If you think solo play should be the priority in all online gaming then MMOs becoming 'solo games online' was a change I am sure you welcomed.
It's had always been the priority. It wasn't until WoW arrived that there was a sudden change in gameplay once people hit 60. MMOs aren't becoming 'solo games online', they are returning to it now that everyone's got the gear-chasing raiding nonsense out of their system.
If you think grouping is just about raids, you are so wrong. And if you were right, then it now just about being top level, what is so good about that?
If you think solo play should be the priority in all online gaming then MMOs becoming 'solo games online' was a change I am sure you welcomed. If not, then you will see the lack of grouping and group activities as a missed opportunity for a much better game, as I do.
I don't see there is a lack of grouping. I see choices. Tell me, what MMO does not have a LFD type function? Grouping is easy, often with rewards.
I agree that socialization is gone, but not grouping. They are two very different things.
Even games where i mostly solo, there are easy ways to group and i would try that once in a while.
Socialization is gone because games went mainstream and there's no way to put that genie back in the bottle. I wish people would just accept reality and stop whining non-stop about it.
I kind of agree. It's like growing up in a small town and everyone knows one another, then moving to a Big City where everyone is just rushing by.
That doesn't mean the Big City sucks. It just means it's a different lifestyle and you need to adapt to your surroundings. You can still make friends, just not with everyone.
This suddenly made me think of Smallville. Which was far better when Clark Kent lived out on a farm, once they got into the Big City it become clichéd, repetitive and lost its comic book ethos.
And that's pretty much what happened to MMO's too.
I'm not really inclined to come up with analogy but I can say that yours is terrible. The OP is correct, and it is unfortunate some here resent the teamwork, camraderie, and in many cases RL friendships, that were enjoyed in EQ.
You make it sound like the only place that happened was in EQ1. Get off your high horse. It happens in most MMO's.
You are not special.
Exactly. These people can't deal with reality so they whine about how unfair it all is. [mod edit]
I don't think that it's so much they can't deal with it rather that they are extremely unfamiliar with it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'm not really inclined to come up with analogy but I can say that yours is terrible. The OP is correct, and it is unfortunate some here resent the teamwork, camraderie, and in many cases RL friendships, that were enjoyed in EQ.
You make it sound like the only place that happened was in EQ1. Get off your high horse. It happens in most MMO's.
You are not special.
Exactly. These people can't deal with reality so they whine about how unfair it all is. The only person who thinks he's special is his mother and she was lying.
I don't think that it's so much they can't deal with it rather that they are extremely unfamiliar with it.
I think it is wishful thinking. While it is totally illogical, they may, subconsciously, believe that if they whine hard enough, something may happen.
Sorry but IMHO I think EQ screwed up grouping. In UO a group formed because people were hanging out doing the same thing. EQ changed that formula to be a group formed up to do anything.
It is a slight change but I think it completely changed the dynamic of grouping. Plus add in static group size, character levels, loot centric, etc. and you get a perfect suck storm of grouping.
EQ 1 had the best solo/grouping game play ever, its like clubs are for people who like to socially interact yet a person goes there just to dance by themselves its stupid, you dont go to the nightclub and say this club is just for people to dance by themselves, the club doesnt revolve around a person that is by themselves its for a group of people to interact dance and have fun together
That is how a mmorpg should be, a mmorpg should be about bringing people together to socially interact if you do not like to socially interact their are certain classes with solo capabilities to help you solo, like EQs necro and druid the classes were for soloist but EQ did not revolve around the soloist mindset.
I don't really agree with you but I also feel that this belongs in the solo vs grouping thread.
However, "I" would like to view mmo's as virtual worlds. Meaning people doing different things. Some grouping, some striking out on their own, sometimes grouping and selling to others and sometimes exploring, gathering, etc.
I'm a pretty social person in real life, an extrovert to boot, and I don't hang with people 'ALL THE TIME".
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Also, what some people don't understand, grouping is also done the old fashioned way. The grouping tools are just popular options.
Most of the time I ran dungeons/raids with friends/guildies but still used the grouping tools to either get the reward or to fill empty slots.
You can always group the old fashion way since every MMO supports a chat channel. But LFD/LFR is popular because the old fashion way is not fun enough for most.
Originally posted by Shadowguy64 Originally posted by ArclanI'm not really inclined to come up with analogy but I can say that yours is terrible. The OP is correct, and it is unfortunate some here resent the teamwork, camraderie, and in many cases RL friendships, that were enjoyed in EQ.
You make it sound like the only place that happened was in EQ1. Get off your high horse. It happens in most MMO's.
You are not special.
EQ wasn't the only place that was happening; but it sure doesn't happen in solo-geared games like WoW. I may not be special, but I am far more special in the eyes of my fellow EQ gamers than you are to your fellow WoW players. They could care less about you IRL. Whereas I know quite a lot of EQ players, still, fourteen years later, who remember and care about me. Shame you never got to experience that, and I can tell by the harsh replies how upsetting it must be.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Originally posted by ArclanI'm not really inclined to come up with analogy but I can say that yours is terrible. The OP is correct, and it is unfortunate some here resent the teamwork, camraderie, and in many cases RL friendships, that were enjoyed in EQ.
You make it sound like the only place that happened was in EQ1. Get off your high horse. It happens in most MMO's.
You are not special.
EQ wasn't the only place that was happening; but it sure doesn't happen in solo-geared games like WoW. I may not be special, but I am far more special in the eyes of my fellow EQ gamers than you are to your fellow WoW players. They could care less about you IRL. Whereas I know quite a lot of EQ players, still, fourteen years later, who remember and care about me. Shame you never got to experience that, and I can tell by the harsh replies how upsetting it must be.
You are completely wrong. I actually ended up dating someone I met in WoW. I also have a group of people I met on wow that I am in contact still and we play other games outside of WoW.
[mod edit]. You had a really good experience, but don't think that yours was the only one.
Looking at the juvenile/idiotic/racist/misogynistic rantings that permeate much of chat in MMOs these days, why would anyone want to associate with such people?
The OP used the example of a nightclub as an analogy of how an MMO world should interact. No, what an MMO provides is a virtual world into which all its participants gather. What we do in the virtual world is our choice, just as in the real world.
I am referring to the mechanics of grouping not the ability to find a group.
LFG systems like so many things were a two edged sword. On the one hand groups became easier to find, but also more random in nature. On the whole though they have been a good step forward. You can as has been mentioned do both, I have seen this done and it can work even in raids.
LFG systems like so many things were a two edged sword. On the one hand groups became easier to find, but also more random in nature. On the whole though they have been a good step forward. You can as has been mentioned do both, I have seen this done and it can work even in raids.
Yeh. It is working in wow raids. In fact, most players complete raids on LFR, than normal or hard mode.
Personally i quit wow long time ago, and came back because of LFR (until i quit again last Dec). It makes raiding more fun.
And yes, groups are more random but you also have control. You can easily just quit if there is anything you don't like about the group.
EQ 1 had the best solo/grouping game play ever, its like clubs are for people who like to socially interact yet a person goes there just to dance by themselves its stupid, you dont go to the nightclub and say this club is just for people to dance by themselves, the club doesnt revolve around a person that is by themselves its for a group of people to interact dance and have fun together
That is how a mmorpg should be, a mmorpg should be about bringing people together to socially interact if you do not like to socially interact their are certain classes with solo capabilities to help you solo, like EQs necro and druid the classes were for soloist but EQ did not revolve around the soloist mindset.
These posts make it painfully clear that exEQ players were oblivious to everything else on the market for years. There's no way that one can make a crazy post like this and know that UO, AC, Toon Town, Puzzle Pirates, EVE Online, etc exist - and have done so for a decade or more - with solo gameplay and social communities.
It's like they've been locked in a tiny EQ bubble for fourteen years.
EDIT: Just read Ramonski7's post and it sums things up rather well.
They snub their nose at everything that wasn't EQ1. It's true.
Yep and you get the same thing from DaoC players when it comes to PvP.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
blaa blaa blaa this subject have been discussed million times years and years and still another mmo gamer rise from mud and thinks he needs to cry out the usual " why make mmo that you can solo play thro RAAAA "
tell you one reason , because people like to play game where they can develop their character and see other people not AI running around not feel so lonely and pointless to play like normal single player game.
EQ 1 had the best solo/grouping game play ever, its like clubs are for people who like to socially interact yet a person goes there just to dance by themselves its stupid, you dont go to the nightclub and say this club is just for people to dance by themselves, the club doesnt revolve around a person that is by themselves its for a group of people to interact dance and have fun together
That is how a mmorpg should be, a mmorpg should be about bringing people together to socially interact if you do not like to socially interact their are certain classes with solo capabilities to help you solo, like EQs necro and druid the classes were for soloist but EQ did not revolve around the soloist mindset.
These posts make it painfully clear that exEQ players were oblivious to everything else on the market for years. There's no way that one can make a crazy post like this and know that UO, AC, Toon Town, Puzzle Pirates, EVE Online, etc exist - and have done so for a decade or more - with solo gameplay and social communities.
It's like they've been locked in a tiny EQ bubble for fourteen years.
EDIT: Just read Ramonski7's post and it sums things up rather well.
They snub their nose at everything that wasn't EQ1. It's true.
Yep and you get the same thing from DaoC players when it comes to PvP.
and i have to agree with this and mostly they have not even played the game but only saying so cause they think its cool.
Once a company commits to punishing the type of douchebag that has ruined just about every single MMO community then I'll commit to a game that requires grouping. Until then, continue making most of the game soloable with some group activities on the side. Lack of grouping is necessary when the majority of players get their jollies from ruining everyone's nice time.
Given how the market has grown, sounds like a winning strategy to me.
Winning strategy?
Then tell me why new MMO have such short lifespans?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Given how the market has grown, sounds like a winning strategy to me.
Winning strategy?
Then tell me why new MMO have such short lifespans?
Because they make money up front and they don't need a long lifespan to be profitable? And players can play many more games (i.e. more variety) because you can finish a game faster.
Comments
If you think grouping is just about raids, you are so wrong. And if you were right, then it now just about being top level, what is so good about that?
This suddenly made me think of Smallville. Which was far better when Clark Kent lived out on a farm, once they got into the Big City it become clichéd, repetitive and lost its comic book ethos.
And that's pretty much what happened to MMO's too.
I don't think that it's so much they can't deal with it rather that they are extremely unfamiliar with it.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I think it is wishful thinking. While it is totally illogical, they may, subconsciously, believe that if they whine hard enough, something may happen.
Sorry but IMHO I think EQ screwed up grouping. In UO a group formed because people were hanging out doing the same thing. EQ changed that formula to be a group formed up to do anything.
It is a slight change but I think it completely changed the dynamic of grouping. Plus add in static group size, character levels, loot centric, etc. and you get a perfect suck storm of grouping.
yeh, and WOW fixed it with LFD and LFR.
I don't really agree with you but I also feel that this belongs in the solo vs grouping thread.
However, "I" would like to view mmo's as virtual worlds. Meaning people doing different things. Some grouping, some striking out on their own, sometimes grouping and selling to others and sometimes exploring, gathering, etc.
I'm a pretty social person in real life, an extrovert to boot, and I don't hang with people 'ALL THE TIME".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Also, what some people don't understand, grouping is also done the old fashioned way. The grouping tools are just popular options.
Most of the time I ran dungeons/raids with friends/guildies but still used the grouping tools to either get the reward or to fill empty slots.
You can always group the old fashion way since every MMO supports a chat channel. But LFD/LFR is popular because the old fashion way is not fun enough for most.
You make it sound like the only place that happened was in EQ1. Get off your high horse. It happens in most MMO's.
You are not special.
EQ wasn't the only place that was happening; but it sure doesn't happen in solo-geared games like WoW. I may not be special, but I am far more special in the eyes of my fellow EQ gamers than you are to your fellow WoW players. They could care less about you IRL. Whereas I know quite a lot of EQ players, still, fourteen years later, who remember and care about me. Shame you never got to experience that, and I can tell by the harsh replies how upsetting it must be.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
You are completely wrong. I actually ended up dating someone I met in WoW. I also have a group of people I met on wow that I am in contact still and we play other games outside of WoW.
[mod edit]. You had a really good experience, but don't think that yours was the only one.Looking at the juvenile/idiotic/racist/misogynistic rantings that permeate much of chat in MMOs these days, why would anyone want to associate with such people?
The OP used the example of a nightclub as an analogy of how an MMO world should interact. No, what an MMO provides is a virtual world into which all its participants gather. What we do in the virtual world is our choice, just as in the real world.
I am referring to the mechanics of grouping not the ability to find a group.
LFG systems like so many things were a two edged sword. On the one hand groups became easier to find, but also more random in nature. On the whole though they have been a good step forward. You can as has been mentioned do both, I have seen this done and it can work even in raids.
Yeh. It is working in wow raids. In fact, most players complete raids on LFR, than normal or hard mode.
Personally i quit wow long time ago, and came back because of LFR (until i quit again last Dec). It makes raiding more fun.
And yes, groups are more random but you also have control. You can easily just quit if there is anything you don't like about the group.
Yep and you get the same thing from DaoC players when it comes to PvP.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
blaa blaa blaa this subject have been discussed million times years and years and still another mmo gamer rise from mud and thinks he needs to cry out the usual " why make mmo that you can solo play thro RAAAA "
tell you one reason , because people like to play game where they can develop their character and see other people not AI running around not feel so lonely and pointless to play like normal single player game.
and i have to agree with this and mostly they have not even played the game but only saying so cause they think its cool.
Once a company commits to punishing the type of douchebag that has ruined just about every single MMO community then I'll commit to a game that requires grouping. Until then, continue making most of the game soloable with some group activities on the side. Lack of grouping is necessary when the majority of players get their jollies from ruining everyone's nice time.
Every MMO I have ever played had group content in it. In pretty much every case, the group mechanics created divisions in the group.
6 guys go in but only one will get a loot. Do it 6 times and one guy will get 6 loots.
It's funny how Games obsess over balance when I can one shot a Boss but they never got around to balancing group reward systems.
Not in individual loot-roll systems.
In WOW LFR, you roll your own loot, there is no sharing. This is just like Diablo 3.
Winning strategy?
Then tell me why new MMO have such short lifespans?
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Because they make money up front and they don't need a long lifespan to be profitable? And players can play many more games (i.e. more variety) because you can finish a game faster.
Sounds like a win-win to me.
Solve the 'dead zone' problem that occurs in almost every mmo a few months after launch and we'll talk.....
If it is all group based. And there is no group to play with - your philosophy may be sound but the reality is lacking.
Simple. Put most content (except cities) in instances like NWO. No more dead zones.