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What's people's problem with instances.

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  • ApraxisApraxis Member UncommonPosts: 1,518
    If i want instances i will play a single player/coop game. I do want massive multiplayer experiences. I seriously don't need a server with 1000 or more other players to play instanced content.
  • AdrazahnAdrazahn Member Posts: 26
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by Adrazahn

    I wonder how many people arguing for non-instanced raids either A) never played such a game or B) thrive on hatred, vitriol, and drama. Original EQ had the latter in spades thanks to all the fighting over raid mobs.

    Now non-instanced dungeons (outside of boss mobs) might work. I'd love to see some combination of both. No reason you couldn't have instanced and non-instanced versions of the same dungeon.

    I loved contested raids in EQ, and there was rarely any hatred or vitriol between raiding guilds as they swapped pulls. If it was a tough mob we would congratulate the other guild or vice versa.

    Also Vanguard does open world raiding quite well. Although the low population made that a bit easier.

    Ok, you and me are remembering different games. Lanys T'vyl was a better server than most. We had a calendar set up to let guilds co-ordinate raids, but there were still several large a-hole guilds that didn't abide by it, and that lead to major drama. The same drama and flame wars will infect EQN if they have all open world raids, guaranteed. 

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    If i want instances i will play a single player/coop game. I do want massive multiplayer experiences. I seriously don't need a server with 1000 or more other players to play instanced content.

    QFT.  I think I made the majority of my friendships just running around in those open/public dungeons which were, apparently(according to this thread), filled with nothing but "kill-stealing griefers" image

    I think the real question that needs to be asked is:

    Why do people with completely biased and one-sided viewpoints start threads asking for other people's opinions on the subject?  Is it some type of self-affirmation to find other people to agree with them?  Then ignore any points that people of differing viewpoints present and call them all "griefers"?

  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 2,020
    Originally posted by Lokero
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    If i want instances i will play a single player/coop game. I do want massive multiplayer experiences. I seriously don't need a server with 1000 or more other players to play instanced content.

    QFT.  I think I made the majority of my friendships just running around in those open/public dungeons which were, apparently(according to this thread), filled with nothing but "kill-stealing griefers" image

    I think the real question that needs to be asked is:

    Why do people with completely biased and one-sided viewpoints start threads asking for other people's opinions on the subject?  Is it some type of self-affirmation to find other people to agree with them?  Then ignore any points that people of differing viewpoints present and call them all "griefers"?

    Why do people with completely biased and one-sided viewpoints post in threads telling other people their opinions on the subject? Is it some type of self-affirmation to get other people to agree with them? Then ignore any points that people of differing viewpoints present and call them all "anti-social"?

    image
    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • ManakarManakar Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Sephiroso

    Why do people with completely biased and one-sided viewpoints post in threads telling other people their opinions on the subject? Is it some type of self-affirmation to get other people to agree with them? Then ignore any points that people of differing viewpoints present and call them all "anti-social"?

    Because the OP asked for those exact opinions.. The OP didn't ask for the opinion of everyone. The Op asked for the opinion of the people that don't like instances.. Or did you miss that fact?

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I seriously don't understand how you guys expect there to be any form of decent raiding without instances. You can not do certain mechanics in an open world without doing it in a closed off dungeon.

    You can't allow scripts to run wild in the open world and randomly resetting them. You can't reset a script in an open world without knowing if anyone is there or not.

    Sure you can, easily have a way to tell if there's a player within "x" distance of mob (the server is going to know where a player is) and if there's no player then script reset.

     

    Tell me how you would do a zonewide AE in an open world like in Dreadspire?

    There's certain things that just aren't possible in the open world.

    You're obviously a Post-WoW MMO player so I wouldn't expect you to understand, especially if you look at horrible open world bosses like GW2 to gauge your response from.  However in Vanilla WoW you had the Emerald Dragons, and they were tough and required good strategy so look at it from that angle.  Almost all old school MMO's pre-WoW featured everything in the open world and the boss fights were not any less diverse or easier then what you can place in an instance.  The only downside to an open world Raid boss (if done right) is only a few select people will get access tit them.  But this can be rectified by adding in tons of open world bosses that way if one might be engaged by a Guild, you have access to another.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,739
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by Xthos

     

    It's opinion, some like, some don't....

     

    Some like, some don't.  Some have no clue what they're talking about or what instancing is.  

     

    People say that "instancing makes me feel alone, because it separates me from others and makes me feel like i'm playing a single player game".  

     

    Oh ok.  Let me give you an example.  Vanguard - very famously - had an non-instanced "open-world".   To send me to specific quest NPCs or quest fights - in the absence of instances - Vanguard would teleport my character to the top of a faraway mountain where no other players could reach via regular travel.  What Vanguard did was basically separate me from others and make me feel like i was playing a single player game.   OMG!  I have open-world games because they separate me from others and make me feel like playing a single-player game!

     

    Uhm.  No.  Open world had nothing to do with that design.  The developers decided that this particular quest experience should separate me from others.  If i didn't like that experience, I didn't like it.  I am not going to blame open-world technology that enabled it for the way that the developers chose to implement something.

     

    Instancing can enable hundreds of people to play together and share meaningful experiences.  It can also enable individual experiences.  Small group experiences.  Any amount of people experiences. Chances are, some of those experience you will enjoy and some you won't.    Don't blame the technology, because chances are, virtually every experience you've ever had in an MMO can also happen in an instance (hey, just make a 2nd copy of EVE and suddenly you have 2 instances of EVE and everything that happens in one of them is "instanced") 

    False. I could reach any peak in the game with my flying mount. Also even if i didn't have a flying mount and i had that same quest, it would port me to the same location you were at and guess who would be standing there? YOU WOULD BE STANDING THERE! Why were you standing there? BECAUSE YOU WERE STILL IN THE SAME WORLD AS ME!

     

    You weren't ported to some instance. You were teleported to someplace within the same world. Where others could interact with the same things you could. I feel like im taking crazy pills. 

    Yeah, I was going to say, I do not remember VG having somewhere closed off, in the outside world...and with my flying mount, I could pretty much go everywhere, you can argue if the flying reindeer was proper or not, sure, but I don't remember not being able to go where I wanted with it.

     

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by JIUBHUNNY420

    Im 100% for Instancing, its OVER-INSTANCING thats the real problem. 

     

    I think WoW's original vanilla way of handling instances was perfect.

    Instances for Dungeons and Raid content, and thats it. 

    No instanced PVP - World PVP is much more meaningful and engaging. 

    No instant group finder/DungeonFinder - Whch WoW later added to further suck the life and soul out of the game. 

     

    But now people Over-instance and put you behind a que for everything and channels, and cross-server play. These are all mechanics that Core Original MMO's had, I hate to say an overused phrase but if it aint broke dont fix it. 

    These things and B2P P2P are not the problems, its the lack of originality thats truely hindering this genre.

    You include instance anything (which I am against btw) then you must include dungeon finders and other forms of automated grouping mechanisms.   To not do so leaves the chat channels littered with LFG messages and horrible elitist communities.  Besides not everyone is a leader who wants to take the time to build their own group, nor is everyone an extrovert and do well without socially acceptable means to engage with others.  If your an introvert like myself forming groups and acquiring groups is a daunting prospective and I need that level of help (the dungeon finder) to get groups.

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • XthosXthos Member UncommonPosts: 2,739
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Distopia

    Everything old is good everything new is bad, that's the vibe I get when reading through these threads.

    Instancing (in dungeons) is all about tailoring a piece of content toward a specific experience (immersion). As well as ensuring everyone gets a fair shot at a piece of content.

    Open dungeons are controlled by the biggest guilds, at least those of importance to gear. By doing so they control the market on rare items, they grow richer because of it. It's not hard to figure out why they'd want non-instanced dungeons.

    Now we're getting down to reality and nobody likes that.  The reality is contested content leaves the majority frustrated with a powerful minority in control of the most valuable resources.

    I'm not going to pay for someone else to have a great gaming experience at my expense.  Somehow, I doubt I'm alone in this thinking.

    Yeah....wrong....It is very easy to add mechanics into the open world dungeons, random spawns, place holders that then can pop any of the named in a dungeon, and roamers that could randomly be something also....It doesn't have to be in a fixed location, and even old EQ started to do some of these things over 10 years ago.

     

    I could say the same thing, you wanting an instance, you are trying to have a great gaming experience for yourself, at my expense...IT will be what it is, everyone is giving opinions, no need to play the victim.

     

  • AldersAlders Member RarePosts: 2,207

    While i prefer open world boss encounters, i have yet to see them implemented properly to avoid the obvious shit that always happens with them.

    I have no desire to put up with $2,000 claiming bots and packet sniffers like we had in FFXI.  I don't even want to think how much that garbage has evolved since i stopped playing.

  • mos0811mos0811 Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by mos0811
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    Open dungeon all the way.  If I wasn't fast enough, powerful enough to get the sword first then I don't deserve it.  Weapons and armor are not a right, but a gift, and not everyone is going to get the gift.

    But then in many open dungeons there are litterally hundreds of adventurers running around, cursing at all and eberyone for mob stealing and such, ruining the last bit of immersion for me is the fact that we need to stand in line to get our chance at the finall boss.

    I think the way SWTOR handles instances is quite nice ..  Without loading times,... If ypu replace  the bright red blocks and place the green access somewhere on the ground, phasing could really work well and natural

    I'm not thinking about having a "final" boss.  You run a dungeon for the fun and you might run into a hard mob here or there.  We don't need bosses, and even if we did, why are they always in one place; why couldn't a boss be anywhere in the world.  If you are looking at my response and thinking that I have in anyway referenced a PvE game, then let me clarify; open dungeons are great because PvP can happen there.

  • Storm_CloudStorm_Cloud Member UncommonPosts: 401

    Isn't there poll on this? If not, someone should add one.

     

    Do you want instances in Everquest Next?

    Yes -

    No-

    That should end this discussion. There doesn't have to be a why, just accept the result. :)

    C'mon, ppl, make it happen! I'm calling it a night, but I'll vote tomorrow.  :)

     

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.
    Thanks for explaining it to me, I knew there was an ulterior motive why some hate instances. Griefers, I should have known, those people were the reason behind instances in Everquest in the first place.
    I've only gotten through 50 posts thus far, so excuse me if this was already brought up.

    First, jesteralways is way off base. I am sure some players who do not like instances want the lowbies there to grief them, but this is not a high percentage.

    Instances give a player:
    1) An area of their own, all to themselves. All the Mobs are theirs. All the items are theirs. If you happen to be in a group, then you have a multi-player area where all is shared amongst the few.
    2) A story. In instances, a player can engage in a story and possibly "change the world", at least in that area or instance.

    Instances take away:
    1) The MMO aspect of MMOs. No longer is the game Massively Mulit-player Online.
    2) The rest of the world. The rest of the world does not exist while inside the instance. The only chat is with the people also in the instance or friends sending tells. Maybe Guildchat, too.

    For me, instances are good if a player desires story and world change. I seldom seek either of these things out in an MMO. Single player games simply do this so much better than MMOs, in my opinion and experience.

    Simply put, instances for me take me out of the MMO and places me in a single player game, a small multi-player game at best. I do not despise instances, I just think they are a cheap way of handling certain scenarios.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    These problems are not caused by the world bosses in the first place, but by the way the loot and the respawning work. In GW2 the world bosses scale and everyone who participated in the fight gets his own loot. I don't want to say that the bosses in GW2 don't have their own flaws, especially that the fight always ends with a big zerg. But I believe they can be done right. For example by introducing battle tactics for large groups like a shield wall.

    This^.

    Anet instanced everything in GW1, they isolated the players so they didn't have to deal with griefers/ninja-looters or quest objective camping, for GW2 they went the other way around and removed the limitation that caused these problems and stopped isolating the players from each others. The end result is a more co-operative playerbase. And you know what, other MMOs are following now (or even did it before GW2 announced their systems?). Both old and new.

    As for the OP. I don't like instances in MMOs. First, I hate waiting in front of a loading screen , second I think they affect the gameworld immersion negatively. Getting inside an instanced dungeon or raid just feel like you are playing a lobby-game and this is the next "mini-game" to do on the list. I personally feel that MMORPG should be virtual world, not content checklists. 

    I remember GW2 being HEAVILY instanced...what game were you playing?

    It's a bit late to answer this, but whatever. I wasn't saying that GW2 didn't have instances. I was comparing the design to GW1 where everything beside outposts is instanced to the party so they don't have to deal with mob-stealing and ninja-looters versus GW2 where zones aren't instanced to the party only (they have a population cap though), but you still don't have to deal with mob-stealing and ninja-looters because Anet create a co-operative gameplay as opposed to a competitive one.

    Which mean that the existence of instances to stop negative gaming experience aren't needed if the game is designed to be co-operative as opposed to competitive.

    Instance for zone because of population size is related to the engine and server infrastructure, not gameplay. And instances for dungeons and story is a themepark concept, sandbox don't need scripted stories anyway.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Instancing take players out of the game world and places them in their own little world. Everyone should inhabit the same space. Not wisked off to a instance to run a "safe" group.
    Why? If the rest of the world is standing outside, why can't I "enter the house (instance)" to get away from them?
    Do you hear the outside world when in your "instanced" home? Does the phone ring or the doorbell chime? Could others enter your house if they really wanted to?

    I don't think that is a very good analogy...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Instances give a player:
    1) An area of their own, all to themselves. All the Mobs are theirs. All the items are theirs. If you happen to be in a group, then you have a multi-player area where all is shared amongst the few.
    2) A story. In instances, a player can engage in a story and possibly "change the world", at least in that area or instance.

    Instances take away:
    1) The MMO aspect of MMOs. No longer is the game Massively Mulit-player Online.
    2) The rest of the world. The rest of the world does not exist while inside the instance. The only chat is with the people also in the instance or friends sending tells. Maybe Guildchat, too.

    Uhm.. that just isn't correct.  Instances CAN do that.  But they don't necessarily.  I've been in plenty of instanced shared dungeons.   Wheere i wasn't on my own, the mobs weren't all mine and the item's weren't all mine.   There were other groups there, other people.  The only difference was that the number of people was limited to reasonable number, so that the place wasn't completely swarmed - which is something that would completely ruin immersion.   

     

    As far taking away... they take away nothing.  Just because you're in a room behind a closed door doesn't mean the world doesn't exist outside that room.  You can still talk with other people, they can join you where you are or you can go out to them.  Nothing is cut off.

     

    You CAN do what you say with instancing.  But you can also do it with a completely open world - just send people to a place others can't reach (or can't reasonably reach like in EVE).    I

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by knightaudit
    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?


    First of all, which ONE of you would get the sword if the Elf did not snatch it? How many would be left swordless?

    Second, that is the reason to play Massively Multi-player Online games. What you seek is a single player, or at best a small multi-player game where everything is yours, or your friends.

    What I am reading a lot of here in this thread is basically, "I DON'T LIKE OTHER PLAYERS IN MY GAMES!" Am I wrong here? Dealing with others is what MMOs is all about. The good AND the bad parts.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Instances give a player:
    1) An area of their own, all to themselves. All the Mobs are theirs. All the items are theirs. If you happen to be in a group, then you have a multi-player area where all is shared amongst the few.
    2) A story. In instances, a player can engage in a story and possibly "change the world", at least in that area or instance.Instances take away:
    1) The MMO aspect of MMOs. No longer is the game Massively Mulit-player Online.
    2) The rest of the world. The rest of the world does not exist while inside the instance. The only chat is with the people also in the instance or friends sending tells. Maybe Guildchat, too.

    Uhm.. that just isn't correct.  Instances CAN do that.  But they don't necessarily.  I've been in plenty of instanced shared dungeons.   Wheere i wasn't on my own, the mobs weren't all mine and the item's weren't all mine.   There were other groups there, other people.  The only difference was that the number of people was limited to reasonable number, so that the place wasn't completely swarmed - which is something that would completely ruin immersion.   As far taking away... they take away nothing.  Just because you're in a room behind a closed door doesn't mean the world doesn't exist outside that room.  You can still talk with other people, they can join you where you are or you can go out to them.  Nothing is cut off.You CAN do what you say with instancing.  But you can also do it with a completely open world - just send people to a place others can't reach (or can't reasonably reach like in EVE).
    Can you use "shared" and "instance" in the same sentence? I am confused...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by azzamasin
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    Tell me how you would do a zonewide AE in an open world like in Dreadspire?

    There's certain things that just aren't possible in the open world.

    You're obviously a Post-WoW MMO player so I wouldn't expect you to understand, especially if you look at horrible open world bosses like GW2 to gauge your response from.  However in Vanilla WoW you had the Emerald Dragons, and they were tough and required good strategy so look at it from that angle.  Almost all old school MMO's pre-WoW featured everything in the open world and the boss fights were not any less diverse or easier then what you can place in an instance.  The only downside to an open world Raid boss (if done right) is only a few select people will get access tit them.  But this can be rectified by adding in tons of open world bosses that way if one might be engaged by a Guild, you have access to another.

    How am I a post-WoW player when I post about pre-WoW content all the time.

    And all that stuff about WoW, I never played it, so I have no idea what you're blabbering about.

    I have no idea what "vanilla WoW" or Emerald dragons are.

  • strykr619strykr619 Member UncommonPosts: 283
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Deolus

    I don't recall any of the planes being instanced. If they were then that was done after I left the game. I remember that the bosses respawned every few days and that you have to talk to other guilds to arrange which of them them would be running it.

    Plane of Time is fully insanced. A and B. It happened during PoP, some of the expansion might have not been fully ready at the start though, but this was the case with all expansions, they were still changing things on launch often.

    PoTime as an instance WAS broken until after GoD came out. That's why servers were on rotations. 

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    Can you use "shared" and "instance" in the same sentence? I am confused...

     

    Yes.. example... Antonica in EQ2.  Antonica is a massive continent - it has quests, trees, dungeons, NPCs, you know.. all those thing you can find out in the open world.  When the population of Antonica gets above a certain level, a second instance of Antonica spawns so that the the place isn't overrun and becomes ... well.. whatever the opposite of "immersive" is.  

     

    The same technology can (and has been) used on a single dungeon or an a single room.  It can be used to limit the the number of people in the zone to a single group or a single person or fifty total.  Whatever is appropriate.

     

    If developers ONLY design dungeons to be limited to 6 people, they can use instancing to accomplish that or they can do it in the open world.    If what you want is shared dungeons, what you should be worried about is developers making the choice to only make their dungeons 6 person.   Not what technology they use to accomplish it.

     

    This is what i'm trying to get through to all the people on this "instancing is evil" train, who don't even understand what instancing does or how it can be used.

     

    You can have an instance for a thousand people.  Or ten thousand.   All instancing does it allow to limit it to whatever number you decided is appropriate and then create a new copy once the population demand exceeds the limit. 

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    Can you use "shared" and "instance" in the same sentence? I am confused...
    Yes.. example... Antonica in EQ2.  Antonica is a massive continent - it has quests, trees, dungeons, NPCs, you know.. all those thing you can find out in the open world.  When the population of Antonica gets above a certain level, a second instance of Antonica spawns so that the the place isn't overrun and becomes ... well.. whatever the opposite of "immersive" is.  The same technology can (and has been) used on a single dungeon or an a single room.  It can be used to limit the the number of people in the zone to a single group or a single person or fifty total.  Whatever is appropriate.If developers ONLY design dungeons to be limited to 6 people, they can use instancing to accomplish that or they can do it in the open world.    If what you want is shared dungeons, what you should be worried about is developers making the choice to only make their dungeons 6 person.   Not what technology they use to accomplish it.This is what i'm trying to get through to all the people on this "instancing is evil" train, who don't even understand what instancing does or how it can be used.You can have an instance for a thousand people.  Or ten thousand.   All instancing does it allow to limit it to whatever number you decided is appropriate and then create a new copy once the population demand exceeds the limit. 
    I am sure some are confusing the two, but I am not. An "Instance" to me, and what I think Waterlilly is asking about, is the single player instance like dungeons and personal story quest settings.

    Let's get on the same page, please.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    I am sure some are confusing the two, but I am not. An "Instance" to me, and what I think Waterlilly is asking about, is the single player instance like dungeons and personal story quest settings.

     

    Let's get on the same page, please.

    It doesn't really matter what is an instance "to you".  What an instance is a copy of an area that is created when the population limit is reached on the previous copy.   No more, no less.   What that population limit is, what the entrance requirements are - all that is completely flexible by the developer.  

     

    People assuming that it is something they don't like and then using the general term is what is causing the confusion and drama in the first place. 

     

    People are making the assumption that just because there are single person or single-group instances, that this somehow precludes the existences of shared dungeons and areas.  This is not correct.   Different kinds of content call for different kinds of population limits to make them fun and keep it immersive.   Instancing is just a tool, it's been used poorly in the past and it's been used very effectively.   

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  • DudehogDudehog Member Posts: 112
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
     

    People are making the assumption that just because there are single person or single-group instances, that this somehow precludes the existences of shared dungeons and areas.  This is not correct.   Different kinds of content call for different kinds of population limits to make them fun and keep it immersive.   Instancing is just a tool, it's been used poorly in the past and it's been used very effectively.   

    No one is really making that assumption. 

     And it's just your opinion that instancing has been used effectively in the past by games. I disagree and can't name a single game that I think uses instancing well.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by arieste

    Originally posted by AlBQuirky
    I am sure some are confusing the two, but I am not. An "Instance" to me, and what I think Waterlilly is asking about, is the single player instance like dungeons and personal story quest settings.Let's get on the same page, please.
    It doesn't really matter what is an instance "to you".
    My apologies for clarifying *my* point. Your disdain is duly noted.


    Originally posted by arieste
    What an instance is a copy of an area that is created when the population limit is reached on the previous copy.   No more, no less.   What that population limit is, what the entrance requirements are - all that is completely flexible by the developer.  People assuming that it is something they don't like and then using the general term is what is causing the confusion and drama in the first place. People are making the assumption that just because there are single person or single-group instances, that this somehow precludes the existences of shared dungeons and areas.  This is not correct.   Different kinds of content call for different kinds of population limits to make them fun and keep it immersive.   Instancing is just a tool, it's been used poorly in the past and it's been used very effectively.
    Interesting. I was unaware that the dungeons in GW2 only popped when a population limit occurred. Or that my trip to the pirate isle in GW2 for my personal story only occurred when a population was exceeded. I guess literally you're right. A population of 1 causes this "overflow" to happen...

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


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