There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells.
That’s right folks, EQN is bringing back the glory of exploration for purpose in that it’s going to actually ask you to, well, you know explore the world to unlock things. In the example Dave gave us, an adventurer comes upon a farmer who’s being besieged by legions of orcs. He begs you for help. Or, if you prefer, you can help the orcs take control of the farm and do away with the farmer. If you help the poor guy out, maybe you’ll find out he’s actually a hedge Wizard and will teach you the art of magic.
Or perhaps you help out the orcs instead (because orcs are awesome, that’s why) and they’re so impressed with your combat prowess that they’ll teach you how to become a mighty warrior. There won’t be some golden exclamation point over the farmer’s head, and it won’t be clear from the get go how this whole experience would go down or what your rewards would be. And what’s more is that once you do it, it won’t be there for the next person.
That’s not to say that others couldn’t learn wizardry or the art of war, but rather this will be EQN’s way of combating guides that lay out exactly how to find and do everything in the game. Dave and his team want to make sure that the sense of wonder, exploration, and accomplishment are put back into the MMORPG.
Think of it as collecting skills / equipment like a trading card games.
I do like the sound of a world where you can choose good/evil/neutral deeds that change character, but was wondering if these skills improve on use like in UO.
Originally posted by Tygranir Originally posted by EQAbnerOriginally posted by dandurinThey stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better". Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor. A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
that is exactly what GW2 players told me before launch and i got bored pretty fast.
if i wanted to play a pointless game just for fun i wouldn't play an RPG, i play RPG's to build my character over time and make them stronger.
I'm not really on board with this...if it was more like UO maybe. Requiring a set of gear to advance a "tier" ? That just sounds like a different type of time sink.
The way the dev explained it, it seems more like the Warrior got a quest from his class trainer to find an armor set, before he could undertake the next training session. They sound like class challenges. We also have an old example of a Druid having to find a secret glade to pray to get a new spell (or something like that).
People seem to equate "Sandbox" with "no progression" and I dont know why lol.
It seems like those people never played UO or SWG (probably the two most succesful/ relatable sandbox games, along with EVE)
UO had a SKILL system that you *had* to progress in order to do things, ontop of that they had a gear treadmill that you *had* to do to see content.
Be a blacksmith : Skill progression/ no combat
Be a warrior : skill progression/gear progression
Mage : same..etc etc etc
The sandbox aspect came from the mix and match of different skills and such (this is what made UO and SWG so great)
So to sum it up, at least for me :
Crafting is viable as the main goal of a character
Mix and match "create-a-class" mechanics
Exploration
Housing (free roam housing, not instanced shit that's not very customizable)
Multiple ways to enjoy the game, all of which are valid
------
To me that's a sandbox game, and a very good one. Lack of skill/level progression doesn't make a game a sandbox, its a strange concept and I'm very confused as to how they're going to make a No stat-gear, no-level game work.
We'll see, but I'm assuming they'll cave just like GW2 did.
I think they replaced grinding and xp with regular and public quests.
They're throwing a lot of things overboard:
-trinity
-aggro
-grinding
-progression
But the issue so far for me is that they haven't shown what they are replacing it with and seem to be in a "we're trying to figure out what to do now" stage.
We really have seen 0 gameplay so far outside of those few seconds where that warrior was spinning around.
Originally posted by dandurinThey stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better". Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor. A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)
Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
that is exactly what GW2 players told me before launch and i got bored pretty fast.
if i wanted to play a pointless game just for fun i wouldn't play an RPG, i play RPG's to build my character over time and make them stronger.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to do instead being told where to go with restrictions.
Originally posted by Victor_Krugermy character over time and make them stronger.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to instead being told where to go with restrictions.
As a DnD alum, I do like the idea of bringing a pnp rpg system to the world and never really liked the min/max approach. The thing will be how well they implement it. I want to group up to explore/fight and not zerg. Other games with the DE/public quests, it seems like no one wanted or needed to group to win through the encounters. I know some people don't like forced grouping, but it might be the only way to get people to group. If a high % of players don't choose to group, it will be much harder for others to get a group. And if the combat is action and without dependency on other classes (trinity), many won't group, leaving it hard to find group. But I am excited about the opportunity to be on the evil mobs side in a conflict.
Originally posted by Victor_Krugermy character over time and make them stronger.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to instead being told where to go with restrictions.
As a DnD alum, I do like the idea of bringing a pnp rpg system to the world and never really liked the min/max approach. The thing will be how well they implement it. I want to group up to explore/fight and not zerg. Other games with the DE/public quests, it seems like no one wanted or needed to group to win through the encounters. I know some people don't like forced grouping, but it might be the only way to get people to group. If a high % of players don't choose to group, it will be much harder for others to get a group. And if the combat is action and without dependency on other classes (trinity), many won't group, leaving it hard to find group. But I am excited about the opportunity to be on the evil mobs side in a conflict.
Oh..there will be plenty of min/maxing. Go listen to the Class Panel. The min/maxing it seems will just come with the combination of classes and finding that perfect combo + items (they mentioned items will directly effect skills, like lowering costs, increasing damage of skills etc)
They threw around comparisons to League of Legends a lot and Magic the Gathering.
It sounds like gear progression and skill progression are what they hinted at in the panels in place of a leveling system. Not much was said on the skill progression, so I don't know anything specific.
Originally posted by Victor_Krugermy character over time and make them stronger.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to instead being told where to go with restrictions.
As a DnD alum, I do like the idea of bringing a pnp rpg system to the world and never really liked the min/max approach. The thing will be how well they implement it. I want to group up to explore/fight and not zerg. Other games with the DE/public quests, it seems like no one wanted or needed to group to win through the encounters. I know some people don't like forced grouping, but it might be the only way to get people to group. If a high % of players don't choose to group, it will be much harder for others to get a group. And if the combat is action and without dependency on other classes (trinity), many won't group, leaving it hard to find group. But I am excited about the opportunity to be on the evil mobs side in a conflict.
Oh..there will be plenty of min/maxing. Go listen to the Class Panel. The min/maxing it seems will just come with the combination of classes and finding that perfect combo + items (they mentioned items will directly effect skills, like lowering costs, increasing damage of skills etc)
They threw around comparisons to League of Legends a lot and Magic the Gathering.
I'm hoping the content will be so that you don't have to min/max to be successful. I hope they don't have to make it easier to accomplish this. A balanced group, that covers the necessary "roles" should be able to work, if they play well. I know people will min/max, but hoping any combo of class skills, if played well, can be viable.
Edit: i just noticed how many times I said "I hope". Sigh, tired of boring games. I just want one to go the extra mile and make things interesting again. If this game is too easy, I can't see it holding my interest. My main fear.
I find it hard to believe after all these posts nobody's mentioned the most important thing which goes to the core of your question:
What EQN has is a newer HORIZONTAL progression system. This is the opposite of the more traditional VERTICAL progression system you're used to.
Basically what it boils down to is this:
- In a horizontal progression system, you progress your character by unlocking more abilities and expanding your gear properties. Since there is no XP and no leveling, the playing field is by default even between all players. Thus skill ends up being supremely important and the major quality that differentiates players.
- In a vertical progression system, you progress your character by gaining levels and collecting gear. The main problems associated with this are (1) You have to grind to level up or gain gear; (2) Higher-level players are way more powerful than lower-level players.
Please read these to find out exactly the difference:
If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?
I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).
Think of it like this. You start the game at lvl 50 - capped. Now go raid and pluder! Explore!
I am glad they've done away with leveling.. that mechanic in itself is a burden. I capped one toon in SWTOR. I would have loved to play all the other classes just to see the class stories - but I did not want to grind through 50 levels just to see the good stuff.
They are give us the good stuff up front. The land will be ours for the taking. We wont have to be weak for days and weeks on end.. levels that many just blow by anyway.
If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?
I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).
You get better by engaging in better challenges.
Levelng up a character may make the character better compared to a lower level character, but does it really make the player better?
With this system you are invited to become a better player, and as a reward you have more options opening to you to further customize your character according to your emergent play style which in turn permit you to become an even better player and engage in more challenging adventure.
This is actually a feature I am looking forward to with EQN.
You will be playing a skill based game not a gear based game ... to get better you actually have to improve your skills not just farm gear
When you say skills I assume you mean in-game character skill rather than human playing abilities. That is essentially leveling a character to be better and at less of a disadvantage than someone who is new.
I am not complaining about anything. I just want to understand.
No I'm meaning your actual human playing abilities more knowledge more practice more skills ...just like playing a sport
Thus skill ends up being supremely important and the major quality that differentiates players.
this is an assumption we don't know how combat works yet, we don't know the levels of power between class tiers we don't know how balance is and we don't know how challenging the game is. not saying you will be wrong simply pointing out that this isn't a definition of horizontal progression or eq next in fact player skill being in anyway related to horizontal or vertical progression is off.
If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?
I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).
Build a world, live in that world, create memories that'll last a lifetime, have fun, collect phat lewts, raid epic bosses, explore anywhere, be known for being the most ruthless Shadow Knight/Tempest on my server, Kill People I think don't deserve to breathe the same air as me.
Those are just some of the goals for me when the game launches.
I second reaching those noble goals good Daaken - tho I fear we are on opposite ends of the Knight's virtues. Rest assured I plan to crush underfoot evil where it lives.. and turn it back to hell from whence it came.
Well said, good knight. I will aspire to make a hefty profit off both your goals and retire to my seaside palace with the best of wine, treasure and decadent delights. I hope this will be possible in game.
They stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better".
Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor.
A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I would love a game where new players can run around with veterans!!! I hope this is true.
Guild Wars 2 allow that, it's nothing new. In fact I was PvPing at level 5, although not effectively, I was able to gain most of my levels in GW2 in world PvP.
- In a vertical progression system, you progress your character by gaining levels and collecting gear. The main problems associated with this are (1) You have to grind to level up or gain gear; (2) Higher-level players are way more powerful than lower-level players.
To expand upon these valid points you also avoid a lot more issues that is plaguing current MMO's today:
1) Empty lower leveling zones.
2) Content gets outdated.
3) Stat gear treadmill in the end game.
4) Needing to PL your friend that just joined the game.
5) You can destroy a lower level zone/dungeon/raid at max level.
6) PvP is always out of balance because players use different gear.
Horizontal progression seems to support a healthier MMO system and one that anyone can pick up from day one and get into the action. The Tier system will provide some separation in power since you have more abilities to choose from and higher tier gear will make those abilities cost less energy or mana. This will make your abilities more efficient and providing more combinations to you vs someone who just got into the game. Keeping you close, but still more powerful in different regards.
Originally posted by dandurinThey stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better". Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor. A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)
Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
that is exactly what GW2 players told me before launch and i got bored pretty fast.
if i wanted to play a pointless game just for fun i wouldn't play an RPG, i play RPG's to build my character over time and make them stronger.
You do build your character over time in EQN just not through experience points, instead through exploring freely which is better than jumping from quest hub to quest hub in a linear fashion.
Originally posted by zymurgeist Originally posted by EQAbnerOriginally posted by TygranirOriginally posted by EQAbnerOriginally posted by dandurinThey stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better". Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor. A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.Please don't troll me. I just want to understand. This is foreign to me.In my games now, my main goal is to level up and get better gear. This in turn also allows me to see new sights as well. He's not trolling you. Think of it this way. If you go to a movie or museum are you any better at anything that before you did? You should be entertained though. Maybe learned a thing or two. Some games are about entertainment not virtual advancement. Not that I believe EQN is anything but the standard progression in a new wrapper.
RPG's are about virtual advancement, always have been. you play them to build your character in some way over time, at least i do.
it can be skill based, but just because its skill based does not mean you should get more powerful with the more skills you learn or the better you get at using a certain skill.
i am pretty sure they are doing it this way because it will be easier to balance.
but if i don't feel like my character is getting stronger or better in what he is doing, that will not be fun for long.
same thing happened in GW2 for me and i knew that it would.
Originally posted by dandurinThey stress the point that tiers are not levels and you don't actually "get better". Tiers unlock ability choices, ie customization options, they don't power up your hit points, DPS, or armor. A brand new player can adventure with a veteran and not be at a disadvantage.
I just don't get it. I can play for years and be no better than someone who started yesterday? This makes no sense to me. What exactly is the point of playing? What is the goal for your character? Why work your butt off if the guy that started this morning is no different? (not at a disadvantage)
Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
that is exactly what GW2 players told me before launch and i got bored pretty fast.if i wanted to play a pointless game just for fun i wouldn't play an RPG, i play RPG's to build my character over time and make them stronger.
You do build your character over time in EQN just not through experience points, instead through exploring freely which is better than jumping from quest hub to quest hub in a linear fashion.
does your character get stronger? or do you just get more classes to choose from and different gear?
There are no levels in EQN, all of your progression will come from exploring the world, unlocking classes and experimenting with weapons and spells.
That’s right folks, EQN is bringing back the glory of exploration for purpose in that it’s going to actually ask you to, well, you know explore the world to unlock things. In the example Dave gave us, an adventurer comes upon a farmer who’s being besieged by legions of orcs. He begs you for help. Or, if you prefer, you can help the orcs take control of the farm and do away with the farmer. If you help the poor guy out, maybe you’ll find out he’s actually a hedge Wizard and will teach you the art of magic.
Or perhaps you help out the orcs instead (because orcs are awesome, that’s why) and they’re so impressed with your combat prowess that they’ll teach you how to become a mighty warrior. There won’t be some golden exclamation point over the farmer’s head, and it won’t be clear from the get go how this whole experience would go down or what your rewards would be. And what’s more is that once you do it, it won’t be there for the next person.
That’s not to say that others couldn’t learn wizardry or the art of war, but rather this will be EQN’s way of combating guides that lay out exactly how to find and do everything in the game. Dave and his team want to make sure that the sense of wonder, exploration, and accomplishment are put back into the MMORPG.
Think of it as collecting skills / equipment like a trading card games.
I do like the sound of a world where you can choose good/evil/neutral deeds that change character, but was wondering if these skills improve on use like in UO.
It was mentioned that 1 point of strength would be a great achievement, and that INT could be just as important to a warrior as it is a mage; all depends on play style. Also because every perceived deed is recorded, your actions matter. Somewhere I read that it might not be possible to be an SK and Paladin at the same time because your actions as an SK would be frowned upon by those NPCs that would teach you your Paladin class. So although we have access to all classes, we might not be able to play all classes at the same time.
@OP - think of the 4 character abilities as your goal to start with, play the game and go from there. The 4 class abilities are locked to what "class" you are at the moment, but your 4 character abilities can be mixed and matched based on other classes you have unlocked.
You do build your character over time in EQN just not through experience points, instead through exploring freely which is better than jumping from quest hub to quest hub in a linear fashion.
does your character get stronger? or do you just get more classes to choose from and different gear?
The latter. You do "grind XP", but that only gets you "tiers" which open new ability choices. Choices that are not necessarily universally better than your previous choices but give you the flexibility to come up with superior build combinations for a particular situation.
Unfortunately, they said in the Q&A session that if you and a friend are adventuring in a tier 3 area, "you'd better be tier 3". Which tells me they really arean't sure what they are doing.
If there are no levels then what is the goal? Just making stuff? There has to be something. Do you just get "better" by getting better equipment?
I am not complaining. I just want to understand how this model works. I fully intend to play and be a paid subscriber if there are any benefits in doing so (and they offer it).
Maybe the point is what you do?
So, playing the economy, keeping wandering tribes of orcs out of farmers' fields, growing your guild and possibly pvp'ing/creating and empire, tackling larger pve encounters because they "needed a killin'" and gathering mats and stuff from these kills to sell, create better equipment, sell that, etc.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Comments
I do like the sound of a world where you can choose good/evil/neutral deeds that change character, but was wondering if these skills improve on use like in UO.
Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
that is exactly what GW2 players told me before launch and i got bored pretty fast.
if i wanted to play a pointless game just for fun i wouldn't play an RPG, i play RPG's to build my character over time and make them stronger.
The way the dev explained it, it seems more like the Warrior got a quest from his class trainer to find an armor set, before he could undertake the next training session. They sound like class challenges. We also have an old example of a Druid having to find a secret glade to pray to get a new spell (or something like that).
People seem to equate "Sandbox" with "no progression" and I dont know why lol.
It seems like those people never played UO or SWG (probably the two most succesful/ relatable sandbox games, along with EVE)
UO had a SKILL system that you *had* to progress in order to do things, ontop of that they had a gear treadmill that you *had* to do to see content.
Be a blacksmith : Skill progression/ no combat
Be a warrior : skill progression/gear progression
Mage : same..etc etc etc
The sandbox aspect came from the mix and match of different skills and such (this is what made UO and SWG so great)
So to sum it up, at least for me :
Crafting is viable as the main goal of a character
Mix and match "create-a-class" mechanics
Exploration
Housing (free roam housing, not instanced shit that's not very customizable)
Multiple ways to enjoy the game, all of which are valid
------
To me that's a sandbox game, and a very good one. Lack of skill/level progression doesn't make a game a sandbox, its a strange concept and I'm very confused as to how they're going to make a No stat-gear, no-level game work.
We'll see, but I'm assuming they'll cave just like GW2 did.
I think they replaced grinding and xp with regular and public quests.
They're throwing a lot of things overboard:
-trinity
-aggro
-grinding
-progression
But the issue so far for me is that they haven't shown what they are replacing it with and seem to be in a "we're trying to figure out what to do now" stage.
We really have seen 0 gameplay so far outside of those few seconds where that warrior was spinning around.
Guildwars 2 is a themepark game , Sandbox games are different and are not for everyone. There is progression in EQ Next with different level of Tiers that progress your character. I think it comes done too what role-playing games(including pen and paper) are too you, some like to power level and care more about stats, others care more about story and role-playing. Sandbox games are more about story and living in the world interacting with other players and creating your own stories by doing what you want to do instead being told where to go with restrictions.
As a DnD alum, I do like the idea of bringing a pnp rpg system to the world and never really liked the min/max approach. The thing will be how well they implement it. I want to group up to explore/fight and not zerg. Other games with the DE/public quests, it seems like no one wanted or needed to group to win through the encounters. I know some people don't like forced grouping, but it might be the only way to get people to group. If a high % of players don't choose to group, it will be much harder for others to get a group. And if the combat is action and without dependency on other classes (trinity), many won't group, leaving it hard to find group. But I am excited about the opportunity to be on the evil mobs side in a conflict.
Oh..there will be plenty of min/maxing. Go listen to the Class Panel. The min/maxing it seems will just come with the combination of classes and finding that perfect combo + items (they mentioned items will directly effect skills, like lowering costs, increasing damage of skills etc)
They threw around comparisons to League of Legends a lot and Magic the Gathering.
I'm hoping the content will be so that you don't have to min/max to be successful. I hope they don't have to make it easier to accomplish this. A balanced group, that covers the necessary "roles" should be able to work, if they play well. I know people will min/max, but hoping any combo of class skills, if played well, can be viable.
Edit: i just noticed how many times I said "I hope". Sigh, tired of boring games. I just want one to go the extra mile and make things interesting again. If this game is too easy, I can't see it holding my interest. My main fear.
I find it hard to believe after all these posts nobody's mentioned the most important thing which goes to the core of your question:
What EQN has is a newer HORIZONTAL progression system. This is the opposite of the more traditional VERTICAL progression system you're used to.
Basically what it boils down to is this:- In a horizontal progression system, you progress your character by unlocking more abilities and expanding your gear properties. Since there is no XP and no leveling, the playing field is by default even between all players. Thus skill ends up being supremely important and the major quality that differentiates players.
- In a vertical progression system, you progress your character by gaining levels and collecting gear. The main problems associated with this are (1) You have to grind to level up or gain gear; (2) Higher-level players are way more powerful than lower-level players.
Please read these to find out exactly the difference:
http://taugrim.com/2012/04/19/why-games-should-scale-horizontally-instead-of-vertically/
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/strangesands/122012/24271_What-is-Horizontal-Progression-Really
I hope that clarifies things for you.
Think of it like this. You start the game at lvl 50 - capped. Now go raid and pluder! Explore!
I am glad they've done away with leveling.. that mechanic in itself is a burden. I capped one toon in SWTOR. I would have loved to play all the other classes just to see the class stories - but I did not want to grind through 50 levels just to see the good stuff.
They are give us the good stuff up front. The land will be ours for the taking. We wont have to be weak for days and weeks on end.. levels that many just blow by anyway.
SOE May not be making EQN for you!
No I'm meaning your actual human playing abilities more knowledge more practice more skills ...just like playing a sport
let us gingerly touch our tips
Guild Wars 2 allow that, it's nothing new. In fact I was PvPing at level 5, although not effectively, I was able to gain most of my levels in GW2 in world PvP.
EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO
To expand upon these valid points you also avoid a lot more issues that is plaguing current MMO's today:
1) Empty lower leveling zones.
2) Content gets outdated.
3) Stat gear treadmill in the end game.
4) Needing to PL your friend that just joined the game.
5) You can destroy a lower level zone/dungeon/raid at max level.
6) PvP is always out of balance because players use different gear.
Horizontal progression seems to support a healthier MMO system and one that anyone can pick up from day one and get into the action. The Tier system will provide some separation in power since you have more abilities to choose from and higher tier gear will make those abilities cost less energy or mana. This will make your abilities more efficient and providing more combinations to you vs someone who just got into the game. Keeping you close, but still more powerful in different regards.
You do build your character over time in EQN just not through experience points, instead through exploring freely which is better than jumping from quest hub to quest hub in a linear fashion.
Maybe you could just have fun playing the game? Odd concept, I know.
Please don't troll me. I just want to understand. This is foreign to me. In my games now, my main goal is to level up and get better gear. This in turn also allows me to see new sights as well.
He's not trolling you. Think of it this way. If you go to a movie or museum are you any better at anything that before you did? You should be entertained though. Maybe learned a thing or two. Some games are about entertainment not virtual advancement. Not that I believe EQN is anything but the standard progression in a new wrapper.
RPG's are about virtual advancement, always have been. you play them to build your character in some way over time, at least i do.
it can be skill based, but just because its skill based does not mean you should get more powerful with the more skills you learn or the better you get at using a certain skill.
i am pretty sure they are doing it this way because it will be easier to balance.
but if i don't feel like my character is getting stronger or better in what he is doing, that will not be fun for long.
same thing happened in GW2 for me and i knew that it would.
does your character get stronger? or do you just get more classes to choose from and different gear?
It was mentioned that 1 point of strength would be a great achievement, and that INT could be just as important to a warrior as it is a mage; all depends on play style. Also because every perceived deed is recorded, your actions matter. Somewhere I read that it might not be possible to be an SK and Paladin at the same time because your actions as an SK would be frowned upon by those NPCs that would teach you your Paladin class. So although we have access to all classes, we might not be able to play all classes at the same time.
@OP - think of the 4 character abilities as your goal to start with, play the game and go from there. The 4 class abilities are locked to what "class" you are at the moment, but your 4 character abilities can be mixed and matched based on other classes you have unlocked.
The latter. You do "grind XP", but that only gets you "tiers" which open new ability choices. Choices that are not necessarily universally better than your previous choices but give you the flexibility to come up with superior build combinations for a particular situation.
Unfortunately, they said in the Q&A session that if you and a friend are adventuring in a tier 3 area, "you'd better be tier 3". Which tells me they really arean't sure what they are doing.
Maybe the point is what you do?
So, playing the economy, keeping wandering tribes of orcs out of farmers' fields, growing your guild and possibly pvp'ing/creating and empire, tackling larger pve encounters because they "needed a killin'" and gathering mats and stuff from these kills to sell, create better equipment, sell that, etc.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo