What reason would there be to keep him there? He's a game design genius.
He (so i head) WAS "a game design genius" 20 years ago. If Vanguard proved anything it was that the man had learned absolutely nothing in the 10 year span between EQ1 and Vanguard and that any vision or genius he ever had was firmly rooted in a decade-outdated concepts.
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
What reason would there be to keep him there? He's a game design genius.
He (so i head) WAS "a game design genius" 20 years ago. If Vanguard proved anything it was that the man had learned absolutely nothing in the 10 year span between EQ1 and Vanguard and that any vision or genius he ever had was firmly rooted in a decade-outdated concepts.
If Vanguard proved anything it would be that people can be great at one thing and awful at others.
Great game designer, awful project manager and businessman.
Though as everyone else has said he's helping to market the game, despite having little to nothing to do with it.
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
It did have Diplomacy (unfinished and unintegrated - but a great idea), some very interesting classes (i love you Blood Mage!) and some beautiful cities. Oh and the music in the Elven city was awesome.
But yeah, aside from that it was just painful to play. Same exact cookie-cutter quest hub gameplay, only you now had to spend stupid amounts of time just getting to your quest or if you god-forbid died, you were basically screwed from playing the game for a while.
SWG had been "ahead of its time". Vanguard was stuck 10 years in the past. Guess it doesn't matter since both failed.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
It did have Diplomacy (unfinished and unintegrated - but a great idea), some very interesting classes (i love you Blood Mage!) and some beautiful cities. Oh and the music in the Elven city was awesome.
But yeah, aside from that it was just painful to play. Same exact cookie-cutter quest hub gameplay, only you now had to spend stupid amounts of time just getting to your quest or if you god-forbid died, you were basically screwed from playing the game for a while.
SWG had been "ahead of its time". Vanguard was stuck 10 years in the past. Guess it doesn't matter since both failed.
did you poll everyone who played it?
VG is notoriously known as being a sinking ship the moment of release.Its initial unplayability due to server instability and numerous major/minor bugs turned people off.
Your gripes are of preference.The issues I stated above are more of a mainstream problem when it comes to player base.
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
Your level of revisionist history and false statements are disturbing. Time and time again has shown that Vanguard is incredibly well loved.
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
It did have Diplomacy (unfinished and unintegrated - but a great idea), some very interesting classes (i love you Blood Mage!) and some beautiful cities. Oh and the music in the Elven city was awesome.
But yeah, aside from that it was just painful to play. Same exact cookie-cutter quest hub gameplay, only you now had to spend stupid amounts of time just getting to your quest or if you god-forbid died, you were basically screwed from playing the game for a while.
SWG had been "ahead of its time". Vanguard was stuck 10 years in the past. Guess it doesn't matter since both failed.
Dear god this genre has catered to your make it more convenient kind for 9 years. Please let the original players of the genre pretend that there will eventually be another game for them...some day.
There are soooo many other games out there that have had less vision and suck inifinitely more than VG and EQ1. People that hate SOE have not done their homework. SOE has almost always had a vision that wasn't cookie cutter, like every other large MMO company. Their execution hasn't been great, but the ideas matter more than the execution if we are to have hope for EQN.
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
It did have Diplomacy (unfinished and unintegrated - but a great idea), some very interesting classes (i love you Blood Mage!) and some beautiful cities. Oh and the music in the Elven city was awesome.
But yeah, aside from that it was just painful to play. Same exact cookie-cutter quest hub gameplay, only you now had to spend stupid amounts of time just getting to your quest or if you god-forbid died, you were basically screwed from playing the game for a while.
SWG had been "ahead of its time". Vanguard was stuck 10 years in the past. Guess it doesn't matter since both failed.
I don't think your reasons for why Vanguard failed are accuarate in the slightest. Sure character models weren't very good, but since when does that cause a game to fail? And sure people weren't most fond of loading between chunks, but one of the most talked about and loved aspect of the game was the lack of instancing. It failed because of it's horrible launch, period. Just because you find things that take longer to do than instacomplete tedious doesn't mean everyone else does.
Dear god this genre has catered to your make it more convenient kind for 9 years. Please let the original players of the genre pretend that there will eventually be another game for them...some day.
Oh i am sorry that i only started in the genre 15 years ago and missed out on MUDs and MUSHes or whatever it is that you played "at the beginning of the genre" that somehow makes you "more of a veteran" than everyone else.
There are soooo many other games out there that have had less vision and suck inifinitely more than VG and EQ1.
This is true. There are also just as many or more game out there have more vision and suck infinitely less. EQ1 - along with many other games developed at that time - AO, DAoC, UO, etc. - is a landmark in the genre. Vanguard, along with AoC, WAR, LoTRO and DDO is just another game that failed to be the 'next-generation' after EQ2/WoW. Not that all those games are bad - i played all of them and there were cool parts to all - but they failed to further evolve the genre.
People that hate SOE have not done their homework. SOE has almost always had a vision that wasn't cookie cutter, like every other large MMO company. Their execution hasn't been great, but the ideas matter more than the execution if we are to have hope for EQN.
I fully agree with this. SOE has done some interesting stuff over the years - SWG is probably the greatest MMO in terms of vision, creativity and virtual world design - that has ever been made. It was EXTREMELY ahead of its time and had concepts that games STILL try and fail to execute well. EQ2, along with WoW ushered in the "next generation" of MMORPGs and is yet another landmark in the genre. Pretty much everything done since has been a clone of the what those two games establish as "the new norm". SOE also created Planetside, which was a big thing for the PvP set. So yeah, SOE has done some great stuff. The also did some stupid stuff such as NGE or the many bad games that they bought from other publishers - MxO, Vanguard, that recent permadeath game ( i forget name), Dragon's Prophet, etc. The stuff SOE develops themselves tends to be quite good. Even DCUO was very decent and has one of the most intersting combat systems i've seen. The game just wasn't particularly new.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
I fully agree with this. SOE has done some interesting stuff over the years - SWG is probably the greatest MMO in terms of vision, creativity and virtual world design - that has ever been made. It was EXTREMELY ahead of its time and had concepts that games STILL try and fail to execute well. EQ2, along with WoW ushered in the "next generation" of MMORPGs and is yet another landmark in the genre. Pretty much everything done since has been a clone of the what those two games establish as "the new norm". SOE also created Planetside, which was a big thing for the PvP set. So yeah, SOE has done some great stuff. The also did some stupid stuff such as NGE or the many bad games that they bought from other publishers - MxO, Vanguard, that recent permadeath game ( i forget name), Dragon's Prophet, etc. The stuff SOE develops themselves tends to be quite good. Even DCUO was very decent and has one of the most intersting combat systems i've seen. The game just wasn't particularly new.
This. If you cross out all the games in SOE's portfolio that were taken from other devs, you're left with a nice group of games. EQ2 is my favorite 'WoW clone' kinda game, PS2 has ruined all other shooters for me, and DCUO is worth a fun run every now and then since I got an All Access pass.
Originally posted by Trudge34 If that's true, sounds like what I've been expecting since they stated they were moving back more towards the roots of EQ. Good news.
It wont work...The reason why is it doesn't even work in EQ anymore.....They had all these things in EQ and got rid of them because the players (well the vocal few anyway) didn't like it and complained until things got changed......They also ahd a good sandbox in SWG and got rid of that never to return again so any mechanics in this game probably are not long term.....Even if they do come out and do the things they are saying, they wont stick with them......Within a year it will be a quest fest themepark.
Originally posted by Trudge34 If that's true, sounds like what I've been expecting since they stated they were moving back more towards the roots of EQ. Good news.
It wont work...The reason why is it doesn't even work in EQ anymore.....They had all these things in EQ and got rid of them because the players (well the vocal few anyway) didn't like it and complained until things got changed......They also ahd a good sandbox in SWG and got rid of that never to return again so any mechanics in this game probably are not long term.....Even if they do come out and do the things they are saying, they wont stick with them......Within a year it will be a quest fest themepark.
Nice crystal ball you got there. Mine says different.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
There was a lot of stuff, you can google most of it. Throughout Vanguard's development he was personally involved in hyping the game up all the time - he told WoW fans that it was the game for them, he told EQ1 fans that it was the game for them, he told the hardcore that it was hardcore and he told the casual that it was "for everyone". If you followed Vanguard beta forums it was like watching a rabid fanboy that has no idea about his game and it just yelling "it's the best, it's the best" at everyone. Most of things he said turned out to be false.
He had a bit of a history because he was heavily involved in EQ1 and had a lot of people's respect. Unfortunately he didn't realize that EQ1 was 10 years before vanguard and that games had evolved since. He was basically trying to remake EQ1 while completely ignoring new technologies and changing player preferences. He also ended up driving the development of the game into the ground so that SOE (of all people) had to come in and rescue it (by buying and funding the remaining development so it was able to launch rather than just scrapped). He also handled all this in an extremely douchebaggy way that resulted in his entire staff being screwed over.
I don't remember most of the details anymore, but people that were paying attention were quite sickened. I'm surprised he's even still around the industry after the awful - and well publically documented - mess he made.
Had VG not launched "half finished", all the things they boasted would have most like come to fruition. It was hands down the best mmo conceptually, and even a blind man could see it from playing it half finished.
Libeling McQuaid or defaming him based on his remarks BEFORE the game lost funding just makes you look like the bad guy, not him.
Originally posted by Trudge34 If that's true, sounds like what I've been expecting since they stated they were moving back more towards the roots of EQ. Good news.
It wont work...The reason why is it doesn't even work in EQ anymore.....They had all these things in EQ and got rid of them because the players (well the vocal few anyway) didn't like it and complained until things got changed......
Right, because everyone leaving EverQuest and making SWG a quest grinder turned out to be GREAT for business, right? Even SoE isn't stupid enough to do that again.
Comments
Except Vanguard is brilliantly designed. It didn't fail because of its features. It failed because of its extremely buggy engine and lack of any kind of financial support.
as a big EQ1 and VG fan all I can say is.....
If Vanguard proved anything it would be that people can be great at one thing and awful at others.
Great game designer, awful project manager and businessman.
Though as everyone else has said he's helping to market the game, despite having little to nothing to do with it.
Oops sorry you are right guess its bed time lol.
Well, you're welcome to believe that if you like. As far as I'm concerned, it failed because it was an unnecessarily tedious version of WoW/EQ2 with terrible character models and really annoying square-based zoning, all of which resulted in nobody wanting to play it.
It did have Diplomacy (unfinished and unintegrated - but a great idea), some very interesting classes (i love you Blood Mage!) and some beautiful cities. Oh and the music in the Elven city was awesome.
But yeah, aside from that it was just painful to play. Same exact cookie-cutter quest hub gameplay, only you now had to spend stupid amounts of time just getting to your quest or if you god-forbid died, you were basically screwed from playing the game for a while.
SWG had been "ahead of its time". Vanguard was stuck 10 years in the past. Guess it doesn't matter since both failed.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
did you poll everyone who played it?
VG is notoriously known as being a sinking ship the moment of release.Its initial unplayability due to server instability and numerous major/minor bugs turned people off.
Your gripes are of preference.The issues I stated above are more of a mainstream problem when it comes to player base.
Your level of revisionist history and false statements are disturbing. Time and time again has shown that Vanguard is incredibly well loved.
Dear god this genre has catered to your make it more convenient kind for 9 years. Please let the original players of the genre pretend that there will eventually be another game for them...some day.
There are soooo many other games out there that have had less vision and suck inifinitely more than VG and EQ1. People that hate SOE have not done their homework. SOE has almost always had a vision that wasn't cookie cutter, like every other large MMO company. Their execution hasn't been great, but the ideas matter more than the execution if we are to have hope for EQN.
I don't think your reasons for why Vanguard failed are accuarate in the slightest. Sure character models weren't very good, but since when does that cause a game to fail? And sure people weren't most fond of loading between chunks, but one of the most talked about and loved aspect of the game was the lack of instancing. It failed because of it's horrible launch, period. Just because you find things that take longer to do than instacomplete tedious doesn't mean everyone else does.
Oh i am sorry that i only started in the genre 15 years ago and missed out on MUDs and MUSHes or whatever it is that you played "at the beginning of the genre" that somehow makes you "more of a veteran" than everyone else.
This is true. There are also just as many or more game out there have more vision and suck infinitely less. EQ1 - along with many other games developed at that time - AO, DAoC, UO, etc. - is a landmark in the genre. Vanguard, along with AoC, WAR, LoTRO and DDO is just another game that failed to be the 'next-generation' after EQ2/WoW. Not that all those games are bad - i played all of them and there were cool parts to all - but they failed to further evolve the genre.
I fully agree with this. SOE has done some interesting stuff over the years - SWG is probably the greatest MMO in terms of vision, creativity and virtual world design - that has ever been made. It was EXTREMELY ahead of its time and had concepts that games STILL try and fail to execute well. EQ2, along with WoW ushered in the "next generation" of MMORPGs and is yet another landmark in the genre. Pretty much everything done since has been a clone of the what those two games establish as "the new norm". SOE also created Planetside, which was a big thing for the PvP set. So yeah, SOE has done some great stuff. The also did some stupid stuff such as NGE or the many bad games that they bought from other publishers - MxO, Vanguard, that recent permadeath game ( i forget name), Dragon's Prophet, etc. The stuff SOE develops themselves tends to be quite good. Even DCUO was very decent and has one of the most intersting combat systems i've seen. The game just wasn't particularly new.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
This. If you cross out all the games in SOE's portfolio that were taken from other devs, you're left with a nice group of games. EQ2 is my favorite 'WoW clone' kinda game, PS2 has ruined all other shooters for me, and DCUO is worth a fun run every now and then since I got an All Access pass.
It wont work...The reason why is it doesn't even work in EQ anymore.....They had all these things in EQ and got rid of them because the players (well the vocal few anyway) didn't like it and complained until things got changed......They also ahd a good sandbox in SWG and got rid of that never to return again so any mechanics in this game probably are not long term.....Even if they do come out and do the things they are saying, they wont stick with them......Within a year it will be a quest fest themepark.
Nice crystal ball you got there. Mine says different.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Had VG not launched "half finished", all the things they boasted would have most like come to fruition. It was hands down the best mmo conceptually, and even a blind man could see it from playing it half finished.
Libeling McQuaid or defaming him based on his remarks BEFORE the game lost funding just makes you look like the bad guy, not him.
There's a lot more people who wanted to love VG,but couldnt due its disastrous release
Hundreds of thousands of people bought Vanguard.
Right, because everyone leaving EverQuest and making SWG a quest grinder turned out to be GREAT for business, right? Even SoE isn't stupid enough to do that again.