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Why is one weapon not enough?

WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Space, VAPosts: 38Member
Well I am here to tell you it is!

 

I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

 

 

 

It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

It could simply never work!

 

What if you like tons of animations?

In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

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Comments

  • ElRenmazuoElRenmazuo Alexandria, VAPosts: 4,552Member Uncommon
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.
  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Space, VAPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by tkreep

    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style.
    You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.
  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style. You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.

    So, if all it does is change the graphic of your toon, then why should there even be customization of your character's looks?

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  • vmopedvmoped Athens, GAPosts: 1,708Member
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style. You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.

    I beg to differ.  In quite a few mmo's, weapon affects the character's playstyle.  A bow plays different than a two handed-hammer, etc...  It is more than graphics.  It is playstyle and customization.  In other words: options.  Last I checked, more options in a game is better for everyone.

    Cheers!

    MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S

  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    One argument against 1 single weapon comes from one of WildStar's cousins via NCsoft GW2. Some people like your attacks and playstyles being tied to your equipped weapon, with several different weapons to choose from per class. Since WildStar isn't using that route, they may think the game isn't as advanced or innovative in that feature.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    ummm i like for my character to learn and grow. idk might just be me.
  • IsawaIsawa Middle 0 Nowhere, ORPosts: 1,051Member
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style. You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.

    So, if all it does is change the graphic of your toon, then why should there even be customization of your character's looks?

    This is why some people don't care much for races, if all they provide is looks. They will be far more interested in the class they want to play before deciding on a race. Most games present your race first to pick, and plenty of them don't affect the in game mechanics other than restricting classes. People that don't care much often prefer that you select your class first since that actually affects your game play.

  • HarafnirHarafnir VikingvillePosts: 1,324Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?
    It could simply never work!

    It could simply never work! More than one loot item, that is insane! How can they draw, design and program more than one item, that would be like.... like... making more than one tree! or more than one rock! Madness, I tell you, madness!!!

    I wholeheartedly agree with the original poster!

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Space, VAPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style. You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.

    So, if all it does is change the graphic of your toon, then why should there even be customization of your character's looks?

    Because some people like that?  I don't understand what you are getting at?  I was saying that the 2 principles were the same in the end.  You still get to change the visual graphical image of your weapon by having another weapon.

     

    Originally posted by vmoped
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Originally posted by tkreep
    I like freedom and to be able to change up my playstyle time to time.  But its not a gamebreaker, i can deal with it.

     

    You aren't changing your play style. You are changing a tiny graphic on the hand of your toon, which you can do anyways. It might not be quite as different, but it will be different.

    I beg to differ.  In quite a few mmo's, weapon affects the character's playstyle.  A bow plays different than a two handed-hammer, etc...  It is more than graphics.  It is playstyle and customization.  In other words: options.  Last I checked, more options in a game is better for everyone.

    Cheers!

    LOL WHAT!? 

    Why are you comparing a bow to a hammer in reference to WS.

     

  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Space, VAPosts: 38Member
    Originally posted by Isawa
    One argument against 1 single weapon comes from one of WildStar's cousins via NCsoft GW2. Some people like your attacks and playstyles being tied to your equipped weapon, with several different weapons to choose from per class. Since WildStar isn't using that route, they may think the game isn't as advanced or innovative in that feature.


    NCsoft is just the publisher.  They do nothing but from cash.

    Well those people should play a 'more advanced' single player wannabe MMO with some elements of multiplayer, such as ESO or GW2.  This is a completely different type of game.  This is a real MMORPG!

  • UWNVMEUWNVME Auburn, WAPosts: 174Member
     While I do like having the choice of weapons in MMOs, I can easily let this one slide because they have a good reason for doing so. I like that the devs want every class to have a distinct weapon-style and animations that sets it apart.
  • WildaboutwildstarWildaboutwildstar Space, VAPosts: 38Member

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in totall.

  • GormogonGormogon Waukegan, ILPosts: 188Member Uncommon

    So OP's assessment is that "WildStar has only one weapon type per class, therefore one weapon type per class is better for WildStar."   That's awesome...

     

    The devs should just tell the truth, which is likely that it was a design decision stemming from aping another action combat game (TERA) and be done with it.  This "You don't understand, we had to do it this way; if we did it the way you want it would ruin everything!" garbage is insulting to the intelligence of everybody who isn't coked out on the game. 

     

    Especially in this case, where you're trying to argue for a visual enhancement over an opportunity for greater gameplay diversity and complexity in a game that mostly downplays the "gamer pr0n" aspect because it's supposedly the gameplay that really matters.

     

    For the record: I support the one-weapon-per-class concept for WildStar.  It doesn't bother me in TERA where the argument for its use is that it reinforces a certain identity for every class.   On the other hand, GW2 has weapons spread out over a bunch of classes and nobody at present will successfully argue that two classes in GW2 play the same.

     

    So yeah, people are going to need to deal with it, but the "You're wrong for wanting more weapon options; a single weapon per class is better" argument is ridiculous.

  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon

    I don't like being tied to 1 weapon.  I like to use what ever weapon best fits the situation I'm in.

    It's my biggest issue with FFXIV as well.

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 none of your buidnessPosts: 476Member Uncommon

    Originally posted by Zeblade

    Wow OP just killed the mmo right there. Lol just search on all the mmos and the like that had less armor less weapons. No fun..why do you think over 7million are still playing wow and how many of those are level 90? To chat? To get that armor that new awesome (in their eyes) weapon or that new achievement

     

     

     

    Eh? each class has it's own weapon type this is pretty much no different than most MMO's that tie a weapon or weapon type to classes.

    So instead of the Hunter raiding to get that BIS bow, or a Mage raiding to get the BIS staff you have an Esper raiding to get the best in slot psyblade or a stalker raiding to get the best in slot claws.

    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in totall.

    That's a very stupid response, and i don't even think that quote is accurate, you can have 300 weapon types with 30 attack animations per weapon, and you can have 3 weapon types with a single attack animation.

     

    As for the whole single weapon issue, it is an issue and depending on your own preferences it might be a show stopper or it might be an issue. At any time that a game takes customization options away from the player it's bad. Now that said pretty much every "Themepark" MMO these days is based around class abilities which are not bound or affected by the type of weapon you use. In WoW A hunter with a bow will behave just as a hunter with a gun, a warrior with a 2H axe will act just like a warrior with a 2H sword. But and that's a big but I've played a hunter and i didn't used guns even if they were BIS because  i hated the look(well sound) and feel of them compared to bows.
     

    That said there are plenty of customization options even with 1 weapon per class, granted that the weapons could be customized sufficiently. SWTOR did it quite well, for better and for worse SWTOR had quite good customization options considering every class was locked into pretty much a single type of weapons.

  • VassagoMaelVassagoMael Covington, LAPosts: 555Member

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deVOCkMSHaQ

     

    Pretty sure this has already been settled.

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  • XarkoXarko Hradec KralovePosts: 394Member Uncommon

    Im not a fan of being locked to 1 weapon eighter, but I can live with that.

    In WoW warrior uses 2h weapon for arms spec, 1h +shield for tanking and dual wield for fury spec and each is a different playstyle. Mainly due to different skills, but weapon itself still makes significant enough change imo.

    In Wildstar warriors will use those ridiculous 2h toy swords for any spec, afaik. :)

     

    On the other hand, now that I think about it ... in Swtor classes were locked to 1 weapon too, but I didnt feel it, becuase I could use grenades, flamethrower, rockets etc. as skills.

    If there is enough skill variety in WS, I dont see a problem.

     

    I see I made myself mind less about the issue and that kinda made my post redundant, but I'll still post it, maybe someone will find it interesting.

  • djazzydjazzy louisville, COPosts: 3,578Member

    In the majority of mmos, weapons are just stat sticks. A sword or an axe or a polearm or whatever, they do exactly the same thing, the same skills are used. All they are, are cosmetic differences. Very few games actually have differences for each weapon type (two games off of the top of my head are TSW and GW2).

    Why should Wildstar be singled out in this respect? If you are going to criticize it for this, the criticize all games for doing then same thing.

  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,995Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

     

     Well, I wouldn't even consider him a console gamer either. Because there are many console games that also utilize the ability for players to wield many different weapons. God of War, Assassins creed, call of duty, gears of war, and even older games like castlevania share this feature.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

     

    Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • jimdandy26jimdandy26 salem, ORPosts: 527Member
    Originally posted by Roxtarr

    Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

    Agreed. I am siding with the devs on this one. I much prefer animations that look right than have different weapons that I am going to get pigeonholed into later anyway.

    I did battle with ignorance today, and ignorance won.

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  • Mtibbs1989Mtibbs1989 Fredericksburg, VAPosts: 2,920Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

     

    Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

     Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.

    image

    Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Roxtarr
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by Mtibbs1989
    Originally posted by Wildaboutwildstar
    Well I am here to tell you it is!

     

    I continually hear people raise this complaint about WS. Though, the only point these people are able to raise is that other games, such as WoW, have multiple weapons available per class. As if that in itself is some kind of argument. Hint, its not. But, we will pretend it is, and this is my rebuttal.

     

     

     

    It works in WoW, because multiple classes can use the same weapons. That isn't the case in WS though! For instance, a 1h axe in WoW can be used by an enhancement shaman, a rogue, or a fury warrior. In WS though, it could be used by the stalker, but who else? No one! All the classes use unique types of weapons, so creating more is pointless! Furthermore, could you imagine how cluttered the loot tables of bosses would be if the devs had to include multiple weapons for each class?

    It could simply never work!

     

    What if you like tons of animations?

    In fact, the Devs already commented on this, the more weapon types the less animations per weapon.  So, having 1 weapon allows them to have more unique animations in total.

     You obviously haven't been playing MMO's for long. It's only until recently that many games have limited the available weapons to a single class. A few games like EQ EQ2 AO WoW and etc all allow multiple types of weapons for their classes and it's the players choice of which weapon(s) they want to use. Limiting the games of features is bad and you're only going to see less and less with the way you think.

     

    Yes, it is obvious he has no clue what MMO combat can and should be about, pretty much a console player and won't grasp why one weapon is not only a bad thing, but thinks this is a positive feature instead of lazy game design.

     

    Gotta chime in. What an insulting assumption. To assume one weapon per class is lazy design is the kind of arm-chair nit-picking that drives the MMO community into the cynical and negative place it has become. I understand that it's become the norm to call devs lazy and make baseless statements based on zero experience or research, but the guy actually did his homework and the devs have clearly stated their case on the matter will full reasoning. Agree or disagree with the DEISGN choice, but to write them off is lazy shows no research on the subject, which is in fact, by definition, lazy posting.

     Zero experience or research? Do you have any idea how much content and customization have been utterly removed from the MMO genre? No ability to apply stats, smaller world, less item selection, little to no death penalties, less overall content, no grind, no RPing, less dungeons, little to no raids, this MMO genre has significantly less content now than it has ever had before. I believe you're out of place and have no understanding of how little you're getting for you money these days.

    Saying that Carbine made the design choice of one weapon per class was a 'lazy' design choice is baseless incorrect because they've clearly stated their design reasons behind it. It wasn't an issue of laziness, but of preference for a multitude of reasons they have clearly stated.

    Your argument about a number of issues that the MMO genre has, and many of your points are valid but it sounds like you're using WildStar as a whipping post for the devolution of the genre. Your anger is pointed in the wrong direction.

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

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