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Wildstar: state of the beta 8/7/13 (from site)

NadiaNadia Canonsburg, PAPosts: 11,866Member Common

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/08/07/wildstar-discusses-the-state-of-the-beta-and-big-changes-to-come/

 

http://www.wildstar-online.com/en/news/wildstar_wednesday_state_of_the_beta.php

During each phase of beta, I try to make a big post to the testers about the feedback we've received and the things we were doing to address it. Based off the feedback we've seen in CBT2 and CBT3, we've decided to make some big changes to address the hottest topics we've been seeing, both from our beta testers as well as from outside sources (Yes, that means you, guy who comments on all the leaks). We wanted to take some time to communicate those changes to our wider community as well, to bring you into our plans a little earlier than usual to give an idea of how we react to feedback. There are two main areas we are working on updating:

There's no "player choice" involved in character progression

We've gone through two iterations of the Milestone system so far, but we never really spoke about it publicly because it wasn't in a place we were happy with. The first version allowed you to slot passive abilities alongside your active abilities, but were tied to hitting certain stat thresholds to unlock them. The second version removed the "slotting" and simply unlocked more milestones as your stats increased. Long story short, the system was purely gear-based, and players didn't like that their character had no progression on its own.

The Combat team has been working on a design of a new player progression system which allows you to customize your character's development as you level through the game. It's a little early to reveal any details about the new system, but the design of it has been completed and is moving on to the implementation stages.

Mob tagging and shared quest credit are not emblematic of a modern MMO.

Our solution to this hotly debated topic is by far the biggest change we've got planned, and it will fundamentally change the entire quest system in our game. After taking a step back and evaluating our current questing system, we've come up with a redesign that we believe addresses the concerns our players have expressed about the current quest/tagging system while remaining true to the vision of WildStar.

So, what is this change? Well, it comprises two major shifts in design:

  1. We are going to remove numerical quest objectives from the game (i.e. "Kill X Vinds" and "Collect X Sentient Veggies") and instead introduce a "quest completion bar." For kill quests, this bar will increment the player’s quest progress in relation to the amount of XP earned. For other quests, this bar will simply increment in set amounts for each completed interaction. This helps improve the system in the following ways:
    • By basing quest completion off XP gains, players can now choose to go after larger targets or smaller targets and earn quest progress appropriate for those choices. While killing harder things is slower, you will earn more quest progress for it. Those who prefer to fight easy things will kill faster, but progress more slowly for it.
    • This approach also helps groups stay on target for leveling progression. Even though groups will destroy creatures much faster, they will need to kill more in order for each player to earn the credit needed to complete the quest objective.
  2. By making this change, we have the opportunity to remove mob tagging, with regards to XP, from the game. XP gained per mob death will generally be based on the amount of damage a player contributes to that kill. This will still encourage players to group (where they would get full XP credit for the kill rather than a percentage), but also encourages players to help out a passerby in the open world in order to receive a comparable XP reward.
  3. One of the concerns that came up repeatedly from the beta community was how we would account for pure-support characters with this new system? The simple answer is that we expect players will group with other players, as they do in the current system. The longer answer is that by speccing your character to play a pure-support role, to the exclusion of all damage-dealing abilities, you are building a role meant to work in conjunction with other players. Grouping will remain the primary method for this. That being said, we are investigating ways to make grouping much easier to do. We want grouping to be useful enough to our players that they not avoid it out of convenience, so anything we introduce to simplify the act of grouping will build on that intention.
  4. Another concern that’s come up is the question of “in-group” rewards. That is, once your support character joins a group, he’ll still get less XP than his DPS brethren. This is not the case now, and it will not be the case in the future. XP distribution in a group is already based on the amount of damage the group does to a target, and is shared among all members of the group. Your class and spec do not matter.
  5. Our current plan is to have some minimum threshold of damage that needs to be done before credit can be earned. This is an example of a design challenge for us, because we have to find the right damage threshold, where we catch most of the people who are using cherry-tapping to take advantage of other players, while catching as few legitimate players as possible.

Wow, that was a lot to go through, and that's only a few of the major things we've been tracking from our beta test. As you can see, we're making some complex system changes to the game based on the huge amount of feedback we received during the first three phases of beta. Now the teams are going to be putting their heads down and work on implementing the changes we talked about above as well as lots of other changes in preparation for the next phase of beta, which will start later this year.

We want to extend a huge thanks to the beta testers from CBT1 through 3, as well as all the Stress Testers who've helped push our servers to their limit so far. We'll be starting back up later this year, and will make sure we both invite our old testers back to see the changes as well as bring new testers into the fold to get us some great new first impressions. We'll be back before you know it!

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Comments

  • MondoA2JMondoA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 258Member

    Feel like everything is moving on a snails back.

    So incredibly slow!! ugh!

    I could be just impatient mind you and want to play the game. ;)

    MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  • ZebladeZeblade Colorado Springs, COPosts: 926Member
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 
  • DaakenDaaken New York, NYPosts: 158Member
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    Starting to think this is 1999 all over again.  EQN is EQ1, Wildstar is Asheron's Call and ESO is well I don't know what ESO is in this situation lol.

    Random Forum Poster: I want an MMO that is different, original and fun.

    Me: So you want something like EQN

    Them: Nah dude, I want a Holy Trinity, Tab Target combat, Instanced Raiding, and Rigid classes.

    Me: Double Facepalm.

  • MondoA2JMondoA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 258Member
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    I've noticed this as well and just seems like all the news related to this game is coming out so damn slowly.

    Also probably being close to the only last Themepark before the return of the sandbox is probably affecting the hype on this game. They need to get the game together fast before they fall on their faces due to the new generation of MMOs all having sandbox elements.

    So far Wildstar only claim to sandbox is housing....kinda.

    Still excited about the game though. Looks fun.

    MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon

    Good lord, I wasn't following it closely, but I can't believe they were going to have mob tagging. Talk about a system that should be dead and buried, it's awful. I like that they've gone with the progress bar + xp for participation.

    Well, we'll see. ESO and Wildstar must be coming out close to each other if they keep delaying. In that case I'll have to go with ESO and Wildstar will probably have lost its chance.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaPosts: 8,436Member Uncommon

    There is too much to comment on so i will only pick one a popular topic of Questing.

    I do like their idea,that is a tough chore to please me,but only how they propose to fix it or make it better.

    In saying that i still do not like that people designing these games copy rather than use common sense.A Quest should NOTG yield xp,that is the biggest mistake all the devs are doing.A quest should be an ends to a mean,it has purpose,xp should be tied to a learning process tied into what ever the xp is garnered for.

    Example,if you are trying to be a more experienced Warrior,you do that through Warrior actions,not by staring at some questing xp bar.

    However ,i do like that they put some thought into the same mistake,at least it is a better idea than the simple go fetch 10 of this and we give you free xp.This is the kind of thinking i like to see devs do,just need to lose the ANCIENT old copy idea of xp for questing,FFXI is the only game that got that right.Even worse is when games start handing Warrior xp for locating a new area on a map lol.

    I picked this point because it also ties into them mentioning player progression outside the normal.There should be an array of skills in weaponry and armor use,then you can go into depth in each category using elemental properties and types of weapon and gear.


    Samoan Diamond

  • MondoA2JMondoA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 258Member
    Originally posted by Wizardry

    There is too much to comment on so i will only pick one a popular topic of Questing.

    I do like their idea,that is a tough chore to please me,but only how they propose to fix it or make it better.

    In saying that i still do not like that people designing these games copy rather than use common sense.A Quest should NOTG yield xp,that is the biggest mistake all the devs are doing.A quest should be an ends to a mean,it has purpose,xp should be tied to a learning process tied into what ever the xp is garnered for.

    Example,if you are trying to be a more experienced Warrior,you do that through Warrior actions,not by staring at some questing xp bar.

    However ,i do like that they put some thought into the same mistake,at least it is a better idea than the simple go fetch 10 of this and we give you free xp.This is the kind of thinking i like to see devs do,just need to lose the ANCIENT old copy idea of xp for questing,FFXI is the only game that got that right.Even worse is when games start handing Warrior xp for locating a new area on a map lol.

    I picked this point because it also ties into them mentioning player progression outside the normal.There should be an array of skills in weaponry and armor use,then you can go into depth in each category using elemental properties and types of weapon and gear.

    I think I see what your saying here but the only issue with that is balance.

    A warrior can do alot more things to gain XP in a mmo then lets say a explorer can. So now we have to boost the amount of XP a explorer gets to keep up with the warrior otherwise it wil take too long for the explorer to level or atleast keep up with the warrior.

    Then you have people whining and complaining and the system needs to be tweaked and turned to be balanced for Crafters, Lore hounds, etc.

    Atleast, I think that's what your saying.

    MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    Because everyone is jumping on the EQN hypetrain.  Even before EQN unveiling there were only a few threads at most talking bout WS.

  • MindTriggerMindTrigger La Quinta, CAPosts: 2,596Member
    Originally posted by MondoA2J
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    I've noticed this as well and just seems like all the news related to this game is coming out so damn slowly.

    Also probably being close to the only last Themepark before the return of the sandbox is probably affecting the hype on this game. They need to get the game together fast before they fall on their faces due to the new generation of MMOs all having sandbox elements.

    So far Wildstar only claim to sandbox is housing....kinda.

    Still excited about the game though. Looks fun.

    Well, the game is in beta, so there won't be many changes to the game at this stage. They jumped the gun there and put out a bunch of information early on, now there's a long wait until release.

    A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    I'm happy that some of my feedback became reality, yay :-) lol. I like what they are doing now with the Kill X quests and the quest completion bar. That helps. Good post.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 877Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rusque

    Good lord, I wasn't following it closely, but I can't believe they were going to have mob tagging. Talk about a system that should be dead and buried, it's awful. I like that they've gone with the progress bar + xp for participation.

    Well, we'll see. ESO and Wildstar must be coming out close to each other if they keep delaying. In that case I'll have to go with ESO and Wildstar will probably have lost its chance.

    I know...right?

     

    How can mob tagging still exist in games?      It's just ridiculous to expect players to form a community at the same time as literally fighting over who can get the first hit on kill for credit.   That kind of stuff sucked in games 8+ years ago when it was new, it's old and nearly dead now.  Get with the GW2 and have personal loot, XP, Karma from mobs, and even personal nods for gathered materials for crafting.


  • GormogonGormogon Waukegan, ILPosts: 188Member Uncommon

    After reading the title I was already thinking about how annoying it was that so much of their "news" is about their latest media appearance or other people playing the game (as if those things are supposed to excite us)...

     

    ...  but I'm glad to see that the beta testers have been providing meaningful feedback that is being listened to.  These both seem like things I also would have been pushing for.

  • YalexyYalexy BerlinPosts: 1,053Member Uncommon

    Get rid of the XP for quests alltogether and only have XP for killing mobs based on damage done - groups evenly share the XP for killing a mob. This way we could decide ourselves, if we want to do any quests or if we're only interested in endgame-raiding as most quests will be probably pissboring anyways.

    Playing through the main-storyline once to get some background might be of interest, if it's any good, but if I'm interestzed in playing through a stroy then I'm playing a single-player RPG where there's noone disrupting me or breaking the immersion.

  • LugorsLugors colorado springs, COPosts: 180Member Common
    Originally posted by MondoA2J
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    I've noticed this as well and just seems like all the news related to this game is coming out so damn slowly.

    Also probably being close to the only last Themepark before the return of the sandbox is probably affecting the hype on this game. They need to get the game together fast before they fall on their faces due to the new generation of MMOs all having sandbox elements.

    So far Wildstar only claim to sandbox is housing....kinda.

    Still excited about the game though. Looks fun.

     

    Not true.  Sandbox games are very much a niche concept that doesn't have the broad appeal of a "theme park."  While vocal, sandbox fans don't have the numbers to support a AAA MMO.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,516Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Daaken
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    Starting to think this is 1999 all over again.  EQN is EQ1, Wildstar is Asheron's Call and ESO is well I don't know what ESO is in this situation lol.

    actually it feels like Wildstar is EQ1, EQN seems like UO, and ESO is the Asheron's Call

    to me

     

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by MondoA2J
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    I've noticed this as well and just seems like all the news related to this game is coming out so damn slowly.

    Also probably being close to the only last Themepark before the return of the sandbox is probably affecting the hype on this game. They need to get the game together fast before they fall on their faces due to the new generation of MMOs all having sandbox elements.

    So far Wildstar only claim to sandbox is housing....kinda.

    Still excited about the game though. Looks fun.

    [mod edit]

    The pure sandbox genre has one foot and the grave, and the other on wet grass. 

    The best features of the sandbox genre are being incorporated into themepark MMOs, and the rest is being left to rot.

     

    EQNext is the absolute last hope for that genre!  Even still, it is but one game trying to fill that niche market within the MMO community.

    It looks interesting, but I don't see people sticking around tbh.

     

    Sandbox games are like real life national forest.  You can do about whatever you want for the most part.

    Themepark MMOs are like an amusement park, like Disney land.

     

    A few people enjoy camping, but Disney land gets more traffic in a day, then your average national forest gets in a year.

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    Originally posted by Daaken
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    Starting to think this is 1999 all over again.  EQN is EQ1, Wildstar is Asheron's Call and ESO is well I don't know what ESO is in this situation lol.

    actually it feels like Wildstar is EQ1, EQN seems like UO, and ESO is the Asheron's Call

    to me

     

    ESO is AC? really? I thought ESO was Dark age of camelot. 

    Wow, i gotta check these 2 game out there. EQN and ESO

    My problem with ESO is the fact that pvp will be limited, but it's too soon to tell how bad or good it will be.

    C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    Originally posted by Daaken
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    Starting to think this is 1999 all over again.  EQN is EQ1, Wildstar is Asheron's Call and ESO is well I don't know what ESO is in this situation lol.

    actually it feels like Wildstar is EQ1, EQN seems like UO, and ESO is the Asheron's Call

    to me

     

    ESO is AC? really? I thought ESO was Dark age of camelot. 

    Wow, i gotta check these 2 game out there. EQN and ESO

    My problem with ESO is the fact that pvp will be limited, but it's too soon to tell how bad or good it will be.

    The 3 faction pvp might be interesting for awhile, but I see it getting old fast. 

    I really wish they would reconsider the dungeons and arena.

     

    PvP in WS on the other hand sounds absolutely epic!

  • MondoA2JMondoA2J Henderson, NVPosts: 258Member
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69

    I am sorry, but are you high? 

    The pure sandbox genre has one foot and the grave, and the other on wet grass. 

    The best features of the sandbox genre are being incorporated into themepark MMOs, and the rest is being left to rot.

    EQNext is the absolute last hope for that genre!  Even still, it is but one game trying to fill that niche market within the MMO community.

    It looks interesting, but I don't see people sticking around tbh.

    Sandbox games are like real life national forest.  You can do about whatever you want for the most part.

    Themepark MMOs are like an amusement park, like Disney land.

    A few people enjoy camping, but Disney land gets more traffic in a day, then your average national forest gets in a year.

    Riiiiiigghhhtt. Cause themepark MMO's are doing just fine.

    The entire MMO genre isn't choking on its own vomit and dying slowly.

    Even the mightiest of themeparks your "Disneyland" AKA World of Warcraft is losing subscribers faster then you can count.

    I must be high cause no one has reported how the entire genre is in terrible danger due to inflated budgets and locusts mentality of players. You know why themeparks are incorporating sandbox elements? Cause people are realizing how hollow of an experience it is! So yes obviously sandbox genre is a foot from death. Odd that they would pick at the bones like animals trying to get anything they could from it.... hmm....catch the sarcasm? 

    Honestly, look at the MMO community and ask any player if they are happy with how things are right now. I bet 70% will say no.

    Oh and using your analogy. Disneyland lets you ride what they made. In my sandbox...I made the damn ride, attractions, gift shops and Mickey!

    Oh also not once did I utter "Pure sandbox."  Where did you get that from?

    Merely was pointing out that Wildstar is WAY more themepark then anything else. If they are not careful due to SHIFTING trends they may fall flat on their face when the gate opens and no one is interested in themeparks anymore.

    Again though. I am fan of Wildstar and I am looking forward to this MMO.

    If you can't recognize the growing number of unsatisfied players,  the industry shifting and trying not to die a horrible death then maybe your high? :)

    MMORPG Gamers/Developers need a reality check!

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by MondoA2J
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69

    I am sorry, but are you high? 

    The pure sandbox genre has one foot and the grave, and the other on wet grass. 

    The best features of the sandbox genre are being incorporated into themepark MMOs, and the rest is being left to rot.

    EQNext is the absolute last hope for that genre!  Even still, it is but one game trying to fill that niche market within the MMO community.

    It looks interesting, but I don't see people sticking around tbh.

    Sandbox games are like real life national forest.  You can do about whatever you want for the most part.

    Themepark MMOs are like an amusement park, like Disney land.

    A few people enjoy camping, but Disney land gets more traffic in a day, then your average national forest gets in a year.

    Riiiiiigghhhtt. Cause themepark MMO's are doing just fine.

    The entire MMO genre isn't choking on its own vomit and dying slowly.

    Even the mightiest of themeparks your "Disneyland" AKA World of Warcraft is losing subscribers faster then you can count.

    I must be high cause no one has reported how the entire genre is in terrible danger due to inflated budgets and locusts mentality of players. You know why themeparks are incorporating sandbox elements? Cause people are realizing how hollow of an experience it is! So yes obviously sandbox genre is a foot from death. Odd that they would pick at the bones like animals trying to get anything they could from it.... hmm....catch the sarcasm? 

    Honestly, look at the MMO community and ask any player if they are happy with how things are right now. I bet 70% will say no.

    Oh and using your analogy. Disneyland lets you ride what they made. In my sandbox...I made the damn ride, attractions, gift shops and Mickey!

    Oh also not once did I utter "Pure sandbox."  Where did you get that from?

    Merely was pointing out that Wildstar is WAY more themepark then anything else. If they are not careful due to SHIFTING trends they may fall flat on their face when the gate opens and no one is interested in themeparks anymore.

    Again though. I am fan of Wildstar and I am looking forward to this MMO.

    If you can't recognize the growing number of unsatisfied players,  the industry shifting and trying not to die a horrible death then maybe your high? :)

     

    WoW might be losing more subs than you can count here recently, but that trend will change when the next xpac comes out.   Also, despite losing subs it still has over 15 times more subs than the best sandbox on the market!  And nfinitely more than the second best, because there is no second best.

    Thinking that pure sandbox games are on the return is a mere pipe dream!

     

    I am referring to a pure sandbox as something like EQnext.  That is a pure sandbox!  It is aiming for the sandbox niche community within the mmo marketplace.  The community has vastly expanded since the days of UO.  The sandbox community is merely a niche within that huge marketplace nowadays.

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69
    Originally posted by MondoA2J
    Originally posted by Zeblade
    Wow forgot all about this game. No one talks about it. 

    I've noticed this as well and just seems like all the news related to this game is coming out so damn slowly.

    Also probably being close to the only last Themepark before the return of the sandbox is probably affecting the hype on this game. They need to get the game together fast before they fall on their faces due to the new generation of MMOs all having sandbox elements.

    So far Wildstar only claim to sandbox is housing....kinda.

    Still excited about the game though. Looks fun.

    I am sorry, but are you high? 

    Why are you attacking people that don't agree with you. You just stated in the ESO forums you don't like that.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,615Member Uncommon
    The phrase "We'll be back soon!" is the first signs of vaporware 

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • EzbeeEzbee BristolPosts: 31Member
    Originally posted by emperorwings
    The phrase "We'll be back soon!" is the first signs of vaporware 

    yep, a developer taking time to develop based off of information gotten in their betas is producing vaporware.

  • fiontarfiontar Dana, MAPosts: 3,719Member

    Very mixed feelings after reading the beta update.

    On the plus side, glad to see they are listening to testers and the community and making changes accordingly.

    On the minus side, that they needed the community to tell them these things is a bad sign, because these things should have been obvious to any half awake MMO designer in 2013.

    Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
    image

  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member
    Originally posted by fiontar

    Very mixed feelings after reading the beta update.

    On the plus side, glad to see they are listening to testers and the community and making changes accordingly.

    On the minus side, that they needed the community to tell them these things is a bad sign, because these things should have been obvious to any half awake MMO designer in 2013.

    Minor issues dude, very minor.

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