Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

Religious and LGBT Guilds, Yay or Nay?

TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member

This article on Massively: http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/07/18/ask-massively-taboo-topics/

talks about the subject of "themed" guilds, in particular, guilds with a religious focus or a LGBT focus. Really, the guild is focused on gaming, but you know what I mean.

It has never occurred to me to be offended or really even care about this type of thing. If people want a guild that's friendly towards a particular religion or orientation, as long as they aren't militant, exclusive based on that religion or orientation and as long as they have good taste in public chat, I don't feel like i need to spend a lot of time thinking about it. Until I read the article.

It seems awhile back that Blizzard was going to ban guilds based on a LBGT charter, but backlash from the world or the gaming community caused them to reverse the decision quickly. This honestly surprises me. Given the nature of WoW's chat channels, I'm kind of surprised they would even consider that stance.

So, what do you think? Do religious guilds ruin your immersion in a game? What about LBGT guilds? Are there even that many guilds that advertise themselves based on a given religion or orientation?

Also, I realize this is a topic that could go south quickly, but in the spirit of conversation, try to avoid talking about specific religions or people, and focus on guilds. If things do go pear shaped, my apologies.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

«13456715

Comments

  • EsuarfeeeeEsuarfeeee cityofangelsPosts: 76Member

    i really don't mind if i actually see one of those guilds. it just makes me wonder though why they should even include or like practice those king of things in a game, is it for role-playing perhaps? i dunno. 

    as long as they don't do something crazy, im fine with them :)

    image
  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member
     They don't bother me at all. Like the article said, you have bad trolls also in game chatss just looking to start trouble. Ignore and move on.
  • AldersAlders Jack Burton'sPosts: 1,857Member Uncommon
    Why are people's race, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation even issues anymore?
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    I really did find myself trying to word a well thought out response to this post. But in the end, I find myself coming to the conclusion that for this topic, the smartest response is the one not posted.
  • MythrylMythryl Hoffman Estates, ILPosts: 18Member Common
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    I really did find myself trying to word a well thought out response to this post. But in the end, I find myself coming to the conclusion that for this topic, the smartest response is the one not posted.

     

    I agree completely!
  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon

    What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

    image
  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,548Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by immodium

    What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

    This. /thread.

    Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    Me no care. What you do in church or in bed is your issue not mine as long as you keep me out of it.

    image
  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    I am fine with it.

    As long as ALL of it is tolerated. If you get the LGBT, you get the Religious too, no picksies, no choosies.

     

    I find it actually to be helpful. That way if you get into a guild, you don't find out later your personal obsessional hang up is a no go for the rest involved.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member

    I really do not care what people do on their own or what they choose to believe in. It is when they feel the need to "advertise" their choices that can get under my skin. These are real world aspects that have no place in a fantasy world. I just want to say, "yay? good for you?"

    That being said, I can see how that "identification" can make things easier yet at the same time harder. People looking for like minded people have an easier time finding them. On the other hand, the small minded players have easily identifiable targets for their desperate hate.

    I can understand Blizzard's stance. It is not unlike MMORPG.com's stance on political and religious posting. It tends to fan the flames of board wars. It is sad that a "special interest group" dictated how a business was run. That is wrong.

    Just as MMOs are created to sell to the lowest common denominator (LCD), they also have to take into account what they allow for that same LCD to interact with.

    I guess I just do not understand what makes people want others to know about their sexual, political, or religious choices or preferences. It's a game. Leave that stuff at the log in screen.

    Remember, Guilds decide who they let in or not. No one should be able to tell Guilds who gets to become members. In one sense it is not unlike PvE, PvP, or RP guild tags. But that is geared more towards game play, not real world likes/dislikes.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • stayBlindstayBlind Suwannee, GAPosts: 527Member
    Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

    Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.

  • OziiusOziius Baltimore, MDPosts: 1,388Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Alders
    Why are people's race, religious affiliation, and sexual orientation even issues anymore?

    That's the age old question my friend. It's been this way since the beginning of the first civilizations. People just tend to dislike others who don't believe what they believe. And if they do believe what they believe.. they won't like them cause they don't look like they do.. or act like they do.. or do the same things they do.. It's a sad state of affairs... but far from new. 

     

    On the original post... I don't mind those guild at all. I just steer clear of them. They don't bother me though.

  • XssivXssiv Haskell, NJPosts: 359Member
    Originally posted by immodium

    What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

    I don't think they are trying to impose their views on people in game, they probably just want to hang with like-minded players.

     

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,207Member Uncommon

    I think people want to game with like-minded individuals.  I like to game with my friends and can understand how others want familiarity and safety in their socialization.

    Several games I play have both religious and LGBT oriented guilds.  Rift, Neverwinter, and LotRO come to mind incidentally.

    This topic came up on the Rift forums.  It seems there is a decent portion of that game population belonging to the LGBT demographic.  In that thread the proponents of those guilds pointed out that people like to feel safe and comfortable discussing anything from their perspective.  A man might mention his boyfriend, partner, etc and would like to do so without having to deal contrary reactions.  They can, and do according to those posters, get that reaction in general chat.

    Religious groups might like to promote a chat and interaction associated with their mores.  Someone might like to mention god or church in chat without having to engage in a contrary discussion.  They might want to have a swearing rule or keep chat what they consider "family appropriate" and not argue with guildies who are not like-minded.

    These guilds allow for a unity where division and drama in a more generic guild might ensue.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that.  Guilds should be about support, unity, and cohesion.  I think these sorts of guilds do others a service as well since they aren't asking non-like minded people to adjust for them.  Like you said, as long as they respect the rights of others, they should have their freedom as well.

  • TheMaahesTheMaahes Marlborough, MAPosts: 185Member

    I don't understand why those things even matter really. I've heard a bunch of examples over the years as to why they do, but I still think players should just keep a lock on personal information. You're playing a game after all and there is no need to share such intimate facts about yourself. I can understand Blizzard's side in that story as a result.

  • jakinjakin somewhere, ONPosts: 243Member Common
    Originally posted by immodium

    What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

    I don't think it's so much seeking to get their views involved, but more of someone looking for an atmosphere where they can express their beliefs and / or be who they are without worrying about ridicule.

     

    Alternatively, I know it's also the case that sometimes people are looking for a place where they know they won't have to deal with casual bigotry.  People in a LGBT guild simply don't use the term "gay" as casually as much of the gamer population.

     

    MMOs are supposed to be social experiences.  I don't see why game companies wouldn't want to encourage social groups to form around shared interests.  Such bonds usually keep players in a given game far longer than they would without any social bonds.  As long as the game is proactive about harassment, and the groups themselves aren't especially militant about their views, I can only see it as a positive for the developers.

  • jakinjakin somewhere, ONPosts: 243Member Common
    Originally posted by stayBlind
    Would anyone have a problem with an exclusively NON-LBGT guild?

    I can guarantee you that such a guild is very easy to make.  It's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy.  In fact, it only takes one or two members of a certain mindset and it's a sure thing.

     

    Of course, there's no warranty on what the rest of the server will think of such a guild - but thems the breaks.

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by AlBQuirky

    I really do not care what people do on their own or what they choose to believe in. It is when they feel the need to "advertise" their choices that can get under my skin. These are real world aspects that have no place in a fantasy world. I just want to say, "yay? good for you?"

    That being said, I can see how that "identification" can make things easier yet at the same time harder. People looking for like minded people have an easier time finding them. On the other hand, the small minded players have easily identifiable targets for their desperate hate.

    I can understand Blizzard's stance. It is not unlike MMORPG.com's stance on political and religious posting. It tends to fan the flames of board wars. It is sad that a "special interest group" dictated how a business was run. That is wrong.

    Just as MMOs are created to sell to the lowest common denominator (LCD), they also have to take into account what they allow for that same LCD to interact with.

    I guess I just do not understand what makes people want others to know about their sexual, political, or religious choices or preferences. It's a game. Leave that stuff at the log in screen.

    Remember, Guilds decide who they let in or not. No one should be able to tell Guilds who gets to become members. In one sense it is not unlike PvE, PvP, or RP guild tags. But that is geared more towards game play, not real world likes/dislikes.

    I could agree, except when was the last time you say a guild that didn't "require", VOIP? I know of 1 in Rift at launch, Silent Epidemic, founder was deaf.......But other than that it is required. Making the argument about "immersion" a moot point.    Really all a LGBT guild wants is to not hear "fag" in VOIP. Just as the religious guild doesn't want to hear cussing. They both are trying  to avoid immature A-Holes that are going to stir up trouble in the guild. How about we stop being offended because some group we didn't want to be involved with in the first place doesn't want us? Besides, if you allow guilds to be so labeled, it frees up the Moderators to keep "hot-button" issues out of general.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by immodium What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"
    This. /thread.

    Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".


    Yet you are constantly involving your own views and don't even realize it. Of course when someone has a different view than your own it becomes a "plague" on your sense of reality. That is, unfortunately, how our society is hardwired in this day and age.

  • czombieczombie Monroe, MIPosts: 82Member
    This doesn't bother me at all.  The more an MMO reflects actual human experience, the better.  Although an outright racial supremacist or anti-gay guild might bother me, I'd probably just choose to ignore it.  I've seen enough racist or homophobic things on MMO chat channels that if it really bothered me, I would have stopped playing MMOs long ago.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,207Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
    Originally posted by immodium

    What I find unusual is why someone would play a game and think "I need to get my sexual orientation/religious/political views involved somehow"

    This. /thread.

    Games are not tools for religious, political or sexual propaganda, and anyone trying to use them as such should get a well deserved ban. I don't play game to have to endure the bullshit that is already plaguing "real world".

    Well, that is sort of the point of those guilds no?  They can freely let their lifestyles and personalities be who they are without having to filter for you and you don't have to filter who you are.  The real world always infringes on the game.

    It can be something as simple as:

    Roy: "I can't make the raid next week, my partner, Mark, is going to the dentist and I have to chauffeur them."

    Kevin: "Can we schedule raid days for Saturday?  I have church on Sundays and I'm in the choir."

    Melissa: "My wife and I just adopted a baby.  We're going to have a guild event to celebrate."

    Believe it or not some people feel compelled to address these differences in a very vocal and confrontational manner.  This doesn't happen when more mainstream people mention their lives.  You're not going to hear an outcry from a male/female couple mentioning a celebration for their newborn.  My guilds have had several congrats or celebrations for these sorts of events.  The same goes with religious stuff.

    I'm not interested in joining a themed guild, but I understand why others are.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Vancouver, BCPosts: 4,818Member
    I think those guilds are a good idea. It keeps all the people who can't leave that stuff at the door away from everyone that can.
  • RzepRzep warsawPosts: 716Member Uncommon

    This is a story? From the begining of guilds in game there were those that allowed anyone in and others which had guidelines on who could join. Nothing wrong with people choosing who they want to play with. I imagine that my "I hate religion" viewpoint would anger religious folk and maybe shift the focus from enjoying the game to arguing pointlessly with me. I understand people wanting to play with like minded individuals. As long as the thing, like someone, said isn't militant or a hate group it's normal.

  • AmanaAmana New York, NYPosts: 2,544Moderator Uncommon
    Just chiming in to ask that this not get into a big debate over any of these topics.  Please discuss it in context and be civil. If things get out of hand, we will shut it down.

    To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Amana
    Just chiming in to ask that this not get into a big debate over any of these topics.  Please discuss it in context and be civil. If things get out of hand, we will shut it down.

    Seems legit and civil so far :)

«13456715
This discussion has been closed.