One thing I noticed in this video was the two-hand wielding then quick change of left handed weapon to cast a spell or maybe it was throwing some dust like stuff at them. That seems a little too fast of motion for them to do, or at the least not be able to without dropping or sheathing the weapon.
They can pull it off if their game has enough content to pass as a top notch mmo with social activities, mini games, custmization, pvp, open world, pve and advanced npc that are not static, and of course end game such pvp tournaments, and raids among other possibilities like housing etc.
Without that, they will strugle worse than swtor did. And swtor was a sw ip, bw dev, and kotor fan base. Swtor is only doing well with their cartel market raking in extra dough.
I hope eso does well enough to not have gamble packs and a cash shop that makes their customer pay over a $ 1000. Even though its nice that some people are carrying the game, the fact that the game is resorting to that means the game is not great. We want great games and games that can do well with subs are proof of that.
I just hope they are not p2p as more of a marketing ploy. Since its common business practise to charge extra to attract fans wanting quality looking for something new. So their goal is to have a p2p model at first to attract big pockets, then go to a cash shop if they have to...and that would be bad since it can mean the dev team is smaller as well due to less success of p2p, and bills raking up.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
hoorah! subscription mmo's are back in force! ff14, wildstar and now ESO.
hopefully all those horrible kid gamers will go back to COD now
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!
Good move, at least you know where you stand with subs. And you have 30 days to play for free so you should have plenty of time to decide if the game is for you or not.
I am so fed up with being ripped off with so-called f2p - if you add up the amount you spend on those for things that make the game worth playing and take the hassle out of eg. never having enough space in your inventory, then subs work out cheaper in the long run.
Great decision. Really looking forward to trying out the game...
Enjoy your P2P games guys. Won't be paying a sub for a game that they said themselves is not a MMO.
They also said that statement was made so as not to scare off players who werent' mmo players. The experience they want to create, per their own interview, is an Elder Scrolls game that is online and you can play with friends or make new friends.
In other words, They are trying to make it more of "an elder scrolls game" than an mmo. Which, is a change from what they initially claimed the game to be. It's still an mmo.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
F2P was not a sustainable model. It was new and people were more willing to drop $ in a cash shop, but you can't keep fleecing people. Eventually they learn and they stop spending in the shops. I wouldn't be surprised if consumer data is trending downwards in cash shop spending which is what is causing this resurgence in p2p.
You have people who buy those "I'm an insane fanboy" supporter packs for $1000 or more - unless that person is actually wealthy, not many people can keep up with that type of spending. I wonder how many Diamond Supporters from Path of Exile have quit and quietly cursed themselves for dropping so much cash on a game that they're tired of.
And those "whales" as they like to call them, probably only overspend on 1 or 2 games before realizing that it's dumb to spend so much in cash shops. Money is not made at the rate at which new F2P games are released.
I hope these upcoming p2p games do well and that this payment model sticks. F2P can stick around, but it shouldn't be the standard.
Originally posted by NL-Rikkert And they just lost a large chunck of potential customers.. why would you pay monthly for a game when you have hundreds of alternatives. Was curious if they could bring the SP experience combined with friends and the best of MMOs, but I have lost all my interest now. Not everyone has money to spent these days. Sub will just not work for me atm.
The only thing they lost were temporary customers (although potential) whom of which will clogg up the game for the first 2-6 months and then never be seen again.
Thing is, if the only reason those customers and you have to not purchase the game is that it isn't B2P or F2P, you would probably not even stick around until the first initial month of TES:O was over. (Which is included in the purchase of the game)
You are assuming that you will continue to play the game for several months even if there is a subcription, and that you cannot afford that hence you refuse to try it unless it is B2P/F2P.
B2P customers are customers. In your post you seem to not consider customers if they don't play (and pay) for months ? WTF ?
As a B2P game, people can always come back and play it... Oh wait, you don't care, because they're not paying anymore ?
I hope I misunderstood you.
You did. B2P is not enough to keep an MMO running for years. There is staff to be paid and servers to be maintained. They rely (much like F2P-based games) on people purchasing from their cash shop. (Unlike a singleplayer game which only requires the odd patch or two.)
Only advantage of B2P over F2P is that it won't be going out of its way to force people to purchase premium items since in most B2P games those are merely cosmetic or of minor use.
But, there are a lot of people (such as myself) whom loves vanity items. But I prefer it when vanity items require a lot of work since it grants you actual braging rights, instead of just wearing a shiny piece of armour that anyone with five dollars to spare can get instantly.
Long story short: B2P MMOs relies on future purchases since they are not singleplayer games.
Even though GW2 isn't F2P the 25 million they made off the gemstone last quarter disagrees with you. Y'all have fun paying a sub, after playing games like GW2, Rift, and LoL a sub isn't worth it anymore
hoorah! subscription mmo's are back in force! ff14, wildstar and now ESO.
hopefully all those horrible kid gamers will go back to COD now
I doubt if any of them will still be pure subscription games a year after launch. Any company launching a new mmo must already know there is no long term future in the sub model. Presumably, they are gambling on getting some quick cash in from the people who are happy to buy the game and pay a sub for a few months and then quickly convert to B2P or F2P when those people disappear, as they always do.
You can bet your life the games have been designed from the start with a Plan B ready to implement at short notice. Those people forecasting a switch in payment medel after the first year are way off in my opinion. That may be what happened to many games in the past but they were designed as pure P2P games when it was still the predominant model and they hadn't foreseen the need to switch to a different payment model after launch. It took the devs of those games quite a while to work out the conversion process. That sort of planning should already have been made before the new generation of games appear.
Maybe we need to invent a new term for this type of game........... S2F ....................(Sub2Free) or something?
Sound like they are still going to charge us $60 for the first month, which means I wont be playing. But beyond that I have no problem with paying a subscription when the game is fun to play for a couple months.
Yes!! Couldn't be happier. This makes me even more excited for the game. I'm not worried about wild star at all as I tried the beta and thought it was horrible.
Originally posted by Vivasvan Superb!!! Is there any raiding?? Goodbye f2p subpar ripoff content games.
No raiding, no battlegrounds, arena or world PVP. Only AvA 3 faction PVP and dungeons. Almost like GW2 (which at least has battlegrounds PVP).
I haven't been ripped off by F2P games thus far, but paying 15$ a month for WoW, since vanilla to WotLK, while having recycled character models and recycled raids, got old pretty fast. Also, SWTOR did not justify sub, hence the F2P conversion.
You do realize that P2P business model does not mean quality game?
hoorah! subscription mmo's are back in force! ff14, wildstar and now ESO.
hopefully all those horrible kid gamers will go back to COD now
I doubt if any of them will still be pure subscription games a year after launch. Any company launching a new mmo must already know there is no long term future in the sub model. Presumably, they are gambling on getting some quick cash in from the people who are happy to buy the game and pay a sub for a few months and then quickly convert to B2P or F2P when those people disappear, as they always do.
You can bet your life the games have been designed from the start with a Plan B ready to implement at short notice. Those people forecasting a switch in payment medel after the first year are way off in my opinion. That may be what happened to many games in the past but they were designed as pure P2P games when it was still the predominant model and they hadn't foreseen the need to switch to a different payment model after launch. It took the devs of those games quite a while to work out the conversion process. That sort of planning should already have been made before the new generation of games appear.
Maybe we need to invent a new term for this type of game........... S2F ....................(Sub2Free) or something?
You assume that everyone is chasing the same numbers or hold the same expectations. Both Wildstar and ESO are being developed by newcomers who, if they are smart, will be perfectly content with a small but sustainable game they can build upon. There is plenty of long term future for sub based MMOs as long as one doesn't expect them to be something they are not, which is the biggest problem that most recent examples have had. They will never (outside of the occasional anomaly) be able to sustain the kinds of numbers that most people are throwing around nowadays as normal, but than ftp or btp can't either for the most part, so I'm forced to conclude that the paying model isn't the problem, it's the fact that people still haven't figured out that WoW is an anomaly that will never be repeated by anyone, not even Blizzard. If you want sustainable and realistic numbers, you need to look at EVE or EQ at it's height, not WoW. If you're looking for quick profit, this niche isn't the one for you because buying servers and creating content is not cheap, and neither is sustaining both. Even B2P runs into serious issues because of this; there is simply no way to get around the need for ongoing costs and the subsequent need to have a reliable way to pay for them.
Personally I had it with subs years ago, everything was a sub. So I really appreciated the f2p model as it made games better for me in that I didn’t pay so the content was harder, more grind, more old school, and loved that and especially loved watching all the whiners crying that its p2w. No it’s not you’re simply too spoiled and want everything to be easy so the model preyed on your laziness, and worked!
BUT…
Here comes along Final Fantasy 14 and had zero interest in it until I came aware it had a sub, long story short I’ve preordered and am very much looking forward to playing a sub game again. ESO I’ll admit thought would be F2P and was mildly interested (coming from a huge ES fan) now that it’s sub, all of a sudden I’m taking it much more seriously, and admit am much more interested in the title now.
So this is all great and I can’t believe I’m looking forward to sub based games again.
BUT…
If everything goes back to subs then we’re, we, I, whatever are going to end up right back in the same boat, too many subs to play games. This is essentially what burned out subs; it’s not entirely the 15 a month per se, it was to play this game and that game and that game… is now costing xx amount of dollars monthly which becomes BS and they are not built like they used to be, it’s all about tearing at light speed to cap. It’s the destination, not the journey anymore. I guess what I’m trying to get at is they are not like the old EQ, SWG where one game was all you needed. Today’s mmo’s you still like to play them, but almost need a variety of them to try and encapsulate, or even remotely capture the essence of even one old school mmo entertainment wise.
So if everything is sub again, we’ll all be screaming F2P once again. lol
My faith is my shield! - Turalyon 2022
Your legend ends here and now! - (Battles Won Long Ago)
i don't have a problem with subscription models aside from the entry and re-entry!
Lower/remove the threshold of joining the game for the first time (trial with many features turned off?).
Lower/remove the threshold of trying out the game again once you've left for a time. You want to see what's up since you left? Suuure, come on in. You can sub when you're ready to come back in earnest.
Why not a real subscription model then? One that actually covers the cost of content consumed by players. Charge 50 cents an hour played. This way, the 30 hours I play a month will cost me $15. If you play 20 hours per week, 80 hours in a month, you pay $40.
Originally posted by Razeekster I am so happy to hear this. I am getting so sick and tired of nickel and dime cash shops. Guess what this means? NO HAVING TO PAY FOR EXTRA BAG SPACE OR FOR EXTRA HOTBARS (looking at you SWTOR)!
There will probably be a cash shop too.
Yet the game won't be designed to be tedious in order to boost cash shop sales. That is the real clincher for my undying hatred of the F2P business model.
Originally posted by Vivasvan Superb!!! Is there any raiding?? Goodbye f2p subpar ripoff content games.
No raiding, no battlegrounds, arena or world PVP. Only AvA 3 faction PVP and dungeons. Almost like GW2 (which at least has battlegrounds PVP).
I haven't been ripped off by F2P games thus far, but paying 15$ a month for WoW, since vanilla to WotLK, while having recycled character models and recycled raids, got old pretty fast. Also, SWTOR did not justify sub, hence the F2P conversion.
You do realize that P2P business model does not mean quality game?
There will be raiding. They are just calling it "Adventure Zones". World PvP exists. Cyrodiil is a regular area with questing, dungeons, gathering except PvP is enabled and you can take villages, forts, castles and the Ruby Throne. Hopefully dueling or Arenas will be added later into the game. Arenas didn't actually exists in vanilla WoW either to be honest.
Maybe a bit of research would be useful before spewing out accusations.
i don't have a problem with subscription models aside from the entry and re-entry!
Lower/remove the threshold of joining the game for the first time (trial with many features turned off?).
Lower/remove the threshold of trying out the game again once you've left for a time. You want to see what's up since you left? Suuure, come on in. You can sub when you're ready to come back in earnest.
It was a rare sub based MMO in the past that didn't have free weekend trials for returning consumers, in fact, SOE is famous for it with EQ and most if not all of their other games. Initial costs, such as the box price is important to the success of the game and therefore important to its ongoing health and expansion.
Comments
Without that, they will strugle worse than swtor did. And swtor was a sw ip, bw dev, and kotor fan base. Swtor is only doing well with their cartel market raking in extra dough.
I hope eso does well enough to not have gamble packs and a cash shop that makes their customer pay over a $ 1000. Even though its nice that some people are carrying the game, the fact that the game is resorting to that means the game is not great. We want great games and games that can do well with subs are proof of that.
I just hope they are not p2p as more of a marketing ploy. Since its common business practise to charge extra to attract fans wanting quality looking for something new. So their goal is to have a p2p model at first to attract big pockets, then go to a cash shop if they have to...and that would be bad since it can mean the dev team is smaller as well due to less success of p2p, and bills raking up.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
hoorah! subscription mmo's are back in force! ff14, wildstar and now ESO.
hopefully all those horrible kid gamers will go back to COD now
If someone is talking in general chat in a language you dont understand, chances are they're not talking to you. So chill out and stop bitching about it!
Good move, at least you know where you stand with subs. And you have 30 days to play for free so you should have plenty of time to decide if the game is for you or not.
I am so fed up with being ripped off with so-called f2p - if you add up the amount you spend on those for things that make the game worth playing and take the hassle out of eg. never having enough space in your inventory, then subs work out cheaper in the long run.
Great decision. Really looking forward to trying out the game...
They also said that statement was made so as not to scare off players who werent' mmo players. The experience they want to create, per their own interview, is an Elder Scrolls game that is online and you can play with friends or make new friends.
In other words, They are trying to make it more of "an elder scrolls game" than an mmo. Which, is a change from what they initially claimed the game to be. It's still an mmo.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
F2P was not a sustainable model. It was new and people were more willing to drop $ in a cash shop, but you can't keep fleecing people. Eventually they learn and they stop spending in the shops. I wouldn't be surprised if consumer data is trending downwards in cash shop spending which is what is causing this resurgence in p2p.
You have people who buy those "I'm an insane fanboy" supporter packs for $1000 or more - unless that person is actually wealthy, not many people can keep up with that type of spending. I wonder how many Diamond Supporters from Path of Exile have quit and quietly cursed themselves for dropping so much cash on a game that they're tired of.
And those "whales" as they like to call them, probably only overspend on 1 or 2 games before realizing that it's dumb to spend so much in cash shops. Money is not made at the rate at which new F2P games are released.
I hope these upcoming p2p games do well and that this payment model sticks. F2P can stick around, but it shouldn't be the standard.
You did. B2P is not enough to keep an MMO running for years. There is staff to be paid and servers to be maintained. They rely (much like F2P-based games) on people purchasing from their cash shop. (Unlike a singleplayer game which only requires the odd patch or two.)
Only advantage of B2P over F2P is that it won't be going out of its way to force people to purchase premium items since in most B2P games those are merely cosmetic or of minor use.
But, there are a lot of people (such as myself) whom loves vanity items. But I prefer it when vanity items require a lot of work since it grants you actual braging rights, instead of just wearing a shiny piece of armour that anyone with five dollars to spare can get instantly.
Long story short: B2P MMOs relies on future purchases since they are not singleplayer games.
[PvX]Tempest - Check us out
I doubt if any of them will still be pure subscription games a year after launch. Any company launching a new mmo must already know there is no long term future in the sub model. Presumably, they are gambling on getting some quick cash in from the people who are happy to buy the game and pay a sub for a few months and then quickly convert to B2P or F2P when those people disappear, as they always do.
You can bet your life the games have been designed from the start with a Plan B ready to implement at short notice. Those people forecasting a switch in payment medel after the first year are way off in my opinion. That may be what happened to many games in the past but they were designed as pure P2P games when it was still the predominant model and they hadn't foreseen the need to switch to a different payment model after launch. It took the devs of those games quite a while to work out the conversion process. That sort of planning should already have been made before the new generation of games appear.
Maybe we need to invent a new term for this type of game........... S2F ....................(Sub2Free) or something?
Aww, you mad ?
Hey, enjoy your game and ignore me if you don't like my opinion. Don't need to be rude. And my career is fine.
Funny how people only quote that part of my post. I take it as you agree with the rest.
No raiding, no battlegrounds, arena or world PVP. Only AvA 3 faction PVP and dungeons. Almost like GW2 (which at least has battlegrounds PVP).
I haven't been ripped off by F2P games thus far, but paying 15$ a month for WoW, since vanilla to WotLK, while having recycled character models and recycled raids, got old pretty fast. Also, SWTOR did not justify sub, hence the F2P conversion.
You do realize that P2P business model does not mean quality game?
You assume that everyone is chasing the same numbers or hold the same expectations. Both Wildstar and ESO are being developed by newcomers who, if they are smart, will be perfectly content with a small but sustainable game they can build upon. There is plenty of long term future for sub based MMOs as long as one doesn't expect them to be something they are not, which is the biggest problem that most recent examples have had. They will never (outside of the occasional anomaly) be able to sustain the kinds of numbers that most people are throwing around nowadays as normal, but than ftp or btp can't either for the most part, so I'm forced to conclude that the paying model isn't the problem, it's the fact that people still haven't figured out that WoW is an anomaly that will never be repeated by anyone, not even Blizzard. If you want sustainable and realistic numbers, you need to look at EVE or EQ at it's height, not WoW. If you're looking for quick profit, this niche isn't the one for you because buying servers and creating content is not cheap, and neither is sustaining both. Even B2P runs into serious issues because of this; there is simply no way to get around the need for ongoing costs and the subsequent need to have a reliable way to pay for them.
This is hilarious were going back to subs.
Personally I had it with subs years ago, everything was a sub. So I really appreciated the f2p model as it made games better for me in that I didn’t pay so the content was harder, more grind, more old school, and loved that and especially loved watching all the whiners crying that its p2w. No it’s not you’re simply too spoiled and want everything to be easy so the model preyed on your laziness, and worked!
BUT…
Here comes along Final Fantasy 14 and had zero interest in it until I came aware it had a sub, long story short I’ve preordered and am very much looking forward to playing a sub game again. ESO I’ll admit thought would be F2P and was mildly interested (coming from a huge ES fan) now that it’s sub, all of a sudden I’m taking it much more seriously, and admit am much more interested in the title now.
So this is all great and I can’t believe I’m looking forward to sub based games again.
BUT…
If everything goes back to subs then we’re, we, I, whatever are going to end up right back in the same boat, too many subs to play games. This is essentially what burned out subs; it’s not entirely the 15 a month per se, it was to play this game and that game and that game… is now costing xx amount of dollars monthly which becomes BS and they are not built like they used to be, it’s all about tearing at light speed to cap. It’s the destination, not the journey anymore. I guess what I’m trying to get at is they are not like the old EQ, SWG where one game was all you needed. Today’s mmo’s you still like to play them, but almost need a variety of them to try and encapsulate, or even remotely capture the essence of even one old school mmo entertainment wise.
So if everything is sub again, we’ll all be screaming F2P once again. lol
i don't have a problem with subscription models aside from the entry and re-entry!
Lower/remove the threshold of joining the game for the first time (trial with many features turned off?).
Lower/remove the threshold of trying out the game again once you've left for a time. You want to see what's up since you left? Suuure, come on in. You can sub when you're ready to come back in earnest.
Why not a real subscription model then? One that actually covers the cost of content consumed by players. Charge 50 cents an hour played. This way, the 30 hours I play a month will cost me $15. If you play 20 hours per week, 80 hours in a month, you pay $40.
That would be more equitable.
Yet the game won't be designed to be tedious in order to boost cash shop sales. That is the real clincher for my undying hatred of the F2P business model.
There will be raiding. They are just calling it "Adventure Zones". World PvP exists. Cyrodiil is a regular area with questing, dungeons, gathering except PvP is enabled and you can take villages, forts, castles and the Ruby Throne. Hopefully dueling or Arenas will be added later into the game. Arenas didn't actually exists in vanilla WoW either to be honest.
Maybe a bit of research would be useful before spewing out accusations.
It was a rare sub based MMO in the past that didn't have free weekend trials for returning consumers, in fact, SOE is famous for it with EQ and most if not all of their other games. Initial costs, such as the box price is important to the success of the game and therefore important to its ongoing health and expansion.