I have no problem with making people stick to thier roles. My beef is when I want to go questing ( lets use your WoW paladin for example) am I really going to quest as a holy pally?
Static roles would be great, but non dps roles need help when it comes to killing creatures on thier own. Even if you use a gear score and scale a spammable single attack to do average dps for that gear score. Unusable against player targets of course.
The one thing static roles did for community was make it easy for people to find a regular group. In this day in age, you can't just pic the class you know no one else wants to play but needs. No, in this day you have to work a little harder to find real friends that makeup your core group.
I don't know which way is best. I know one thing about EQ Next, im going to make the best of it either way.
Its obvious the most important skills will be linked to weapons. You probably won't get a full arsenal of arcane magic while wearing plate, as the powerful magic skills will be on the wand weapon for mage classes. You can choose to teleport instead of sash though. I think people are overestimating the dual class customisation.
Originally posted by Rydeson OMFG Liz.. I"m talking about the game EQN.. not that hobby mini tool Landmark... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr You do know there is a HUGE difference between the two.. right?
It's the same engine running both games. Landmark will be a testbed for EQN. If they can add continents in Landmark, they can add continents in EQN. They will not dynamically add continents in EQN, but they could design new continents and add them in or have them at launch, and allow players to swim between them or ride boats between them without loading screens. If they chose to. They might not.
I think it's a little to early to tell on the whole water thing. They might have water content, they might not. Nothing they've said about the game right now would let us know if it does or doesn't.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Rydeson OMFG Liz.. I"m talking about the game EQN.. not that hobby mini tool Landmark... Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr You do know there is a HUGE difference between the two.. right?
It's the same engine running both games. Landmark will be a testbed for EQN. If they can add continents in Landmark, they can add continents in EQN. They will not dynamically add continents in EQN, but they could design new continents and add them in or have them at launch, and allow players to swim between them or ride boats between them without loading screens. If they chose to. They might not.
I think it's a little to early to tell on the whole water thing. They might have water content, they might not. Nothing they've said about the game right now would let us know if it does or doesn't.
Landmark will have multiple landmasses. They will have the Norrath landmass in which you must conform to EQN style standards. Then they will have the other landmasses for doing pretty much whatever you want, from Dave "As long as customer service allows it". There will be a travel system to help move you around Norrath as well as between the other landmasses. However there has been no mention of Boats.
Finally if I remember correctly EQ1 didn't have vast oceans initially. The first expansion added that if I remeber correctly.
I've been playing this genre since Meridian 59 in the mid-90s. When I hear Dave Georgeson open his talk by pointing out that we've essentially been playing "a LOT of Dungeons and Dragons" I get excited.
Yeah, 4th edition. lol
Thats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I've been playing this genre since Meridian 59 in the mid-90s. When I hear Dave Georgeson open his talk by pointing out that we've essentially been playing "a LOT of Dungeons and Dragons" I get excited.
Yeah, 4th edition. lol
Thats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
Sorry to burst your bubble but they are making a "GAME".
Also they said during SOE Live that points to advance a tier can be spent on any unlocked class or skill, not just the one that trggered the tier upgrade.
I think that earning a new class should be a long hard process. Once you earn the class however why would it be so odd to be able to adjust your skills on the fly? Why would you unlearn something you certainly don't forget how to use that spell you are just swapping out to be able cast another spell.
I've been playing this genre since Meridian 59 in the mid-90s. When I hear Dave Georgeson open his talk by pointing out that we've essentially been playing "a LOT of Dungeons and Dragons" I get excited.
Yeah, 4th edition. lol
Thats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
Sorry to burst your bubble but they are making a "GAME".
Also they said during SOE Live that points to advance a tier can be spent on any unlocked class or skill, not just the one that trggered the tier upgrade.
I think that earning a new class should be a long hard process. Once you earn the class however why would it be so odd to be able to adjust your skills on the fly? Why would you unlearn something you certainly don't forget how to use that spell you are just swapping out to be able cast another spell.
Offcourse they are making a game, and thats what tempered my expectation a lot.... And they still dont realise that a game means nothing but a few months of fun, while creating virtual worlds will hold people much much longer.
if there is no character attachment, people looking for a virtual experience, like me, will probably not stay along to long, they will come, they will enjoy untill they realise its just a bunch of game mechanics and loose track of their character
and about the unlearning mechanic, its human nature to forget things they dont need or use anymore, and in fantasy games, wizzards needed to study their spells every day, because they wher so hard to learn that casting them removed them from memmory..
Some people playing mmos for over 15 years have realised what things keep them going and what things dont.... Everyone is different, there are people that just want a good game, but many many roleplayers want to be immersed in a world and their characters. And over the years we have noticed that certain things dont work for us.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
The more I read about these classes, the more is just sounds like you're unlocking skill tree abilities.. Having the title Mage should mean something, and to be able to earn points that can be used to advance another area such as "Warrior" is stupid.. I just don't see the logic on how playing a Mage makes me a stronger Warrior? /boggled...... That makes as much sense as being a Quarterback, but saying the more I take snaps, the better Defensive End I become..... HUHHHHH?????????
At times I don't know what direction they are going this game and how they come up with their reasoning..
The more I read about these classes, the more is just sounds like you're unlocking skill tree abilities.. Having the title Mage should mean something, and to be able to earn points that can be used to advance another area such as "Warrior" is stupid.. I just don't see the logic on how playing a Mage makes me a stronger Warrior? /boggled...... That makes as much sense as being a Quarterback, but saying the more I take snaps, the better Defensive End I become..... HUHHHHH?????????
At times I don't know what direction they are going this game and how they come up with their reasoning..
I think they realise the void at max level, where characters suddenly stop advancing, ( and quests and stories in general come to an end) and they are looking for answers to overcome this..... But the currently announced system still has its flaws for most of the players, this is one of those new flaws that probably needs a next step in evolution to notice...
or maybe they really listen to their playerbase...
because this is exactly the reason they once added AA points for, based on a lesson learned that people still need the feel of character progression at max level. Tough in a game like EQ2 this never leded to fully swapping out the way you played your character, it was just a slow evolution.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by grimgryphonOriginally posted by GnostikI've been playing this genre since Meridian 59 in the mid-90s. When I hear Dave Georgeson open his talk by pointing out that we've essentially been playing "a LOT of Dungeons and Dragons" I get excited.
Yeah, 4th edition. lolThats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
The immersion bit is subjective. For a lot of people not being able to slot in different cards to their deck would break immersion.
However, EQN is first and foremost a game. Trying to appeal to the limited audience of people who want a virtual world isn't going to pay the bills. That includes making things happen slowly. People would be OK with it the first time, but the second time they want to respec, or the third time? No, they would find something else to do.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Static roles would be great, but non dps roles need help when it comes to killing creatures on thier own. Even if you use a gear score and scale a spammable single attack to do average dps for that gear score. Unusable against player targets of course.
The one thing static roles did for community was make it easy for people to find a regular group. In this day in age, you can't just pic the class you know no one else wants to play but needs. No, in this day you have to work a little harder to find real friends that makeup your core group.
I don't know which way is best. I know one thing about EQ Next, im going to make the best of it either way.
It's the same engine running both games. Landmark will be a testbed for EQN. If they can add continents in Landmark, they can add continents in EQN. They will not dynamically add continents in EQN, but they could design new continents and add them in or have them at launch, and allow players to swim between them or ride boats between them without loading screens. If they chose to. They might not.
I think it's a little to early to tell on the whole water thing. They might have water content, they might not. Nothing they've said about the game right now would let us know if it does or doesn't.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Landmark will have multiple landmasses. They will have the Norrath landmass in which you must conform to EQN style standards. Then they will have the other landmasses for doing pretty much whatever you want, from Dave "As long as customer service allows it". There will be a travel system to help move you around Norrath as well as between the other landmasses. However there has been no mention of Boats.
Finally if I remember correctly EQ1 didn't have vast oceans initially. The first expansion added that if I remeber correctly.
Thats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Sorry to burst your bubble but they are making a "GAME".
Also they said during SOE Live that points to advance a tier can be spent on any unlocked class or skill, not just the one that trggered the tier upgrade.
I think that earning a new class should be a long hard process. Once you earn the class however why would it be so odd to be able to adjust your skills on the fly? Why would you unlearn something you certainly don't forget how to use that spell you are just swapping out to be able cast another spell.
Offcourse they are making a game, and thats what tempered my expectation a lot.... And they still dont realise that a game means nothing but a few months of fun, while creating virtual worlds will hold people much much longer.
if there is no character attachment, people looking for a virtual experience, like me, will probably not stay along to long, they will come, they will enjoy untill they realise its just a bunch of game mechanics and loose track of their character
and about the unlearning mechanic, its human nature to forget things they dont need or use anymore, and in fantasy games, wizzards needed to study their spells every day, because they wher so hard to learn that casting them removed them from memmory..
Some people playing mmos for over 15 years have realised what things keep them going and what things dont.... Everyone is different, there are people that just want a good game, but many many roleplayers want to be immersed in a world and their characters. And over the years we have noticed that certain things dont work for us.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
good post Lord.. I agree..
The more I read about these classes, the more is just sounds like you're unlocking skill tree abilities.. Having the title Mage should mean something, and to be able to earn points that can be used to advance another area such as "Warrior" is stupid.. I just don't see the logic on how playing a Mage makes me a stronger Warrior? /boggled...... That makes as much sense as being a Quarterback, but saying the more I take snaps, the better Defensive End I become..... HUHHHHH?????????
At times I don't know what direction they are going this game and how they come up with their reasoning..
I think they realise the void at max level, where characters suddenly stop advancing, ( and quests and stories in general come to an end) and they are looking for answers to overcome this..... But the currently announced system still has its flaws for most of the players, this is one of those new flaws that probably needs a next step in evolution to notice...
or maybe they really listen to their playerbase...
because this is exactly the reason they once added AA points for, based on a lesson learned that people still need the feel of character progression at max level. Tough in a game like EQ2 this never leded to fully swapping out the way you played your character, it was just a slow evolution.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Thats funny, really funny, because this is exactly the same reason why i dont like 4 th edition...
i totally agree with the OP, rebuilding classes on the fly destroys all the immersion in a character for me, it turns a virtual world experience intoo a game...
There are solutions that however give you both the ultimate freedom of choice and a way to ( slowly) respec your character.. You could just unlearn certain things ( regaining XP at normal leveling speed) and slowly pump them in anoher tree or class or whatever system you have... If you combine this with a system where having all is not possible ... Far fom that, character depth is created by forcing players to make deep choices...
This way one character could experience it all, at a slow pace, keep the chatacter continously changing if they wanted it to be but the overall feel of character attachment would keep excisting.
So basically the 40 classes would turn intoo skilltrees which you learn or unlearn ....
the OP really got a full point here, giving it all to characters and allowing people to change at the fly will kill most of the virtual world feeling and character immersion and turn EQN intoo just another game..
The immersion bit is subjective. For a lot of people not being able to slot in different cards to their deck would break immersion.
However, EQN is first and foremost a game. Trying to appeal to the limited audience of people who want a virtual world isn't going to pay the bills. That includes making things happen slowly. People would be OK with it the first time, but the second time they want to respec, or the third time? No, they would find something else to do.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.