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Telegraph system: Do you like it?

RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member

My little cousin is trying to get me in wildstar. I was never interested in this game before. While i tried to like it for him, i could not stop making fun of this game while he took it as an offense. I made fun of one feature: The telegraph system and how overused it is.

I feel like you can dodge everything. I'm from the megaman X era and i'm one of these players that have to learn to die before dodging everything. From watching one pve video of wild star, i don't see myself dying unless i get tired of trying to kill an high level enemy when i'm level 10-20 because it might take an hour. 

I just beat dark souls and i'm waiting for the next one. That's one game i would not play if they had a telegraph system.

My question is: Will there be a server to completely remove these silly red lights that you see everyday at each intersections? 

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Comments

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKPosts: 8,539Member Uncommon

    I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

    Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastPosts: 1,617Member Uncommon
    It can be hard on some monsters to doge it correctly. I think it's annoying myself but others may disagree.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • SiphaedSiphaed Everywhere!Posts: 877Member Uncommon

    Ability telegraphing is the new "it" for all MMO's coming out that are from the hype machines.

     

    EverQuest Next:  Moderate Telegraphs. (some abilities and AoE's are telegraphed, others are not; 50/50 split)

     

    The Elder Scrolls Online:  Light Telegraphs (only seen two in the videos from this past Friday)

     

    Guild Wars 2:   Light Telegraphs (i.e. AoE Red Rings)

     

    Wildstar:  Heavy Telegraphs  (nearly everything in the game is telegraphed with ability mapping)

     

    The bonus of this:  All of these games are moving to Area-of-Effect attacking.  Static ability targeting of a single target is something that is getting phased out in MMO's.   Fewer and fewer single-target abilities are being produced as spells and sword swings hit multiple targets.

     

    The downside is that telegraphs are basically idiot-proofing for a game.  AoE's that are distance ground targeted are kind of an exception.  I'm more talking about the Ogre club smash,  the bull's charge, cannon firing forwards:  those things have animations to them.  Animations are clearly visible and interpretable to those of a average intelligence.  But these thing are getting flashing light shows for the idiots of the world that play the game too, to accommodate their lack of attentive awareness.  

     

    Wildstar is in the red for a reason:  too damned accommodating to stupid people.

     

     

     


  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed

    Ability telegraphing is the new "it" for all MMO's coming out that are from the hype machines.

     

    EverQuest Next:  Moderate Telegraphs. (some abilities and AoE's are telegraphed, others are not; 50/50 split)

     

    The Elder Scrolls Online:  Light Telegraphs (only seen two in the videos from this past Friday)

     

    Guild Wars 2:   Light Telegraphs (i.e. AoE Red Rings)

     

    Wildstar:  Heavy Telegraphs  (nearly everything in the game is telegraphed with ability mapping)

     

    The bonus of this:  All of these games are moving to Area-of-Effect attacking.  Static ability targeting of a single target is something that is getting phased out in MMO's.   Fewer and fewer single-target abilities are being produced as spells and sword swings hit multiple targets.

     

    The downside is that telegraphs are basically idiot-proofing for a game.  AoE's that are distance ground targeted are kind of an exception.  I'm more talking about the Ogre club smash,  the bull's charge, cannon firing forwards:  those things have animations to them.  Animations are clearly visible and interpretable to those of a average intelligence.  But these thing are getting flashing light shows for the idiots of the world that play the game too, to accommodate their lack of attentive awareness.  

     

    Wildstar is in the red for a reason:  too damned accommodating to stupid people.

     

     

     

    My favorite telegraph system is what they use in smite. I'm not sure how you would call it since it's nothing like EQN.

    The telegraph only appears at the same time that an aoe range ability hits and it's not a red or green bubble, it's just a traced circle made for dot type abilities so that way, you know that it's a on going aoe spell. If the effect of the ability makes it obvious enough, there won't be a telegraph coz it's not always needed and i can only recall one mage that looks like a blue dragon that has something like that for his tornado ult.Melee aoe don't have a telegraph from what i know; from the heroes i tried. Same goes for the mini bosses of the map and this is to make it more challenging to kill them as a team.

    When i watch a video of wild star, it reminds me of this video. and it's not because of the megaman part, it's about the fact that new games are dropping instruction and warnings everywhere instead of letting us figuring out ourselves like most old school games and dark souls.

     

    Wildstar is an RPG. Where's the learning curve when all you have to do is looking at the red lights. It's sad when we can't expect an rpg and progression aspect of a game to expand further more into our intelligences and learning curves. I feel like the game is playing for us when i see warnings everywhere in a game. For that, it's hard for me to see the longevity of this game.

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  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Boring, TXPosts: 1,172Member Uncommon
    Personally I find it disgusting that developers find us too inept to ever learn how to dodge without them.
  • UWNVMEUWNVME Auburn, WAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    Personally I find it disgusting that developers find us too inept to ever learn how to dodge without them.


     How can you dodge them though if you have no idea what the hit area looks like? I mean yeah, a boulder flying straight towards you is pretty obvious, but what about something like spikes rupturing from the ground? There needs be some sort of indicator.

  • UWNVMEUWNVME Auburn, WAPosts: 174Member
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
     

    Wildstar is an RPG. Where's the learning curve when all you have to do is looking at the red lights. It's sad when we can't expect an rpg and progression aspect of a game to expand further more into our intelligences and learning curves. I feel like the game is playing for us when i see warnings everywhere in a game. For that, it's hard for me to see the longevity of this game.

     

     I don't think you've really looked into the game's combat system. Yes, it's pretty easy to dodge a single telegraph against a single mob, just like it's easy to jump over a fireball in Street Fighter 4. However, not every combat situation is going to be the same. There's plenty of possibilities such as dodging multiple telegraphs in a short time span while trying to focus on another objective such as healing or holding aggro (both of which require aiming), or having to avoid attacks while under some form of crowd control (when blinded for example, your screen is blacked out partially).

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Siphaed

    Ability telegraphing is the new "it" for all MMO's coming out that are from the hype machines.

     

    EverQuest Next:  Moderate Telegraphs. (some abilities and AoE's are telegraphed, others are not; 50/50 split)

     

    The Elder Scrolls Online:  Light Telegraphs (only seen two in the videos from this past Friday)

     

    Guild Wars 2:   Light Telegraphs (i.e. AoE Red Rings)

     

    Wildstar:  Heavy Telegraphs  (nearly everything in the game is telegraphed with ability mapping)

     

    The bonus of this:  All of these games are moving to Area-of-Effect attacking.  Static ability targeting of a single target is something that is getting phased out in MMO's.   Fewer and fewer single-target abilities are being produced as spells and sword swings hit multiple targets.

     

    The downside is that telegraphs are basically idiot-proofing for a game.  AoE's that are distance ground targeted are kind of an exception.  I'm more talking about the Ogre club smash,  the bull's charge, cannon firing forwards:  those things have animations to them.  Animations are clearly visible and interpretable to those of a average intelligence.  But these thing are getting flashing light shows for the idiots of the world that play the game too, to accommodate their lack of attentive awareness.  

     

    Wildstar is in the red for a reason:  too damned accommodating to stupid people.

     

     

     

    Except you left out the fact that Wildstar's telegraphing is by far a complex system that it actually adds a level of depth in the combat.  The start simple and get more n more complex.

    And really, telegraphing has been going on for well over a decade ever since DBM became relied upon which no one ran without in WoW.

  • XirikXirik Yorkton, SKPosts: 1,699Member

    Why does it feel like  most of the posters here think the mobs are all barney the dinosaur doing a telegraph and having it show for 10 seconds before he does it all while saying "hur hur hur friend imma hit you sooon"

     

    Sadly that is not the case.  The telegraphs are 2 seconds at max and those are the wide area ones so they give you extra time and get shorter shorter timers as you lvl.

     

     

    If you are a elitist and want to be surrounded by elitists this is not your game. It may not occur do you people but not everyone is a mmorpg/action game veteran.  The Devs are trying to get new people into the game. people who don't know that if a mom stomps his foot it means he's gonna ***** you with a spoon.  The telegraphs are super easy at the begining because they want people to get used to the idea of dodging and watching for the queue signs.

    I personally like lots of people playing along with me in the mmorpg I play , it  makes the game feel alive you know?

     

    TLTR= telegraphs are not easymode and people who complain about it are elitist who should probably look for a different game. FF14 perhaps?

    "You have some serious mental issues you may need to seek some help for. There are others who post things, but do not post them in the way you do. Out of every person who posts crazy shit in this forum, you have some of the craziest and scariest" -FarReach

  • MatryoshkaMatryoshka Portland, ORPosts: 92Member
    I have no problem with them. Tera had a system that was a little similar and it was probably some of the hardest MMO combat I've ever played. I know people will flame me for this, but I feel like if they make the abilities have frame lock like Tera (like a fighting game), it will make their telegraph system infinitely better. I disliked it in GW2 because of the ability to freely cast while moving.
  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member

    Originally posted by UWNVME

    Originally posted by moosecatlol
    Personally I find it disgusting that developers find us too inept to ever learn how to dodge without them.


     How can you dodge them though if you have no idea what the hit area looks like? I mean yeah, a boulder flying straight towards you is pretty obvious, but what about something like spikes rupturing from the ground? There needs be some sort of indicator.

    Like i said before, this is an rpg game and if they want to take out the learning curve completely of prediction meta, this game won't be durable for some players. The telegraph system of wilds star is there to completely eliminate our need to predict anything that is supposed to happen, to learn from each enemies in the game and to be cautious of the dances that our enemies are making before the effects. Only thing left is to dodge. With no try and error to eventually get to the end, only thing left to do is a quick speedrun to the end.

    If dark souls had a telegraph system, you would have to be a bad player to get killed from anything in the game. There's a reason ppl still play it: Try and errors plus the fact that there's a death penalty. 

    Darksouls is a proof that casual players will welcome a hard game in their live, they don't only play easy games unless we're talking about casual none gamer. 

    Originally posted by UWNVME

    Originally posted by Realbigdeal
     

    Wildstar is an RPG. Where's the learning curve when all you have to do is looking at the red lights. It's sad when we can't expect an rpg and progression aspect of a game to expand further more into our intelligences and learning curves. I feel like the game is playing for us when i see warnings everywhere in a game. For that, it's hard for me to see the longevity of this game.

     

     I don't think you've really looked into the game's combat system. Yes, it's pretty easy to dodge a single telegraph against a single mob, just like it's easy to jump over a fireball in Street Fighter 4. However, not every combat situation is going to be the same. There's plenty of possibilities such as dodging multiple telegraphs in a short time span while trying to focus on another objective such as healing or holding aggro (both of which require aiming), or having to avoid attacks while under some form of crowd control (when blinded for example, your screen is blacked out partially).

    You will have to show me a video that contains what you describe or i will have to wait and see. I've seen enough footage, but not one with a lot of enemies at once. I think i saw 3-4 enemies at once at max and they did not seem to be hard to dodge either.

    The bosses that i saw seemed to be simple to beat. Only thing they can do that is good is a normal attack since it's impossible to dodge when you're targeted.

    I did not know that enemies attacked faster as you level up, but if bosses seem to be as slow as any other enemies that i saw so far, i find this hard to believe.

     

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  • Ichabod_CraneIchabod_Crane gary, INPosts: 7Member Common
    Originally posted by Realbigdeal

    My little cousin is trying to get me in wildstar. I was never interested in this game before. While i tried to like it for him, i could not stop making fun of this game while he took it as an offense. I made fun of one feature: The telegraph system and how overused it is.

    I feel like you can dodge everything. I'm from the megaman X era and i'm one of these players that have to learn to die before dodging everything. From watching one pve video of wild star, i don't see myself dying unless i get tired of trying to kill an high level enemy when i'm level 10-20 because it might take an hour. 

    I just beat dark souls and i'm waiting for the next one. That's one game i would not play if they had a telegraph system.

    My question is: Will there be a server to completely remove these silly red lights that you see everyday at each intersections? 

    This is the biggest concern I have with the game.  I have not played the beta so I don't know how the telegraph system is going to work.  If it is like this, then I may not like the game.  I don't wanna be able to dodge everything with ease.  The gameplay would become boring and tiresome quite quickly.

     

    However, if, as Xirik posted, the Telegraphing gets less and less pronounced as you level up, Then I may not mind it as much.

    image
  • someforumguysomeforumguy HomePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon
    Everytime I see one of those red circles or cones, they nibble at my immersion. But I have no other solution and I do like action combat.
  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by Matryoshka
    I have no problem with them. Tera had a system that was a little similar and it was probably some of the hardest MMO combat I've ever played. I know people will flame me for this, but I feel like if they make the abilities have frame lock like Tera (like a fighting game), it will make their telegraph system infinitely better. I disliked it in GW2 because of the ability to freely cast while moving.

    After your post, i tried to go look for this telegraph system on youtube and google. What i found does not seem to be as bad as wildstar's telegraph. 

    Even during a long time, it takes a long time to notice the telegraph; probably because it's not set on every single abilities and that's how it should be. In that boss fight, only time i saw a telegraph was for a support ability so they had to get in it instead of dodging it. (This is just to say that the telegraph is not everywhere and does not seem like it's an immersion breaker).

    I found a thread in the wildstar forum. I read one guy saying that the telegraph in tera online is terrible because their either too fast, hard to dodge even when you see it and you eventually end up dead if your perception is not better than what the game is trying to show you.

    Also, in their own wildstar forum, some members keep hoping that wildstar won't be a game that holds your hands all the way to the end starting with the telegraph system.

     

    This is just to say that it's not only the few of us that dislike the telegraph system in wildstar; we don't hate the telegraph system if it's done in the right way.

    EDIT:

    now i'm about to go read this article.

    Ttile: Does WildStar combat have too much hand-holding?

    http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/wildstar-combat-tester-qa/

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  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    I don't mind it and a lot of games are doing it now really - TSW, RIFT, GW2, EQNext, Wildstar are the ones I'm aware of.  I don't know if any of them are focusing on it as much as Wildstar is though.  I think RIFT does it well because it's not too in your face and not all the time.  Secret world not too bad either.
  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,668Member Uncommon
    I like it because it allows the devs to create more varied attacks other than simple radial AoEs. Without telegraphing, they would need some other type of cue to let players know when or where these spells may hit, and without any cue, it's all jsut a random mess.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • tyrlaantyrlaan Union, NJPosts: 17Member

    Personally I'd rather have a chance to react to an attack rather than learn by getting killed by it first. 

     

    Let's remember this is a game. Games are supposed to be fun. Maybe some folks enjoy learning game mechanics by stumbling into them. Me? I'd rather have a chance to pick things up right away. Learning by being punished for something you couldn't know is unfun, uninteresting, and just bad design.

     

    There's a reason raiders in WoW run DBM and watch video strats before they go in. 

  • RocknissRockniss Youngstown, OHPosts: 1,034Member
    It was acceptable before the eqnext launch, but now...... well the best way to describe how I am feeling is "who cares?" Its amazing because before the eqnext reveal I was all about playing some wildstar, but now I am about 99 % sure I will never log into the game, if you would have asked before the eqnext reveal and I had to answer yes or no, I would have said no even though it was acceptable
  • DemalisDemalis Drumheller, ABPosts: 134Member

    I don't know I haven't played it yet, won't need mods I guess (DBM). Sometimes when I read some of the posts I am reminded of that old guy who says things like " When I used the phone to call someone I had to use a turn dial, humph, those were tough days."

    I think for lower levels it will turn people off, and will shine brightest at end game, only problem being the low levels are usually the hook. I find if the game is just not that much fun while leveling I don't bother sticking around for end game. I hope it's good.

  • tyrlaantyrlaan Union, NJPosts: 17Member
    Originally posted by Demalis

    I don't know I haven't played it yet, won't need mods I guess (DBM). Sometimes when I read some of the posts I am reminded of that old guy who says things like " When I used the phone to call someone I had to use a turn dial, humph, those were tough days."

    Exactly this.

  • NagelRitterNagelRitter fewefw, CTPosts: 607Member

    I don't care for them, but a lot of it comes because MMO's have really poor indication of anything happening.

    I mean, your average dungeon is a complete mess with stuff flying in every direction. It can be hard to figure out what is fire and what is not and the game often mushes those together.

    Favorite MMO: Vanilla WoW
    Currently playing: GW2, EVE
    Excited for: Wildstar, maybe?

  • NildenNilden null, NBPosts: 1,284Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DMKano

    I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

    Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

    I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

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  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONPosts: 2,499Member Uncommon

    I don't have a problem with telegraphs. I think that telegraphs give you an opportunity to do unique things, like randomizing attack areas. Think about any game without telegraphs. Those who actually master the content need to learn the triggers and then react accordingly, but the attacks themselves don't change. What telegraphs allow devs to do is create dynamic attacks which may not be the same each time. If you really think about it, attacks are telegraphed as it is, whether visually or otherwise. I think that with visual telegraphs you can actually make it more difficult. 

     

    Based on what I've read of Wildstar to date, they are seeking to create extremely difficult content, so I don't see them implementing a telegraph system in such a way that the content is extremely easy to play through. 

     

    So I guess my real question is, did you play it? Or did you even have an opportunity to play it? If so, what was the difficulty ramp like? or was it entirely non-existent? Or are you just going off whatever Youtube videos you've seen?

    Crazkanuk

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  • jesusjuice69jesusjuice69 Route 69, NDPosts: 276Member

    Telegraphs have been in MMOs for a long time now!

    This system is much better than DBM + Vague telegraph system that exists in WoW.

     

    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by DMKano

    I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

    Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

    I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

    Sorry, but that doesn't work.

    It just isn't realistic to give hundreds or thousands of mobs numerous animation tells, and expect the players to memorize them all.  Tell me a game that does that, and maybe we can talk!

  • RealbigdealRealbigdeal Vimont, QCPosts: 1,625Member
    Originally posted by jesusjuice69

    Telegraphs have been in MMOs for a long time now!

    This system is much better than DBM + Vague telegraph system that exists in WoW.

     

    Originally posted by nilden
    Originally posted by DMKano

    I personally abhor the telegraph system - it reduces the game to a flat 2d surface where you avoid red shapes on the ground.

    Immersion killer - I don't even watch the mobs or their animations, I just watch rudimentary shapes on the ground. They could replace mob graphics with floating cubes - the gameplay would still be the same as its all about dodging red shapes on the ground.

    I agree and would argue the best way to do a telegraph system is with the mob animations. Example dragon is going to breath fire, before that it does an inhale animation. I'm sure given minor amounts of attention and a reasonable responce time aloud people will avoid obvious dangers. Fire/acid/spikes on the ground is something your going to avoid it doesn't need to be avoid the red shapes.

    Sorry, but that doesn't work.

    It just isn't realistic to give hundreds or thousands of mobs numerous animation tells, and expect the players to memorize them all.  Tell me a game that does that, and maybe we can talk!

    I never played wow for too long to notice a telegraph. I played it for 3 months when the level cap was 70.

    If by vague, you mean that the spell or ability appear instantly: right when the telegraph appear, then i think it's fine that way. I just searched youtube, guildwars 2 dungeon. There's indeed a telegraph system, but once the telegraph appears, the ability drops instantly and most of the time, it's a debuff, a dot type or support and from players.

    Basically, the telegraph system of guild wars 2 is made for the same type of telegraph that a player use during pvp meaning that you still have to be punished in order to know what to watch for next time to try to fight this monster or this player and that's how it should be for every games with a telegraph. 

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