The only ones that whine about subs (and really just paying for their experience in general) are the leeches. F2P/B2P is not a model, it doesn't support and/or further the game and the best part of a sub is that it gets rid of the majority of you that are just there to play for free. Also, without having to buy the game, sub, etc... there are no real consequences for people that are there only to ruin the game for others, as they can always just make another account, which trolls love to point out.
So...keep crying, doesn't matter and it won't go F2P just because you "predict it". Sorry you can't afford a nominal amount of money, if you even THINK about spending $20 then you probably should find another hobby. Like trying to be a "thrifty" car enthusiast.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
So which B2P MMOs, other than your imaginary ones, exist today with no cash shop, crippled banks, crippled inventories, character slots, etc.
And why do you keep bringing up GW1? Do you really think that was an MMO? Is Diablo an MMO to you too?
Name a current MMO that isn't GW2 with a B2P model and no cash shop.
You can't, can you? Which is why you keep spouting nonsense and using red herrings and insults to try to steer discussion in a different direction.
The reason everyone, except you, immediately thinks of GW2 when the B2P term gets thrown out is pretty obvious: because it's the only one.
So I'm waiting for examples... even one that is only available is some provinces of Mongolia will do at this point.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I'm not going to playing this for a few reasons number one being I like large organised raiding content at end game and they have clearly stated a few times its not a focus of their game.
Just a second note people that are saying it will be F2P in 6-12 months the lead developer has stated that there is absolutely no way this game could survive as free to play how true this is or not we will see but seeing him talk about it gave me the feeling subscription works or the game fails .
Totally valid point if raiding is your thing. It never was mine, but they are working on Adventure Zones I believe they are called for that type of perhaps 24 player model..it just may not be ready by release..they haven't decided...so you may be a good candidate once they do release that type of gameplay. Don't give up hope yet :-) lol.
I have no problem paying a sub for a game that is worth it. If this game turns out to be as awesome as it sounds then heck yes I will be buying it (and paying the sub!).
I don't like the combat plain and simple. If they can't make it exactly like the other elder scrolls, they shouldn't make an MMO on it.
It is very very close to that. The differences are so minor. To not like it for those minor differences is a little silly frankly.
I can't say I agree with you, I wish I could say why, but it's I'm not risking a lawsuit over some game. Just saying, I'm passing on this game if it stays sub. But by all means, play if you like it.
I went from "HELL NO" to "yeah most likely will" due to them making it P2P and when they finally added proper first person view.
My only complaint is the $60 box cost. Which I will decide if it's worth it when I get into some form of beta. (And if I don't get in, I'll wait till the game reaches the bargin-bin or some sort of sale at under $30.)
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Originally posted by Keylogger_007 I have no respect for P2W, F2P or itam mall korean games, nor will I support them. P2P is the only way I'll pick one up as a serious attempt for play. That said I'm not buying shit until I get to play it for 20h+ at least.
Exactly, this is what everyone should be talking about. Once the Beta comes out we can all decide for ourselves, the pay model wont matter if the person likes the game, they will find a way to pay for it.
And its always a good idea to wait a month or so after launch, this should be common sense to everyone by now, I hope.
No for FFXIV, no for this. Both are shaping up to be lovely, but I detest the tether of a mandatory sub in order to play my personal character in the game world. It takes a lot of enjoyment out for me when I'm having to rent something I bought. I'd absolutely do "B2P" as the formerly standard-practice marketing model(For most) is now termed for games. F2P as well, because why not as it wouldn't be asking anything of you to try it out.
I'll definitely try the game at some point. The payment model doesn't really matter to me as much as the game itself. If the game's good then I might be playing it for a long time whether it's F2P, P2P or something else entirely.
So which B2P MMOs, other than your imaginary ones, exist today with no cash shop, crippled banks, crippled inventories, character slots, etc.
And why do you keep bringing up GW1? Do you really think that was an MMO? Is Diablo an MMO to you too?
Name a current MMO that isn't GW2 with a B2P model and no cash shop.
You can't, can you? Which is why you keep spouting nonsense and using red herrings and insults to try to steer discussion in a different direction.
The reason everyone, except you, immediately thinks of GW2 when the B2P term gets thrown out is pretty obvious: because it's the only one.
So I'm waiting for examples... even one that is only available is some provinces of Mongolia will do at this point.
I brought up GW1 just in that post. I hardly call that keep bringing it up.
As for naming another MMO, you are right, I can't because it doesn't exist. That doesn't mean the current games are doing it right though. Clearly they are not. However, a B2P model, all it means is that you buy the game initially. Just because an mmo does not exist currently that "just" does that, does not mean the entire model is crap.
Example: A company could come along one day and release a B2P game that doesn't have a cash shop. Just like a company can come along and create a P2P that has a cash shop. A company can come along and add anything they like to the model they are using or subtract anything they like. Heck, A company could release a F2P that has no cash shop at all. I already know 1 game that does that. Though it's kinda crappy lol.
The point is, a true B2P model is what single player games use. This is the model I am talking about. Just because no MMO uses it, does not mean it doesn't exist.
Instead of attacking the models directly, attack the companies that add a cash shop onto the models. Hate the cash shop, not the pay model. Hate the source of the problem.
I personally don't mind cash shops, but I certainly don't care if someone hates them. People have a good reason to hate cash shops and I can't disagree with you on the part. However, the whole idea behind B2P has nothing to do with a cash shop. That is where you seem to be stuck. Just because all current B2P mmos use a cash shop, doesn't mean they HAVE to.
That is the point I am trying to get across. If you still don't get what I mean, then I really don't know what else to tell you.
Anyway, case and point, F2P is not the same as B2P. I don't care how you try to explain it. 1 does not equal 2, and never will no matter what you say. ESO could have used a B2P model with out a cash shop and release DLC to make up for it and keep the game going. It would be no different then the model they use for their single player games. The IP is popular enough to be able to do this with ease.
Many companies are going F2P because they find it works well. Those who say only crappy games go F2P .. tell that to Valve and TF2 because they would like to have a word with you. Actually, they where kinda shocked themselves that a F2P game could make.
First off TF2 cost money to being with. Secondly its a fps game not an mmorpg. Subs are always better than f2p mmorgs.
14$/month is totally worth it for a good game. It`s like164$ a year so basically nothing for anyone working.
I totally agree with the guys before me... subscription games have a better comunity...
I will play it in beta before anyway but if it`s like Skyrim i will buy and play it for a while anyway. I wanted a game i could use Mouse 2 to block since.... 4ever.....
Originally posted by HikaruShidouI don't like the combat plain and simple. If they can't make it exactly like the other elder scrolls, they shouldn't make an MMO on it.
It is very very close to that. The differences are so minor. To not like it for those minor differences is a little silly frankly.
I can't say I agree with you, I wish I could say why, but it's I'm not risking a lawsuit over some game. Just saying, I'm passing on this game if it stays sub. But by all means, play if you like it.
personally, i am glad it isn't exactly like the single player ES games, the combat in those games is what i like the least about them.
ESO's combat system seems to have a lot more going on than just clicking your mouse relentlessly.
Many companies are going F2P because they find it works well. Those who say only crappy games go F2P .. tell that to Valve and TF2 because they would like to have a word with you. Actually, they where kinda shocked themselves that a F2P game could make.
First off TF2 cost money to being with. Secondly its a fps game not an mmorpg. Subs are always better than f2p mmorgs.
"First off TF2 cost money to being with." ... I can't seem to make sense of this sentence. I am guess you typed something wrong there. Either that, or I am reading it wrong.
Also, who cares if it's a fps game. Why does genre matter? A F2P game is a F2P game. I am talking about the F2P model in general, not just for MMOs. The point I am making is that the F2P model works well. Again, doesn't matter what you personally think, all that matters is numbers.
Subs are always better? Right and that is why every company uses that model. I see your proof is substantial compared to mine. Good job . I see you must be so much smarter then me. =^.^=.
I suppose this means you also must be smarter then all the companies using the F2P model. Why don't you own a game company, when you are soooooo smart and intuitive?
You proved to me that, you are sooo right. I really should think before I speak.
*coughs*
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Brabbit1987
...stuff...
So which B2P MMOs, other than your imaginary ones, exist today with no cash shop, crippled banks, crippled inventories, character slots, etc.
And why do you keep bringing up GW1? Do you really think that was an MMO? Is Diablo an MMO to you too?
I brought up GW1 just in that post. I hardly call that keep bringing it up.
Regardless of whether one considers Guild Wars an mmo (or corpg) and regardless of whether it really matters, Guild Wars does have a cash shop.
Never said it didn't o.o, but thanks for correcting nothing I guess.
It's pretty amazing how many people show me how smart they are in a single day. Sometimes it makes me feel real stupid. I should study more, and probably should up my reading level a bit.
Never said it didn't o.o, but thanks for correcting nothing I guess.
It's pretty amazing how many people show me how smart they are in a single day. Sometimes it makes me feel real stupid. I should study more, and probably should up my reading level a bit.
Well then I have to apologize I went off his post and the post directly after and inferred something I shouldn't. Cheerfully withdrawn!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Never said it didn't o.o, but thanks for correcting nothing I guess.
It's pretty amazing how many people show me how smart they are in a single day. Sometimes it makes me feel real stupid. I should study more, and probably should up my reading level a bit.
Well then I have to apologize I went off his post and the post directly after and inferred something I shouldn't. Cheerfully withdrawn!
Apology accepted .. and I sort of thought that is what you did XD. I noticed it seemed like that if you didn't read back far enough. The good news is it seems I scared off everyone from arguing with me lol XD. Makes me feel like I can relax now when I visit these forums.
Never said it didn't o.o, but thanks for correcting nothing I guess.
It's pretty amazing how many people show me how smart they are in a single day. Sometimes it makes me feel real stupid. I should study more, and probably should up my reading level a bit.
Well then I have to apologize I went off his post and the post directly after and inferred something I shouldn't. Cheerfully withdrawn!
Apology accepted .. and I sort of thought that is what you did XD. I noticed it seemed like that if you didn't read back far enough. The good news is it seems I scared off everyone from arguing with me lol XD. Makes me feel like I can relax now when I visit these forums.
You'll find no room for relaxing in these parts, mate. We still a ton of irrational people ready to bring up arms and spend the rest of their days arguing over nothing. I'm looking at you, TheScavenger!
To be frank, Guild Wars 2 is so good as a B2P game that any future MMOG will have to be absolute Dynamite for me to even consider paying to play it. I spent years in WoW paying a sub to sit around in cities waiting on a queue. I'll never do anything like that again and I'll probably never play another P2P MMOG again.
It isn't about the money, it's about the choice. GW2 gives me a AAA game that I can 'choose' to spend money on if I want cosmetic goodies. A P2P game that isn't as good (IMHO few games ever have been as good as GW2) that requires me to pay them to even access? No, never again unless that game is astoundingly good.
So I voted no. From what I have seen the game doesn't look that good but I'd have tried it if it were B2P or F2P. But I'm not paying $60 to demo a mediocre MMOG.
Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it
It's the same with ESO you pay 40-50 $, then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.
So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.
To be frank, Guild Wars 2 is so good as a B2P game that any future MMOG will have to be absolute Dynamite for me to even consider paying to play it. I spent years in WoW paying a sub to sit around in cities waiting on a queue. I'll never do anything like that again and I'll probably never play another P2P MMOG again.
It isn't about the money, it's about the choice. GW2 gives me a AAA game that I can 'choose' to spend money on if I want cosmetic goodies. A P2P game that isn't as good (IMHO few games ever have been as good as GW2) that requires me to pay them to even access? No, never again unless that game is astoundingly good.
So I voted no. From what I have seen the game doesn't look that good but I'd have tried it if it were B2P or F2P. But I'm not paying $60 to demo a mediocre MMOG.
Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it
It's the same with ESO you pay 40-50 $, then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.
So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.
If you "ONLY"? Sorry to say, that is a huge difference and you can't just apply a rule to change it. What if you want to play MORE then 1 month? Is it the same price then?
The difference is, one game you can play forever with out a time limit if you so choose for the price of $60. The other you have a limit of 1 month, and can never play the game again unless you pay the sub. I don't see how you call that NO difference. o.o
Even if you do decide to really only play the game for 1 month there STILL is a difference. That difference is, I can pick up one of these games at any time and play it even after that month, and the other I can't. The difference is capability. The difference is as clear as day. The difference is not very hard to miss.
I'm honestly looking forward to a subscription game again. In the past (on average) games I have subbed to had more content updates, better content and (on average) a stronger community.
The last few shops introduced into MMOs have left a bad taste in my mouth. I am looking at you SWTOR and Neverwinter. Both of those shops are out of control and real money effects the economy and in some cases the power of the players, entirely to much.
Comments
The only ones that whine about subs (and really just paying for their experience in general) are the leeches. F2P/B2P is not a model, it doesn't support and/or further the game and the best part of a sub is that it gets rid of the majority of you that are just there to play for free. Also, without having to buy the game, sub, etc... there are no real consequences for people that are there only to ruin the game for others, as they can always just make another account, which trolls love to point out.
So...keep crying, doesn't matter and it won't go F2P just because you "predict it". Sorry you can't afford a nominal amount of money, if you even THINK about spending $20 then you probably should find another hobby. Like trying to be a "thrifty" car enthusiast.
Just because every car has similar features doesn't mean that Ferraris are copies of Model Ts. Progress requires failure and refining.
So which B2P MMOs, other than your imaginary ones, exist today with no cash shop, crippled banks, crippled inventories, character slots, etc.
And why do you keep bringing up GW1? Do you really think that was an MMO? Is Diablo an MMO to you too?
Name a current MMO that isn't GW2 with a B2P model and no cash shop.
You can't, can you? Which is why you keep spouting nonsense and using red herrings and insults to try to steer discussion in a different direction.
The reason everyone, except you, immediately thinks of GW2 when the B2P term gets thrown out is pretty obvious: because it's the only one.
So I'm waiting for examples... even one that is only available is some provinces of Mongolia will do at this point.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Totally valid point if raiding is your thing. It never was mine, but they are working on Adventure Zones I believe they are called for that type of perhaps 24 player model..it just may not be ready by release..they haven't decided...so you may be a good candidate once they do release that type of gameplay. Don't give up hope yet :-) lol.
There Is Always Hope!
P2P is the only way I'll pick one up as a serious attempt for play.
That said I'm not buying shit until I get to play it for 20h+ at least.
I don't like the combat plain and simple. If they can't make it exactly like the other elder scrolls, they shouldn't make an MMO on it.
It is very very close to that. The differences are so minor. To not like it for those minor differences is a little silly frankly.
There Is Always Hope!
I can't say I agree with you, I wish I could say why, but it's I'm not risking a lawsuit over some game. Just saying, I'm passing on this game if it stays sub. But by all means, play if you like it.
I went from "HELL NO" to "yeah most likely will" due to them making it P2P and when they finally added proper first person view.
My only complaint is the $60 box cost. Which I will decide if it's worth it when I get into some form of beta. (And if I don't get in, I'll wait till the game reaches the bargin-bin or some sort of sale at under $30.)
To find an intelligent person in a PUG is not that rare, but to find a PUG made up of "all" intelligent people is one of the rarest phenomenons in the known universe.
Exactly, this is what everyone should be talking about. Once the Beta comes out we can all decide for ourselves, the pay model wont matter if the person likes the game, they will find a way to pay for it.
And its always a good idea to wait a month or so after launch, this should be common sense to everyone by now, I hope.
I brought up GW1 just in that post. I hardly call that keep bringing it up.
As for naming another MMO, you are right, I can't because it doesn't exist. That doesn't mean the current games are doing it right though. Clearly they are not. However, a B2P model, all it means is that you buy the game initially. Just because an mmo does not exist currently that "just" does that, does not mean the entire model is crap.
Example: A company could come along one day and release a B2P game that doesn't have a cash shop. Just like a company can come along and create a P2P that has a cash shop. A company can come along and add anything they like to the model they are using or subtract anything they like. Heck, A company could release a F2P that has no cash shop at all. I already know 1 game that does that. Though it's kinda crappy lol.
The point is, a true B2P model is what single player games use. This is the model I am talking about. Just because no MMO uses it, does not mean it doesn't exist.
Instead of attacking the models directly, attack the companies that add a cash shop onto the models. Hate the cash shop, not the pay model. Hate the source of the problem.
I personally don't mind cash shops, but I certainly don't care if someone hates them. People have a good reason to hate cash shops and I can't disagree with you on the part. However, the whole idea behind B2P has nothing to do with a cash shop. That is where you seem to be stuck. Just because all current B2P mmos use a cash shop, doesn't mean they HAVE to.
That is the point I am trying to get across. If you still don't get what I mean, then I really don't know what else to tell you.
Anyway, case and point, F2P is not the same as B2P. I don't care how you try to explain it. 1 does not equal 2, and never will no matter what you say. ESO could have used a B2P model with out a cash shop and release DLC to make up for it and keep the game going. It would be no different then the model they use for their single player games. The IP is popular enough to be able to do this with ease.
First off TF2 cost money to being with. Secondly its a fps game not an mmorpg. Subs are always better than f2p mmorgs.
MurderHerd
14$/month is totally worth it for a good game. It`s like164$ a year so basically nothing for anyone working.
I totally agree with the guys before me... subscription games have a better comunity...
I will play it in beta before anyway but if it`s like Skyrim i will buy and play it for a while anyway. I wanted a game i could use Mouse 2 to block since.... 4ever.....
Now give me my beta invite....
Regardless of whether one considers Guild Wars an mmo (or corpg) and regardless of whether it really matters, Guild Wars does have a cash shop.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_Wars_In-Game_Store#Products
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
personally, i am glad it isn't exactly like the single player ES games, the combat in those games is what i like the least about them.
ESO's combat system seems to have a lot more going on than just clicking your mouse relentlessly.
"First off TF2 cost money to being with." ... I can't seem to make sense of this sentence. I am guess you typed something wrong there. Either that, or I am reading it wrong.
Also, who cares if it's a fps game. Why does genre matter? A F2P game is a F2P game. I am talking about the F2P model in general, not just for MMOs. The point I am making is that the F2P model works well. Again, doesn't matter what you personally think, all that matters is numbers.
Subs are always better? Right and that is why every company uses that model. I see your proof is substantial compared to mine. Good job
. I see you must be so much smarter then me. =^.^=.
I suppose this means you also must be smarter then all the companies using the F2P model. Why don't you own a game company, when you are soooooo smart and intuitive?
You proved to me that, you are sooo right. I really should think before I speak.
*coughs*
Never said it didn't o.o, but thanks for correcting nothing I guess.
It's pretty amazing how many people show me how smart they are in a single day. Sometimes it makes me feel real stupid. I should study more, and probably should up my reading level a bit.
Well then I have to apologize I went off his post and the post directly after and inferred something I shouldn't. Cheerfully withdrawn!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Apology accepted .. and I sort of thought that is what you did XD. I noticed it seemed like that if you didn't read back far enough. The good news is it seems I scared off everyone from arguing with me lol XD. Makes me feel like I can relax now when I visit these forums.
You'll find no room for relaxing in these parts, mate. We still a ton of irrational people ready to bring up arms and spend the rest of their days arguing over nothing. I'm looking at you, TheScavenger!
Look dude, from what I can tell you still have to PAY for GW2 , so you payed 60 $ for GW2 and played it..Only diffrence you will not be subscribing to it
It's the same with ESO you pay 40-50 $, then consider if you wan't a subscription or not , there is ALWAYS a month included in the base game purchase.
So..If you ONLY play these games for a month there really is NO diffrence in price at all.
If you "ONLY"? Sorry to say, that is a huge difference and you can't just apply a rule to change it. What if you want to play MORE then 1 month? Is it the same price then?
The difference is, one game you can play forever with out a time limit if you so choose for the price of $60. The other you have a limit of 1 month, and can never play the game again unless you pay the sub. I don't see how you call that NO difference. o.o
Even if you do decide to really only play the game for 1 month there STILL is a difference. That difference is, I can pick up one of these games at any time and play it even after that month, and the other I can't. The difference is capability. The difference is as clear as day. The difference is not very hard to miss.
So how did you?
I'm honestly looking forward to a subscription game again. In the past (on average) games I have subbed to had more content updates, better content and (on average) a stronger community.
The last few shops introduced into MMOs have left a bad taste in my mouth. I am looking at you SWTOR and Neverwinter. Both of those shops are out of control and real money effects the economy and in some cases the power of the players, entirely to much.
Bring on the sub.