Originally posted by boxsnd It's sad that some devs seem to not be able to learn. No P2P MMO released after 2004 survived, yet they still try.
Aion is P2P(Asia markets) came after 2004 and makes more money than any western MMO currently except WoW. GW2 last quarter was equal to Aion acording to NC, thanks to royalties.
Aion is F2P now.
NA/EU are not Asian markets. Aion makes over $5 million USD a month thanks to P2P in east.
That's because Aion in Asia is like WoW is here in NA/EU. Two different worlds.
Originally posted by boxsnd It's sad that some devs seem to not be able to learn. No P2P MMO released after 2004 survived, yet they still try.
Aion is P2P(Asia markets) came after 2004 and makes more money than any western MMO currently except WoW. GW2 last quarter was equal to Aion acording to NC, thanks to royalties.
Aion is F2P now.
NA/EU are not Asian markets. Aion makes over $5 million USD a month thanks to P2P in east.
That's because Aion in Asia is like WoW is here in NA/EU. Two different worlds.
lol your post makes no sense, just like your entire stance and the fact that you created a 2nd thread when there's already a long discussion going on that you participated in on the exact same discussion
you just made another thread cause people were crushing you with logic in the other thread so you wanted to try again in a new thread.
The players have spoken, we are getting our pay model back.
There are lots of reasons the P2P model is better.
For me its the community. This model weeds out the kiddies and many griefers, hackers who are not willing to pay money just to mess with you.
F2P games however, attract all of those types, and I'm so glad I wont be seeing them in ESO
This made me LOL hard. It was almost like reading an article by Glenn Beck.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Why do they even try or bother with P2P, why not make it B2P at release. Most likely all of the new mmorpgs that are P2P will go over to B2P or F2P in a few months. No one wants to pay monthly for a game, there's a few who would but those are a minority and the majority wins every time and still developers want P2P. For what reason?
Don't worry. Sub-only MMO is in decline. Most MMOs will be either B2P or f2P.
Sub only is not in decline . The last four MMOs that are gonna be released next are all sub based and even EQN will have sub options. I see no AAA MMOs That are any good ever being produced again as F2P . F2P was a experiment that worked great for a while but it just ain't making the profits it was. Finally players have realised they don't want crap content and pay hundreds to play just to suport all the free loaders.
Why do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
So they can feel better about the time they invested in the games that they enjoy but doesn't get as much attention or money as other games that they hate.
Originally posted by Sephiroso Originally posted by FoomerangWhy do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
So they can feel better about the time they invested in the games that they enjoy but doesn't get as much attention or money as other games that they hate. thats...disturbing lol
Originally posted by udon Originally posted by FoomerangWhy do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
Three games. FF XIV is sub only to. It went even farther with no cash shop at all.
Wildstar we know will have a Sub plus cash shop with real world money to game currency conversion.
TSO we know will have a Sub but don't know about the cash shop yet.
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.
Why do they even try or bother with P2P, why not make it B2P at release. Most likely all of the new mmorpgs that are P2P will go over to B2P or F2P in a few months. No one wants to pay monthly for a game, there's a few who would but those are a minority and the majority wins every time and still developers want P2P. For what reason?
Don't worry. Sub-only MMO is in decline. Most MMOs will be either B2P or f2P.
Sub only is not in decline . The last four MMOs that are gonna be released next are all sub based and even EQN will have sub options. I see no AAA MMOs That are any good ever being produced again as F2P . F2P was a experiment that worked great for a while but it just ain't making the profits it was. Finally players have realised they don't want crap content and pay hundreds to play just to suport all the free loaders.
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.
Yeah. Most MMOs are not sub-only anymore.
There is no need for concern. In fact, there is so much free content that my problem is to find time to enjoy them.
Originally posted by FoomerangWhy do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
Three games. FF XIV is sub only to. It went even farther with no cash shop at all.
Wildstar we know will have a Sub plus cash shop with real world money to game currency conversion.
TSO we know will have a Sub but don't know about the cash shop yet.
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.
lol i was being serious earlier. the people you hear most vocal crying out against P2P mmos are merely just mad that their game isn't regarded in the same 'legendary' status as WoW or that its not considered "successful" or "amazing" because it isn't making millions a year like other games.
Sub only is not in decline . The last four MMOs that are gonna be released next are all sub based and even EQN will have sub options. I see no AAA MMOs That are any good ever being produced again as F2P . F2P was a experiment that worked great for a while but it just ain't making the profits it was. Finally players have realised they don't want crap content and pay hundreds to play just to suport all the free loaders.
Subjective nonsense.
There can be 100 sub based MMOs coming out, that does not point to an increase in success as the last slew of so called AAA MMOs over the last 5 years have all done what? Failed at sustaining a playerbase and gone with a half-assed Western styled system based on actual F2P. You, you don't even KNOW what F2P is. What you know is FREEMIUM. Sub-based with a partial game for free which doesn't TOUCH what F2P is in the WORLD we live in.
The rest of that drivel you posted is just that. Cling to the past, the future is just too scary for you. The Genre is leaving you behind and before you realize what is happening most of these western MMO companies are going to pull out because they can no longer compete or keep up...or keep from being bought out by Eastern MMO makers that are buying up companies left and right with their massive profits.
They spent over 1 billion dollars the last 2 years buying out companies...more money than almost any 3 western MMO makers combined would make not including EA(due to NON-MMO profits) and Blizzard.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by FoomerangWhy do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
Three games. FF XIV is sub only to. It went even farther with no cash shop at all.
Wildstar we know will have a Sub plus cash shop with real world money to game currency conversion.
TSO we know will have a Sub but don't know about the cash shop yet.
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.
Maybe that itself speaks to he quality level of those hundreds. Hmm, is there a connection?
Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Foomerang
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.Yeah. Most MMOs are not sub-only anymore.
There is no need for concern. In fact, there is so much free content that my problem is to find time to enjoy them.
something about one man's trash.....
hehe I kid, I kid. Glad you're enjoying that stuff
P2P is as viable as it has always been. The only difference is that p2p only works for actually good games that can keep players interested for a long time. The reason F2P is so popular nowdays is only because the game quality has deteriorated as whole for the past years - and the f2p model is an excellent way to capitalize on limited content for most people.
There's a reason why games like wow, eve and ff11 are still p2p after what, 9-10 years? And that is why games today like wildstar and ff14 are also adopting this method - because they intend to live to their expectations.
However, p2p games are a minority. Good games are also a minority.
Sub only is not in decline . The last four MMOs that are gonna be released next are all sub based and even EQN will have sub options. I see no AAA MMOs That are any good ever being produced again as F2P . F2P was a experiment that worked great for a while but it just ain't making the profits it was. Finally players have realised they don't want crap content and pay hundreds to play just to suport all the free loaders.
Subjective nonsense.
There can be 100 sub based MMOs coming out, that does not point to an increase in success as the last slew of so called AAA MMOs over the last 5 years have all done what? Failed at sustaining a playerbase and gone with a half-assed Western styled system based on actual F2P. You, you don't even KNOW what F2P is. What you know is FREEMIUM. Sub-based with a partial game for free which doesn't TOUCH what F2P is in the WORLD we live in.
The rest of that drivel you posted is just that. Cling to the past, the future is just too scary for you. The Genre is leaving you behind and before you realize what is happening most of these western MMO companies are going to pull out because they can no longer compete or keep up...or keep from being bought out by Eastern MMO makers that are buying up companies left and right with their massive profits.
They spent over 1 billion dollars the last 2 years buying out companies...more money than almost any 3 western MMO makers combined would make not including EA(due to NON-MMO profits) and Blizzard.
How to explain this to you...just because a game is making a profit does not mean it is a good game. I think thats as simple as i can put it so you should be able to understand.
Originally posted by boxsnd It's sad that some devs seem to not be able to learn. No P2P MMO released after 2004 survived, yet they still try.
Aion is P2P(Asia markets) came after 2004 and makes more money than any western MMO currently except WoW. GW2 last quarter was equal to Aion acording to NC, thanks to royalties.
Aion is F2P now.
NA/EU are not Asian markets. Aion makes over $5 million USD a month thanks to P2P in east.
That's because Aion in Asia is like WoW is here in NA/EU. Two different worlds.
lol your post makes no sense, just like your entire stance and the fact that you created a 2nd thread when there's already a long discussion going on that you participated in on the exact same discussion
you just made another thread cause people were crushing you with logic in the other thread so you wanted to try again in a new thread.
This made me laugh that someone else picked up on this. As i was one of those people XD
How to explain this to you...just because a game is making a profit does not mean it is a good game. I think thats as simple as i can put it so you should be able to understand.
How to explain this to you...just because a game that is coming out is going to have a subscription does not mean its going to be a good game nor make it a game that will become good. I think that's as simple as I can put it so you should be able to understand.
Seriously...there is ZERO reason for a game to have a subscription. Its an antiquated idea and one that is only clung to in order to fleece consumers.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Originally posted by boxsnd It's sad that some devs seem to not be able to learn. No P2P MMO released after 2004 survived, yet they still try.
Aion is P2P(Asia markets) came after 2004 and makes more money than any western MMO currently except WoW. GW2 last quarter was equal to Aion acording to NC, thanks to royalties.
Aion is F2P now.
OP, you make my brain cells hurt. Aion is STILL PAY TO PLAY in ASIA because it is SUCESSFUL as an MMO in Asian countries. In the WEST it FAILED to stay popular, and thus they went FREE TO PLAY to continue the game and make revenue with a CASH SHOP. Also the CASH SHOP (though they promised free to play would not mean < than those ppl who spend money in the shop) turned out to be a PAY TO WIN model. In fact, a dev actually made a post about this because they recently had some sort of package you could buy to have some "elite" stuff for endgame with a monthly charge.
That being said, markets will also choose their models based on the hype of the game. Games that start as P2P and end up F2P is mostly because people LOSE INTEREST in the CONTENT and thus don't want to pay to play anymore. Common sense. It isn't that because straight up do not want to play a game anymore cuz it is P2P and they wanna go the cheap route out of the blue. It is because Content lacks, hype falls, and thus the content is no longer of proportional value to a monthly sub.
Also different companies have different priorities. Companies that make you pay for a game tend to release content faster, and better. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING MORE MONEY. Yeah they may not care about the community, but have you seen a free to play mmo care about their community more so than a p2p? If so, kudos to that company.
While I enjoy any type of game with whatever business model, in the end it is how the company delivers the game and also the community. A company cannot run without a COMMUNITY. Which leads back to my earlier point. If content is good, a community will stay, which will then make the company money. IF a company no longer has their community, then have to figure out a way to obtain a new community (which is why NA Aion went F2P) and then a new way to make whatever money possibly (cash shop).
Not according the latest data. It may not be dying out completely, but certainly not as "viable" as before if money is the yardstick.
I'm not sure the F2P bandwagon has been around long enough to really draw long term conclusions about it's viability. If you measure your games life in 1-3 years I think F2P could be seen as a superior model. If you want to measure your games life in decades like some of the old school MMO's do I am not so sure.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
That being said, markets will also choose their models based on the hype of the game. Games that start as P2P and end up F2P is mostly because people LOSE INTEREST in the CONTENT and thus don't want to pay to play anymore. Common sense. It isn't that because straight up do not want to play a game anymore cuz it is P2P and they wanna go the cheap route out of the blue. It is because Content lacks, hype falls, and thus the content is no longer of proportional value to a monthly sub.
Or may be they just finish the content.
Plus, content don't exist in a vacuum. If there is free, as good, content out there, why would i play the costly one?
The bottomline is that sub-only games cannot convince players they are better than the free alternative enough to justify $15 a months.
I doubt they can do it in the future, particularly when competition forces even the free games to have better content (since people can jump around even easier).
Comments
That's because Aion in Asia is like WoW is here in NA/EU. Two different worlds.
lol your post makes no sense, just like your entire stance and the fact that you created a 2nd thread when there's already a long discussion going on that you participated in on the exact same discussion
you just made another thread cause people were crushing you with logic in the other thread so you wanted to try again in a new thread.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
This made me LOL hard. It was almost like reading an article by Glenn Beck.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Sub only is not in decline . The last four MMOs that are gonna be released next are all sub based and even EQN will have sub options. I see no AAA MMOs That are any good ever being produced again as F2P . F2P was a experiment that worked great for a while but it just ain't making the profits it was. Finally players have realised they don't want crap content and pay hundreds to play just to suport all the free loaders.
Why do people like the OP raise such a big fuss over like two games...
So they can feel better about the time they invested in the games that they enjoy but doesn't get as much attention or money as other games that they hate.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
thats...disturbing lol
Three games. FF XIV is sub only to. It went even farther with no cash shop at all.
Wildstar we know will have a Sub plus cash shop with real world money to game currency conversion.
TSO we know will have a Sub but don't know about the cash shop yet.
Wildstar we know will have a Sub plus cash shop with real world money to game currency conversion.
TSO we know will have a Sub but don't know about the cash shop yet.
ok so 3 out of literally hundreds. If I had a choice of hundreds of mmos that have the payment option I enjoy and only 3 that dont, I can tell you I wouldn't be wasting my time whining about the 3, Id be doing cartwheels thinking about the hundreds of games that fit my preference.
EQN is not sub-only.
And sub-only is in-decline by the lastest data.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/394144/subonly-MMO-further-declines-not-surprising.html
Yeah. Most MMOs are not sub-only anymore.
There is no need for concern. In fact, there is so much free content that my problem is to find time to enjoy them.
lol i was being serious earlier. the people you hear most vocal crying out against P2P mmos are merely just mad that their game isn't regarded in the same 'legendary' status as WoW or that its not considered "successful" or "amazing" because it isn't making millions a year like other games.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
Subjective nonsense.
There can be 100 sub based MMOs coming out, that does not point to an increase in success as the last slew of so called AAA MMOs over the last 5 years have all done what? Failed at sustaining a playerbase and gone with a half-assed Western styled system based on actual F2P. You, you don't even KNOW what F2P is. What you know is FREEMIUM. Sub-based with a partial game for free which doesn't TOUCH what F2P is in the WORLD we live in.
The rest of that drivel you posted is just that. Cling to the past, the future is just too scary for you. The Genre is leaving you behind and before you realize what is happening most of these western MMO companies are going to pull out because they can no longer compete or keep up...or keep from being bought out by Eastern MMO makers that are buying up companies left and right with their massive profits.
They spent over 1 billion dollars the last 2 years buying out companies...more money than almost any 3 western MMO makers combined would make not including EA(due to NON-MMO profits) and Blizzard.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Maybe that itself speaks to he quality level of those hundreds. Hmm, is there a connection?
Nahh, must be my imagination.
Yeah. Most MMOs are not sub-only anymore.
There is no need for concern. In fact, there is so much free content that my problem is to find time to enjoy them.
something about one man's trash.....
hehe I kid, I kid. Glad you're enjoying that stuff
P2P is as viable as it has always been. The only difference is that p2p only works for actually good games that can keep players interested for a long time. The reason F2P is so popular nowdays is only because the game quality has deteriorated as whole for the past years - and the f2p model is an excellent way to capitalize on limited content for most people.
There's a reason why games like wow, eve and ff11 are still p2p after what, 9-10 years? And that is why games today like wildstar and ff14 are also adopting this method - because they intend to live to their expectations.
However, p2p games are a minority. Good games are also a minority.
How to explain this to you...just because a game is making a profit does not mean it is a good game. I think thats as simple as i can put it so you should be able to understand.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
This made me laugh that someone else picked up on this. As i was one of those people XD
Not according the latest data. It may not be dying out completely, but certainly not as "viable" as before if money is the yardstick.
How to explain this to you...just because a game that is coming out is going to have a subscription does not mean its going to be a good game nor make it a game that will become good. I think that's as simple as I can put it so you should be able to understand.
Seriously...there is ZERO reason for a game to have a subscription. Its an antiquated idea and one that is only clung to in order to fleece consumers.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
OP, you make my brain cells hurt. Aion is STILL PAY TO PLAY in ASIA because it is SUCESSFUL as an MMO in Asian countries. In the WEST it FAILED to stay popular, and thus they went FREE TO PLAY to continue the game and make revenue with a CASH SHOP. Also the CASH SHOP (though they promised free to play would not mean < than those ppl who spend money in the shop) turned out to be a PAY TO WIN model. In fact, a dev actually made a post about this because they recently had some sort of package you could buy to have some "elite" stuff for endgame with a monthly charge.
That being said, markets will also choose their models based on the hype of the game. Games that start as P2P and end up F2P is mostly because people LOSE INTEREST in the CONTENT and thus don't want to pay to play anymore. Common sense. It isn't that because straight up do not want to play a game anymore cuz it is P2P and they wanna go the cheap route out of the blue. It is because Content lacks, hype falls, and thus the content is no longer of proportional value to a monthly sub.
Also different companies have different priorities. Companies that make you pay for a game tend to release content faster, and better. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE MAKING MORE MONEY. Yeah they may not care about the community, but have you seen a free to play mmo care about their community more so than a p2p? If so, kudos to that company.
While I enjoy any type of game with whatever business model, in the end it is how the company delivers the game and also the community. A company cannot run without a COMMUNITY. Which leads back to my earlier point. If content is good, a community will stay, which will then make the company money. IF a company no longer has their community, then have to figure out a way to obtain a new community (which is why NA Aion went F2P) and then a new way to make whatever money possibly (cash shop).
I'm not sure the F2P bandwagon has been around long enough to really draw long term conclusions about it's viability. If you measure your games life in 1-3 years I think F2P could be seen as a superior model. If you want to measure your games life in decades like some of the old school MMO's do I am not so sure.
Quoting out of context with no real counter argument makes this (as well as a grand majority of your other posts) meaningless and at best a poor attempt of trolling.
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
and in September we will see a spike in P2P subscriptions. Should I make a thread about F2P in decline then? No.
Or may be they just finish the content.
Plus, content don't exist in a vacuum. If there is free, as good, content out there, why would i play the costly one?
The bottomline is that sub-only games cannot convince players they are better than the free alternative enough to justify $15 a months.
I doubt they can do it in the future, particularly when competition forces even the free games to have better content (since people can jump around even easier).