Monthly subscription? No thanks. Seeya when you go free to play. Maybe if everybody voices out how mad they are for even considering pay to play they'll scrap it and just go free to play at launch.
Originally posted by cadaml Monthly subscription? No thanks. Seeya when you go free to play. Maybe if everybody voices out how mad they are for even considering pay to play they'll scrap it and just go free to play at launch.
Never going to happen, may as well find a PvE game to your liking.
This sort of whining on the forums does very little to change a MMO, especially this close to release.
Originally posted by cadaml Monthly subscription? No thanks. Seeya when you go BUY to play. Maybe if everybody voices out how mad they are for even considering pay to play they'll scrap it and just go BUY to play at launch.
Fixed it for ya!
Thank you . Hopefully they'll change their minds before the game launches!
People..nothing is free, wake up, especially F2P games.
If you intend to play an MMO for any length of time you'll likely spend MORE money on a F2P model than P2P.
Some points about F2P model:
1. You want more bag space? $10 please. You want a mount that travels at 80% speed instead of the normal 50% speed, that will be $15 more please. Died at boss and want to do a mass rez? $3 please.
2. Going with a P2P model from the start forces the developer to put out a quality game. This was not necessarily the case before but with all that has happened in the past few years it's the case now.
3. Significant resources have to be spent on 'monetizing' the game when it's F2P. Dev resources have to sit around and figure out how to charge the player for everything without pissing off their user base. This takes time and resources no matter which way you slice it. This means LESS resources dedicated to making the game play better. F2P never enhances the actual game play.
4. Sure some might say you can grind gold in game to buy all the F2P bonuses so you pay nothing but then you're spending significant time above what you would have spent basically working for REALLY CHEAP!. For example, let's say you have to grind 5 hours a week to pay for repairs to keep your game 'free' instead of using the in game cash shop and paying $10. Well congrats, you just saved yourself $10 buy working for $2/hr.
5. Finally, for some people the temptation to spend rediculous amounts of money in a F2P game is very tempting. At least with a flat model you know everyone is on the same playing field and you KNOW your cost will never exceed $15/month.
6. If you can't afford $15/month you probably should be focusing on something other than gaming, just saying!
Originally posted by cadaml Monthly subscription? No thanks. Seeya when you go free to play. Maybe if everybody voices out how mad they are for even considering pay to play they'll scrap it and just go free to play at launch.
Never going to happen, may as well find a PvE game to your liking.
This sort of whining on the forums does very little to change a MMO, especially this close to release.
But I guess everyone needs a dream....
Actually "whining" changes quite a bit on the internet. I'd give you examples but surely you can think of some on your own. I'm also more interested in playing this game on the console. I've tried all the mmorpg's pc has to offer it's time to just relax in the recliner with a controller
I don't even see how you can miss all the positive comments, everyones talking about how great the P2P model is coming back. XD
What will they say if everyone starts leaving in droves as has happened over and over and over and...? Have we learned nothing from history?
This is my question as well. Even ActiBlizz doesn't think WoW can be reproduced. Even a successful game like EVE has had a slow climb and there is a recognizable portion of dupe accounts so the actual player base is a little smaller. I don't think any of these AAA mmos can afford to start that small and grow slowly, and they can't seem to retain their initial numbers.
The success of EVE, and to a very very lesser extent DAoC is because they're niche games. No one else does what they do and offers what they do. We should watch closely what happens when CU launches.
If TESO and Wildstar can't do that then how exactly are they going to succeed?
This is all very true,I think the niche part is the most telling really, as these games are not going for a niche, they're aiming to be "hits", which is going to be made all the harder by the amount of competition out there that's cheaper, as well as the wall they're placing between themselves and potential customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by Torvaldr Originally posted by Distopia Originally posted by Adalwulff
I don't even see how you can miss all the positive comments, everyones talking about how great the P2P model is coming back. XD
What will they say if everyone starts leaving in droves as has happened over and over and over and...? Have we learned nothing from history?
This is my question as well. Even ActiBlizz doesn't think WoW can be reproduced. Even a successful game like EVE has had a slow climb and there is a recognizable portion of dupe accounts so the actual player base is a little smaller. I don't think any of these AAA mmos can afford to start that small and grow slowly, and they can't seem to retain their initial numbers.
The success of EVE, and to a very very lesser extent DAoC is because they're niche games. No one else does what they do and offers what they do. We should watch closely what happens when CU launches.
If TESO and Wildstar can't do that then how exactly are they going to succeed?
This is all very true,I think the niche part is the most telling really, as these games are not going for a niche, they're aiming to be "hits", which is going to be made all the harder by the amount of competition out there that's cheaper, as well as the wall they're placing between themselves and potential customers.
WS is a niche game.
ESO isn't. It is going for mass appeal.
Eve is successful for only two reasons. It was dirt cheap to make. It's not hard to make money when you don't have a 100m+ price tag. The second is it is a game that you don't have to play. It plays itself, and your character progresses as long as you keep paying. It is a very interesting p2w niche it has.
I believe that this is a good move for them, if they added a cash shop to an Elder Scrolls game it would have broken immersion by having people running around with kites or something stupid like that.
I don't know why people keep mentioning F2P. The game obviously won't be F2P, ever, nor does any sane person want the game to be free. We are simply saying there is nothing worthy of a sub on this game. That doesn't make it a bad game, just a bad payment model for the game.
People..nothing is free, wake up, especially F2P games.
If you intend to play an MMO for any length of time you'll likely spend MORE money on a F2P model than P2P.
Some points about F2P model:
1. You want more bag space? $10 please. You want a mount that travels at 80% speed instead of the normal 50% speed, that will be $15 more please. Died at boss and want to do a mass rez? $3 please.
2. Going with a P2P model from the start forces the developer to put out a quality game. This was not necessarily the case before but with all that has happened in the past few years it's the case now.
3. Significant resources have to be spent on 'monetizing' the game when it's F2P. Dev resources have to sit around and figure out how to charge the player for everything without pissing off their user base. This takes time and resources no matter which way you slice it. This means LESS resources dedicated to making the game play better. F2P never enhances the actual game play.
4. Sure some might say you can grind gold in game to buy all the F2P bonuses so you pay nothing but then you're spending significant time above what you would have spent basically working for REALLY CHEAP!. For example, let's say you have to grind 5 hours a week to pay for repairs to keep your game 'free' instead of using the in game cash shop and paying $10. Well congrats, you just saved yourself $10 buy working for $2/hr.
5. Finally, for some people the temptation to spend rediculous amounts of money in a F2P game is very tempting. At least with a flat model you know everyone is on the same playing field and you KNOW your cost will never exceed $15/month.
6. If you can't afford $15/month you probably should be focusing on something other than gaming, just saying!
And who was talking about F2P AGAIN???
All I ever wanted was B2P...
You say that as if B2P wasn't just F2P + an entry fee. Do you even play GW2?
Maybe you can explain to us the day to day gameplay of a B2P game and a F2P game and tell us how they are different... I'll wait.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You say that as if B2P wasn't just F2P + an entry fee. Do you even play GW2?
Maybe you can explain to us the day to day gameplay of a B2P game and a F2P game and tell us how they are different... I'll wait.
I do agree here as within 2-3 months from purchase that box price is meaningless, day to day or month to month play is the same as any F2P out there, most if not all future proceeds will be garnered through a cash shop, those sales will be needed and pushed.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You say that as if B2P wasn't just F2P + an entry fee. Do you even play GW2?
Maybe you can explain to us the day to day gameplay of a B2P game and a F2P game and tell us how they are different... I'll wait.
I do agree here as within 2-3 months from purchase that box price is meaningless, day to day or month to month play is the same as any F2P out there, most if not all future proceeds will be garnered through a cash shop, those sales will be needed and pushed.
Hence my dislike of F2P. For me it has nothing to do with a "better class of people" nor "more committment" nor any of that other nonsense. It's simply a matter that I dislike being subtly and not so subtly steered toward spending money. GW2, Rift.. I play them both and they both have those annoying uber chest drops that can only be opened with a key that is either an ultra rare drop or a cash shop item...at least in Rift the key drop rate is pretty good.
It's the constant "Attention Shoppers - we have a special on the Donkey of Doom today - just look for the flashing blue light" crap that annoys me...just that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
You say that as if B2P wasn't just F2P + an entry fee. Do you even play GW2?
Maybe you can explain to us the day to day gameplay of a B2P game and a F2P game and tell us how they are different... I'll wait.
I do agree here as within 2-3 months from purchase that box price is meaningless, day to day or month to month play is the same as any F2P out there, most if not all future proceeds will be garnered through a cash shop, those sales will be needed and pushed.
Hence my dislike of F2P. For me it has nothing to do with a "better class of people" nor "more committment" nor any of that other nonsense. It's simply a matter that I dislike being subtly and not so subtly steered toward spending money. GW2, Rift.. I play them both and they both have those annoying uber chest drops that can only be opened with a key that is either an ultra rare drop or a cash shop item...at least in Rift the key drop rate is pretty good.
It's the constant "Attention Shoppers - we have a special on the Donkey of Doom today - just look for the flashing blue light" crap that annoys me...just that.
My thought's on it exactly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Actually yes, that is a major deal breaker, I couldn't afford it even if I wanted to at this time. I would have happily purchased the game as a B2P game, but paying a monthly fee of $15 is crazy. I really don't even understand how they can expect their console players to pay a monthly fee for console and a game on top of that. They are going to be losing a lot of customers with this model I think.
To those who can afford it, awesome! Hope you all enjoy the game. I will not waste my money, because i know they will end up switching models eventually anyway.
^This.
I wholeheartedly agree. Look at all the games that were p2p that have gone f2p or are just gone. Only 2 have remained p2p, and if recent history tells me anything, it tells me that ESO, Wildstar, and FFXIV will drop their subscription fees and either go f2p or b2p within months of release.
Unfortunately, I cannot respond to the comments about WS and ESO. I simply don't know enough to speculate their future. I can tell you that you are wrong about FF. It's not a western game. It's primary market is Japan where that title is huge and P2P games are much stronger. The Japanese side of it can totally carry the NA/EU side. Much like 11 (Still P2P many years later)
Actually yes, that is a major deal breaker, I couldn't afford it even if I wanted to at this time. I would have happily purchased the game as a B2P game, but paying a monthly fee of $15 is crazy. I really don't even understand how they can expect their console players to pay a monthly fee for console and a game on top of that. They are going to be losing a lot of customers with this model I think.
To those who can afford it, awesome! Hope you all enjoy the game. I will not waste my money, because i know they will end up switching models eventually anyway.
Not to be insulting, but it is only $.50 cents a day. I guess I can understand if you're unemployed and need every dime to feed yourself and kids.. but really a sub fee should be affordable by most standards for a hobby.
Good news -- I love it. I'd rather pay $15 a month than get constant bombardments of messages about player x getting super cool item y from RNG real-money boxes to remind everyone that they should be spending money.
Any time I play a F2P game I feel like a product or experiment instead of a player. I also can never get past the feeling that the game was designed to get me to spend money rather than designed to entertain me.
Any time I play a F2P game I feel like a product or experiment instead of a player. I also can never get past the feeling that the game was designed to get me to spend money rather than designed to entertain me.
That exactly is the reason EVERYONE should be happy about this payment method!
FTP games are simply designed to take your money. They have to do that in order to get money. And even tho they are getting better at hiding the obvious, the game simply needs "missing" stuff to get player to pay. This is bad for everyone, even for those of you claiming to never spend a dime.
If ESO goes ftp down the road, so be it, but be happy that is is designed to deliver EVERYTHING and is designed to KEEP player happy to KEEP them paying a sub.
No matter how you look at it, the payment model of PTP opens up a better gameplay to everyone and they can never ruin the gameplay with a FTP conversion as bas as they could if it started as a FTP. After all people will remember how the game played with subs and will not tolerate drastic shit after ftp.
So just be glad about this, really. (Did i mention getting a Job negates the 15 dollar/month into a meaningless topic? try it.)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
The tried and true business model for AAA Theme Park MMO's: Buy the game and subscribe. The game's quality, depth and regularly added content determine subscriber retention. No matter how good a theme park is, players grow tired of it and the subscriber numbers will fall. When the subscriber numbers fall low enough, *Presto* Freemium has arrived!
I can't fault developers for front loading their profit via P2P. I can also understand it is nice to enjoy a P2P game where there is no intrusive cash shop. I refuse to play F2P games because cash shop items are often required (i.e. inventory, alts, travel, xp gain, UI function, etc.) to make the game play the way it should if it was P2P. Sadly, even in freemium games, the cash shops also target subscribers for the profitable double dipping.
The F2P crowd will just have to wait a while, and then contend with the freemium version of F2P which is designed to push them into subscribing. Some are better than others - - some are quite punitive, like SWTOR. I can't say how the console crowd will go, but I am under the impression they are not into subscription fees.
Comments
Great news !
I'm looking forward to playing ESO with mature fellow players who are willing to invest long term in a game and in its community.
Never going to happen, may as well find a PvE game to your liking.
This sort of whining on the forums does very little to change a MMO, especially this close to release.
But I guess everyone needs a dream....
Thank you
. Hopefully they'll change their minds before the game launches!
People..nothing is free, wake up, especially F2P games.
If you intend to play an MMO for any length of time you'll likely spend MORE money on a F2P model than P2P.
Some points about F2P model:
1. You want more bag space? $10 please. You want a mount that travels at 80% speed instead of the normal 50% speed, that will be $15 more please. Died at boss and want to do a mass rez? $3 please.
2. Going with a P2P model from the start forces the developer to put out a quality game. This was not necessarily the case before but with all that has happened in the past few years it's the case now.
3. Significant resources have to be spent on 'monetizing' the game when it's F2P. Dev resources have to sit around and figure out how to charge the player for everything without pissing off their user base. This takes time and resources no matter which way you slice it. This means LESS resources dedicated to making the game play better. F2P never enhances the actual game play.
4. Sure some might say you can grind gold in game to buy all the F2P bonuses so you pay nothing but then you're spending significant time above what you would have spent basically working for REALLY CHEAP!. For example, let's say you have to grind 5 hours a week to pay for repairs to keep your game 'free' instead of using the in game cash shop and paying $10. Well congrats, you just saved yourself $10 buy working for $2/hr.
5. Finally, for some people the temptation to spend rediculous amounts of money in a F2P game is very tempting. At least with a flat model you know everyone is on the same playing field and you KNOW your cost will never exceed $15/month.
6. If you can't afford $15/month you probably should be focusing on something other than gaming, just saying!
Actually "whining" changes quite a bit on the internet. I'd give you examples but surely you can think of some on your own. I'm also more interested in playing this game on the console. I've tried all the mmorpg's pc has to offer it's time to just relax in the recliner with a controller
This is all very true,I think the niche part is the most telling really, as these games are not going for a niche, they're aiming to be "hits", which is going to be made all the harder by the amount of competition out there that's cheaper, as well as the wall they're placing between themselves and potential customers.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Same here.. might even set up a 5 to 10 man multibox for this game.
What will they say if everyone starts leaving in droves as has happened over and over and over and...? Have we learned nothing from history?
This is my question as well. Even ActiBlizz doesn't think WoW can be reproduced. Even a successful game like EVE has had a slow climb and there is a recognizable portion of dupe accounts so the actual player base is a little smaller. I don't think any of these AAA mmos can afford to start that small and grow slowly, and they can't seem to retain their initial numbers.
The success of EVE, and to a very very lesser extent DAoC is because they're niche games. No one else does what they do and offers what they do. We should watch closely what happens when CU launches.
If TESO and Wildstar can't do that then how exactly are they going to succeed?
This is all very true,I think the niche part is the most telling really, as these games are not going for a niche, they're aiming to be "hits", which is going to be made all the harder by the amount of competition out there that's cheaper, as well as the wall they're placing between themselves and potential customers.
WS is a niche game.
ESO isn't. It is going for mass appeal.
Eve is successful for only two reasons. It was dirt cheap to make. It's not hard to make money when you don't have a 100m+ price tag. The second is it is a game that you don't have to play. It plays itself, and your character progresses as long as you keep paying. It is a very interesting p2w niche it has.Only when I have no interest in the points being made.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
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You say that as if B2P wasn't just F2P + an entry fee. Do you even play GW2?
Maybe you can explain to us the day to day gameplay of a B2P game and a F2P game and tell us how they are different... I'll wait.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I do agree here as within 2-3 months from purchase that box price is meaningless, day to day or month to month play is the same as any F2P out there, most if not all future proceeds will be garnered through a cash shop, those sales will be needed and pushed.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Hence my dislike of F2P. For me it has nothing to do with a "better class of people" nor "more committment" nor any of that other nonsense. It's simply a matter that I dislike being subtly and not so subtly steered toward spending money. GW2, Rift.. I play them both and they both have those annoying uber chest drops that can only be opened with a key that is either an ultra rare drop or a cash shop item...at least in Rift the key drop rate is pretty good.
It's the constant "Attention Shoppers - we have a special on the Donkey of Doom today - just look for the flashing blue light" crap that annoys me...just that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
My thought's on it exactly.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Unfortunately, I cannot respond to the comments about WS and ESO. I simply don't know enough to speculate their future. I can tell you that you are wrong about FF. It's not a western game. It's primary market is Japan where that title is huge and P2P games are much stronger. The Japanese side of it can totally carry the NA/EU side. Much like 11 (Still P2P many years later)
honestly im glad it is .Keeps away some of the scum
Not to be insulting, but it is only $.50 cents a day. I guess I can understand if you're unemployed and need every dime to feed yourself and kids.. but really a sub fee should be affordable by most standards for a hobby.
Good news -- I love it. I'd rather pay $15 a month than get constant bombardments of messages about player x getting super cool item y from RNG real-money boxes to remind everyone that they should be spending money.
Any time I play a F2P game I feel like a product or experiment instead of a player. I also can never get past the feeling that the game was designed to get me to spend money rather than designed to entertain me.
That exactly is the reason EVERYONE should be happy about this payment method!
FTP games are simply designed to take your money. They have to do that in order to get money. And even tho they are getting better at hiding the obvious, the game simply needs "missing" stuff to get player to pay. This is bad for everyone, even for those of you claiming to never spend a dime.
If ESO goes ftp down the road, so be it, but be happy that is is designed to deliver EVERYTHING and is designed to KEEP player happy to KEEP them paying a sub.
No matter how you look at it, the payment model of PTP opens up a better gameplay to everyone and they can never ruin the gameplay with a FTP conversion as bas as they could if it started as a FTP. After all people will remember how the game played with subs and will not tolerate drastic shit after ftp.
So just be glad about this, really. (Did i mention getting a Job negates the 15 dollar/month into a meaningless topic? try it.)
MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.
Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?
This is fantastic news. Good call on going old school. I'll gladly pay $0.50/day for my favorite hobby.
Glad to see someone is bucking the trend on the hipster F2P movement.
The tried and true business model for AAA Theme Park MMO's: Buy the game and subscribe. The game's quality, depth and regularly added content determine subscriber retention. No matter how good a theme park is, players grow tired of it and the subscriber numbers will fall. When the subscriber numbers fall low enough, *Presto* Freemium has arrived!
I can't fault developers for front loading their profit via P2P. I can also understand it is nice to enjoy a P2P game where there is no intrusive cash shop. I refuse to play F2P games because cash shop items are often required (i.e. inventory, alts, travel, xp gain, UI function, etc.) to make the game play the way it should if it was P2P. Sadly, even in freemium games, the cash shops also target subscribers for the profitable double dipping.
The F2P crowd will just have to wait a while, and then contend with the freemium version of F2P which is designed to push them into subscribing. Some are better than others - - some are quite punitive, like SWTOR. I can't say how the console crowd will go, but I am under the impression they are not into subscription fees.