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What's people's problem with instances.

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  • grimfallgrimfall Member UncommonPosts: 1,153
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Manakar
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    POP was not instanced from the start.. I am sure that came in an update well after POP was released.. but i cant remember it was bloody ages ago..

    I stopped playing EQ shortly after POP came out.. I didnt see instances back then.. If they patched in instances and expansions after that had instancs then that sucks....

    He's talking about PoTime. I think it was the first time Everquest introduced an instance into the game. It was not patched in.

    There was no PoTime content at all when the expansion was released, so yes, it was patched in.  It behaved just like a regular raid zone when it was first patched with content.  I know, because my guild had to ask permission of the #1 guild to raid it.  

     

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_The_Planes_of_Power

    After Omens of War was released, Plane of Time was changed and turned into an instance, meaning everyone had their own lock-out timer and set of spawns, this allowed more people to have access to higher end-content and equipment.

    I think that timing is off on that, it was close to or just after the release of GoD, if memory serves.

    Back to the OP, though.

     

    LDoN sucked.  No one plays those things now.  We only used to do them because it was new content and to get the augs.

    GoD is widely reviled as the most hated EQ expansion.

    Talk about rose colored glasses...

    A little instancing can be alright.  10% of PVE content is instance, I can live with.  More than that is just lame.

  • grimfallgrimfall Member UncommonPosts: 1,153
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    Open.

    Next question.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Everything old is good everything new is bad, that's the vibe I get when reading through these threads.

    Instancing (in dungeons) is all about tailoring a piece of content toward a specific experience (immersion). As well as ensuring everyone gets a fair shot at a piece of content.

    Open dungeons are controlled by the biggest guilds, at least those of importance to gear. By doing so they control the market on rare items, they grow richer because of it. It's not hard to figure out why they'd want non-instanced dungeons.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • mos0811mos0811 Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by ArzhAngel

    Simple:

    Any form for Instances are for singleplayer game, and have nothing to do in a mmorpg.

    The point of instances is to control the population of an area so that the area provides the optimal experience to that population.  You would never need one in a single-player game as the population of a single-player game is always 1.  Instances- pretty much by definition - are a tool for multiplayer games with large populations (i.e. MMOs).  

    Instances are a crutch so devs don't have to do proper network code, or put proper hardware resources towards the problem.  The whole point of an mmoRPG is to get thousands of players together in the same place; not to code it so that thousands of players can be in smalls groups in hundreds of different instances.

    This is also goes hand in hand with how many polygons are drawn and why mmoRPGs should NOT be eye candy.  Single player games are great for new graphics, but mmoRPGs need to keep their draw count low on purpose to allow for hundreds-thousands of people to be in the same area at the same time.

    Just because a tool was created doesn't mean it should be used.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by Xthos

     

    It's opinion, some like, some don't....

     

    Some like, some don't.  Some have no clue what they're talking about or what instancing is.  

     

    People say that "instancing makes me feel alone, because it separates me from others and makes me feel like i'm playing a single player game".  

     

    Oh ok.  Let me give you an example.  Vanguard - very famously - had an non-instanced "open-world".   To send me to specific quest NPCs or quest fights - in the absence of instances - Vanguard would teleport my character to the top of a faraway mountain where no other players could reach via regular travel.  What Vanguard did was basically separate me from others and make me feel like i was playing a single player game.   OMG!  I have open-world games because they separate me from others and make me feel like playing a single-player game!

     

    Uhm.  No.  Open world had nothing to do with that design.  The developers decided that this particular quest experience should separate me from others.  If i didn't like that experience, I didn't like it.  I am not going to blame open-world technology that enabled it for the way that the developers chose to implement something.

     

    Instancing can enable hundreds of people to play together and share meaningful experiences.  It can also enable individual experiences.  Small group experiences.  Any amount of people experiences. Chances are, some of those experience you will enjoy and some you won't.    Don't blame the technology, because chances are, virtually every experience you've ever had in an MMO can also happen in an instance (hey, just make a 2nd copy of EVE and suddenly you have 2 instances of EVE and everything that happens in one of them is "instanced") 

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • azzamasinazzamasin Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I really don't get this hate towards instances. MMORPG.com now has an article "What we don't want in EQnext: Instances".

    I don't know who this "we" is. People who never played EQ?

    The best expansions in Everquest were the heavily instanced ones.

    LDON-OOW (proving grounds trials+pizza instances)-DoN-DoD (amazing expansion, also the best looking one imo)

    Let alone all the raid instances, which were actually a huge improvement over the mob ganking and drama caused on the server.

    GoD group instances, one of the most fun and rewarding content you could find. Ask anyone what the most fun group content was and many will say LDON, DoD, MPG trials and the freeport Badge Arena battle. All instanced.

    I have no idea why some people don't want instances. If done right, they are great.

    Instances detract from what happens in the world and it forces the majority of players to sit around a central hub city and LFG for their next instance.  It also destroys any sense of community because no one interacts in a real setting.

     

    There are many reasons to hate on instances and I could write a book about it, but it would be a very boring read. image

    Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!

    Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!

    Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!

    image

  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613

    It is just boring to run an instance, because it never changes.

    Open Dungeons change with the player around, sometimes you can run straight for the boss, since all trash is down. Sometimes you can rescue other groups and make new friends, sometimes you wipe and another group comes along and ressurects you, making new friends,...

    you know, open worlds / dungeons really promote making new friends and social behavior. 

    Id have no issue with instancing if it limited dungeons to around... dunno... 50 people and started a new one after that. But let my group fight along other groups if we so wish.

    Also, forgot who said that, but instancing does NOT improve the area for me to have the best experience. It effectivly removes the chance at giving me a good experience.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    It doesnt have to be camping if the open world dungeons have public event/quests like GW2 or FATES in FFXIV and with public objectives inside the open world dungeons to trigger the boss events, not saying all the bosses must be triggered to spawn.  I dont see why modern mmos cant have BOTH instances AND open dungeons.  And even if the open dungeons have public events in them I think there should be optional areas within those dungeons with rare boss spawns that arent public and require player groups to camp and compete against each other for the kill for those old school style players.  And I think even new players would enjoy that and see why old school fans loved that stuff because they had stories to tell from those kinds of experiences from classic mmos.

    Instances would be a great way to tell a story and raiding gameplay while the open dungeons with public events/public bosses and rare bosses are a great way to keep the feeling of a virtual world.

  • mos0811mos0811 Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    Open dungeon all the way.  If I wasn't fast enough, powerful enough to get the sword first then I don't deserve it.  Weapons and armor are not a right, but a gift, and not everyone is going to get the gift.

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by mos0811
     The whole point of an mmoRPG is to get thousands of players together in the same place

    Even if that is so, MMOs don't have thousands of players, they have hundreds of thousands of players.  

     

    But really, i am not so sure about the thousand player experience, in my 15 years, i've experienced very few things in a MMORPG that benefited from having a thousand players in the same place.

     

    I've had some excellent experiences with a few hundred people, but after 200-300, it all starts to blend pretty much.

     

    The vast majority of great MMO experiences that I've had have been with less than 100 people, probably with less than 50. 

     

    What you need thousands of players for is to inhabit the world.   To know they're there, to work the economy, etc.  I don't need to see them all at the same time.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
     
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    Because when your in your instanced "house" it removes you from the game world completely thus reducing the population. Remember its not just you in your "house". Its hundreds maybe thousands of people in there "house" ir instance. Reducing town, city and open world populations. Making the world feel empty and unpopulated. 

    When i go into my RL house, it reduces the street population and makes the streets feel empty.  But it doesn't reduce the world's population.  The same with an in-game house.  Just because i'm in my house, doesn't make it one less people in the world.  People can still call me (chat with me), visit me in my house or ask me to come outside and play.   Just because I'm in my house doesn't mean i'm gone from the world.  And my neighbours can see my light on in their friends list and be comforted by the fact that I'm there.  

     

    Not really sure where this analogy was going...

    "House in this sense in any instance. using the word house was just to describe an instance. ( see the conversation i was having with the other poster) So yes when you and 1000 other people are in your house or "instance" as it were, you are reducing the world pop because you are no longer in the same world. You have been removed and placed into another world.... the instance. 

     

    That was where the analogy was going... 

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by mos0811
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    Open dungeon all the way.  If I wasn't fast enough, powerful enough to get the sword first then I don't deserve it.  Weapons and armor are not a right, but a gift, and not everyone is going to get the gift.

    In most cases the big guilds control who gets what in an open dungeon environment, it becomes rigged, not a matter of survival of the fittest.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    I want it to happen in an instanced dungeon.  Chances are, if there 600,000 people in that cave all standing around a sword, it would no longer be dark, i would no longer be able to see the pedestal from a distance or to see it glow because everyone one of those 600,000 people would have their torch out.  Also, Yoink's grabbing of the sword would be slowed down to a crawl due to the terrible framerate of rendering 600,000 characters in the same tiny area.

     

    On the other hand, if the Cave had multiple instances, each one limited to an appropriate number of adventurers - let's say no more than 50 (it's a big cave), then my adventuring party would still find a relatively atmospheric cave, would be able see the sword from a distance in the dark, and our villain Yoink would actually have some shadows to hide in.

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

    Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
    Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
    Currently Playing: ESO

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Member RarePosts: 5,361
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
     
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by xAPOCx

    Because when your in your instanced "house" it removes you from the game world completely thus reducing the population. Remember its not just you in your "house". Its hundreds maybe thousands of people in there "house" ir instance. Reducing town, city and open world populations. Making the world feel empty and unpopulated. 

    When i go into my RL house, it reduces the street population and makes the streets feel empty.  But it doesn't reduce the world's population.  The same with an in-game house.  Just because i'm in my house, doesn't make it one less people in the world.  People can still call me (chat with me), visit me in my house or ask me to come outside and play.   Just because I'm in my house doesn't mean i'm gone from the world.  And my neighbours can see my light on in their friends list and be comforted by the fact that I'm there.  

     

    Not really sure where this analogy was going...

    "House in this sense in any instance. using the word house was just to describe an instance. ( see the conversation i was having with the other poster) So yes when you and 1000 other people are in your house or "instance" as it were, you are reducing the world pop because you are no longer in the same world. You have been removed and placed into another world.... the instance. 

     

    That was where the analogy was going... 

    Not really because someone from outside can still break in uninvited and loot your stuff so its not truly a private instance

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 506

    Open World and Open Dungeons only work if mob leveling is the primary advancement method. Since there is then a reason to kill trash and keep paths clear.

    Instancing works if quests are the main method.

    I for one, want a game with less quest and more killing.

  • mos0811mos0811 Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by mos0811
     The whole point of an mmoRPG is to get thousands of players together in the same place

    Even if that is so, MMOs don't have thousands of players, they have hundreds of thousands of players.  

     

    But really, i am not so sure about the thousand player experience, in my 15 years, i've experienced very few things in a MMORPG that benefited from having a thousand players in the same place.

     

    I've had some excellent experiences with a few hundred people, but after 200-300, it all starts to blend pretty much.

     

    The vast majority of great MMO experiences that I've had have been with less than 100 people, probably with less than 50. 

     

    What you need thousands of players for is to inhabit the world.   To know they're there, to work the economy, etc.  I don't need to see them all at the same time.  

    There are a lot of levels working here; first I agree that a lot of fun I have had in games are when 50-100 people are fighting in sieges/banes in Shadowbane.  Second I have seen 1k people in EvE together for alliance wars, and yes sometimes it's a slideshow, but I would still prefer open world over instancing.

    I agree the world needs players to be alive.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by xAPOCx
    Instancing take players out of the game world and places them in their own little world. Everyone should inhabit the same space. Not wisked off to a instance to run a "safe" group.

     

    Why? If the rest of the world is standing outside, why can't I "enter the house (instance)" to get away from them?

    cause others CANT follow you into the house. The inside of the house is REMOVED from the WORLD. 

     

    Why do they need to follow me into the house? Especially if it's on a PvE server? How does my entering the house affect the other people any more then if I logged off for a while?

    Because when your in your instanced "house" it removes you from the game world completely thus reducing the population. Remember its not just you in your "house". Its hundreds maybe thousands of people in there "house" ir instance. Reducing town, city and open world populations. Making the world feel empty and unpopulated. 

     

    And just a fyi. I don't want to follow you into your house. Just like i don't follow people into their house for no reason in RL. But when i drive up the street and see my  neighbors lights on it makes me feel good.

    But then all the non instanced housing zones i know where allways empty, noboddy walking there, as people where either offline or out adventuring.  

    Instanced housing prevents the world from becomming cluttered with empty houses.. And adds a lot to the immersion i get. The EQ2 solution was in my book the best housing so far.

    I would like to have both systems of housing. But make it so the EQ2 apartment style housing more realistic. Making stand alone apartments in major cities. Like BD housing? Not sure on all the deets on BD housing but it looked like non instanced apartments. 

    As for the world being cluttered by empty homes. I dont see it that way. To me they are things that players built and now inhabit the living world. If a house is left behind or abandoned. That how should be put up for auction and let someone that wants the space buy it and use it. 

     

    With all that said. When i used the word house. I was referring to ALL instances. The fellow i was in talks with used the word house ( instance ) so i just stuck with his talking point lol. Perhaps i should have been more clear and just said instances from the start. 

    image

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by mos0811
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    Open dungeon all the way.  If I wasn't fast enough, powerful enough to get the sword first then I don't deserve it.  Weapons and armor are not a right, but a gift, and not everyone is going to get the gift.

    But then in many open dungeons there are litterally hundreds of adventurers running around, cursing at all and eberyone for mob stealing and such, ruining the last bit of immersion for me is the fact that we need to stand in line to get our chance at the finall boss.

    I think the way SWTOR handles instances is quite nice ..  Without loading times,... If ypu replace  the bright red blocks and place the green access somewhere on the ground, phasing could really work well and natural

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by knightaudit

    Let me pose to you this ... You enter a dank dark cave, you and your fellow adventurers stay close as you move in the dark, the feel of the place is one lost to time. In the distance you see a pedistal and on it a sword the glows amid the darkness.

    Something rushes past you and Yoink grabs the sword, it is an Elf who is far more powerful than you, then he runs past you leaving you in the dark ... swordless

    So tell me who wants an open dungeon or an instanced one?

    I still want an open dungeon. 

     

     

    image

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105

    I seriously don't understand how you guys expect there to be any form of decent raiding without instances. You can not do certain mechanics in an open world without doing it in a closed off dungeon.

    You can't allow scripts to run wild in the open world and randomly resetting them. You can't reset a script in an open world without knowing if anyone is there or not.

    You can't do a zonewide AE like in dreadspire without doing it in an instance.

    And you might think Kunark is a great expansion, and I agree, but the raids in EQ pre-GoD were pitiful tank and spank raids.

     

    It wasn't until they started to use instances with GoD that raids became interesting, since they now could run advanced scripts.

    It wasn't until they started to use group instances with MPG and GoD that group dungeons became interesting.

    Guk and COM and Grieg's were very fun for the community, but they were also one-dimensional boring dungeons that didn't run any scripts, had no strategy to them, nothing. It was instances with KT  that introduced FUN and difficulty into the dungeons.

  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599

    Instances have their places and can be good for providing a way for the developers to give players specific story content without being interrupted by other players.

    However instances can be overused, and EQ2 is a PERFECT example of TERRIBLE instancing.

    In the open world instances ruin immersion, when you have multiple "instances" of the same city/open world area it creates a feeling of disconnect between the players. You talk to someone and want to meet up or go find a friend? IN EQ you could just say where you were, in town, etc and they'd come to you.

    IN EQ2 you had to give your instance, people had to hop into another instance. It just breaks the feeling of the world and makes it feel hollow.

    Housing being instanced was also a HUGE killer. Nothing "breaks" housing in terms of a social interaction faster then making housing instanced.

    In UO/SWG with open world housing where it wasn't instanced, this was soooooo much more worthwhile. PEople would randomly stop by your house, your friends/guild mates could just wander by and visit or you could do the same with them. You'd be out exploring and come across a crafters shop and stop by to buy gear, with them usually there crafting or doing things, talk to them and chat up.

    That was all missing in EQ2 because of instancing.

    As I said, instances have their place, but it's mainly for very FEW and tightly controlled situations where the dev wants to present a story to that specific player, otherwise it shouldn't be instanced.

     

     

  • ChuckanarChuckanar Member UncommonPosts: 210
    What I miss in MMO's is the fact of how HUGE the world was in EQ. Nowadays you are expected to be lazy and just by whining you get stuff for free. I honestly miss the days of chatting with people while I bartered for  SoW so I could run from one end of the world to almost the other side so I could join my clan in a few hours for some dungeon runs. Kids now expect to be able to just port everywhere and get anything. There is no longer any satisfaction for attaining your Fungal armor or such. That to me is what is ruining gaming culture. To many punks that dont want to earn their loot or other asshats that just want to be able to buy it. Just my opinion so take it as you wish.
  • StilerStiler Member Posts: 599
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I seriously don't understand how you guys expect there to be any form of decent raiding without instances. You can not do certain mechanics in an open world without doing it in a closed off dungeon.

    You can't allow scripts to run wild in the open world and randomly resetting them. You can't reset a script in an open world without knowing if anyone is there or not.

    Sure you can, easily have a way to tell if there's a player within "x" distance of mob (the server is going to know where a player is) and if there's no player then script reset.

     

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by Stiler
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I seriously don't understand how you guys expect there to be any form of decent raiding without instances. You can not do certain mechanics in an open world without doing it in a closed off dungeon.

    You can't allow scripts to run wild in the open world and randomly resetting them. You can't reset a script in an open world without knowing if anyone is there or not.

    Sure you can, easily have a way to tell if there's a player within "x" distance of mob (the server is going to know where a player is) and if there's no player then script reset.

     

    Tell me how you would do a zonewide AE in an open world like in Dreadspire?

    There's certain things that just aren't possible in the open world.

  • xAPOCxxAPOCx Member UncommonPosts: 869
    Originally posted by Distopia

    Everything old is good everything new is bad, that's the vibe I get when reading through these threads.

    Instancing (in dungeons) is all about tailoring a piece of content toward a specific experience (immersion). As well as ensuring everyone gets a fair shot at a piece of content.

    Open dungeons are controlled by the biggest guilds, at least those of importance to gear. By doing so they control the market on rare items, they grow richer because of it. It's not hard to figure out why they'd want non-instanced dungeons.

    Wrong. VG had OPEN "instances" with lockout timers on bosses. No camping APW for raid lootz. 

    Also Instance dungeons are not immersive. scripted fights are so 2004. 

    Also, and this is just me, but this ensuring everyone gets a fair shot at a piece of content is bullshit. 

    Its why we now have awards for people that just show the hell up for competition. Sorry but i don't believe in the "everyone should get a medal" system. 

    Poor design is poor design. If the game allows for market monopolizing then thats the design of the game. 

    image

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