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What's people's problem with instances.

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  • KarbleKarble Member UncommonPosts: 750

    Instances are ok for certain reasons.

    A good reason would be if a game dungeon was so big that you and your group/raid could not hope to clear it in a session of 4 to 6 hours. This would make instancing a good thing, since the progress you have made in the instance can be saved similar to if you were playing a pen and paper D&D campaign.

    Other that that I don't really like the idea of instances in general.

    Also in the same dungeon (if it's that big), you could have 6 or 10 parties doing various parts of the dungeon content and, both competing with and assisting each other with mobs.

    Also I disagree with you about which was the best expansion.

    The game itself and the first 5 expansions were the best in my opinion.

    There were fantastic dungeons that were huge and not instanced mostly.

    The open world had several areas that were a sort of dungeon themselves in the way the factions, mob placements etc worked.

    There were class specific armors that, when you clicked, would cast a free spell from your class. These were usually deep in Karnor's Castle which could be tackled with a group, but you could easily get overwhelmed from a pull...so having multiple groups around to take extra mobs was nice. 

    Scars of Velious continued the excellent design and expanded with a One Time killable dragon in Sleepers Tomb. There were huge giants in Kael Drakkal to face off against, Temple of Veeshan was crazy fun. Tower of Frozen Shadows. The first access to the planes of Gods......plane of Growth and plane of Mischief. Velkitor's Labrynth......so much good content.

    The Shadows of Luclin was an amazing masterpiece as well. There were many zones that required faction and several steps to be able to get to the final boss and slay them. Once done this would give you a piece of the over all key needed to get to another place which ended up in a crazy zone called Vex Thal. This was the point in the game they introduced The Bazaar and The Nexus. These allowed for players to set their char up as a vendor in the game and leave pc on all day so others could come to their char and look through bags and purchase items for whatever value you had decided was fair.

    The Planes of Power....

    This took tiered content and raiding very seriously. Once again following the "key" formula, they had something called flagging. To get a character into any of the higher tier zones, a player had to talk with npcs and kill bosses in the previous tier planes. It was full raiding and good fun. They introduced some things in this expansion that were also questionable like the POK with portals to everywhere. This broke part of the massiveness of the previous content and hurt part of the value of a few classes in the game. But the concept of the high end God content was impressive.

    The Legacy of Ykesha

    This added very unique collection of areas to the game. The fights were fun and the areas gave players from 30 to 60 something fun to do. It was also quite dangerous there as well.

    Almost all of what I have listed here is what I would call.....the best of EQ

    After this, the other expansions added very little in terms of game play. Sure they extended the quest, added more levels, more unlocks, more AA, instancing etc...

    But I would say that instancing as a whole felt very un-mmo to me. It's almost like choosing to just be alone in a setting where you are surrounded by others who are alone as well. Very ghost town feeling there. What's the point of playing a game with thousands of players if you only want to play by yourself or with a few other people. There are multi-player games that have this built into them as a foundation.

    For myself and most people I know....a zone or a non-zoned world is best. Not the instanced zone where you are all alone.

  • BearKnightBearKnight Member CommonPosts: 461
    Originally posted by Jadedangel1
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by azarhal

    This^.

    Anet instanced everything in GW1, they isolated the players so they didn't have to deal with griefers/ninja-looters or quest objective camping, for GW2 they went the other way around and removed the limitation that caused these problems and stopped isolating the players from each others. The end result is a more co-operative playerbase. And you know what, other MMOs are following now (or even did it before GW2 announced their systems?). Both old and new.

    As for the OP. I don't like instances in MMOs. First, I hate waiting in front of a loading screen , second I think they affect the gameworld immersion negatively. Getting inside an instanced dungeon or raid just feel like you are playing a lobby-game and this is the next "mini-game" to do on the list. I personally feel that MMORPG should be virtual world, not content checklists. 

     

    I remember GW2 being HEAVILY instanced...what game were you playing?

     

    Thank you, I thought I was the only one on here who remembered this. It really ruined the main story quests for me, they were awful, especially when added with those cheesy cut scenes, and made me not want to play it after awhile.

    GW2 was 100% instanced, and actually are instances upon instances. It was a total mess to be honest with how absolutely everything is instanced and a "faded" instance into another one. It was pretty gross to be honest.

  • TheJodaTheJoda Member UncommonPosts: 605
    I agree with the OP. And I want to hear train to zone in!!!

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • mos0811mos0811 Member Posts: 173
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I really don't get this hate towards instances. MMORPG.com now has an article "What we don't want in EQnext: Instances".

    I don't know who this "we" is. People who never played EQ?

    The best expansions in Everquest were the heavily instanced ones.

    LDON-OOW (proving grounds trials+pizza instances)-DoN-DoD (amazing expansion, also the best looking one imo)

    Let alone all the raid instances, which were actually a huge improvement over the mob ganking and drama caused on the server.

    GoD group instances, one of the most fun and rewarding content you could find. Ask anyone what the most fun group content was and many will say LDON, DoD, MPG trials and the freeport Badge Arena battle. All instanced.

    I have no idea why some people don't want instances. If done right, they are great.

    Instances take people out of the world, and makes it feel dead; this is for either side PvP or PvE.  In a PvP game instances allow players to escape potential death.  Instancing was once a way to allow for a lot of players to be in the same place at the same time without causing too much lag.  Now days with internet upgrades instancing is a crutch that developers use to go the easy route.  I am in the no instancing camp.

  • KarbleKarble Member UncommonPosts: 750
    Originally posted by Karble

    Instances are ok for certain reasons.

    A good reason would be if a game dungeon was so big that you and your group/raid could not hope to clear it in a session of 4 to 6 hours. This would make instancing a good thing, since the progress you have made in the instance can be saved similar to if you were playing a pen and paper D&D campaign.

    Other that that I don't really like the idea of instances in general.

    Also in the same dungeon (if it's that big), you could have 6 or 10 parties doing various parts of the dungeon content and, both competing with and assisting each other with mobs.

    Also I disagree with you about which was the best expansion.

    The game itself and the first 5 expansions were the best in my opinion.

    There were fantastic dungeons that were huge and not instanced mostly.

    The open world had several areas that were a sort of dungeon themselves in the way the factions, mob placements etc worked.

    There were class specific armors that, when you clicked, would cast a free spell from your class. These were usually deep in Karnor's Castle which could be tackled with a group, but you could easily get overwhelmed from a pull...so having multiple groups around to take extra mobs was nice. 

    Scars of Velious continued the excellent design and expanded with a One Time killable dragon in Sleepers Tomb. There were huge giants in Kael Drakkal to face off against, Temple of Veeshan was crazy fun. Tower of Frozen Shadows. The first access to the planes of Gods......plane of Growth and plane of Mischief. Velkitor's Labrynth......so much good content.

    The Shadows of Luclin was an amazing masterpiece as well. There were many zones that required faction and several steps to be able to get to the final boss and slay them. Once done this would give you a piece of the over all key needed to get to another place which ended up in a crazy zone called Vex Thal. This was the point in the game they introduced The Bazaar and The Nexus. These allowed for players to set their char up as a vendor in the game and leave pc on all day so others could come to their char and look through bags and purchase items for whatever value you had decided was fair.

    The Planes of Power....

    This took tiered content and raiding very seriously. Once again following the "key" formula, they had something called flagging. To get a character into any of the higher tier zones, a player had to talk with npcs and kill bosses in the previous tier planes. It was full raiding and good fun. They introduced some things in this expansion that were also questionable like the POK with portals to everywhere. This broke part of the massiveness of the previous content and hurt part of the value of a few classes in the game. But the concept of the high end God content was impressive.

    The Legacy of Ykesha

    This added very unique collection of areas to the game. The fights were fun and the areas gave players from 30 to 60 something fun to do. It was also quite dangerous there as well.

    Almost all of what I have listed here is what I would call.....the best of EQ

    After this, the other expansions added very little in terms of game play. Sure they extended the quest, added more levels, more unlocks, more AA, instancing etc...

    But I would say that instancing as a whole felt very un-mmo to me. It's almost like choosing to just be alone in a setting where you are surrounded by others who are alone as well. Very ghost town feeling there. What's the point of playing a game with thousands of players if you only want to play by yourself or with a few other people. There are multi-player games that have this built into them as a foundation.

    For myself and most people I know....a zone or a non-zoned world is best. Not the instanced zone where you are all alone.

    Sorry about the text wall. didn't realize until after I hit send....lol.

  • Damage99Damage99 Member UncommonPosts: 202
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Damage99

    PoP was not instanced.  .  

    For the 3rd time. Plane of Time was instanced.

    Not at release.  It wasnt until 2004

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest:_The_Planes_of_Power

    After Omens of War was released, Plane of Time was changed and turned into an instance, meaning everyone had their own lock-out timer and set of spawns, this allowed more people to have access to higher end-content and equipment.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    That is not true at all...

    Most of these people?

    Do you realize how many griefers would there be in the world?

    Agree with Caldrin that you are way off.

    i have played many ffa pvp/pve mmorpg and i have very good idea how many griefers can emerge from non-instanced ffa pvp/pve situation. and i was not talking about the "world", only talking about those who hates instancing. and most of these people want to aggrieve others in the name of "compete others to get loot". i have seen aggrieving  at it's best in a certain sandbox game people so love. i would rather be called 'carebear" than have my precious fun time being ruined by worthless piece of trash people who has less value than cockroach in real life.   

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848

    Do people confuse "instanced dungeons" with "instanced zones" when discussing instances. Some of the arguments lead me to believe they do.

     

     

  • Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    I mean no offense, but your assessment of the general population of players against instancing is completely wrong. The griefers and the gankers are really the minority of our population. The players against instancing are actually just sick of running through empty game worlds, easy repeated content, and retarded mobs that stand around in bunches for us to kill. There is a huge difference between wanting an open world with no instances and wanting free for all full loot pvp.  So please, continue playing WoW or RIFT with it's static enemies and easy anticipated content and don't try to change what could be a great game for us.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521

    Instancing AND zoning make the world seem smaller.  Even Smed said they would have liked to make both EQ and EQ2 zoneless but couldn't (or now wouldn't).

     

    I personally like phasing if there needs to be some boundry between a dungeon or other zones like housing.  At least make it seem like it's all one world, even if it isn't.

  • observerobserver Member RarePosts: 3,685
    • Instance:  Multiple copies of a zone or dungeon.
    • Instanced Zone:  Usually public when the primary zone is full.
    • Instanced Dungeon:  Multiple copies of a dungeon, usually private for groups.

    Pros

    • Private challenge for friends or guildies.
    • Avoids griefing.
    • Avoids mob-tagging.
    • Loot incentives for going back.
    • etc.
    Cons
     
    • Immersion breaking
    • Socialization diminished
    • Has a feeling of a lobby-based game
    • etc.
     
    There are many pros and cons, for and against, instancing.  We need to remember here, that instancing came about because of the public nuisances that people encountered, especially in EQ1.  When camping actually meant camping in EQ1, people would literally sit in the same spot for 5+ hours for a mob spawn.  Some group would come at the last minute and "steal" it from the other groups waiting.  This is one of the reasons why instanced dungeons came about.
     
    Disclaimer: I never played EQ1, but i know someone who did and i would always see them camping. lol.
  • RattenmannRattenmann Member UncommonPosts: 613

    I also think instances are bad.

    A MMO should be about people interacting with each other, competing for spawns is not as bad as some make it out to be. So you are not always getting your shiny boss epic without competition? But you actually interacted with a real person and not only with a static npc. Thats alot better.

    Instances make every MMO a single RPG and if i want a single RPG, im just gonna play one.

    On a different note about open dungeons vs instances: Made the best ingame friends because of open dungeons. I saved their life, they saved my ass... we split a room together and killed a hard boss with 2 groups that where both too weak on their own, then split loot and added some peeps to our friendlists.

    The best memories come from NON INSTANCED worlds and dungeons. Id pay 25-40 dollar per month, just to get a game like this again. Either that, or quit MMOs, because no more MMOs released since 10 years.

    MMOs finally replaced social interaction, forced grouping and standing in a line while talking to eachother.

    Now we have forced soloing, forced questing and everyone is the hero, without ever having to talk to anyone else. The evolution of multiplayer is here! We won,... right?

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by jonesing22
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    I mean no offense, but your assessment of the general population of players against instancing is completely wrong. The griefers and the gankers are really the minority of our population. The players against instancing are actually just sick of running through empty game worlds, easy repeated content, and retarded mobs that stand around in bunches for us to kill. There is a huge difference between wanting an open world with no instances and wanting free for all full loot pvp.  So please, continue playing WoW or RIFT with it's static enemies and easy anticipated content and don't try to change what could be a great game for us.

    Keep dreaming that SOE will provide you a great sandbox Free2Play game. i wish you luck. 

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Originally posted by observer
    • Instance:  Multiple copies of a zone or dungeon.
    • Instanced Zone:  Usually public when the primary zone is full.
    • Instanced Dungeon:  Multiple copies of a dungeon, usually private for groups.

    Pros

    • Private challenge for friends or guildies.
    • Avoids griefing.
    • Avoids mob-tagging.
    • Loot incentives for going back.
    • etc.
    Cons
     
    • Immersion breaking
    • Socialization diminished
    • Has a feeling of a lobby-based game
    • etc.
     
    There are many pros and cons, for and against, instancing.  We need to remember here, that instancing came about because of the public nuisances that people encountered, especially in EQ1.  When camping actually meant camping in EQ1, people would literally sit in the same spot for 5+ hours for a mob spawn.  Some group would come at the last minute and "steal" it from the other groups waiting.  This is why instanced dungeons came about.
     
    Disclaimer: I never played EQ1, but i know someone who did and i would always see them camping. lol.

    See, this is what used to happen all the time in EQ1. 10 hours of camping+killing trash to spawn the boss went to shit because of people like them. 10 hours of guild  camping went to shit; man it was so awesome; it felt so good(/sarcasm).  if i ever find those bastards i am going to beat them up and let my dog rape them. 

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • MardyMardy Member Posts: 2,213

    Unfortunately people have this utopian idea that old school open world is going to work all so well.  I've seen enough of open world to know unless a game is created like Guild Wars 2, where the game is designed to be inclusive, open world just breeds problems.  In GW2, anybody can join in a fight, and everybody gets rewarded for participating.  This is why open world design works for GW2...it's why they're able to spawn big bad mobs in the open and no one complaints one bit about anything.  It was always "the more the merrier" attitude when I played GW2.  No one cared if you're in their guild, in their clique group, the more the merrier.

     

    Now in EQ's design, where it's exclusive, where you have such things as who tagged what mobs get the kill design.  Or where a group outdoing another group's dps gets the kill design.  Or raid guild vs raid guild epeen competition design.  Or people willing to do anything to skip camping for hours for something, when they could let you camp it and do the work, then train you and ks you when named pops design.  I've had enough of open world in Everquest universe, it's why instances were created, and why SOE continued to create instances in the EQ franchise.  Even SOE saw the evil they created.

     

    In order for me to embrace open world design in EQ universe again, SOE must change the way they design the game. Otherwise it breeds the worst kinds and good people will eventually leave and not bother with the hassle of having to deal with all the issues of ksing, training, verbal abuse, etc.. pretty much the worst behavior possible in an online game.  

     

    Times have changed, people have changed.  People today won't put up with crap like that anymore.  Back when Everquest was the only large scale MMORPG, it was possible for SOE to push people's buttons.  Today, well good luck if SOE goes back to the old school design.  Like I said, if they have learned and would design the game's mob tagging, reward sharing, all inclusive design like Guild Wars 2, then open world non-instances will work fine.  But if they make the game like the current EQ1 and EQ2, then open world will be the death of EQN.

    EQ1-AC1-DAOC-FFXI-L2-EQ2-WoW-DDO-GW-LoTR-VG-WAR-GW2-ESO

  • Originally posted by arieste
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    I think the argument that instances break immersion is just silly. What is it...you need to have every other player in your line of site like some over protective mom?

    Yes dammit.  Let's take an example:  i'm "the chosen one", being sent to a "secret hideaway" to track down a "monster that no one has been able to find".  

     

    I get to this secret hideaway... unless i find 10,000 other players there, all packed so tightly that i can't can't see the walls and all talking about the things they'd like to do to my mother, i simply would not feel "immersed" in this fictional world.  I mean, what kind of secret hideaway is actually secret? mirite?  

     

    Unless EQN has all 500k-1m of its players all standing next to each other in the first town of the game, it'll be simply unimmersive.  

    Okay a few points you're not seeing. These point are more relying on the fact EQN will be more like EQ. You're thinking EQN will have a single starting town will a single starting area for 10k players on one server but that is the newer MMOs plaguing your mind. You're thinking that anyone in EQN will be a 'chosen one'. That is also a symptom of newer MMOs. It's really weird how I never, even after all those times in Crushbone, saw a 'yo mama' joke used in chat until i played WoW. There was a share of trolls in EQ but they didn't last long because there was a community in each zone. You couldn't queue for a dungeon and troll a group from a random server. In EQ, the trolls received a /ignore from everyone. Then they left the game because they couldn't accomplish anything on their own.

    Shadowguy64, it's really nothing to do with being able to see other players. It's more the fact that what you're doing can affect other players. You don't get this fresh new bunch of mobs to kill every time you walk through a zone. Enemies aren't static and just waiting for your group to slaughter them.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686

    Nothing wrong with instances, they where actual the first answer to spawn and bosscamping, and they are the main reason WoW made MMOs go mainstream and far beyound the EQ crowds drinking beer behind their compuers and bragging about how epic their 3 day wayt was.

    So far the only other answers seen are phasing and GW2s dynamic events that actually allow everyone to share the fight with the boss that just got triggereed by some zone wide activities.  

     

    if there is one thing i dont want to see in EQnext then its spawncamping, and 20 minutes sitting down to regain health or mana.  That and Faey. 

     

    Personally i think EQnext will a be a hevilly phased and somewhat instanced Sanbox..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • Originally posted by Mardy

    Unfortunately people have this utopian idea that old school open world is going to work all so well.  I've seen enough of open world to know unless a game is created like Guild Wars 2, where the game is designed to be inclusive, open world just breeds problems.  In GW2, anybody can join in a fight, and everybody gets rewarded for participating.  This is why open world design works for GW2...it's why they're able to spawn big bad mobs in the open and no one complaints one bit about anything.  It was always "the more the merrier" attitude when I played GW2.  No one cared if you're in their guild, in their clique group, the more the merrier.

     

    Now in EQ's design, where it's exclusive, where you have such things as who tagged what mobs get the kill design.  Or where a group outdoing another group's dps gets the kill design.  Or raid guild vs raid guild epeen competition design.  Or people willing to do anything to skip camping for hours for something, when they could let you camp it and do the work, then train you and ks you when named pops design.  I've had enough of open world in Everquest universe, it's why instances were created, and why SOE continued to create instances in the EQ franchise.  Even SOE saw the evil they created.

     

    In order for me to embrace open world design in EQ universe again, SOE must change the way they design the game. Otherwise it breeds the worst kinds and good people will eventually leave and not bother with the hassle of having to deal with all the issues of ksing, training, verbal abuse, etc.. pretty much the worst behavior possible in an online game.  

     

    Times have changed, people have changed.  People today won't put up with crap like that anymore.  Back when Everquest was the only large scale MMORPG, it was possible for SOE to push people's buttons.  Today, well good luck if SOE goes back to the old school design.  Like I said, if they have learned and would design the game's mob tagging, reward sharing, all inclusive design like Guild Wars 2, then open world non-instances will work fine.  But if they make the game like the current EQ1 and EQ2, then open world will be the death of EQN.

    This design you're speaking of sounds a lot like a system where everybody wins. Should everyone get a trophy, even if they were the lowest contributor to a kill? It COULD work, if the rewards scale to what someone contributed. Although, I despised the loot system from GW2. The all random drops(diablo-ish) loots system is so dead to me. I want certain bosses to drop certain gear at a certain drop rate. This can not be done with instances. Unless you make the gear bind on pickup, which is another bad mechanic, imo. 

  • Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Nothing wrong with instances, they where actual the first answer to spawn and bosscamping, and they are the main reason WoW made MMOs go mainstream and far beyound the EQ crowds drinking beer behind their compuers and bragging about how epic their 3 day wayt was.

    So far the only other answers seen are phasing and GW2s dynamic events that actually allow everyone to share the fight with the boss that just got triggereed by some zone wide activities.  

     

    if there is one thing i dont want to see in EQnext then its spawncamping, and 20 minutes sitting down to regain health or mana.  That and Faey. 

     

    Personally i think EQnext will a be a hevilly phased and somewhat instanced Sanbox..

    Go play WoW. Go play RIFT. Go play GW2. Go play almost any MMO that has released in the last 6 years. Oh, wait, they're all nearly dead or you're tired of them. Please tell me why. 

     

  • Originally posted by jesteralways
    Originally posted by observer
    • Instance:  Multiple copies of a zone or dungeon.
    • Instanced Zone:  Usually public when the primary zone is full.
    • Instanced Dungeon:  Multiple copies of a dungeon, usually private for groups.

    Pros

    • Private challenge for friends or guildies.
    • Avoids griefing.
    • Avoids mob-tagging.
    • Loot incentives for going back.
    • etc.
    Cons
     
    • Immersion breaking
    • Socialization diminished
    • Has a feeling of a lobby-based game
    • etc.
     
    There are many pros and cons, for and against, instancing.  We need to remember here, that instancing came about because of the public nuisances that people encountered, especially in EQ1.  When camping actually meant camping in EQ1, people would literally sit in the same spot for 5+ hours for a mob spawn.  Some group would come at the last minute and "steal" it from the other groups waiting.  This is why instanced dungeons came about.
     
    Disclaimer: I never played EQ1, but i know someone who did and i would always see them camping. lol.

    See, this is what used to happen all the time in EQ1. 10 hours of camping+killing trash to spawn the boss went to shit because of people like them. 10 hours of guild  camping went to shit; man it was so awesome; it felt so good(/sarcasm).  if i ever find those bastards i am going to beat them up and let my dog rape them. 

    In my experience, the people who came at the last minute and stole the mob someone was camping were called out. They were usually removed from whatever guild they were in. People wouldn't group with them. They were added to so many /ignore lists that the loot they just stole didn't matter because they're about to quit the game. 

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130

    Vanguard had non-instanced big dungeons. I remember that I had to run down all the way into the dungeon to see if it was camped by anone to do my quest, asking how long they would be there, wasting hours not playing.

    Give me instanced dungeons anytime over that.

  • PrenhoPrenho Member Posts: 298
    Hope so, 100% OW, no instances. If you don't like it, come back to WoW or any other WoWclone there are hundreds of them right now.
  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by Kiyoris

    Vanguard had non-instanced big dungeons. I remember that I had to run down all the way into the dungeon to see if it was camped by anone to do my quest, asking how long they would be there, wasting hours not playing.

    Give me instanced dungeons anytime over that.

     

    One must wonder why quest mobs would be on long timers. Did it make it more fun or more "immersive" /  frustrating?

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Member RarePosts: 9,686
    Originally posted by jonesing22
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Nothing wrong with instances, they where actual the first answer to spawn and bosscamping, and they are the main reason WoW made MMOs go mainstream and far beyound the EQ crowds drinking beer behind their compuers and bragging about how epic their 3 day wayt was.

    So far the only other answers seen are phasing and GW2s dynamic events that actually allow everyone to share the fight with the boss that just got triggereed by some zone wide activities.  

     

    if there is one thing i dont want to see in EQnext then its spawncamping, and 20 minutes sitting down to regain health or mana.  That and Faey. 

     

    Personally i think EQnext will a be a hevilly phased and somewhat instanced Sanbox..

    Go play WoW. Go play RIFT. Go play GW2. Go play almost any MMO that has released in the last 6 years. Oh, wait, they're all nearly dead or you're tired of them. Please tell me why. 

     

    Why this reaction?  Do you recognise the uggly truth in my words and realise this game might not actually be what you want? 

     

    Spawncamping and bosscamping like in Eq where the most retarded mechanics born in a time before developers even realised what problems would arise in MMO endgame zones.  The dissapearing of these charming campsides was one of the first really good evolutions in MMO history..

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • ReskenResken Member Posts: 10

    Instances are absolutely awful. Some people have already explained really well as to why. To sum it all up though is that it breaks the immersion of the game. I play MMO games because I want to feel lost in a virtual fantasy -world-. Instances make me feel like I'm playing a single player -game-.

     

    The only people that seem to enjoy instances are people that want instant gratification. While I can understand why people want that, it's not why I play MMO games.

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