anymore.
That's why i ask "wasn't end game mean time to quit" ,
we all love our journey to build up our character , but 100% end game mean no more journey or adventure .
But we all known that OP said about epic journey of our heroes (lol) , not end game where we kill each other for some PVP points.
Indeed like OP said , current MMOs waste a lots of fund , make some big map fill with mobs for only 5-20h (maybe less) and never be used again.
Maybe some high level mobs will move they home to those abandoned maps ... If they have brain.
Because no one will hunt them down in those maps lol.
I hear some big games (aka GW2 , EQN ect) are try to make the difference ,
but it they story and not we , we just love to take about how a game we will play should look like.
Talk about waste of contents ,
OP , what do you think most waste here?
Quest (lore) story teller lol.
Monster design (a lots low lever monster)
Map and dungeon (instances)
Thats awefully odd, ive played 2 games that didnt have a level limit on them, yet *gasps* they had levels!!!
however getting to those much higher levels would take a lifetime
But hell only reason more games dont have what seems like eternal AA's, merits, levels is that ppl are so damn worried about being on a fair playing feild.
"hes been playing for 7 years i have no chance to catch upto him! will you change the game for me?"
You whiney kids, always want instantly what took others years to obtain. (see ff exodus)
O
Destiny has cheated me
By forcing me to decide upon
The woman that I idolise
Or the hands of an automaton
Without these hands I can't complete
The opera that was captivating her
But if I keep them, and she marries him
Then he probably won't want me dating her
Which two games?
We are talking about games here. In a pvp game, wouldn't it be no fun if it is too lopsided (hence the "i have no chance to catch up" rant)?
Don't make it sound like you actually earn real achievements in games. Those are just illusions created by devs to keep you entertained.