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What sort of death penalty do you want? What you believe EQNext will have?

13

Comments

  • karat76karat76 Member UncommonPosts: 1,000
    Xp loss and loss of item durability.
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    Originally posted by MMOExposed
    What sort of death penalty do you believe EQNEXT will have? 

    It has to sting enough so that players never choose to die on purpose in exchange for the convenience of porting to the town they are headed to anyway.  Dying in game ought to always be something to be avoided.

    That said, I think the only way to achieve this is with some experience penalty.  Can't do with with item wear alone, because that is just gold and folks will spend gold to travel from A to B.  Has to be something EVERYONE wants to avoid, and experience penalties usually accomplish this.

    Experience penalties become absolutely worthless after the player reaches max level. Item degradation is as punishing as you want it to be. Money is time, no different than any experience loss. If you can't just repair your gear for a small amount then item degradation becomes a lot more punishing. Also, if you don't allow item repair, you have the extra benefit of removing items from the game and creating more demand for them instead of a constant inflation of items.

    And money penalties are absolutely worthless right from the start. All someone has to do is give you some chump change (as a higher level character) and suddenly, death means nothing. Then you run into the issues of players demanding money from one another for getting each other killed. No. Stick with some sort of xp loss.

    So? Someone given money is going to die less simply because he has better gear. Early levels should start off easier. The most difficult gameplay and harshest penalties should come from when you are max level. Experience loss is a regressive system that makes it less punishing to be max level than starting from the beginning.

    .... It's not a death penalty if its, you know, not a penalty. I don't think you get it.

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by strykr619
    Original eq1 penalty is perfect (meaning if you aren't rezzed and revive you are naked for your corpse run). The fact that you can lose a level if you die to many times was great. For those who say once you reached max level that it didn't matter anymore, simple fix for that is take more xp at death when you are max level. 

    Then you just create a game of nothing but perpetual experience grind, all without any gain whatsoever. That is not even remotely fun.

    says you.

     

    sorry to be blunt, but too many people now days don't think before they act in game, and screw everyone else over due to stupid actions. This does two things: forces people to start thinking, and people become known vert fast as undependable if they cause too many group deaths.

    it isnt that hard to stay alive, if you pay attention  and act smart.

     

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • TorcipTorcip Member UncommonPosts: 669
    I would want full lootable bodies, but as that's a bit harsh for the majority of players I think item degradation where if an item breaks it actually breaks and is gone forever. And to repair equipment a little (say 70% effective) would be cheap but to repair back to good as new would require quite a lot of money based on what the item is. That or permanent item degradation where a fully degraded item is half as effective.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Have a slider at character creation. 10 = permadeath 1= minimal.  Have numbers where people can allow full looting upon death but can rez as normal.  This way the full loot pvpers can play together.  Everyone gets what they want except those who just want to ruin other people's game.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • enaz13enaz13 Member UncommonPosts: 102
    I would think this would be a good opportunity for SOE to have few different set rules for different servers like they had the different PVP rule sets. For example one for those that like classic EQ1 penalty rule set and have servers similar to a more modern rule set. So at least in some way they are trying to accommodate  for different play styles.
  • jcr4990jcr4990 Member Posts: 10
    Originally posted by ice-vortex
    Originally posted by jcr4990
    I want EQ1 death penalties personally but I don't know if SoE will risk doing that. People are too soft after WoW and all the modern MMO's making death meaningless. EQ1's death penalties actually made you scared of dying and made you play carefully. Really would like to have that feeling back in EQN. Just not holding my breath.

    Experience penalties in EQ1 were worthless once you reached max level.

    Disagreed. If you died enough times you could still lose your level. You also seem to be only addressing the XP loss portion of EQ death system. There was also the fact that you had to retrieve your corpse from wherever you died while being naked. But that's besides the point. By the time you had a max lvl EQ character you were already so afraid of death that it didn't matter lol. 

    Besides what would you prefer? A lame repair system where u spend 2g per death using meaningless currency that doesn't matter? Especially after the inevitable currency inflation that occurs with all MMO's since the beginning of time? Do you want all your items to magically stay on your body after death? I'd say EQ1 had a much better system than most modern mmos.

     

    Edit: Something tells me you never had a bad night in PoFear before?

  • killahhkillahh Member UncommonPosts: 445
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Have a slider at character creation. 10 = permadeath 1= minimal.  Have numbers where people can allow full looting upon death but can rez as normal.  This way the full loot pvpers can play together.  Everyone gets what they want except those who just want to ruin other people's game.

     

    would be better if there was a server that catered to people like you that wish no risk , what you propose is the most unbalanced thing i have ever heard.

    you either have a sandbox, or not.  there is no such thing as a no risk sandbox, period.

     

    over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Member CommonPosts: 2,556
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Have a slider at character creation. 10 = permadeath 1= minimal.  Have numbers where people can allow full looting upon death but can rez as normal.  This way the full loot pvpers can play together.  Everyone gets what they want except those who just want to ruin other people's game.

     

    would be better if there was a server that catered to people like you that wish no risk , what you propose is the most unbalanced thing i have ever heard.

    you either have a sandbox, or not.  there is no such thing as a no risk sandbox, period.

     

    People keep trying to suggest things like this and are entirely blind to why it doesn't work. I wonder if they ever think them all the way through.

    If one guy makes a hardcore death penalty for himself, but everyone else picks no death penalty, well he won't ever be able to group with anyone, because they'll all act like crazy people and won't care if they die, and they'll get him killed.

     

    Project Gorgon had a pretty cool slider, that being said. But it gave you bonuses to loot and xp and stuff the harder your death penalty. The hardest death penalty was, when you died, your corpse exploded, all your items would fly off it, and people around you could loot it.

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by Torcip
    I would want full lootable bodies, but as that's a bit harsh for the majority of players I think item degradation where if an item breaks it actually breaks and is gone forever. And to repair equipment a little (say 70% effective) would be cheap but to repair back to good as new would require quite a lot of money based on what the item is. That or permanent item degradation where a fully degraded item is half as effective.

     

    I'm with you on the lootable bodies.  I like to kick it up a notch too where every individual item has a random roll with a fairly good chance to be destroyed on death as well and whatever is left is lootable.  Keep that economy rolling!  I want to see crafters that just can't make crap faster than we burn through it.

    Thats what I want in a game.  Its what I have very very low hopes EQN will have. 

     

    What I believe EQN will have?

    Probably item damage on death that you just go repair if you die too much. 

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Have a slider at character creation. 10 = permadeath 1= minimal.  Have numbers where people can allow full looting upon death but can rez as normal.  This way the full loot pvpers can play together.  Everyone gets what they want except those who just want to ruin other people's game.

     

    would be better if there was a server that catered to people like you that wish no risk , what you propose is the most unbalanced thing i have ever heard.

    you either have a sandbox, or not.  there is no such thing as a no risk sandbox, period.

     

    People keep trying to suggest things like this and are entirely blind to why it doesn't work. I wonder if they ever think them all the way through.

    If one guy makes a hardcore death penalty for himself, but everyone else picks no death penalty, well he won't ever be able to group with anyone, because they'll all act like crazy people and won't care if they die, and they'll get him killed.

     

    Project Gorgon had a pretty cool slider, that being said. But it gave you bonuses to loot and xp and stuff the harder your death penalty. The hardest death penalty was, when you died, your corpse exploded, all your items would fly off it, and people around you could loot it.

    If you think it was a real suggestion you didn't think it through.  It's a way to get people who want to be tough guy pvpers with full loot to admit that they really like the fun/challenge becuase of the consequences for other people not for themselves.  Guess you just don't think that well.  Oh well...

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,769
    Originally posted by killahh
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    Have a slider at character creation. 10 = permadeath 1= minimal.  Have numbers where people can allow full looting upon death but can rez as normal.  This way the full loot pvpers can play together.  Everyone gets what they want except those who just want to ruin other people's game.

     

    would be better if there was a server that catered to people like you that wish no risk , what you propose is the most unbalanced thing i have ever heard.

    you either have a sandbox, or not.  there is no such thing as a no risk sandbox, period.

     

    Where did I way that I didn't want risk?  Highlight the line or without doing so, admit you are a fool.

    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Permadeath with cash shop "insurance" against death! Must own before death!
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by waynejr2
    If you think it was a real suggestion you didn't think it through.  It's a way to get people who want to be tough guy pvpers with full loot to admit that they really like the fun/challenge becuase of the consequences for other people not for themselves.  Guess you just don't think that well.  Oh well...

     

    I never thought of it like that!  This whole time I thought I just liked full loot systems for the simple immersive feeling it gives me subjectively to kill a guy and then loot his sword and armor or more importantly to me since I am mostly a PVE/Crafter type the way an economy works in tandem with that loot system and the fun I have with that.

    Before today I never even thought that maybe I am just a psychopath and want others to suffer and that is the single driving force of my desires.  Guess you live and learn.

  • thedood123thedood123 Member UncommonPosts: 150
    Lose XP(maybe), Rez at a stone or ghost walk to corpse, nothing more than that because it would be considered an inconvience... Smedley already said corpse runs are one of the main reasons people quit EQ in the 2010 fan faire. Most definitely won't happen in EQN.
  • asdarasdar Member UncommonPosts: 662

    I've been in both camps, I like PvP so I will play if it goes that way. Of all the PvP I've played FFA full loot is the most fun type of PvP and it seems to all work with crafting and empire building and all that.

    Right now I want a PvE game. I don't believe all PvP players are griefers, but even the ones with the very best attitude can ruin someone's day that doesn't want to PvP. I'm hoping they have a great solution so both sides can get what they want. I think DAoC did it alright. Large PvP zones, but lots of PvE zones too.

    I really hope that they have a PvE and a PvP server.

    To me the biggest problem PvP MMO's have is that they don't have enough good PvE play. Fights are usually not fair and so for me win or lose it's boring. I've never yet had someone say to me in a PvP world "go and get 3 more so it'll be an even fight," and if they did I can guarantee that while I would honor it and only get three more the others I play with would bring 10 more, and I play with pretty honorable people.

    So no fair fights mixed with lacking PvE make PvP games boring for me.

    Asdar

  • donpopukidonpopuki Member Posts: 591
    Permadeath but hear me out. High level clerics can rez people and rare relics. Maybe a once per week for the clerics to cast Rez along with rare spell components.
  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Permadeath but hear me out. High level clerics can rez people and rare relics. Maybe a once per week for the clerics to cast Rez along with rare spell components.

     

    Do you think people would avoid challenging content or maybe content altogether if they already died once that week?

    As in, 

    jim: feel like raiding bob?

    bob: no i died monday, gotta wait till next week for my rez to reset :(

     

    Or am I off base with what you meant.

  • Shadowguy64Shadowguy64 Member Posts: 848
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Permadeath but hear me out. High level clerics can rez people and rare relics. Maybe a once per week for the clerics to cast Rez along with rare spell components.

     

    Do you think people would avoid challenging content or maybe content altogether if they already died once that week?

    As in, 

    jim: feel like raiding bob?

    bob: no i died monday, gotta wait till next week for my rez to reset :(

     

    Or am I off base with what you meant.

     

    Your forgetting the cash shop scroll of rezzieness for $5

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by Shadowguy64
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by donpopuki
    Permadeath but hear me out. High level clerics can rez people and rare relics. Maybe a once per week for the clerics to cast Rez along with rare spell components.

     

    Do you think people would avoid challenging content or maybe content altogether if they already died once that week?

    As in, 

    jim: feel like raiding bob?

    bob: no i died monday, gotta wait till next week for my rez to reset :(

     

    Or am I off base with what you meant.

     

    Your forgetting the cash shop scroll of rezzieness for $5

     

    haha problem solved once and forever imo.

    game is a go.

  • TorcipTorcip Member UncommonPosts: 669
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Torcip
    I would want full lootable bodies, but as that's a bit harsh for the majority of players I think item degradation where if an item breaks it actually breaks and is gone forever. And to repair equipment a little (say 70% effective) would be cheap but to repair back to good as new would require quite a lot of money based on what the item is. That or permanent item degradation where a fully degraded item is half as effective.

     

    I'm with you on the lootable bodies.  I like to kick it up a notch too where every individual item has a random roll with a fairly good chance to be destroyed on death as well and whatever is left is lootable.  Keep that economy rolling!  I want to see crafters that just can't make crap faster than we burn through it.

    Thats what I want in a game.  Its what I have very very low hopes EQN will have. 

     

    What I believe EQN will have?

    Probably item damage on death that you just go repair if you die too much. 

    That's a good point about the crafters, the reason why EVE online crafting and economy works so well is because crafters always have work, things are always getting destroyed and needing replacement. This is a great way to create a healthy crafting scene and economy.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    I hope a 'death penalty' is just one of many aspects of the game which give you incentive to live.

    I hope for innovation, not another feature from games past. 

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    I hope a 'death penalty' is just one of many aspects of the game which give you incentive to live.

    I hope for innovation, not another feature from games past. 

     

    Well that is interesting, do you have something in mind or just hoping for nothing in particular?

    either way I can sympathize with your sentiment on games past!

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254
    Originally posted by Ramanadjinn
    Originally posted by Zorgo

    I hope a 'death penalty' is just one of many aspects of the game which give you incentive to live.

    I hope for innovation, not another feature from games past. 

     

    Well that is interesting, do you have something in mind or just hoping for nothing in particular?

    either way I can sympathize with your sentiment on games past!

    How about a system where bosses in dungeons get progressively more difficult, but continues to increase in difficulty with each wipe. Translation = don't get cocky in the beginning, you're only making it harder on yourself.

    How about...a long duration stamina which slowly ticks down as you kill mobs, the better you do, the less is removed, the longer the slog, the more you lose, eventually you get to where you have to 'rest' for a long duration to regain str. Supplemented of course by class spells, food/drink, etc.

    How about... dungeons with difficult bosses, so difficult, continued success in a dungeon without a wipe reaps higher and higher rewards.

    Those are just a few I've bounced around in my head. Limited I know, gotta think about open world content as well, but at least someone should start thinking of something else. 

    Beating me with a stick can be part of the equation, but carrots provide incentive too.

     

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Member UncommonPosts: 1,365
    Originally posted by Zorgo
     

    How about a system where bosses in dungeons get progressively more difficult, but continues to increase in difficulty with each wipe. Translation = don't get cocky in the beginning, you're only making it harder on yourself.

    How about...a long duration stamina which slowly ticks down as you kill mobs, the better you do, the less is removed, the longer the slog, the more you lose, eventually you get to where you have to 'rest' for a long duration to regain str. Supplemented of course by class spells, food/drink, etc.

    How about... dungeons with difficult bosses, so difficult, continued success in a dungeon without a wipe reaps higher and higher rewards.

    Those are just a few I've bounced around in my head. Limited I know, gotta think about open world content as well, but at least someone should start thinking of something else. 

    Beating me with a stick can be part of the equation, but carrots provide incentive too.

     

     

    I see where you're coming from here.  Interesting stuff and I wonder why we haven't seen more stuff like that in MMOs.  Your examples aren't bad, but more importantly, the basic idea could express itself in many many creative and possibly fun ways.

    thanks!

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