Yes, but people like the OP don't actually miss that feeling. They are upset that other people have the option to play a game that doesn't feature harsh death penalties. It's about playing a game in which you enjoy a mechanic, knowing that others are being frustrated by it so that you can feel superior.
The problem is that the people playing those hardcore modes, is that they all want to be there. No one is suffering, and so that sense of superiority is lost (save for going to that game's forums to call people who play the other modes casuals/carebears) - gotta get that superiority fix somehow!
Maybe, maybe not.
But the solution is obvious: Add a hardcore serverset to the games. Better loot, high difficulty and a hard death penalty.
It isn't actually that hard, up all mobs hitpoints 25%, as well as raise the chance to loot good stuff 50% and throw in a fitting death penalty while keeping the regular servers. Don't like it, play the regular servers.
I think adding a harder serverset is as important as having PvP servers, even more if the game is mainly PvE based.
Then again, some people only want the game to have their favorite gameplay but that is just selfish. I wouldn't mind playing on a harder server myself, even if Im more for higher difficulty than caring about death penalty. But when you raise the risks you also should raise the rewards and therefor the loot tables better drops.
Yes, but people like the OP don't actually miss that feeling. They are upset that other people have the option to play a game that doesn't feature harsh death penalties. It's about playing a game in which you enjoy a mechanic, knowing that others are being frustrated by it so that you can feel superior.
The problem is that the people playing those hardcore modes, is that they all want to be there. No one is suffering, and so that sense of superiority is lost (save for going to that game's forums to call people who play the other modes casuals/carebears) - gotta get that superiority fix somehow!
Maybe, maybe not.
But the solution is obvious: Add a hardcore serverset to the games. Better loot, high difficulty and a hard death penalty.
It isn't actually that hard, up all mobs hitpoints 25%, as well as raise the chance to loot good stuff 50% and throw in a fitting death penalty while keeping the regular servers. Don't like it, play the regular servers.
I think adding a harder serverset is as important as having PvP servers, even more if the game is mainly PvE based.
Then again, some people only want the game to have their favorite gameplay but that is just selfish. I wouldn't mind playing on a harder server myself, even if Im more for higher difficulty than caring about death penalty. But when you raise the risks you also should raise the rewards and therefor the loot tables better drops.
The problem with separate servers is that it seems like by definition they're not going to be as good as a game that is designed specifically for that ruleset. What comes to mind is raising the difficulty in a single player campaign for like COD. Ok, I can wratchet up the difficulty level which basically just makes my bullets do less and their bullets do more, but you can feel how shallow that difficult is. Then take a game like Dark Souls, and you can tell the entire game is designed around the high difficulty.
Totally agree with the OP in that a death penalty that actually meant something is one thing I do miss a lot. I player Original EQ from launch for about 6 years (preLuclin era being my favorite by far) and the death penalty was one of many factors that made it so enjoyable for me, even more so than most modern day games. In virtually every game today death is nothing but a minor incoenvenience so its no big deal to charge headlong into an area for the first time to see whats there or an encounter youve never done before, because if you die, no big deal. With Everquest however I found myself slowly and carefully creeping through dungeons peaking around corners and through doors rather than just charging on through without a care because I knew if I died it could be a serious endeavour to get all my stuff back. All of this was just on PVE servers even, playing on PVP servers was a whole nother ball game altogether, especially Rallos Zek where people could loot your platinum and an item lol. Altogether the death penalty added a whole nother level of excitement that came with the fear of dying and the rush when you got into a crazy encounter where you know you might not make it out alive, and even more so when you just barely do. The biggest rush I've ever gotten from a video game at all was the first time I tried to charge through a fully spawned North Temple of Veeshan on my Ranger to try and get into the Plane of Mischief, tons of dragons, including multiple raid bosses, chasing me down as I ran like all hell through a place I had never been and only studied maps of to try and figure out where I was going lol. The adrenaline really got going on that one and it was a hell of a rush, though sadly I made a single wrong turn into a dead end and got totally devoured lol. Took me a good half an hour to get a necromancer out there to summon my corpse but it was still one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've had and was a ton of fun the likes of which doesn't happen in todays games anymore.
But the solution is obvious: Add a hardcore serverset to the games. Better loot, high difficulty and a hard death penalty.
It isn't actually that hard, up all mobs hitpoints 25%, as well as raise the chance to loot good stuff 50% and throw in a fitting death penalty while keeping the regular servers. Don't like it, play the regular servers.
I think adding a harder serverset is as important as having PvP servers, even more if the game is mainly PvE based.
Then again, some people only want the game to have their favorite gameplay but that is just selfish. I wouldn't mind playing on a harder server myself, even if Im more for higher difficulty than caring about death penalty. But when you raise the risks you also should raise the rewards and therefor the loot tables better drops.
Don't need a different server. Just put a difficulty slider in instanced dungeons. Higher challenge equates higher reward. Most gameplay is there anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just pretend that those who like Classic MMORPGs are mainstream, and those who like Modern MMORPGs are outliers?
As another player who's played early non-MMOs, tabletop RPGs, early MMOs, and late MMOs, it's pretty clear that all things considered early MMOs sucked.
This isn't about gaming experience at all. If it was about gaming experience, it'd be exactly opposite of the way you've implied: because I played games before MMORPGs, I immediately identified early MMORPGs as being huge wastes of my time. Why would I play one of them when I could get so much more fun (in so much less time) from all the other types of games which exist?
I mean it's not like I didn't like RPGs. They've always been one of my favorite genres. But classic MMORPGs were bad RPGs. It was because of my experience in better RPGs that I was able to identify them as being bad.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I mean it's not like I didn't like RPGs. They've always been one of my favorite genres. But classic MMORPGs were bad RPGs. It was because of my experience in better RPGs that I was able to identify them as being bad.
Be careful now. You will soon be accused of "not being a "true" mmorpg player", and ask you why you don't go back to SP RPGs.
Identification is not accusation (on it's own, if it's used as a way to segregate and put bias towards people then it is a form of accusation).
Point here being; if one realizes that their values exist to benefit the play of a different medium, then it stands to reason they are better off playing that other medium.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Yes, but people like the OP don't actually miss that feeling. They are upset that other people have the option to play a game that doesn't feature harsh death penalties. It's about playing a game in which you enjoy a mechanic, knowing that others are being frustrated by it so that you can feel superior.
The problem is that the people playing those hardcore modes, is that they all want to be there. No one is suffering, and so that sense of superiority is lost (save for going to that game's forums to call people who play the other modes casuals/carebears) - gotta get that superiority fix somehow!
Maybe, maybe not.
But the solution is obvious: Add a hardcore serverset to the games. Better loot, high difficulty and a hard death penalty.
It isn't actually that hard, up all mobs hitpoints 25%, as well as raise the chance to loot good stuff 50% and throw in a fitting death penalty while keeping the regular servers. Don't like it, play the regular servers.
I think adding a harder serverset is as important as having PvP servers, even more if the game is mainly PvE based.
Then again, some people only want the game to have their favorite gameplay but that is just selfish. I wouldn't mind playing on a harder server myself, even if Im more for higher difficulty than caring about death penalty. But when you raise the risks you also should raise the rewards and therefor the loot tables better drops.
The problem with separate servers is that it seems like by definition they're not going to be as good as a game that is designed specifically for that ruleset. What comes to mind is raising the difficulty in a single player campaign for like COD. Ok, I can wratchet up the difficulty level which basically just makes my bullets do less and their bullets do more, but you can feel how shallow that difficult is. Then take a game like Dark Souls, and you can tell the entire game is designed around the high difficulty.
Which in turn is "corrected" by cheats.
The problem is the reward IS to cheat. When devs are essentially marveled that XYZ or ABC guild found an exploit, players aren't learning that cheating is wrong. When devs are too scared to ban the ills in the game because it cuts in profits, they're doing a disservice to the game itself, turning it into a trash dump.
Do you like spending time in a trash heap and possibly even paying for it?
The answer isn't more segregated communities (as you know the cheaters will immediately run to the hardcore server, hacks in tow), it's better policing.
Game communities are a reflection of RL. If a game's community is but trailer trash, the game itself resembles it. But if the game's community is professional like and their parks and city hall are clean, players overall feel good about their game and how it's played. Positive in, positive out.
For now, devs are more interested in their own paychecks, so games look every bit like a turn of the century East End. -_-
Originally posted by kyssari Totally agree with the OP in that a death penalty that actually meant something is one thing I do miss a lot. I player Original EQ from launch for about 6 years (preLuclin era being my favorite by far) and the death penalty was one of many factors that made it so enjoyable for me, even more so than most modern day games. In virtually every game today death is nothing but a minor incoenvenience so its no big deal to charge headlong into an area for the first time to see whats there or an encounter youve never done before, because if you die, no big deal. With Everquest however I found myself slowly and carefully creeping through dungeons peaking around corners and through doors rather than just charging on through without a care because I knew if I died it could be a serious endeavour to get all my stuff back. All of this was just on PVE servers even, playing on PVP servers was a whole nother ball game altogether, especially Rallos Zek where people could loot your platinum and an item lol. Altogether the death penalty added a whole nother level of excitement that came with the fear of dying and the rush when you got into a crazy encounter where you know you might not make it out alive, and even more so when you just barely do. The biggest rush I've ever gotten from a video game at all was the first time I tried to charge through a fully spawned North Temple of Veeshan on my Ranger to try and get into the Plane of Mischief, tons of dragons, including multiple raid bosses, chasing me down as I ran like all hell through a place I had never been and only studied maps of to try and figure out where I was going lol. The adrenaline really got going on that one and it was a hell of a rush, though sadly I made a single wrong turn into a dead end and got totally devoured lol. Took me a good half an hour to get a necromancer out there to summon my corpse but it was still one of the most memorable gaming experiences I've had and was a ton of fun the likes of which doesn't happen in todays games anymore.
Great Story! I have SOOO many stories like these...all of which come from the games that had meaningful death penalties. If you weren't afraid to die in that situation...you would not have had that great memory. It would have been one of the literally hundreds, if not thousands, of other times you got in over your head, and calmly died...knowing that "eh, no big deal."
I've posted about this in the past, but its been a while... what I miss the MOST about games in general is the "Fear Factor"...the Fear of DEATH. Let me explain by giving you a few examples of what I'm talking about:
I haven't been afraid to die in a game in.....way too long.
Play Dark Souls if fear of death is what you seek.
Point here being; if one realizes that their values exist to benefit the play of a different medium, then it stands to reason they are better off playing that other medium.
This is a sweeping generalization. What matters is individual games. So what if the SP game genre is, on average, better at solo story gameplay?
That is no reason to ignore MMOs that also have fun solo gameplay. No one says the person will ONLY play MMO solo. It is more likely that he will play SP games solo, but occasionally when a MMO can offer fun solo-experience, he will take it too.
I've posted about this in the past, but its been a while... what I miss the MOST about games in general is the "Fear Factor"...the Fear of DEATH. Let me explain by giving you a few examples of what I'm talking about:
I haven't been afraid to die in a game in.....way too long.
Play Dark Souls if fear of death is what you seek.
Comments
Maybe, maybe not.
But the solution is obvious: Add a hardcore serverset to the games. Better loot, high difficulty and a hard death penalty.
It isn't actually that hard, up all mobs hitpoints 25%, as well as raise the chance to loot good stuff 50% and throw in a fitting death penalty while keeping the regular servers. Don't like it, play the regular servers.
I think adding a harder serverset is as important as having PvP servers, even more if the game is mainly PvE based.
Then again, some people only want the game to have their favorite gameplay but that is just selfish. I wouldn't mind playing on a harder server myself, even if Im more for higher difficulty than caring about death penalty. But when you raise the risks you also should raise the rewards and therefor the loot tables better drops.
The problem with separate servers is that it seems like by definition they're not going to be as good as a game that is designed specifically for that ruleset. What comes to mind is raising the difficulty in a single player campaign for like COD. Ok, I can wratchet up the difficulty level which basically just makes my bullets do less and their bullets do more, but you can feel how shallow that difficult is. Then take a game like Dark Souls, and you can tell the entire game is designed around the high difficulty.
Don't need a different server. Just put a difficulty slider in instanced dungeons. Higher challenge equates higher reward. Most gameplay is there anyway.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you just pretend that those who like Classic MMORPGs are mainstream, and those who like Modern MMORPGs are outliers?
As another player who's played early non-MMOs, tabletop RPGs, early MMOs, and late MMOs, it's pretty clear that all things considered early MMOs sucked.
This isn't about gaming experience at all. If it was about gaming experience, it'd be exactly opposite of the way you've implied: because I played games before MMORPGs, I immediately identified early MMORPGs as being huge wastes of my time. Why would I play one of them when I could get so much more fun (in so much less time) from all the other types of games which exist?
I mean it's not like I didn't like RPGs. They've always been one of my favorite genres. But classic MMORPGs were bad RPGs. It was because of my experience in better RPGs that I was able to identify them as being bad.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Be careful now. You will soon be accused of "not being a "true" mmorpg player", and ask you why you don't go back to SP RPGs.
Identification is not accusation (on it's own, if it's used as a way to segregate and put bias towards people then it is a form of accusation).
Point here being; if one realizes that their values exist to benefit the play of a different medium, then it stands to reason they are better off playing that other medium.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
Which in turn is "corrected" by cheats.
The problem is the reward IS to cheat. When devs are essentially marveled that XYZ or ABC guild found an exploit, players aren't learning that cheating is wrong. When devs are too scared to ban the ills in the game because it cuts in profits, they're doing a disservice to the game itself, turning it into a trash dump.
Do you like spending time in a trash heap and possibly even paying for it?
The answer isn't more segregated communities (as you know the cheaters will immediately run to the hardcore server, hacks in tow), it's better policing.
Game communities are a reflection of RL. If a game's community is but trailer trash, the game itself resembles it. But if the game's community is professional like and their parks and city hall are clean, players overall feel good about their game and how it's played. Positive in, positive out.
For now, devs are more interested in their own paychecks, so games look every bit like a turn of the century East End. -_-
.:| Kevyne@Shandris - Armory |:. - When WoW was #1 - .:| I AM A HOLY PALADIN - Guild Theme |:.
Great Story! I have SOOO many stories like these...all of which come from the games that had meaningful death penalties. If you weren't afraid to die in that situation...you would not have had that great memory. It would have been one of the literally hundreds, if not thousands, of other times you got in over your head, and calmly died...knowing that "eh, no big deal."
Play Dark Souls if fear of death is what you seek.
This is a sweeping generalization. What matters is individual games. So what if the SP game genre is, on average, better at solo story gameplay?
That is no reason to ignore MMOs that also have fun solo gameplay. No one says the person will ONLY play MMO solo. It is more likely that he will play SP games solo, but occasionally when a MMO can offer fun solo-experience, he will take it too.
Or D3 hard core.