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What's people's problem with instances.

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  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Damage99

    PoP was not instanced.  .  

    For the 3rd time. Plane of Time was instanced.

    Yes but this was added in like a year after the release of POP I am sure.. as i stopped playing not long after..

     

    Taken from wikipedia.

     

    "Years later, updates made the Plane of Time B an instanced zone, allowing multiple groups of players to take on these encounters, simultaneously."

     

    But i do of course know wikipedia is not 100% truth lol.. but i really cant remember that far back.

  • MasterfuzzfuzzMasterfuzzfuzz Member Posts: 169
    Originally posted by Caldrin
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Damage99

    PoP was not instanced.  .  

    For the 3rd time. Plane of Time was instanced.

    Yes but this was added in like a year after the release of POP I am sure.. as i stopped playing not long after..

    ^

  • MasterfuzzfuzzMasterfuzzfuzz Member Posts: 169
    Originally posted by Kiyoris
    Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

    My guess is they did it because Ykesha was garbage and people just stayed focused on PoP.

    It was to fix camp spawning and griefing. PoP is around when Sony introduced play nice policy. Instancing can fix a lot of problems, if it was not for instancing, Everquest would have died.

    Doubtful. It did fine until that point having the same mechanics and less mobs. There were way more raids in PoP than the previous two. There was more stuff to do for the top guilds. I just think SoE got tired of people whining.

  • SengiSengi Member CommonPosts: 350
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    These problems are not caused by the world bosses in the first place, but by the way the loot and the respawning work. In GW2 the world bosses scale and everyone who participated in the fight gets his own loot. I don't want to say that the bosses in GW2 don't have their own flaws, especially that the fight always ends with a big zerg. But I believe they can be done right. For example by introducing battle tactics for large groups like a shield wall.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 10,606
    I dont think instances are the problem. I think the problem is a lot of the low budget MMOs that have come out with zones so small it takes away from the feeling of exploring a large world. Feels more like going from box to box. 
  • CaldrinCaldrin Member UncommonPosts: 4,505
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    That is not true at all...

  • HedeonHedeon Member UncommonPosts: 997

    dont really mind instances, but do mind when they are abused - when more or less all progression goes through instances it is just no longer really a MMO anymore to me, but certainly do not care much for fighting over main spawns either, doubt alot find it fun to sit for a few hours for some rare spawn, just to see some randoms or botters take it from you.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily Member UncommonPosts: 3,105
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    Thanks for explaining it to me, I knew there was an ulterior motive why some hate instances. Griefers, I should have known, those people were the reason behind instances in Everquest in the first place.

  • quseioquseio Member UncommonPosts: 234

    some instanceing isnt bad id rather  have some instanceing than one huge server instances are great for telling a story, how are you going to find out the rest of the story if  xlorb the magificents book of prohecy of doom is camped  constantly mega servers suck, theres no server pride, u cant isolate one shard from the others as easy

     

    instance is esp good for ugc which im sure eqnext will have if not at start eventually

    instanceing allows things that would piss off ofther players say that someone wants to flood  the karanas under a tidalwqave, because  certtain spawns only spawn then, you can do that ina instance wo   peeing in other peoples cheerios

  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Member UncommonPosts: 187

    WoW was my first MMO (as shameful as that is to admit on this board), so you'd think I'd agree with the OP, but I'm just the opposite. I agree with others that instances break immersion and really separate you from the rest of the game world. Having played a few other open world games, I enjoy having to compete with others to get things (even though I'm not into PvP, and usually play solo), and not knowing what other players will be around in the area when you get there. Having an open world makes the game feel more alive, and adds different variables to game play. With instances its the complete opposite, and more like an isolated bubble you can't wait to get out of.

  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by jesteralways
    Most of these people who don't like instances are simply "grievers". they gank lowbies wherever they find them, gank players when they are fighting a world boss, kill stealing and getting the last hit on mob for xp and loot etc. the reason why instancing came into mmo was to counter these kind of grievers. so now these grievers who have no value or whatsoever in life and decided to annoy people in game; have no value in game too. thus this massive hate on instance. you will see they will give lots of reason like "instancing takes away social feature" or "it doesn't feel like mmo because instancing removes lots of players" etc but in their heart all they want is to grief others. is to waste precious time of people who came into game to have some fun and to forget the grief of real life. but these grievers have to  ruin others fun time because their life is totally messed up. it is their way of saying "i exist even though i am worthless piece of garbage". i will take instancing like WoW or Rift or any other mmo that feature story based light instancing these days over these piece of trash.

    Not true at all. I don't care for instancing, and I am a strictly PvE player. I can't stand griefing and always advocate for policies against them. And I understand why instancing was put in to begin with. But still I feel that too many instances in a game takes away from the world, and cuts into social aspects of it. I've played in a few other open world games where everyone helped wach other out, and it made the experience nicer. Once you get used to something like that, you realize instancing just doesn't give you the same feeling.

    But I do understand what you are saying, and you are right, griefers are a big problem that can bring the system down.

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by DAS1337
     

    Sandboxes are supposed to reward you for your hard work and patience.  The harder you work, the greater the reward.  Themeparks are about instant gratification.  So if you've only played themeparks, or you've grown up where WoW was your first MMO, you may not understand the concept of 'immersion'.  Or you simply may not care about it, I have a friend that can really care less, so I get it.  I personally don't feel the same way, but I get it.  Then again, my first MMO was Ultima Online.  Followed by EQ and DAOC.

    If the age in your profile is true, I was playing MMORPGs when you were still a kid and I was an adult since a long time.

    Just to say - don't argue based on assumptions about other people - stick to facts.

    Thanks.

    I just dropped my rose colored glasses long ago. I remember those MMORPG pioneers with nostalgia, yes, but I'm also aware of some of the most awful mechanics they had, including camping a spawn for ages just to see it stolen by someone who just arrived at the spot, reaping you not only of the reward, which is secondary, but also ruining the fight you were looking forward to.

    While I agree with what you are saying about the bad mechanics.  We have come to the age where "stealing" spawns isn't really possible anymore(if the devs aren't idiots).  We've reached that point now where everyone involved can get credit.

    So, alot of the bad mechanics that people hated about open-world have been cleaned up and can be bypassed in newer systems.

    The way I, personally, see it nowadays, is open world with proper restrictions/kill credit/etc. is the way to go.  I don't know if SoE will have the foresight to implement the appropriate "good neighbor" systems, but they are certainly available in today's gaming.

    I am one of those people who hates instances with a passion(hate zone lines too SoE!).  But, I will say, that there are a few cases where it's kind of nice to have(trials and things like that).  Overall, though, I prefer fully opened and shared worlds.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Member CommonPosts: 1,122

    There is no problem with instances. The problem is with people who think they know what a sandbox game actually is.

     

    The reality is that nobody will ever agree on what a "sandbox" game is. People fill in the blanks with their own definitions and chaos ensues because nobody can agree.

    EQNext has made the unfortunate misstep in simply breeding hype by using buzzwords but giving no detail allowing gamers to fill in their own banks with hopes and dreams. I expect an massive sundering once more is revealed. The majority of the negativity will come from players who think they know what a sandbox game is and will bash any game that fails to fit their own self-invented definition.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    I like seamless worlds and I'd kill for a game that doesn't have instanced dungeons, UO and DAOC dungeons were the best.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848

    I think the argument that instances break immersion is just silly. What is it...you need to have every other player in your line of site like some over protective mom?

     

    An instance provides a brief group centric activity that allows players to enjoy advance boss battles, story, and loot without the negatives of being griefed by other groups. It's temporary.

     

    I suppose if the game allowed equal loot of be earned in other ways, such as rare open world mobs, then there shouldn't be any problem. Those that enjoy instances can go enjoy them with their friends, and those that don't can camp their rare mobs of choice. It doesn't have to be either/or.

  • ManakarManakar Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Waterlily
    Originally posted by Masterfuzzfuzz

    Competition over mobs and spawns are good for mmos. [mod edit]

    [mod edit]

    For every griefer there were thousands that did not grief people in EQ.. I liked the people that were polite.. The people that waited for groups to open and waited for their turn and asked who was camping what..etc etc. The guilds that worked out schedules with other guilds and used calendars to do so.. I liked how it made you feel part of that world that you shared with others.. More so than griefers it fostered cooperation, politeness, friendship (as in meeting new people), communication, thoughtfulness.. etc etc etc.. You take for granted the positive aspects of there not being instances and you only focus on the negatives... a few people and guilds griefed others.. While mostly people were polite because there were not instances to hide in or instance hop to...

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    An instance provides a brief group centric activity that allows players to enjoy advance boss battles, story, and loot without the negatives of being griefed by other groups. It's temporary.

    Good synopsis. You should be a designer.

  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    These problems are not caused by the world bosses in the first place, but by the way the loot and the respawning work. In GW2 the world bosses scale and everyone who participated in the fight gets his own loot. I don't want to say that the bosses in GW2 don't have their own flaws, especially that the fight always ends with a big zerg. But I believe they can be done right. For example by introducing battle tactics for large groups like a shield wall.

    This^.

    Anet instanced everything in GW1, they isolated the players so they didn't have to deal with griefers/ninja-looters or quest objective camping, for GW2 they went the other way around and removed the limitation that caused these problems and stopped isolating the players from each others. The end result is a more co-operative playerbase. And you know what, other MMOs are following now (or even did it before GW2 announced their systems?). Both old and new.

    As for the OP. I don't like instances in MMOs. First, I hate waiting in front of a loading screen , second I think they affect the gameworld immersion negatively. Getting inside an instanced dungeon or raid just feel like you are playing a lobby-game and this is the next "mini-game" to do on the list. I personally feel that MMORPG should be virtual world, not content checklists.

     

  • JustsomenoobJustsomenoob Member UncommonPosts: 880

    Because i want to go places and have people be there with stuff going on.

     

    I don't want to assemble a group, clear the place from start to finish,then leave.

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by azarhal
    Originally posted by Sengi
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    These problems are not caused by the world bosses in the first place, but by the way the loot and the respawning work. In GW2 the world bosses scale and everyone who participated in the fight gets his own loot. I don't want to say that the bosses in GW2 don't have their own flaws, especially that the fight always ends with a big zerg. But I believe they can be done right. For example by introducing battle tactics for large groups like a shield wall.

    This^.

    Anet instanced everything in GW1, they isolated the players so they didn't have to deal with griefers/ninja-looters or quest objective camping, for GW2 they went the other way around and removed the limitation that caused these problems and stopped isolating the players from each others. The end result is a more co-operative playerbase. And you know what, other MMOs are following now (or even did it before GW2 announced their systems?). Both old and new.

    As for the OP. I don't like instances in MMOs. First, I hate waiting in front of a loading screen , second I think they affect the gameworld immersion negatively. Getting inside an instanced dungeon or raid just feel like you are playing a lobby-game and this is the next "mini-game" to do on the list. I personally feel that MMORPG should be virtual world, not content checklists. 

     

    I remember GW2 being HEAVILY instanced...what game were you playing?

  • ManakarManakar Member UncommonPosts: 110
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

     

    I remember GW2 being HEAVILY instanced...what game were you playing?

     

    Maybe his only experience with MMOs is through GuildWars? Btw I hated the way group content played in GW2.. I hated the fact there was no holy trin when it came to groups.. Eww eww ewww.. And yes there were alot of instanced endgame dungeons in GW2..

  • ariestearieste Member UncommonPosts: 3,309
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64

    I think the argument that instances break immersion is just silly. What is it...you need to have every other player in your line of site like some over protective mom?

    Yes dammit.  Let's take an example:  i'm "the chosen one", being sent to a "secret hideaway" to track down a "monster that no one has been able to find".  

     

    I get to this secret hideaway... unless i find 10,000 other players there, all packed so tightly that i can't can't see the walls and all talking about the things they'd like to do to my mother, i simply would not feel "immersed" in this fictional world.  I mean, what kind of secret hideaway is actually secret? mirite?  

     

    Unless EQN has all 500k-1m of its players all standing next to each other in the first town of the game, it'll be simply unimmersive.  

    "I’d rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."

    - Raph Koster

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  • Jadedangel1Jadedangel1 Member UncommonPosts: 187
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by azarhal

    This^.

    Anet instanced everything in GW1, they isolated the players so they didn't have to deal with griefers/ninja-looters or quest objective camping, for GW2 they went the other way around and removed the limitation that caused these problems and stopped isolating the players from each others. The end result is a more co-operative playerbase. And you know what, other MMOs are following now (or even did it before GW2 announced their systems?). Both old and new.

    As for the OP. I don't like instances in MMOs. First, I hate waiting in front of a loading screen , second I think they affect the gameworld immersion negatively. Getting inside an instanced dungeon or raid just feel like you are playing a lobby-game and this is the next "mini-game" to do on the list. I personally feel that MMORPG should be virtual world, not content checklists. 

     

    I remember GW2 being HEAVILY instanced...what game were you playing?

     

    Thank you, I thought I was the only one on here who remembered this. It really ruined the main story quests for me, they were awful, especially when added with those cheesy cut scenes, and made me not want to play it after awhile.

  • BearKnightBearKnight Member CommonPosts: 461
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    It's called either "nostalgia" or "masochism". Some people seem to think camping a spawn for 12+ hours just to see a late coming guild "ninja" it and you ending with nothing at all is good mechanics.

    Instancing doesn't have to be as extensive as in WoW and clones. It can be done better, like with dungeons being open and only boss rooms being instanced / phased.

    I disagree completely. It has to do with world permanence, and not wanting everything given to you on a silver platter. If you're camping something for 12hrs+ it isn't being forced on you. In EQ1 if you camped something for more than 3hrs it was by YOUR choice, as either an accomplishment that many others would never achieve, or for that special rare loot that only 1% of the population ever obtained. 

     

    What you're talking about is one of the primary reasons EQ past POP went downhill sharply into a boring soul-less infestation of a game :(.

  • OfficialFlowOfficialFlow Member Posts: 111
    Originally posted by Waterlily

    I really don't get this hate towards instances. MMORPG.com now has an article "What we don't want in EQnext: Instances".

    I don't know who this "we" is. People who never played EQ?

    The best expansions in Everquest were the heavily instanced ones.

    LDON-OOW (proving grounds trials+pizza instances)-DoN-DoD (amazing expansion, also the best looking one imo)

    Let alone all the raid instances, which were actually a huge improvement over the mob ganking and drama caused on the server.

    GoD group instances, one of the most fun and rewarding content you could find. Ask anyone what the most fun group content was and many will say LDON, DoD, MPG trials and the freeport Badge Arena battle. All instanced.

    I have no idea why some people don't want instances. If done right, they are great.

    its not the instancing its the loading screens imho

    as long as other people can enter it and the loading screen is hidden i dont mind

    lol look at Fable 3 its not even MMORPG and it is ruined with so many loading screens and invisible walls

    *edit

    Tera almost did it right with the Pegasus riding system where they go through a transfer sequence in the form of "magical stargates" while the area loads without a loading screen

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