It's time to put a end to the healing and tanking roles.
A mob shouldnt be dumb enough to get taunted by a big tank as much as it does not make since that a wolf would be able to taunt a sheep.
The healing role shouldnt be as op as they are in other mmo's. It should be hard to support one player and not possible to support everyone in one room like in wow.
The AI could be smarter, certainly would help the gameplay. However, if AI was really really 'smart', how would it behave? It would drop stuns/snares and attack either the thing hitting it the hardest (biggest threat to its life), or the thing healing the things hitting it. If AI was smart enough.
So that means it will be a DPS pong, but the question still remains on how they handle heals. The GW2 vid posted here shows how lame a DPS zerg can be, and the little green ticks of heals for some random attribute is the shinning example of how they tried to force everyone to play one way. Beautiful game, amazing worlds, but I just did not have a class I was interested in playing.
If the AI was truly smart, it would hide with 50 of its buddies in the woods and jump us from behind, or see us coming and pick flight vs fight.... Run away!! Run away!!
The Devs talked about this a little. They said npc's aren't going to necessarily be running far distances to get to ranged classes/healers as that may not be advantageous to the mob. While they're moving they're not attacking or anything and just being dps'ed down. If this is actually true, I think "tanking" will still exist in some form as the mob will realize it might as well just keep attacking the warrior on its ass as it's futile to run after the mage who just blinks away when it gets near.
Or they'll really screw everything up... one can dream at least
Currently, there is 1 guy at SOE that is smarter than the 1000's on this forum. Because it doesn't matter how we twist and turn, none has yet to come up with a viable solution to a no-trinity system that people like.
No, I don't believe this bullshit that comes from SOE about this. I also bet that they are reading like crazy here and sees that all the solutions that's been talked about is not positive ones. I wonder, if the smart ass at SOE has one of those solutions as the brainy one. LOL
UO, SWG, EVE, and GW1 are all games without the trinity.
Eve has healers... and they do have a variety of different ship types, some which tank very well (and you can spec for tanking). In PvE, there is also aggro management. So Eve isn't as far off the trinity as you would think.
SWG also had trinity.. you had healers in the field.. you also had entertainers to buff you before battle.. there were some classes with aggro abilities (teras kasi).. they were more DPS than tanks, though, so this one is more right.
Add "tank" to that too, i love tanking and healing, ever since i started playing rpg i have always either played Tank or Healer role. i never liked dps class for some reason, not my type i guess. even though i am not at all interested in EQN but i am very much interested in Storybrickc and as we all know the AI of EQN is being done with Storybricks, so i am just hoping they don't completely kill healing or tanking. they don't want to make healer and tank mandatory for grouping, i am fine with it but i hope they don't completely kill these roll.
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Healers will not be killed. It will just be one of those 40 classes that players can choose to specialize in. There will no longer be a "designated healer" (baseball pun not intended), instead there will be certain players in a group who have chosen to augment their healing class and who will be asked to do the healing in the group, but those players would also be able to do DPS or even to tank if they trained those classes too. This is good because you won't see as many players getting rejected from groups because said groups already have a healer. Instead, the player could do DPS or tank instead and they would actually be able to do it, unlike the status quo where you get classes trying to play off spec which usually ends up in failure.
Originally posted by Mardukk I suspect that EQN is not going to completely remove healing others like GW2 did. I also think there can be a specialization in healing without having the hard trinity.
What are you talking about? Have you ever actually played GW2? Not only could you heal others in Guild Wars 2, any class can specialize to be able to heal others (Although Guardians and Water Elementalists were the best at it)
Water Elementalists using a staff could heal others with every attack using their #1 slot auto-attack.
Blood Necros, Tactical Warriors and Inspiration Mesmers also heal others, although they do so by giving others a regeneration buff and stacking +boon duration and +healing. (Mesmers also need specific traits to do it - my build was Chaos/Inspiration spreading boons around to all allies)
I know this thread isn't about GW2, but many people are comparing it to GW2 and making claims about GW2 that aren't true.
Originally posted by Mardukk I suspect that EQN is not going to completely remove healing others like GW2 did. I also think there can be a specialization in healing without having the hard trinity.
What are you talking about? Have you ever actually played GW2? Not only could you heal others in Guild Wars 2, any class can specialize to be able to heal others (Although Guardians and Water Elementalists were the best at it)
Water Elementalists using a staff could heal others with every attack using their #1 slot auto-attack.
Blood Necros, Tactical Warriors and Inspiration Mesmers also heal others, although they do so by giving others a regeneration buff and stacking +boon duration and +healing. (Mesmers also need specific traits to do it - my build was Chaos/Inspiration spreading boons around to all allies)
I know this thread isn't about GW2, but many people are comparing it to GW2 and making claims about GW2 that aren't true.
I played a staff Ele to 80 and the healing was best in the game, however, you could just spam 2-3 abilities and that was it. SO you would jump back and forth between mediocre DPS in fire/earth/air and then back to water for some MEH healing. Rinse/repeat, and run to the zerg.
I hope EQN does more to make healing/support complex and a challenge to play. If not, then why have it, just DPS race to the end and respawn.
Originally posted by czombie Healers will not be killed. It will just be one of those 40 classes that players can choose to specialize in. There will no longer be a "designated healer" (baseball pun not intended), instead there will be certain players in a group who have chosen to augment their healing class and who will be asked to do the healing in the group, but those players would also be able to do DPS or even to tank if they trained those classes too. This is good because you won't see as many players getting rejected from groups because said groups already have a healer. Instead, the player could do DPS or tank instead and they would actually be able to do it, unlike the status quo where you get classes trying to play off spec which usually ends up in failure.
I can't wait to play a class that isn't necessary.
The more I read information about EQ:N, and the community's discussion of important aspects of the known information, the more I think there are only a few distinct ways to implement a fantasy combat system.
A trinity based system, where specialized classes exist to fulfill specific roles in a group dynamic.
A collision-based rugby scrum-like combat, where combatants must shield non-combatant specialists (healers, casters, archers) with their bodies.
A tank-mage system where everyone does everything. Not very group friendly.
A 'realistic' system where magical abilities (fireball, healing, buffs, etc.) do not exist in the combat environment. (I'd love it, but probably no one else would).
A rotating specialty system, where everyone could do everything, but must select a specialty (an out-of-combat operation) similar to Ryzom.
My worst fear is that EQ:N, with the ability to change classes apparently at will, will tend to favor the tank-mage situation, where everyone is capable of doing everything. But I'm really beginning to suspect that it will end up being a lot closer to Ryzom than any of the other choices.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
So let me get this straight -- every character can be up to 40 different roles, not counting multiclass, including cleric in this example, and you're worried that one won't be online to heal you? You could just swap into your cleric pants and problem solved, or am I missing something?
Wait, you don't want to do that?
Well the OP doesn't want to be told that he has to DPS.
Here's hoping for dedicated healer/CC/support/tank/puller classes, which we already know aren't "required", whatever that means.
One of the rules in table tops through to MMOS, has always been “Don’t leave the Cleric behind.”, but it seems the new games are doing just that.
And what if there is no "Cleric" online to heal my group? Then what... Sit around waiting for someone to log on or risk the experience on a PUG "healer"?
Quit fearing change. Change is necessary to evolve into better situations. With that being said, I do not want the ability of being a certain role to go away, but I do think it needs to evolve so that if that one role is not available it doesn't inconvenience other people. Done right, the removal of trinity can be a good thing for MMO's.
So let me get this straight -- every character can be up to 40 different roles, not counting multiclass, including cleric in this example, and you're worried that one won't be online to heal you? You could just swap into your cleric pants and problem solved, or am I missing something?
Wait, you don't want to do that?
Well the OP doesn't want to be told that he has to DPS.
Here's hoping for dedicated healer/CC/support/tank/puller classes, which we already know aren't "required", whatever that means.
If the system allows allocation of skills towards healing abilities, or if heals are tied to weapons, and even classes wielding select weapons I am fine. I really don't want to be put into a place where I don't have any of the skills that tie directly to the success of my party. I want a clear line on how to benefit the party, and not be excluded from play based on play style preference.
Comments
The Devs talked about this a little. They said npc's aren't going to necessarily be running far distances to get to ranged classes/healers as that may not be advantageous to the mob. While they're moving they're not attacking or anything and just being dps'ed down. If this is actually true, I think "tanking" will still exist in some form as the mob will realize it might as well just keep attacking the warrior on its ass as it's futile to run after the mage who just blinks away when it gets near.
Or they'll really screw everything up... one can dream at least
Eve has healers... and they do have a variety of different ship types, some which tank very well (and you can spec for tanking). In PvE, there is also aggro management. So Eve isn't as far off the trinity as you would think.
SWG also had trinity.. you had healers in the field.. you also had entertainers to buff you before battle.. there were some classes with aggro abilities (teras kasi).. they were more DPS than tanks, though, so this one is more right.
Didn't play GW1..
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
What are you talking about? Have you ever actually played GW2? Not only could you heal others in Guild Wars 2, any class can specialize to be able to heal others (Although Guardians and Water Elementalists were the best at it)
Water Elementalists using a staff could heal others with every attack using their #1 slot auto-attack.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Water_Blast
Guardians had a class feature that could be activated to heal themselves and all allies;
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Virtue_of_Resolve
Blood Necros, Tactical Warriors and Inspiration Mesmers also heal others, although they do so by giving others a regeneration buff and stacking +boon duration and +healing. (Mesmers also need specific traits to do it - my build was Chaos/Inspiration spreading boons around to all allies)
I know this thread isn't about GW2, but many people are comparing it to GW2 and making claims about GW2 that aren't true.
I played a staff Ele to 80 and the healing was best in the game, however, you could just spam 2-3 abilities and that was it. SO you would jump back and forth between mediocre DPS in fire/earth/air and then back to water for some MEH healing. Rinse/repeat, and run to the zerg.
I hope EQN does more to make healing/support complex and a challenge to play. If not, then why have it, just DPS race to the end and respawn.
I can't wait to play a class that isn't necessary.
The more I read information about EQ:N, and the community's discussion of important aspects of the known information, the more I think there are only a few distinct ways to implement a fantasy combat system.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
So let me get this straight -- every character can be up to 40 different roles, not counting multiclass, including cleric in this example, and you're worried that one won't be online to heal you? You could just swap into your cleric pants and problem solved, or am I missing something?
Wait, you don't want to do that?
Well the OP doesn't want to be told that he has to DPS.
Here's hoping for dedicated healer/CC/support/tank/puller classes, which we already know aren't "required", whatever that means.
If the system allows allocation of skills towards healing abilities, or if heals are tied to weapons, and even classes wielding select weapons I am fine. I really don't want to be put into a place where I don't have any of the skills that tie directly to the success of my party. I want a clear line on how to benefit the party, and not be excluded from play based on play style preference.