One thing I hope is that since weapon is gear, that you can find a sweet staff that modifies skills in a way that puts a twist on how certain classes may use it. Then collecting different types of staffs would add some longevity.
They did mention that this would be the case when they gave the example of the teleporting rogue that would be out of power after teleporting, so they would need a weapon that drains power to support that. Or something along those lines.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Don't really get how this is new, or something that was brought on by GW2. Weapon specific skills have always existed. In most cases not all skills were weapon specific, but generally there were several which required the use of a specific type of weapon.
You wouldnt equip a mace and be capable of using dagger based backstab & poison skills. You wouldnt equip a gun like a rifle and be capable of using longbow specific arrow volley & flaming arrow skills. You wouldnt equip a 2 hander sword and be able to use shield based skills.
Sure some skills were shared across multiple weapons, but thats the only thing that has changed. Now instead of shared skills with only a portion being weapon specific, your entire skillset is weapon specific. TBH though, it's not as big of a change as many make it out to be. Certain weapons generally always had specific effects (whether it be damage types or varying bonus effects like stuns, KDs, bleeds, etc) which were still activated through the use of shared skills.
All thats different now is the name & animation in most cases. There isnt anything actually "different" between many of the weapon specific skills. Your basic attacks with a sword still tend to generally do about the same thing as your mace skills, only the additional effects are linked directly to a skill rather than having a shared skill with a proc based on weapon type.
You're only tricking yourself into believing that its some drastic change from the old system.
Maybe magic users don't have to have weapons but could use talismans and crosses ect. That could add spells where weapon spells or abilities are used. A cleric could have a item that gives that class extra heals or cures instead of fighting abilities. Haveing spells that depend on what you have in your hand slot could work very well.
Originally posted by kaiser3282 Don't really get how this is new, or something that was brought on by GW2. Weapon specific skills have always existed. In most cases not all skills were weapon specific, but generally there were several which required the use of a specific type of weapon.You wouldnt equip a mace and be capable of using dagger based backstab & poison skills. You wouldnt equip a gun like a rifle and be capable of using longbow specific arrow volley & flaming arrow skills. You wouldnt equip a 2 hander sword and be able to use shield based skills. Sure some skills were shared across multiple weapons, but thats the only thing that has changed. Now instead of shared skills with only a portion being weapon specific, your entire skillset is weapon specific. TBH though, it's not as big of a change as many make it out to be. Certain weapons generally always had specific effects (whether it be damage types or varying bonus effects like stuns, KDs, bleeds, etc) which were still activated through the use of shared skills.All thats different now is the name & animation in most cases. There isnt anything actually "different" between many of the weapon specific skills. Your basic attacks with a sword still tend to generally do about the same thing as your mace skills, only the additional effects are linked directly to a skill rather than having a shared skill with a proc based on weapon type.You're only tricking yourself into believing that its some drastic change from the old system.
Is true. Back when I played Everquest 2, my Inquisitor had some weapon specific skills. Had to have 2-handed hammer for 1. A hammer/shield for 2 of them. And one required holding a staff.
Yes don't you love how wonderfully restrictive and shallow this could end up? It could result in one of two possibilities. One being that a certain weapon choice leads to a specific path of progression, meaning that you're still gaining new skills and abilities making combat interesting and more of an evolution in your tactics. The other would be more like GW2 where your choice results in the same skills ........the entire game.......the end......that's what you end up with period (we really really hope you like those few attacks, mix them up for great success!).
If it results in the latter then more power to everyone who loves that kind of thing. If you think about it, that's the kind of character who never gets more powerful even if you spend years on him. It's like saying "HI! Thanks for creating me! I'm really strong and now I'm done with my training. Lets go on adventures and grow together.....well, you can grow along side me because I'm done." So freaking sad.
only makes sense that a staff and a scepter should have different skills. Same for a greats word and a dagger. GW2 does it that way and it is great, I have a invisible bag that I keep different weapons and armor in and change them out for soloing, dungeons, zerg grouping etc.
The system really allows for a lot of flexibility in your character. You are out soloing and set up for DD and your guild needs a tan. Just swap weapons and, armor if you want, and poof you can tank. 30 seconds and you can change your characters stats and abilities all around.
I understand that there would be differing play style that varies from weapon to weapon, that's not the whole of the idea I was trying to get across. Will there be a progression of skills beyond your initial abilities based on your weapon choice? Or will you be stuck with the same abilities you receive upon equipping said weapon?
It makes more than the fair amount of sense that the skills would be different based on what you're holding in your hand but will there be any evolution/progression at all when it comes to weapon skills? That is what I'm trying to ask.
First of all, I will promise you with 100% certainty, that there will be a necromancer class at launch. It is one of the obvious trademark fantasy classes, and if it's not in, SOE has failed as gaming developers. If for some reason it isn't in, it will be shortly after launch, as the continue to add new classes to the game.
I truly believe that there will be enough classes, where you can find the weapon set/armor type combination that you are looking for, with the class ability categories that fit your character style preference. I mean, there will be, at least should be, over 160 unique character abilities to choose from. They should create enough differing classes so almost any logical combination of weapons and armor can be used. I think some people are just getting really paranoid, and they aren't giving enough credit to the designers.
I'd suggest to give it some time. Let some class info come out, and then start freaking out if all of your questions aren't answered/
Yes don't you love how wonderfully restrictive and shallow this could end up? It could result in one of two possibilities. One being that a certain weapon choice leads to a specific path of progression, meaning that you're still gaining new skills and abilities making combat interesting and more of an evolution in your tactics. The other would be more like GW2 where your choice results in the same skills ........the entire game.......the end......that's what you end up with period (we really really hope you like those few attacks, mix them up for great success!).
If it results in the latter then more power to everyone who loves that kind of thing. If you think about it, that's the kind of character who never gets more powerful even if you spend years on him. It's like saying "HI! Thanks for creating me! I'm really strong and now I'm done with my training. Lets go on adventures and grow together.....well, you can grow along side me because I'm done." So freaking sad.
I think their setup is supposed to simulate the idea of leveling up. Each new class that you will obtain will make you think. Should you change to a new weapon? Should you alter your build based on a new item with a nice class passive? Should I use any of these four new class abilities that I just got? I really think it will make people tinker and be really creative in their builds.
I can see it. But, I've been playing games with a flexible system like this for years and years. It's going to be very flexible. In fact, I think most people are going to be quickly overwhelmed with the amount of choice you'll have over how your character plays.
What is so hard to imagine weapon based skills? In the class panel the weapon skills they showed seems rather logical. A nice huge sword is rather heavy. When you swing it in a arc from rigth to left it seems to me a good way to sweep the room and hit all the mobs in the path. Or when you slam the thing to the ground you create a shockwave that knocks all the mobs down.
Originally posted by MrMongoose30 Or they could you know...use their multi class system. Not a fan of certain sword/shield ability's on your warrior why not swap some with a paladin or guardian type classes. This is what I don't get they already have the multi class system in place why not use it to the full advantage so it applys to weapons AND class abilitys
A EQN class is really more like archetype + weapon = "class". Although each class is limited to 2 weapon types (confirmed through Darrin tweet), how do we know that each "sword" or "axe" is going to have the same abilities on them. Remember weapons are not just stat boosters, they have actual meaning to the game play.
So Warrior can use Mace/Shield and a 2H sword. But the abilities on different 2H swords is unknown. So maybe this 2H sword has a +teleport speed, while another 2H sword has +damage. These are not limiting factors, they open up some great opportunities.
Weapon abilities are directly tied to your "primary" class. Meaning if I choose to be a Rogue, then all of my character ability slots come from being a Rogue, so I can have 2 offensive slots and 2 utility slots. My weapon choices might be bow and dagger (I've not confirmed what Rogue weapons are yet). I choose to go with Bow. I want some type of caster bow rogue, so I look up an offensive ability from my unlock classes. Oh here is a nice wizard spell I like, and then I slot that into 1 of my character offensive slots. My 4 weapon abilities will come from my bow, but the actual bow I equip may have +max range, or +speed.
I mean you wouldn't use a sword the same way you'd use a spear, or a mace, all very different uses.
I just hope, and this is where Guild Wars 2 failed miserably, that you get NEW weapon skills and upgrades.
I don't want to get 4 weapon skills after playing for an hour, then NEVER GET ANY NEW ONES.
You should unlock more weapon skills as you play, and they don't have to be more "powerful" weapon skills either (if there's pvp this would imbalance it imo) but rather just more moves that offer more combat choices and situational effects.
I mean you wouldn't use a sword the same way you'd use a spear, or a mace, all very different uses.
I just hope, and this is where Guild Wars 2 failed miserably, that you get NEW weapon skills and upgrades.
I don't want to get 4 weapon skills after playing for an hour, then NEVER GET ANY NEW ONES.
You should unlock more weapon skills as you play, and they don't have to be more "powerful" weapon skills either (if there's pvp this would imbalance it imo) but rather just more moves that offer more combat choices and situational effects.
This^ I feel this is one of the key areas GW2 fell flat for me. It would be nice if there was a skill pool for the weapons so I can pick abilities that fit my playstyle rather than having skills set and never able to be changed out. Swapping weapons in GW2 was fine and all but I hated that most weapons had 2-3 skills I liked and the other 2-3 I hated.
It doesn't make sense for a caster at all. I like the way casters have traditionally worked in fantasy meaning their power comes from their spellbook or through their natural magic. A weapon with bound magic or enchanted with magic is what clickies in Everquest were for. Using a weapon to enhance your magic is what Focus effects in Everquest were for. That system is much better because you can associate specific special spells, that would normally be too hard or time consuming for the caster to cast, to individual weapons rather than a system that impies that the weapon is what is allowing you to achieve basic magic. Everquest Next's method makes the weapon seem special and not the spell caster. With this system if you want to cast Dagger spells you have to hold a dagger whether it is a rusty dagger or the Godly Dagger.
The only way this system makes sense for a caster is the way D&D 4.0 handles it--more supplementary effects as you channel your magic through it. That system wouldn't work in EQ Next though because they've invested half of the possible abilities into the system. So now we are likely stuck with, "Well, I have to hold a dagger if I want to cast fireball." Which is stupid.
I don't really have a problem with skills being bound. Perhaps if they had an option to change appearance so the dagger could look like a staff if you wanted it to.
My problem is more the number of skills, or rather the percentage. If we had 20 selectable skills then I wouldn't mind 4, but with only 8 total slots I hate that 4 are tied to the weapon. Even 3 and 5 would be a large improvement, 2 and 6 would be better yet.
If they are allowing everyone to just flip their classes around pretty much at will, then won't everyone just be picking the proven max damage output build? Appears like this could be just another action shooter designed for a younger audience.
During the opening reveal, he said when he was showing a picture of the different weapon types that a crafter could take part from one weapon and add it to another and this would change the weapon's appearance and abilities. Then during the class panel they said you couldn't change a weapons abilities.
During the opening reveal, he said when he was showing a picture of the different weapon types that a crafter could take part from one weapon and add it to another and this would change the weapon's appearance and abilities. Then during the class panel they said you couldn't change a weapons abilities.
Which one is it?
They never said it would change your abilities, it might do something like increase the length of the weapon so it's able to hit more enemies or increase damage from certain types of attacks.
During the opening reveal, he said when he was showing a picture of the different weapon types that a crafter could take part from one weapon and add it to another and this would change the weapon's appearance and abilities. Then during the class panel they said you couldn't change a weapons abilities.
Which one is it?
They never said it would change your abilities, it might do something like increase the length of the weapon so it's able to hit more enemies or increase damage from certain types of attacks.
During the opening reveal, he said when he was showing a picture of the different weapon types that a crafter could take part from one weapon and add it to another and this would change the weapon's appearance and abilities. Then during the class panel they said you couldn't change a weapons abilities.
Which one is it?
They never said it would change your abilities, it might do something like increase the length of the weapon so it's able to hit more enemies or increase damage from certain types of attacks.
Has this been officially confirmed? It seems SOE is promoting "freedom to play your way" yet force you to use specific weapons for skills? I don't mind 8 skills but being forced to use a certain weapon is what broke GW2 for me, that and the lack of trinity and the zerg fest that followed.
Would be nice if there is a way around this. I enjoy playing a necromancer with a staff and don't like the idea of being forced to use a dagger just to get the "best" spells. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?
I think you have it confused, no offence.
I think your "casting", fireball lighting blah blah, will be the Class skills, they talked about. Then you have weapon skills, shield bash with a shield, chop of death with an axe, what nots. But I don't think you will get to shield bash with a dagger, or should ever have been able to.
Here is to hoping that it doesn't come down to the dagger having the "best" skills, or any other class or weapon.
Yes don't you love how wonderfully restrictive and shallow this could end up? It could result in one of two possibilities. One being that a certain weapon choice leads to a specific path of progression, meaning that you're still gaining new skills and abilities making combat interesting and more of an evolution in your tactics. The other would be more like GW2 where your choice results in the same skills ........the entire game.......the end......that's what you end up with period (we really really hope you like those few attacks, mix them up for great success!).
If it results in the latter then more power to everyone who loves that kind of thing. If you think about it, that's the kind of character who never gets more powerful even if you spend years on him. It's like saying "HI! Thanks for creating me! I'm really strong and now I'm done with my training. Lets go on adventures and grow together.....well, you can grow along side me because I'm done." So freaking sad.
That is what I am worried about..
If there are many skills for each weapon that I can chose from / find / train then ok. But if it is like GW2 then it is terrible.
Comments
They did mention that this would be the case when they gave the example of the teleporting rogue that would be out of power after teleporting, so they would need a weapon that drains power to support that. Or something along those lines.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Don't really get how this is new, or something that was brought on by GW2. Weapon specific skills have always existed. In most cases not all skills were weapon specific, but generally there were several which required the use of a specific type of weapon.
You wouldnt equip a mace and be capable of using dagger based backstab & poison skills. You wouldnt equip a gun like a rifle and be capable of using longbow specific arrow volley & flaming arrow skills. You wouldnt equip a 2 hander sword and be able to use shield based skills.
Sure some skills were shared across multiple weapons, but thats the only thing that has changed. Now instead of shared skills with only a portion being weapon specific, your entire skillset is weapon specific. TBH though, it's not as big of a change as many make it out to be. Certain weapons generally always had specific effects (whether it be damage types or varying bonus effects like stuns, KDs, bleeds, etc) which were still activated through the use of shared skills.
All thats different now is the name & animation in most cases. There isnt anything actually "different" between many of the weapon specific skills. Your basic attacks with a sword still tend to generally do about the same thing as your mace skills, only the additional effects are linked directly to a skill rather than having a shared skill with a proc based on weapon type.
You're only tricking yourself into believing that its some drastic change from the old system.
Is true. Back when I played Everquest 2, my Inquisitor had some weapon specific skills. Had to have 2-handed hammer for 1. A hammer/shield for 2 of them. And one required holding a staff.
Yes don't you love how wonderfully restrictive and shallow this could end up? It could result in one of two possibilities. One being that a certain weapon choice leads to a specific path of progression, meaning that you're still gaining new skills and abilities making combat interesting and more of an evolution in your tactics. The other would be more like GW2 where your choice results in the same skills ........the entire game.......the end......that's what you end up with period (we really really hope you like those few attacks, mix them up for great success!).
If it results in the latter then more power to everyone who loves that kind of thing. If you think about it, that's the kind of character who never gets more powerful even if you spend years on him. It's like saying "HI! Thanks for creating me! I'm really strong and now I'm done with my training. Lets go on adventures and grow together.....well, you can grow along side me because I'm done." So freaking sad.
only makes sense that a staff and a scepter should have different skills. Same for a greats word and a dagger. GW2 does it that way and it is great, I have a invisible bag that I keep different weapons and armor in and change them out for soloing, dungeons, zerg grouping etc.
The system really allows for a lot of flexibility in your character. You are out soloing and set up for DD and your guild needs a tan. Just swap weapons and, armor if you want, and poof you can tank. 30 seconds and you can change your characters stats and abilities all around.
I love it
I miss DAoC
I couldnt disagree more. You truely dont wield a axe, sword, dagger, blunts the same way, thats not even mention the subcatagories,
Its beyone shallow that a game doesnt make a difference. Certainly isnt realistic.
I totally agree. Like i said in my post it gives you a great deal of flexibility in playstyle
I miss DAoC
I understand that there would be differing play style that varies from weapon to weapon, that's not the whole of the idea I was trying to get across. Will there be a progression of skills beyond your initial abilities based on your weapon choice? Or will you be stuck with the same abilities you receive upon equipping said weapon?
It makes more than the fair amount of sense that the skills would be different based on what you're holding in your hand but will there be any evolution/progression at all when it comes to weapon skills? That is what I'm trying to ask.
First of all, I will promise you with 100% certainty, that there will be a necromancer class at launch. It is one of the obvious trademark fantasy classes, and if it's not in, SOE has failed as gaming developers. If for some reason it isn't in, it will be shortly after launch, as the continue to add new classes to the game.
I truly believe that there will be enough classes, where you can find the weapon set/armor type combination that you are looking for, with the class ability categories that fit your character style preference. I mean, there will be, at least should be, over 160 unique character abilities to choose from. They should create enough differing classes so almost any logical combination of weapons and armor can be used. I think some people are just getting really paranoid, and they aren't giving enough credit to the designers.
I'd suggest to give it some time. Let some class info come out, and then start freaking out if all of your questions aren't answered/
I think their setup is supposed to simulate the idea of leveling up. Each new class that you will obtain will make you think. Should you change to a new weapon? Should you alter your build based on a new item with a nice class passive? Should I use any of these four new class abilities that I just got? I really think it will make people tinker and be really creative in their builds.
I can see it. But, I've been playing games with a flexible system like this for years and years. It's going to be very flexible. In fact, I think most people are going to be quickly overwhelmed with the amount of choice you'll have over how your character plays.
A EQN class is really more like archetype + weapon = "class". Although each class is limited to 2 weapon types (confirmed through Darrin tweet), how do we know that each "sword" or "axe" is going to have the same abilities on them. Remember weapons are not just stat boosters, they have actual meaning to the game play.
So Warrior can use Mace/Shield and a 2H sword. But the abilities on different 2H swords is unknown. So maybe this 2H sword has a +teleport speed, while another 2H sword has +damage. These are not limiting factors, they open up some great opportunities.
Weapon abilities are directly tied to your "primary" class. Meaning if I choose to be a Rogue, then all of my character ability slots come from being a Rogue, so I can have 2 offensive slots and 2 utility slots. My weapon choices might be bow and dagger (I've not confirmed what Rogue weapons are yet). I choose to go with Bow. I want some type of caster bow rogue, so I look up an offensive ability from my unlock classes. Oh here is a nice wizard spell I like, and then I slot that into 1 of my character offensive slots. My 4 weapon abilities will come from my bow, but the actual bow I equip may have +max range, or +speed.
I think skills bound to weapons make sense.
I mean you wouldn't use a sword the same way you'd use a spear, or a mace, all very different uses.
I just hope, and this is where Guild Wars 2 failed miserably, that you get NEW weapon skills and upgrades.
I don't want to get 4 weapon skills after playing for an hour, then NEVER GET ANY NEW ONES.
You should unlock more weapon skills as you play, and they don't have to be more "powerful" weapon skills either (if there's pvp this would imbalance it imo) but rather just more moves that offer more combat choices and situational effects.
This^ I feel this is one of the key areas GW2 fell flat for me. It would be nice if there was a skill pool for the weapons so I can pick abilities that fit my playstyle rather than having skills set and never able to be changed out. Swapping weapons in GW2 was fine and all but I hated that most weapons had 2-3 skills I liked and the other 2-3 I hated.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
It doesn't make sense for a caster at all. I like the way casters have traditionally worked in fantasy meaning their power comes from their spellbook or through their natural magic. A weapon with bound magic or enchanted with magic is what clickies in Everquest were for. Using a weapon to enhance your magic is what Focus effects in Everquest were for. That system is much better because you can associate specific special spells, that would normally be too hard or time consuming for the caster to cast, to individual weapons rather than a system that impies that the weapon is what is allowing you to achieve basic magic. Everquest Next's method makes the weapon seem special and not the spell caster. With this system if you want to cast Dagger spells you have to hold a dagger whether it is a rusty dagger or the Godly Dagger.
The only way this system makes sense for a caster is the way D&D 4.0 handles it--more supplementary effects as you channel your magic through it. That system wouldn't work in EQ Next though because they've invested half of the possible abilities into the system. So now we are likely stuck with, "Well, I have to hold a dagger if I want to cast fireball." Which is stupid.
I'll wait and see how it turns out though.
I don't really have a problem with skills being bound. Perhaps if they had an option to change appearance so the dagger could look like a staff if you wanted it to.
My problem is more the number of skills, or rather the percentage. If we had 20 selectable skills then I wouldn't mind 4, but with only 8 total slots I hate that 4 are tied to the weapon. Even 3 and 5 would be a large improvement, 2 and 6 would be better yet.
4 selectable skills is so limiting.
Asdar
During the opening reveal, he said when he was showing a picture of the different weapon types that a crafter could take part from one weapon and add it to another and this would change the weapon's appearance and abilities. Then during the class panel they said you couldn't change a weapons abilities.
Which one is it?
They never said it would change your abilities, it might do something like increase the length of the weapon so it's able to hit more enemies or increase damage from certain types of attacks.
Go to 6.25 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDq2a3zy_6M
He says you can mix and match pieces of a weapon with another weapon to change what it does.
...exactly, change what the weapon does not the abilities it gives. A sword is still a sword and gives you swordy abilities.
I think you have it confused, no offence.
I think your "casting", fireball lighting blah blah, will be the Class skills, they talked about. Then you have weapon skills, shield bash with a shield, chop of death with an axe, what nots. But I don't think you will get to shield bash with a dagger, or should ever have been able to.
Here is to hoping that it doesn't come down to the dagger having the "best" skills, or any other class or weapon.
That is what I am worried about..
If there are many skills for each weapon that I can chose from / find / train then ok. But if it is like GW2 then it is terrible.