Yes, you "could" play that game on the PC and it "worked fine", at the expense of shallow gameplay, a crap UI, and very few choices. But for an "MMO" on PC, it was fairly crappy, and it all but needed to be played with a controller. (Design drives gameplay, and system/hardware limitations drive design.)
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
Yes, you "could" play that game on the PC and it "worked fine", at the expense of shallow gameplay, a crap UI, and very few choices. But for an "MMO" on PC, it was fairly crappy, and it all but needed to be played with a controller. (Design drives gameplay, and system/hardware limitations drive design.)
Expect nothing different with EQN.
FF14 is having the same problem. They have done a better job then most but even simple things like nav a map and people are upset lol.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
The architecture as far as software is still the same though and you can call it bull if you choose to but developer interviews say differently.
They also change the way consoles are built later on to fix problems in the original design they are not upgrades like the term means in PCs,they are improvements to build quality and sidegrades to finer nano architecture parts because those parts have become cheaper but the specs remain the same.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
We will take WoW just for the sake that most know the game. They supported PC that were 3-5 years old when the game came out in 2004 but they just ran the game. My friend had to drive his char in a city by first person and the camera pointed at the ground. Driving by the map. As WoW got updated over the years they didnt scale the game to PC from 2000 but from PCs 3-5 years old then. Can you see my friends PC from 2000 doing ok in wintergrasp? Nope, lag, lag, crash. What is required of the PC rig scales with whats current. Cant do that with consoles. This is before you get into the UI.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
We will take WoW just for the sake that most know the game. They supported PC that were 3-5 years old when the game came out in 2004 but they just ran the game. My friend had to drive his char in a city by first person and the camera pointed at the ground. Driving by the map. As WoW got updated over the years they didnt scale the game to PC from 2000 but from PCs 3-5 years old then. Can you see my friends PC from 2000 doing ok in wintergrasp? Nope, lag, lag, crash. What is required of the PC rig scales with whats current. Cant do that with consoles. This is before you get into the UI.
Your friends PC sounded sub par for the game to begin with then. I gave an example of a PC bought with specs to run the game well to excellent which is how an MMO should run for the new gen consoles if optimized properly by the devs.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
The architecture as far as software is still the same though and you can call it bull if you choose to but developer interviews say differently.
They also change the way consoles are built later on to fix problems in the original design they are not upgrades like the term means in PCs,they are improvements to build quality and sidegrades to finer nano architecture parts because those parts have become cheaper but the specs remain the same.
You really dont read what I say, snap reply? You said console stay the same so you can optimize better. I tell you its not true the chip sets change over time on the same console, you admit one of many reason why they do that and then you say they run the same? Specs have nothing to do with the chip sets what it comes to what you call optimized because it stays the same. By your jump all PCs are the same as consoles as its all ATI or Nvid, Intell or..... What you say is true or false. Its cant be both at the same time. What you hope for may one day be. Consoles and PCs can support the same games without a hitch and it will be consumer options but its not there yet. Soon but not yet.
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
We will take WoW just for the sake that most know the game. They supported PC that were 3-5 years old when the game came out in 2004 but they just ran the game. My friend had to drive his char in a city by first person and the camera pointed at the ground. Driving by the map. As WoW got updated over the years they didnt scale the game to PC from 2000 but from PCs 3-5 years old then. Can you see my friends PC from 2000 doing ok in wintergrasp? Nope, lag, lag, crash. What is required of the PC rig scales with whats current. Cant do that with consoles. This is before you get into the UI.
Your friends PC sounded sub par for the game to begin with then. I gave an example of a PC bought with specs to run the game well to excellent which is how an MMO should run for the new gen consoles if optimized properly by the devs.
Still the same thing, they keep the updates scaled to PCs a few years old from now. Not from 2000. You cant do that with consoles they are stuck in time. XB1 will use what ever 8 core CPU they can find that fits the budget today and do the same 5 years from now.
this has turned into console vs pc debate, and all i have to say is this, HD 7970 GHZ crossfired that means 2 of them, with intel quad core CPU , mine is i5 2500k OC to 4.5ghz , umm...... PS4 is 8 core? AMD cpu, and architecture of AMD CPU's are horrid , next is people are all suggesting performance going be 7870 or 7850 or GTX 660, let me just tell you this, compute power does not mean anything in gaming performance, now everyone know's its APU on 8core jagure CPU by AMD, and based on that, AMD GPU CGN architecture is good, on Desktop , but in APU form that completely different story, AMD GPU use
GCN Architecture
compute units
Texture Units
Z/Stencil ROP Units
Color ROP Units
Dual Geometry Engines
Dual Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE)
Now APU on ps4 in computer power as that's what we know is 1.84 tflops, in reality that just factor compute power, amount of texture units and compute units and rops ect are determined factor of performance of AMD GPU's.
So lets say it has HD7870 compute units but has HD 7850 texture units and possibly even lower ROP's then stand HD7850, more Texture units and ROP more heat its tends to produce, so reducing these down = less power draw and less heat. So what am i getting at?
Most likely the next gen console's are not as "good" as most people like to think, with out these factors performance of these console is still up in the air, and i can say this, as a PC hardware engineer , and CPU architecture engineer for IBM , the performance of ps4 is and will be better then xbox1 i can tell you that, due to GDDR5 .
But don't be thinking these console are at any league to PC's in last 2 or 3 or even 4 years, even x58 1366 is better then next gen consoles, CPU power is also big factor for mmo's not GPU power, AI and amount of players that on display are limited by amount of CPU power you got, in there no MMO can use GPU over CPU, it always been CPU over GPU and it will always belike that, with cloud or not CPU is huge factor of performance of MMO.
Now no next gen console stands a chance to PC not now not ever and only until tech reach's a wall. but were going in different direction were enthuist market will start see Dual socket motherboards cater for non server use and that will be in 2 years this will be mean 6+6 CPU = total of 12 cores hell single CPU can have 8 core and alot of threads for what i can remeber for ever 1 core there is 2 threads = threads are vitrual cores btw. for the X series CPU/MOBO
The point, I believe, isn't that I can switch to the better platform if that changes, but that the game is stuck at the lowest denominator.
It would be the same if it were PC only look at the minimum reccomended spec of any gMMO currently old and tell em how old that hardware is?
Also factor in it's much easier to optimize for consoles as there is only one hardware configuration to cater for and learn to use optimally and develop workarounds and tricks for.This usually raises the console performance above similar PC specs,specs that will still be catered for in PC only games 2 years from now and longer.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
We will take WoW just for the sake that most know the game. They supported PC that were 3-5 years old when the game came out in 2004 but they just ran the game. My friend had to drive his char in a city by first person and the camera pointed at the ground. Driving by the map. As WoW got updated over the years they didnt scale the game to PC from 2000 but from PCs 3-5 years old then. Can you see my friends PC from 2000 doing ok in wintergrasp? Nope, lag, lag, crash. What is required of the PC rig scales with whats current. Cant do that with consoles. This is before you get into the UI.
Your friends PC sounded sub par for the game to begin with then. I gave an example of a PC bought with specs to run the game well to excellent which is how an MMO should run for the new gen consoles if optimized properly by the devs.
Still the same thing, they keep the updates scaled to PCs a few years old from now. Not from 2000. You cant do that with consoles they are stuck in time. XB1 will use what ever 8 core CPU they can find that fits the budget today and do the same 5 years from now.
While appreciate you responding to me in a civil way (rare on these forums sometimes) what you are saying is not correct. If I bought a PC in 2004 to run WoW, notice I said 2004 it would still run WoW today period. An MMO developed for a new gen console would be optimized to run very well for said console, therefore it will still run that same MMO years later.
Originally posted by FateFatality this has turned into console vs pc debate, and all i have to say is this, HD 7970 GHZ crossfired that means 2 of them, with intel quad core CPU , mine is i5 2500k OC to 4.5ghz , umm...... PS4 is 8 core? AMD cpu, and architecture of AMD CPU's are horrid , next is people are all suggesting performance going be 7870 or 7850 or GTX 660, let me just tell you this, compute power does not mean anything in gaming performance, now everyone know's its APU on 8core jagure CPU by AMD, and based on that, AMD GPU CGN architecture is good, on Desktop , but in APU form that completely different story, AMD GPU use
GCN Architecture
compute units
Texture Units
Z/Stencil ROP Units
Color ROP Units
Dual Geometry Engines
Dual Asynchronous Compute Engines (ACE)
Now APU on ps4 in computer power as that's what we know is 1.84 tflops, in reality that just factor compute power, amount of texture units and compute units and rops ect are determined factor of performance of AMD GPU's.
So lets say it has HD7870 compute units but has HD 7850 texture units and possibly even lower ROP's then stand HD7850, more Texture units and ROP more heat its tends to produce, so reducing these down = less power draw and less heat. So what am i getting at?
Most likely the next gen console's are not as "good" as most people like to think, with out these factors performance of these console is still up in the air, and i can say this, as a PC hardware engineer , and CPU architecture engineer for IBM , the performance of ps4 is and will be better then xbox1 i can tell you that, due to GDDR5 .
But don't be thinking these console are at any league to PC's in last 2 or 3 or even 4 years, even x58 1366 is better then next gen consoles, CPU power is also big factor for mmo's not GPU power, AI and amount of players that on display are limited by amount of CPU power you got, in there no MMO can use GPU over CPU, it always been CPU over GPU and it will always belike that, with cloud or not CPU is huge factor of performance of MMO.
Now no next gen console stands a chance to PC not now not ever and only until tech reach's a wall. but were going in different direction were enthuist market will start see Dual socket motherboards cater for non server use and that will be in 2 years this will be mean 6+6 CPU = total of 12 cores hell single CPU can have 8 core and alot of threads for what i can remeber for ever 1 core there is 2 threads = threads are vitrual cores btw. for the X series CPU/MOBO
Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles.
The hardware in the consoles is not the problem. The processor power is on the high end and the graphics are on the mid scale. They will work fine with this game. It is the control aspect of the game that will be an issue as stated many times but these consoles WILL have USB support for mouse and keyboard. They should forgo the controller and just work with these or it will be a dumbed down massively menu driven game.
Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Still the same thing, they keep the updates scaled to PCs a few years old from now. Not from 2000. You cant do that with consoles they are stuck in time. XB1 will use what ever 8 core CPU they can find that fits the budget today and do the same 5 years from now.
How does Final Fantasy XI fair looking back on all this? Do the consoles still run the games with the expansions or did it hit the wall that you are speaking of?
At the end of the day, you can't honestly believe that any of these decisions would have been made had the idea of it being a PC to console port hadn't already been in place.
It wasn't "Let's make a great game and port it over to our new console", more like "What kind of game can we make to satisfy XYZ across both platforms"
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
Originally posted by Nanfoodle You really dont read what I say, snap reply? You said console stay the same so you can optimize better. I tell you its not true the chip sets change over time on the same console, you admit one of many reason why they do that and then you say they run the same? Specs have nothing to do with the chip sets what it comes to what you call optimized because it stays the same. By your jump all PCs are the same as consoles as its all ATI or Nvid, Intell or..... What you say is true or false. Its cant be both at the same time. What you hope for may one day be. Consoles and PCs can support the same games without a hitch and it will be consumer options but its not there yet. Soon but not yet.
It is much easier to optimize code for a console than for the PC. The hardware is pretty static, and has very little variety. Especially this current generation of consoles getting ready to release. PCs have many different types of video cards, many different kinds of processors and a few different operating systems.
What will happen though is that PCs will brute force their way past consoles at some point, possibly quickly. So initially, games that release on the consoles will be comparable or better than games that release on the PC. For the MMORPGs that release early in the console's life cycle, they will stay comparable to their PC counterparts throughout their lifetimes. Significant upgrades to graphics don't usually happen for MMORPGs. For MMORPGs that release after the tipping point though, there could be some corners cut and it may or may not matter. MMORPGs don't really push the cutting edge of graphics anyway, so that performance metric isn't nearly as important as it is for single player action games. Even there, Xbox and PS3 games sell really well, in record breaking numbers more than five years after the consoles released so the console version having slightly less HD graphics may not matter.
I don't think it's going to matter. A bigger issue is going to be needing or not needing a keyboard for chat.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Zydari The hardware in the consoles is not the problem. The processor power is on the high end and the graphics are on the mid scale. They will work fine with this game. It is the control aspect of the game that will be an issue as stated many times but these consoles WILL have USB support for mouse and keyboard. They should forgo the controller and just work with these or it will be a dumbed down massively menu driven game.
Originally posted by Zydari The hardware in the consoles is not the problem. The processor power is on the high end and the graphics are on the mid scale. They will work fine with this game. It is the control aspect of the game that will be an issue as stated many times but these consoles WILL have USB support for mouse and keyboard. They should forgo the controller and just work with these or it will be a dumbed down massively menu driven game.
Voice Chat will solve the keyboard issue.
8 skills at a time solves the controller issue.
My question is about combat and how that will affect the process between keyboard/mouse vs. controller.
Why is the concept so difficult to grasp for people here? If game is made for console it has to be dumbed down in every aspect. That is the only way it can play on consoles. PC's are far and away more powerful than consoles. Therefore in order to make it work on console, they have to optimize it for that platform and not take advantage of the power PC's have. Console players want people to believe that PS4 is going to be so wonderful, and it may be, for a console. It will still never hold a candle to a PC.
Power wise, both PS4 and XBOne are much more powerful than the average modern PC and could easily max all current MMOs. If we were talking about the current, outdated generation of consoles, you'd be right, but not in this case.
No, the thing that could really harm EQN is the way consoles are controlled. Console games have to work well with controllers and that often leads to consolitis in UI and gameplay design. Defiance is a good example of this.
No point even arguing if you believe that.
I believe it. Because it's true. PS4/XBOX ONE specs are better than the AVERAGE person's PC. We aren't talking about those who spend thousands on THE top of the line PC just for the sake of having it. My son has a 3-4 year old laptop that runs on integrated graphics, 2.1ghz quad core and has 4GIGS OF RAM! He can run Wow, GW2, DC Universe, DDO, Neverwinter, EQ1/EQ2.
My PC isn't much better. It has a little more RAM and a way better graphics cards. I can run all those games on Ultra (or highest) settings and have zero lag. I consider myself a huge gamer with an avg PC. I play against a lot worse and they all tell me their systems lag. PS4/XBOX ONE has decent specs to run any MMO out right now with zero problems. You can spend thousands on a PC and NEVER have ANY MMO stretch the limits graphically. companies would be stupid to cater ONLY to high end users. That's why WoW is so successful. You can play it on a calculator. This is why EQN will thrive because anyone will be able to play it
So get off your high horse and your superiority trip. Consoles are fine and are just as good as most PCs.
Originally posted by jdnyc Originally posted by ZydariThe hardware in the consoles is not the problem. The processor power is on the high end and the graphics are on the mid scale. They will work fine with this game. It is the control aspect of the game that will be an issue as stated many times but these consoles WILL have USB support for mouse and keyboard. They should forgo the controller and just work with these or it will be a dumbed down massively menu driven game.
Voice Chat will solve the keyboard issue.
8 skills at a time solves the controller issue.
My question is about combat and how that will affect the process between keyboard/mouse vs. controller.
Voice chat doesn't scale well unless all the people know each other and are in an organized group. It absolutely wouldn't work for something like global or regional chat.
Developers are probably going to use cell phones or tablets for that though. Ugh.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Ok here's whats going to happen during the next generation of consoles:
Some dev like Rockstar or Ubisoft is going design a UI that becomes the new console MMO standard. It'll make pc UIs look like clunky spreadsheets and we will wonder how we put up with that design for so long.
Still the same thing, they keep the updates scaled to PCs a few years old from now. Not from 2000. You cant do that with consoles they are stuck in time. XB1 will use what ever 8 core CPU they can find that fits the budget today and do the same 5 years from now.
How does Final Fantasy XI fair looking back on all this? Do the consoles still run the games with the expansions or did it hit the wall that you are speaking of?
Dont know, I stopped playing that game years ago. I remember using the UI on my controler was very awkward and I was forced to buy a mouse and keyboard. As for their updates Im not sure. Did they scale them to the first xbox? FF fans for the most part are a group that has their own box. Heck they still played FF14 1.0 for a long time when no other MMO fan would not. So I am not sure how to judge that.
Originally posted by Burdoc101 As a PC gamer I see no problem with EQN being on consoles as long as EQN is focused on PC first. New consoles are just going to be glorified PCs with controllers. Dave Georgeson has stated that they are looking at different approaches to the title but he is focusing on PC first. A broader player base, introducing more people to the mmo world and providing revenue for the game. How can the console be bad for EQN?
It is not bad and may be great if it's a port to console. The only problems come when it's done with console first. I have played about 6 games that were console first and pc second and the GUI/controls/ everything that gives freedom on pc was gone....dumbed down...horribly untouched in the transfer.
8 core cpu with 1.6ghz or 1.8ghz is not in same league as quad core at 3.8 or 4+ghz ,architecture on amd cpu's are badddddd they just don't even come close, mmo's are cpu depended enough said.
Comments
To the OP:
Please see DCUO for comparable example.
Yes, you "could" play that game on the PC and it "worked fine", at the expense of shallow gameplay, a crap UI, and very few choices. But for an "MMO" on PC, it was fairly crappy, and it all but needed to be played with a controller. (Design drives gameplay, and system/hardware limitations drive design.)
Expect nothing different with EQN.
Thats bull, better performance because they lower whats required. Also just like PCs consoles dont have the same chip sets from the first year they were built to the same console build 2 years later. I have a first gen xbox and I could not take parts from an xbox 2 years later to fix it. This is fact.
What confuses me with your argument is that if I buy a PC that has the specs to run a specific MMO that came out 1-8 years ago depending on what game it was that PC still runs that MMO today. Sure some expansions might have some improved graphics but that just means keeping my settings the same or lowering them. So how exactly is that any different then an MMO developed that runs on the new or current gen of consoles?
No signature, I don't have a pen
FF14 is having the same problem. They have done a better job then most but even simple things like nav a map and people are upset lol.
The architecture as far as software is still the same though and you can call it bull if you choose to but developer interviews say differently.
They also change the way consoles are built later on to fix problems in the original design they are not upgrades like the term means in PCs,they are improvements to build quality and sidegrades to finer nano architecture parts because those parts have become cheaper but the specs remain the same.
We will take WoW just for the sake that most know the game. They supported PC that were 3-5 years old when the game came out in 2004 but they just ran the game. My friend had to drive his char in a city by first person and the camera pointed at the ground. Driving by the map. As WoW got updated over the years they didnt scale the game to PC from 2000 but from PCs 3-5 years old then. Can you see my friends PC from 2000 doing ok in wintergrasp? Nope, lag, lag, crash. What is required of the PC rig scales with whats current. Cant do that with consoles. This is before you get into the UI.
Your friends PC sounded sub par for the game to begin with then. I gave an example of a PC bought with specs to run the game well to excellent which is how an MMO should run for the new gen consoles if optimized properly by the devs.
No signature, I don't have a pen
You really dont read what I say, snap reply? You said console stay the same so you can optimize better. I tell you its not true the chip sets change over time on the same console, you admit one of many reason why they do that and then you say they run the same? Specs have nothing to do with the chip sets what it comes to what you call optimized because it stays the same. By your jump all PCs are the same as consoles as its all ATI or Nvid, Intell or..... What you say is true or false. Its cant be both at the same time. What you hope for may one day be. Consoles and PCs can support the same games without a hitch and it will be consumer options but its not there yet. Soon but not yet.
Still the same thing, they keep the updates scaled to PCs a few years old from now. Not from 2000. You cant do that with consoles they are stuck in time. XB1 will use what ever 8 core CPU they can find that fits the budget today and do the same 5 years from now.
While appreciate you responding to me in a civil way (rare on these forums sometimes) what you are saying is not correct. If I bought a PC in 2004 to run WoW, notice I said 2004 it would still run WoW today period. An MMO developed for a new gen console would be optimized to run very well for said console, therefore it will still run that same MMO years later.
No signature, I don't have a pen
=-)
FFXI launched on PS2 before the mmo came to PCs
-- FFXI is not a "dumbed down" mmo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI
EQ2 fan sites
Experience demands that man is the only animal which devours his own kind, for I can apply no milder term to the general prey of the rich on the poor.
Thomas Jefferson
How does Final Fantasy XI fair looking back on all this? Do the consoles still run the games with the expansions or did it hit the wall that you are speaking of?
"How can the console be bad for EQN?"
Terrible cartoon graphics
Only 8 skills
Auto-jump,duck,roll
Dumbed down UI
Missing /emotes
Clickies!
/Hail, /c, %t and other trademark EQ macros
At the end of the day, you can't honestly believe that any of these decisions would have been made had the idea of it being a PC to console port hadn't already been in place.
It wasn't "Let's make a great game and port it over to our new console", more like "What kind of game can we make to satisfy XYZ across both platforms"
The above is my personal opinion. Anyone displaying a view contrary to my opinion is obviously WRONG and should STHU. (neener neener)
-The MMO Forum Community
It is much easier to optimize code for a console than for the PC. The hardware is pretty static, and has very little variety. Especially this current generation of consoles getting ready to release. PCs have many different types of video cards, many different kinds of processors and a few different operating systems.
What will happen though is that PCs will brute force their way past consoles at some point, possibly quickly. So initially, games that release on the consoles will be comparable or better than games that release on the PC. For the MMORPGs that release early in the console's life cycle, they will stay comparable to their PC counterparts throughout their lifetimes. Significant upgrades to graphics don't usually happen for MMORPGs. For MMORPGs that release after the tipping point though, there could be some corners cut and it may or may not matter. MMORPGs don't really push the cutting edge of graphics anyway, so that performance metric isn't nearly as important as it is for single player action games. Even there, Xbox and PS3 games sell really well, in record breaking numbers more than five years after the consoles released so the console version having slightly less HD graphics may not matter.
I don't think it's going to matter. A bigger issue is going to be needing or not needing a keyboard for chat.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
=-)
Well said
@Lizard
perfectly stated post.
No signature, I don't have a pen
Voice Chat will solve the keyboard issue.
8 skills at a time solves the controller issue.
My question is about combat and how that will affect the process between keyboard/mouse vs. controller.
I believe it. Because it's true. PS4/XBOX ONE specs are better than the AVERAGE person's PC. We aren't talking about those who spend thousands on THE top of the line PC just for the sake of having it. My son has a 3-4 year old laptop that runs on integrated graphics, 2.1ghz quad core and has 4GIGS OF RAM! He can run Wow, GW2, DC Universe, DDO, Neverwinter, EQ1/EQ2.
My PC isn't much better. It has a little more RAM and a way better graphics cards. I can run all those games on Ultra (or highest) settings and have zero lag. I consider myself a huge gamer with an avg PC. I play against a lot worse and they all tell me their systems lag. PS4/XBOX ONE has decent specs to run any MMO out right now with zero problems. You can spend thousands on a PC and NEVER have ANY MMO stretch the limits graphically. companies would be stupid to cater ONLY to high end users. That's why WoW is so successful. You can play it on a calculator. This is why EQN will thrive because anyone will be able to play it
So get off your high horse and your superiority trip. Consoles are fine and are just as good as most PCs.
8 skills at a time solves the controller issue.
My question is about combat and how that will affect the process between keyboard/mouse vs. controller.
Voice chat doesn't scale well unless all the people know each other and are in an organized group. It absolutely wouldn't work for something like global or regional chat.
Developers are probably going to use cell phones or tablets for that though. Ugh.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
/crystal ball
Ok here's whats going to happen during the next generation of consoles:
Some dev like Rockstar or Ubisoft is going design a UI that becomes the new console MMO standard. It'll make pc UIs look like clunky spreadsheets and we will wonder how we put up with that design for so long.
Dont know, I stopped playing that game years ago. I remember using the UI on my controler was very awkward and I was forced to buy a mouse and keyboard. As for their updates Im not sure. Did they scale them to the first xbox? FF fans for the most part are a group that has their own box. Heck they still played FF14 1.0 for a long time when no other MMO fan would not. So I am not sure how to judge that.
It is not bad and may be great if it's a port to console. The only problems come when it's done with console first. I have played about 6 games that were console first and pc second and the GUI/controls/ everything that gives freedom on pc was gone....dumbed down...horribly untouched in the transfer.