The age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.
You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.
They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.
It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.
Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
The age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.
You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.
They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.
It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.
Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
The age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.
You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.
They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.
It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.
Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
And that is the reason why Developers make games for the 20 -60 minute crowd. There is more of those than the wait till I have enough time crowd.
And by focusing on the 20-60 minute crowd, they will help populate their worlds, making it a busy and full game world that hopefully will make the gamers feel like they are part of.
The problems are that the Media makes MMORPG a bad rep, there are too many people in this world that takes it to the extreme and when they suffer the consequences of their actions, MMORPG gets the blame. ( Players that dies from playing 20+ hours at a time, Players that loses their job for playing 7 days a week , players that steal to play another session...etc )
Thats is the reason why Game developers cater to the quick instead of the slow.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
The age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.
You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.
They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.
It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.
Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
And that is the reason why Developers make games for the 20 -60 minute crowd. There is more of those than the wait till I have enough time crowd.
And by focusing on the 20-60 minute crowd, they will help populate their worlds, making it a busy and full game world that hopefully will make the gamers feel like they are part of.
The problems are that the Media makes MMORPG a bad rep, there are too many people in this world that takes it to the extreme and when they suffer the consequences of their actions, MMORPG gets the blame. ( Players that dies from playing 20+ hours at a time, Players that loses their job for playing 7 days a week , players that steal to play another session...etc )
Thats is the reason why Game developers cater to the quick instead of the slow.
These arent sports titles or a quick session of mortal combat. These are deep games If you dont have the time to play them (which I have much less than I used to) Then you shouldnt be playing them at all. The genre has changed so much, its like me asking EA to completely revamp their sports titles. No more scores in your games (taking out levels and classes) No more having to play a full season to get that trophy (reduced gameplay time to get to max level) No more All pro mode for difficulty (Reduced difficulty). At this point it is not the same game, same goes for the current mmorpg.
"To much fun, that's news to me, to much fun, there must be, a whole lot of things that I haven't done, I aint never had to much fun" What is the World coming to, we are lamenting for the days when we did not have fun? The best games for me have a hook in them that makes it fun like TOR with its great story and cut scenes, ditto Secret World, Tera with its great combat overcoming its lack luster quests-ditto AOC, Shadowbane with its great PvP and suspense despite not having any quests at all. Vanguard with its Diplomacy and crafting, despite its bugs and lag. Games without fun?-just endless grinding-NO THANKS!
The age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.
You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.
They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.
It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.
Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
Yeah .. that is you. Personally i won't even want 2-3 hours committed sessions. Long sessions on SP games are ok, because i will just pause and break it up into shorter ones.
With a family, and often other stuff to do, i don't want to be locked down even 2 hours for a game.
I can get into a game for even 15 min. Heck, i do short farming runs in D3 all the time. That is fun (for me). Jump in and kill stuff with good combat.
This again...sigh. Amazing that game players, of all people, would feel so embarrassed about having fun playing games that they have to pretend they do it for other, higher reasons.
Mind you,"fun" is a term so gigantic that it looses meaning. It's right up there with "good" or "bad" or "nice" in its meaninglessness.
A much more meaningful discussion would be something like, "I don't have fun executing the required choreography for a raid boss fight after the 23rd time or so. Do you?"
Spot on.
After the 20th time playing that Dragon Soul raid, THAT got old, boring, tiring and just plain stupid (I think Dragon Soul even surpassed the TOC raid for the worst in WoW. Icehowl could be remembered. Remembering a claw and picking the hairs off the spine of Deathwing...let's forget that).
Fun to me is there's something to do but race to A, then to B, then back to A in raids, and spamming more than 1 button (because almost all the other means to heal are gated or inefficient). I literally went to sleep on Deathwing's spine, so bored that I simply quit going. Pointless. Firelands before the big nerf in less than 90 days, was nice. But few wanted to raid it then, "too hard" (only 2% of the raid guilds completed it on normal before the nerf, Blizzard pushed the nerf quickly and rushed DS out before the raiders just quit in frustration).
Fun is not over complicated or too easy. In WoW a good example of that was the WotLK heroic dungeons and ICC. 30 minute dungeon runs; and no shared lock out on 10 and 25 man raids, so can raid 2x a week with people and could even chitchat through them (with all the running around in MoP raids, I wonder IF they can even chat!).
This again...sigh. Amazing that game players, of all people, would feel so embarrassed about having fun playing games that they have to pretend they do it for other, higher reasons.
Mind you,"fun" is a term so gigantic that it looses meaning. It's right up there with "good" or "bad" or "nice" in its meaninglessness.
A much more meaningful discussion would be something like, "I don't have fun executing the required choreography for a raid boss fight after the 23rd time or so. Do you?"
Spot on.
After the 20th time playing that Dragon Soul raid, THAT got old, boring, tiring and just plain stupid (I think Dragon Soul even surpassed the TOC raid for the worst in WoW. Icehowl could be remembered. Remembering a claw and picking the hairs off the spine of Deathwing...let's forget that).
Fun to me is there's something to do but race to A, then to B, then back to A in raids, and spamming more than 1 button (because almost all the other means to heal are gated or inefficient). I literally went to sleep on Deathwing's spine, so bored that I simply quit going. Pointless. Firelands before the big nerf in less than 90 days, was nice. But few wanted to raid it then, "too hard" (only 2% of the raid guilds completed it on normal before the nerf, Blizzard pushed the nerf quickly and rushed DS out before the raiders just quit in frustration).
Fun is not over complicated or too easy. In WoW a good example of that was the WotLK heroic dungeons and ICC. 30 minute dungeon runs; and no shared lock out on 10 and 25 man raids, so can raid 2x a week with people and could even chitchat through them (with all the running around in MoP raids, I wonder IF they can even chat!).
Imagine an Raid Boss that has Learning Curves.
Then imagine the Forum exploded by all the other players that said its not fair that the Raid boss learns from other guilds that beaten it. Because they haven't beaten it yet.
Then imagine the Forum exploded again from all the players that threaten to quit because its too hard.
Then the following threats and anger threads on the forum, Petitions for the developers to go back to the original easy to farm Raids.
Then after a few more months, after everyone beaten it 23 times, the complaints and angers that the Raids are too Easy, that it can be beaten in their sleep.
That is the current gamer mentality, when its too hard complain, when it gets easier, complain. When it gets too easy complain. When its normal, Complain its not too Hardcore enough, or not casual enough.
Guess what, there is no way to please everyone.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Fun to me is there's something to do but race to A, then to B, then back to A in raids, and spamming more than 1 button (because almost all the other means to heal are gated or inefficient). I literally went to sleep on Deathwing's spine, so bored that I simply quit going. Pointless. Firelands before the big nerf in less than 90 days, was nice. But few wanted to raid it then, "too hard" (only 2% of the raid guilds completed it on normal before the nerf, Blizzard pushed the nerf quickly and rushed DS out before the raiders just quit in frustration).
The issue is that different players want different level of challenges, and that you fun depends too much on others.
The solution is simple. Play solo, and a difficulty slider.
I don't raid because raiding in a guild is too much work. I can do it .. and why when it is more a chore than fun. Now i play mostly solo to see the content.
I think its a fallacy to claim a marketing direction to imitate a success means that's what most players want. There is no method to back it up because F2P doesn't require casual or hardcore players. Its marketing targets whale players to subsidize the game. If anything the failure to hold subs by casual WoW clones supports that not even casual gamers want to pay to play. While old style games held subs into modern times.
I play F2P games until I get bored. Generally very quickly. I play in rotation to get my MMORPG fix and it cost me nothing. Not because I desire it because I am 30 something now with a job and kid. Its because there aren't many options and again it cost nothing. Most of my friends are the same way.
I play F2P games until I get bored. Generally very quickly. I play in rotation to get my MMORPG fix and it cost me nothing. Not because I desire it because I am 30 something now with a job and kid. Its because there aren't many options and again it cost nothing. Most of my friends are the same way.
well ... i play ANY game until i get bored. And i don't need any MMORPG fix. I just play game for fun.
Now it is true that there aren't many options. If i like Star Trek, STO is it. But i don't see a problem. Just take whatever fun in MMO, consume it and move on. There are other entertainment. I am seldomly bored.
I understood the OP as saying that originally it felt more like MMORPGs were created in an effort to create a world in which fun was to be had. Now MMORPGs are created to be fun. Both are "fun", but one is more subtle and the other can often feel forced and fake. Like a cheesy hack comedian. Not to say that the latter can't be successful in its goals, or not also feel subtle, but it's something we judge in all forms of art/entertainment. If the product does not feel like an authentic love of labor often times people are discouraged from "enjoying" it regardless of its objective merits as a piece of art/entertainment.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
nariusseldon the problem is that a lot of gamers are tired of the same old and there is no way to make a change because bad or good games are subsidized. A game comes out and its horrible. We used to vote with our wallets but now these games will propped up by a cash shop that a minority of players support.
Its like saying Honda Accord is a run away success. ABC car makers make cheap knock offs and that's all we have to buy outside long in the tooth used cars or poorly funded small indie car makers. Not only that due to poor sales they give the cars away subsidized by a few buyers who get crazy options worth more then the car. Does the fact that people are driving these free cars say that's what we really want?
Originally posted by BadSpockThe age of the marathon 12+ hour gaming session is past.You still can, of course, if you have the time, but the difference is that the games are no longer designed with that play style in mind.They are designed for the 20-60 minute window player.It's not a focus on fun or a focus on not-fun - it's a shift towards accessibility and shorter individual play sessions.Bite sized gaming.
Yeah.If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
And that is the reason why Developers make games for the 20 -60 minute crowd. There is more of those than the wait till I have enough time crowd.And by focusing on the 20-60 minute crowd, they will help populate their worlds, making it a busy and full game world that hopefully will make the gamers feel like they are part of. The problems are that the Media makes MMORPG a bad rep, there are too many people in this world that takes it to the extreme and when they suffer the consequences of their actions, MMORPG gets the blame. ( Players that dies from playing 20+ hours at a time, Players that loses their job for playing 7 days a week , players that steal to play another session...etc )Thats is the reason why Game developers cater to the quick instead of the slow.
These arent sports titles or a quick session of mortal combat. These are deep games If you dont have the time to play them (which I have much less than I used to) Then you shouldnt be playing them at all. The genre has changed so much, its like me asking EA to completely revamp their sports titles. No more scores in your games (taking out levels and classes) No more having to play a full season to get that trophy (reduced gameplay time to get to max level) No more All pro mode for difficulty (Reduced difficulty). At this point it is not the same game, same goes for the current mmorpg.
They shouldn't be the same games anymore. If they were, nobody would buy them. They have to change. It's just that they aren't changing in a way that suits everyone. The larger group of people will win out over the smaller group of people. It's kind of like open world FFA PvP. The fight goes in the direction of the group who has the odds in their favor, and in this case it's the people who want game play in smaller chunks.
I bet there are people who are upset that you can save your game, or put it down and come back later. You could never do that with Mario. You either got to the end, or you died. ** Those people existing doesn't mean developers need to make games for them though, because really, there aren't very many of them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Minigames don't make another game fun. They might, it all depends. Also, do they fit the overall design? I'm not against a minigame if it's appropriate and, of course, fun. (Honestly I don't see them fitting most settings, but who knows, I'm willing ot give it a try.)
Why would any rational thinking person, ever, spend any significant time on anything done for entertainment... if it wasn't entertaining them.
They should focus on entertainment. Thats all they shoudl focus on.
Focusing on anything other than entertainment will pull it out of the entertainment category.
Farming is typically considered not entertaining to most people, therefore most companies don't do it. They somehow think that farming the same instance is different.
They are starting to realise it isn't. It's still farming. Farming is typically considered not entertaining to most people, therefore more companies will stop it.
While I am not a drinking man, I do think it might be fun to make your post into a drinking game.. Take a shot every time you read the word "entertainment" or "entertaining".. :P
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
Why would any rational thinking person, ever, spend any significant time on anything done for entertainment... if it wasn't entertaining them.
They should focus on entertainment. Thats all they shoudl focus on.
Focusing on anything other than entertainment will pull it out of the entertainment category.
Farming is typically considered not entertaining to most people, therefore most companies don't do it. They somehow think that farming the same instance is different.
They are starting to realise it isn't. It's still farming. Farming is typically considered not entertaining to most people, therefore more companies will stop it.
While I am not a drinking man, I do think it might be fun to make your post into a drinking game.. Take a shot every time you read the word "entertainment" or "entertaining".. :P
Repetition works in advertising. Thought I'd try it here
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
1: MMOs nowadays focus more on GIVING people activities to do, and less on creating a world where people can choose what they want to do and set goals and aspirations for themselves.
2. Because of this shift, the games have less longevity.
seems like a totally reasonable thing to claim. Anybody who is responding about how games are supposed to be "fun" are missing the point to an embarrassing degree.
I would be bet in 10 years time most of those games are still around with approximately the same population of most other games around the 10 year mark. Their longevity is the same.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Holophonist Seems to me OP is making 2 main points:
1: MMOs nowadays focus more on GIVING people activities to do, and less on creating a world where people can choose what they want to do and set goals and aspirations for themselves.
2. Because of this shift, the games have less longevity.
seems like a totally reasonable thing to claim. Anybody who is responding about how games are supposed to be "fun" are missing the point to an embarrassing degree.
This.
I want the Devs to create a MMORPG that is comprised of a virtual world, a game, and a social community, combined on equal terms, ....and without leashes or collars... like some of the old school MMOs.....
then please get the frack out of my way. I got "trains" to aggro and play with. In a properly designed MMO the Devs don't make the fun.... the Players do.
ADHD version: What is fun for someone may not be fun for someone else. Don't like it? Get over it or find another hobby!
People need to realize that the concept of "fun" is very similar to how we relate to the concept of "beauty". Ever heard "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? You could essentiallyl say, "fun is in th eye of the beholder".
Some people enjoy (i.e. have fun) playing games which may appear to be work for another, and vice versa. I would probably fall under the "work" camp, but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy games that would fall under the "fun" camp.
As a hard working family man with wife, kids, pets, and an endless list of chores and responsabilities, I can no longer enjoy the "work" games; just don't have the time for them. However, thanks to the "fun" games, I am able to have fun; though not exaclty the same kind of entertainment, it is sufficient and I'll take what I can get.
A game like GW2 I think provides a reasonable middle ground for both the "work" and "fun" camps. During the week I can get on and play for 30 to 60 min and get my "mmo fix". On the other hand, during the weekend, I can get on for 5-10 hours and get plenty of gaming time. For those of you who say there's not enough work in GW2, try completing all dungeons, world-map completion, professions, legendaries, storyline, living world pve, spvp and wvw. If theer is a hardcore gamer who has completed all of the above, then we'll have a different conversation ;-p
Having said that, I realize that there are "hard-core" gamers (i.e. no-lifers) who want to play for 24hrs straight and want a level of complexity that is beyond most IQ test scores. For the no-lifers, I'm sorry, but you are severely outnumbered and unfortunately there are not enough of you to finance a satisfiable AAA mmo; with the exception of EVE.
The money is in the casual-gamer market and the future of the mmo genre is for the casuals, not the hardcore. However, that doesn't mean that the games are superficial and inferior... just different. No-lifers want casuals to adapt to the genre; maybe its time for the no-lifers to do the adjusting or go find a different hobby.
Originally posted by Holophonist Seems to me OP is making 2 main points:
1: MMOs nowadays focus more on GIVING people activities to do, and less on creating a world where people can choose what they want to do and set goals and aspirations for themselves.
2. Because of this shift, the games have less longevity.
seems like a totally reasonable thing to claim. Anybody who is responding about how games are supposed to be "fun" are missing the point to an embarrassing degree.
This.
I want the Devs to create a MMORPG that is comprised of a virtual world, a game, and a social community, combined on equal terms, ....and without leashes or collars... like some of the old school MMOs.....
then please get the frack out of my way. I got "trains" to aggro and play with. In a properly designed MMO the Devs don't make the fun.... the Players do.
Comments
Yeah.
If games all require 12 hr gaming sessions, i won't even be a gamer anymore. 20-60min is optimal. You don't have to commit to the whole evening, or have to miss the movie because of playing a game.
This makes perfect sense but me personally if i cant play for at least 2-3 hours I see no reason to play at all. I wait until I can play a good amount of time. Cant get into a game in that short of time. At least for me.
And that is the reason why Developers make games for the 20 -60 minute crowd. There is more of those than the wait till I have enough time crowd.
And by focusing on the 20-60 minute crowd, they will help populate their worlds, making it a busy and full game world that hopefully will make the gamers feel like they are part of.
The problems are that the Media makes MMORPG a bad rep, there are too many people in this world that takes it to the extreme and when they suffer the consequences of their actions, MMORPG gets the blame. ( Players that dies from playing 20+ hours at a time, Players that loses their job for playing 7 days a week , players that steal to play another session...etc )
Thats is the reason why Game developers cater to the quick instead of the slow.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
These arent sports titles or a quick session of mortal combat. These are deep games If you dont have the time to play them (which I have much less than I used to) Then you shouldnt be playing them at all. The genre has changed so much, its like me asking EA to completely revamp their sports titles. No more scores in your games (taking out levels and classes) No more having to play a full season to get that trophy (reduced gameplay time to get to max level) No more All pro mode for difficulty (Reduced difficulty). At this point it is not the same game, same goes for the current mmorpg.
Yeah .. that is you. Personally i won't even want 2-3 hours committed sessions. Long sessions on SP games are ok, because i will just pause and break it up into shorter ones.
With a family, and often other stuff to do, i don't want to be locked down even 2 hours for a game.
I can get into a game for even 15 min. Heck, i do short farming runs in D3 all the time. That is fun (for me). Jump in and kill stuff with good combat.
Spot on.
After the 20th time playing that Dragon Soul raid, THAT got old, boring, tiring and just plain stupid (I think Dragon Soul even surpassed the TOC raid for the worst in WoW. Icehowl could be remembered. Remembering a claw and picking the hairs off the spine of Deathwing...let's forget that).
Fun to me is there's something to do but race to A, then to B, then back to A in raids, and spamming more than 1 button (because almost all the other means to heal are gated or inefficient). I literally went to sleep on Deathwing's spine, so bored that I simply quit going. Pointless. Firelands before the big nerf in less than 90 days, was nice. But few wanted to raid it then, "too hard" (only 2% of the raid guilds completed it on normal before the nerf, Blizzard pushed the nerf quickly and rushed DS out before the raiders just quit in frustration).
Fun is not over complicated or too easy. In WoW a good example of that was the WotLK heroic dungeons and ICC. 30 minute dungeon runs; and no shared lock out on 10 and 25 man raids, so can raid 2x a week with people and could even chitchat through them (with all the running around in MoP raids, I wonder IF they can even chat!).
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
"too much fun" is a next level first world problem.
It was bad when I heard someone say, "My plate is too small for my burrito." But now we have, "These games are too focused on fun!"
Imagine an Raid Boss that has Learning Curves.
Then imagine the Forum exploded by all the other players that said its not fair that the Raid boss learns from other guilds that beaten it. Because they haven't beaten it yet.
Then imagine the Forum exploded again from all the players that threaten to quit because its too hard.
Then the following threats and anger threads on the forum, Petitions for the developers to go back to the original easy to farm Raids.
Then after a few more months, after everyone beaten it 23 times, the complaints and angers that the Raids are too Easy, that it can be beaten in their sleep.
That is the current gamer mentality, when its too hard complain, when it gets easier, complain. When it gets too easy complain. When its normal, Complain its not too Hardcore enough, or not casual enough.
Guess what, there is no way to please everyone.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Gamers aren't reasonable hehe
The issue is that different players want different level of challenges, and that you fun depends too much on others.
The solution is simple. Play solo, and a difficulty slider.
I don't raid because raiding in a guild is too much work. I can do it .. and why when it is more a chore than fun. Now i play mostly solo to see the content.
I play F2P games until I get bored. Generally very quickly. I play in rotation to get my MMORPG fix and it cost me nothing. Not because I desire it because I am 30 something now with a job and kid. Its because there aren't many options and again it cost nothing. Most of my friends are the same way.
well ... i play ANY game until i get bored. And i don't need any MMORPG fix. I just play game for fun.
Now it is true that there aren't many options. If i like Star Trek, STO is it. But i don't see a problem. Just take whatever fun in MMO, consume it and move on. There are other entertainment. I am seldomly bored.
I understood the OP as saying that originally it felt more like MMORPGs were created in an effort to create a world in which fun was to be had. Now MMORPGs are created to be fun. Both are "fun", but one is more subtle and the other can often feel forced and fake. Like a cheesy hack comedian. Not to say that the latter can't be successful in its goals, or not also feel subtle, but it's something we judge in all forms of art/entertainment. If the product does not feel like an authentic love of labor often times people are discouraged from "enjoying" it regardless of its objective merits as a piece of art/entertainment.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
Its like saying Honda Accord is a run away success. ABC car makers make cheap knock offs and that's all we have to buy outside long in the tooth used cars or poorly funded small indie car makers. Not only that due to poor sales they give the cars away subsidized by a few buyers who get crazy options worth more then the car. Does the fact that people are driving these free cars say that's what we really want?
They shouldn't be the same games anymore. If they were, nobody would buy them. They have to change. It's just that they aren't changing in a way that suits everyone. The larger group of people will win out over the smaller group of people. It's kind of like open world FFA PvP. The fight goes in the direction of the group who has the odds in their favor, and in this case it's the people who want game play in smaller chunks.
I bet there are people who are upset that you can save your game, or put it down and come back later. You could never do that with Mario. You either got to the end, or you died. ** Those people existing doesn't mean developers need to make games for them though, because really, there aren't very many of them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
A game that isn't fun isn't a game, it's a task.
Minigames don't make another game fun. They might, it all depends. Also, do they fit the overall design? I'm not against a minigame if it's appropriate and, of course, fun. (Honestly I don't see them fitting most settings, but who knows, I'm willing ot give it a try.)
Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...
While I am not a drinking man, I do think it might be fun to make your post into a drinking game.. Take a shot every time you read the word "entertainment" or "entertaining".. :P
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
Repetition works in advertising. Thought I'd try it here
1: MMOs nowadays focus more on GIVING people activities to do, and less on creating a world where people can choose what they want to do and set goals and aspirations for themselves.
2. Because of this shift, the games have less longevity.
seems like a totally reasonable thing to claim. Anybody who is responding about how games are supposed to be "fun" are missing the point to an embarrassing degree.
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
I would be bet in 10 years time most of those games are still around with approximately the same population of most other games around the 10 year mark. Their longevity is the same.
This.
I want the Devs to create a MMORPG that is comprised of a virtual world, a game, and a social community, combined on equal terms, ....and without leashes or collars... like some of the old school MMOs.....
then please get the frack out of my way. I got "trains" to aggro and play with. In a properly designed MMO the Devs don't make the fun.... the Players do.
ADHD version: What is fun for someone may not be fun for someone else. Don't like it? Get over it or find another hobby!
People need to realize that the concept of "fun" is very similar to how we relate to the concept of "beauty". Ever heard "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"? You could essentiallyl say, "fun is in th eye of the beholder".
Some people enjoy (i.e. have fun) playing games which may appear to be work for another, and vice versa. I would probably fall under the "work" camp, but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy games that would fall under the "fun" camp.
As a hard working family man with wife, kids, pets, and an endless list of chores and responsabilities, I can no longer enjoy the "work" games; just don't have the time for them. However, thanks to the "fun" games, I am able to have fun; though not exaclty the same kind of entertainment, it is sufficient and I'll take what I can get.
A game like GW2 I think provides a reasonable middle ground for both the "work" and "fun" camps. During the week I can get on and play for 30 to 60 min and get my "mmo fix". On the other hand, during the weekend, I can get on for 5-10 hours and get plenty of gaming time. For those of you who say there's not enough work in GW2, try completing all dungeons, world-map completion, professions, legendaries, storyline, living world pve, spvp and wvw. If theer is a hardcore gamer who has completed all of the above, then we'll have a different conversation ;-p
Having said that, I realize that there are "hard-core" gamers (i.e. no-lifers) who want to play for 24hrs straight and want a level of complexity that is beyond most IQ test scores. For the no-lifers, I'm sorry, but you are severely outnumbered and unfortunately there are not enough of you to finance a satisfiable AAA mmo; with the exception of EVE.
The money is in the casual-gamer market and the future of the mmo genre is for the casuals, not the hardcore. However, that doesn't mean that the games are superficial and inferior... just different. No-lifers want casuals to adapt to the genre; maybe its time for the no-lifers to do the adjusting or go find a different hobby.
I agree!