Sandboxes without OW PVP would have worse player retention than themeparks

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAMember CommonPosts: 10,910


    Originally posted by YoungCaesar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Holophonist Sorry but I just do not for a second buy that people prefer developer-written stories (which most people don't even read or pay attention to) over stories that involve them personally and matter to them in a real way. And as far as I can tell the only evidence or argument I've heard to the contrary is that more people play themeparks. Not the best argument.
    YOu haven't read reviews that tout good written stories in games? You don't think part of Bioshock Infinite's big success its story? I disagree. I doubt any clan stuff from a bunch of random players is engaging as stories in Bioshock, Dishonored, or even Deus Ex Human Evoluation. There is a reason professional story writers are paid for their work.  
    Any dev written story is bullshit. Your always the Chosen one to save the world and shit, playing with millions of other "Chosen" ones lol... there is just no rival to player politics, I havent played Darkfall (yet) but I still remember in Shadowbane when there was a Chinease invasión and they were taking all the player cities in the server. Every western guild had to unite to take out the intruders. Massive banes (sieges)...


    Naris is right. There's a reason why games like Bioshock Infinite and Deux Ex sell a bajillion copies, and continue to have strong sales years after they release and it has a lot to do with the story line that the player follows.

    The problem with that line of reasoning isn't the quality of the stories, because they are objectively good, not just subjectively. The problem is that the types of stories told in single player RPGs don't work well in MMORPG.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgMember UncommonPosts: 1,508
    Originally posted by lizardbones
      Originally posted by YoungCaesar
    Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Holophonist Sorry but I just do not for a second buy that people prefer developer-written stories (which most people don't even read or pay attention to) over stories that involve them personally and matter to them in a real way. And as far as I can tell the only evidence or argument I've heard to the contrary is that more people play themeparks. Not the best argument.
    YOu haven't read reviews that tout good written stories in games? You don't think part of Bioshock Infinite's big success its story? I disagree. I doubt any clan stuff from a bunch of random players is engaging as stories in Bioshock, Dishonored, or even Deus Ex Human Evoluation. There is a reason professional story writers are paid for their work.  
    Any dev written story is bullshit. Your always the Chosen one to save the world and shit, playing with millions of other "Chosen" ones lol... there is just no rival to player politics, I havent played Darkfall (yet) but I still remember in Shadowbane when there was a Chinease invasión and they were taking all the player cities in the server. Every western guild had to unite to take out the intruders. Massive banes (sieges)...


    Naris is right. There's a reason why games like Bioshock Infinite and Deux Ex sell a bajillion copies, and continue to have strong sales years after they release and it has a lot to do with the story line that the player follows.

    The problem with that line of reasoning isn't the quality of the stories, because they are objectively good, not just subjectively. The problem is that the types of stories told in single player RPGs don't work well in MMORPG.

     

    He is right and wrong. Why? Stories work very well for single player games. You run through them one time.. you experience the stroy for that game.. and given a good story you will have a good experience.

    Open that up a little bit like Fallout 3. Now you have different stories.. but all come to and end, and you can all experience once.

    And now we go multiplayer or massive multiplayer. In the usual multiplayer you do in most time not have any story at all. No story in DotA, no story in Battlefield, and so on. Because.. you can't tell the same story twice. So you have just Lore. A Background story were everything is settled, but no linear story.

    And with Massive Multiplayer games? It is basicly the same. We do have stories there.. but they usually don't work, because it is just interesting the first time. And it becomes even worst when everyone expect the exact same story as the exact same participant aka Hero.

    What would be needed in a Massive Multiplayer game? You would need some kind of dynamic story. This should be feeded from different stories. You have Lore, and this lore should evolve over time. This lore should be influenced by the action of all players in the World. With other words.. you need a spanning Lore evolving over time based on the actions of players, and maybe with influence of professionel story writers in the background. But this wasn't done until now, and is very hard to accomplish. And this is were PvP, but also if dynamic PvE can be part of that. EvE does have somewhat over a spanning lore story based on the player actions and war.. somewhat of chronicles of EvE so to say. But nevertheless very limited up to now.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,660
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    And now we go multiplayer or massive multiplayer. In the usual multiplayer you do in most time not have any story at all. No story in DotA, no story in Battlefield, and so on. Because.. you can't tell the same story twice. So you have just Lore. A Background story were everything is settled, but no linear story.

    You are wrong.

    There is a story in Diablo 1, 2 and 3. There is a story in Borderland 2. All multiplayer. Granted these stories are nothing like those in Dishonored or Bioshock Infinite (which btw, can be played co-op), but there are still linear stories.

    And no one say you cannot do the same in MMORPGs. In fact, it is done in MMORPGs. The story for leveling is always played through only ONCE.

    The only issue is that they are not told very well. They should learn from SP games, and do good stories in instances.

     

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