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Love the game... however

ArcticnoonArcticnoon Alamogordo, NMPosts: 141Member

I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

 

Comments

  • ZizouXZizouX Burbank, CAPosts: 670Member

    Monk has a different DPS mechanic than Dragoon.  Dragoon is a little more traditional in a sense and doesn't rely on directional attacks as much as a Monk.  Dragoon is more burst DPS with 4 different jumps that can be used strategicially in between the global cool down.  

    Monk requires far more movement, is much faster gameplay, and requires a balancing act of maintaining buffs on yourself while debuffing the boss/mob.  They just play differently.  IT may be as simple as the difference between Monk and Dragoon in FFXI, although, Dragoonin FFXIV does not have a pet.

     

    With respect to PLD and WAR.  PLD is your stereotypical mmo tank with very high mitigation and plenty of threat tools.  There is not destinct mechanic involved.  IT's your meat and potatoes tank of the mmo world.  Warrior has less mitigation, but higher HP.  It's the "sponge tank" that can with stand big hits.  Warrior also has HP regeneration and HP absorption mechanics similar to a Dark Knight in FFXI.   The biggest difference between PLD and Warrior is that Warrior gets a separate mechanic at lvl 30 called Defiance.  IT's a passive buff that adds stacks of Wrath everytime you use an ability that can give wrath.  Wrath, passively adds 2% chance ot crit for a total of 10% at 5 stacks.  When you get 5 stacks of wrath, you're in an infuriated state, which allows you to use one of two class defining weapon skills, Inner Beast (single target massive DPS that ignores the damage penalty while you're in your tanking stance "Defiance") or Steel Cyclone, an aoe weapon skill that ignores the damage penalty of defiance stance but also heals a percentage of your HP from each mob you damage.

     

    I prefer warrior because it isn't cut and dry.  There is a balancing and thinking involved in how to use your Wrath stacks.  What abilities to use to gain stacks... whether to keep the 10% crit buff, or use Inner Beast/Steel Cyclone.

     

    Once you play the classes, you'll see their uniqueness just like FFXI.  Thaumaturge/Black Mage is also very unique and I heard very fun... I didn't try it much though during beta.

     

    Hope that helps.

  • ArcticnoonArcticnoon Alamogordo, NMPosts: 141Member
    Thank you. This is very well written good news.
  • PoporiPopori Hickory Grove, SCPosts: 334Member

    They've also been mentioning their desire to add in many of the classes missing from FFXI, which you can find in many of the interviews floating around.  Samurai was a key class mentioned due to how loved it was in XI.  SE has a ton of classes to draw from thanks to the long history of the series (and really, FF Tactics alone) so with any luck we'll get them before too long.

    That being said, I am content with what is in for now.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    A lot of this info is already in my combat thread but, there are two tanks currently.  They are BOTH balanced to be suitable defensively and in terms of aggro generation to be main tanks.  This is their balance, but they are not identical.

     

    Paladin has a unique set of defensive capabilities and plays as the "protector" of your group.  You are built to last and endure and your potential comes from your ability to stand up to anything.

     

    Warrior is your typical RPG "rage fueled" job.  You can literally burn through all your potential power in a very short period if you want to.  You can also deal damage through taking damage, you can lock yourself and the mob in place in a kind of death hold, and you heal yourself through doing damage.  You can play much more "recklessly" compared to a Paladin, but with that recklessness you unlock your potential.

     

     

    Dragoon is a burst DD capable of delivering devastating damage in short periods of time.  Classic dragoon abilities like the jumps give the job a very unique feel (imo).

     

    Monk is nothing like Dragoon.  It is nothing like Bard, or Warrior, or anything else.  The forms you have are so much more than just combos, first you cannot even use most of your weaponskills until you are in their "form", it has heavy positional requirements, and buffs spread out across the forms (which all have multipl attacks you need to use to play effectively).  it is a very rhythmic job where you build power as the fight goes on , and you execute your abilities properly through stacking Couerl form's Greased Lightning, as well as applying Raptor Form's Twin Snakes buff, and Opo-Opo's debuff to blunt.  It does a pretty good job imo of capturing the martial feel of the class because of this.  The play reminds me of Bruce Lee or IP man training on the Mook Yan Jong. 

    You need a real feel for it and the rhythm in order to get the most out of the job.  It isn't really an easy "play by the numbers of some guide you read" kind of job.

     

    Bard Is more than throwing your songs up.  The songs are not meant to be set and forgotten, but it is more active and situational.  So in addition to doing damage individually, you need to be paying attention to people's needs and weighing whether it is worth it for you to sing TP paeon, or MP ballad to replenish them (or elemental weakness down during periods of short burst damage for the group).

     

    White Mage most powerful heals, most powerful damage shield, only combat raise outside of Tier 3 Limit Break, etc it is the traditional "I'll save you" healer.

     

    Black Mage: Elemental balance.  Thunderstorm, Astral Fire, and Umbral Ice.  Proc'ing, raw power burn, and MP regeneration.  Has to use them all wisely, but if they do capable of impressing results

     

    Scholar ???

     

    Summoner ???

     

    Pugilist's 2nd job: ???

    Gladiator's 2nd job: ???

    Lancer's 2nd job: ???

    Marauder's 2nd job: ???

    Conjurer's 2nd job: ???

    Thaumaturge's 2nd job: ???

    Unnanounced Class's jobs: ????????????????

     

    Jobs are not at all like classes.  Jobs are most defintely UNIQUE in their playstyle and roles in a group.  They have set out an ambitious plan to add a lot of jobs, I only hope the new ones are as uniquely flavored as the current ones.

  • twruletwrule Daly City, CAPosts: 1,251Member
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    You and I must have been playing different FFXI's, because that 'distinctness' for classes seemed more like "some classes are better (or at least more desired) than others" - people would only group with certain classes, and if you wanted to roll certain others, you were just about SOL for groups, short of getting lucky.

    XIV is a little closer to the WoW paradigm in that every DPS class should be (roughly) equally viable in their DPS role, and so on for healers and tanks. They still each have unique mechanics, bring unique utility, have unique playstyles; one raid boss fight might favor one job, the next fight, another, in subtle ways.

    A monk can interrupt/silence often (even chain AoE interrupt over a 10 second period with a cooldown - which to my knowledge no other class can do) and they are the only class that can strip buffs from enemy targets. Their DPS is dependent on keeping up their buffs and rapidly switching their position relative to the enemy target, so they will thrive in boss fights where they are free to do so, but potentially suffer in fights where they are forced to keep their distance from the boss from an extended period of time (it takes them time to build up their DPS, but they do a large amount if they can keep their combos going properly). They have to use abilities based on the 'form' they are in, which changes depending on the abilities they use (which creates an effect almost like the death knight rune system from WoW, or perhaps a constantly stance-dancing warrior), so they follow a rhythm of combos, weaving in different abilities at each step of those combos as called for (to keep up buffs or what not).

    The Dragoon has that advantage over the Monk, that it takes less time for him to ramp up his DPS, and his jumps give him increased control over his positioning and damage (he can back out instantly and, unlike the monk, attack from range with Jump). Dragoon also brings the best version of the slow debuff to the raid, being able to slow the bosses attack speed considerably without harming his DPS too much. He doesn't have to reposition as much as the monk to maximize dps. The trade off is that he can't interrupt enemy abilities as often, lacks the special utility of the monk I mentioned, and does less burst damage than a fully self-buffed monk, but more sustained damage over the course of a fight (also with the help of a cooldown that grants him a lot of TP, which would otherwise have to be carefully managed by other classes).

    I won't go into the tanking differences since those were already discussed.

    I can't compare healing classes since only one of the 2 is out right now, but I'm confident there will be notable differences between the two (off the top of my head, Conjurer gets a battle rez by combining one of their own traits with an ability they borrow from Thamaturge - Scholar is unlikely to get anything equivalent and will therefore have to make up for it with different utility).

    Monk and Dragoon are probably the two most similar jobs in the game, but even they have notable enough differences, and a different enough feel that they still offer a real choice to the player.

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by twrule
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    You and I must have been playing different FFXI's, because that 'distinctness' for classes seemed more like "some classes are better (or at least more desired) than others" - people would only group with certain classes, and if you wanted to roll certain others, you were just about SOL for groups, short of getting lucky.

    XIV is a little closer to the WoW paradigm in that every DPS class should be (roughly) equally viable in their DPS role, and so on for healers and tanks. They still each have unique mechanics, bring unique utility, have unique playstyles; one raid boss fight might favor one job, the next fight, another, in subtle ways.

    A monk can interrupt/silence often (even chain AoE interrupt over a 10 second period with a cooldown - which to my knowledge no other class can do) and they are the only class that can strip buffs from enemy targets. Their DPS is dependent on keeping up their buffs and rapidly switching their position relative to the enemy target, so they will thrive in boss fights where they are free to do so, but potentially suffer in fights where they are forced to keep their distance from the boss from an extended period of time (it takes them time to build up their DPS, but they do a large amount if they can keep their combos going properly). They have to use abilities based on the 'form' they are in, which changes depending on the abilities they use (which creates an effect almost like the death knight rune system from WoW, or perhaps a constantly stance-dancing warrior), so they follow a rhythm of combos, weaving in different abilities at each step of those combos as called for (to keep up buffs or what not).

    The Dragoon has that advantage over the Monk, that it takes less time for him to ramp up his DPS, and his jumps give him increased control over his positioning and damage (he can back out instantly and, unlike the monk, attack from range with Jump). Dragoon also brings the best version of the slow debuff to the raid, being able to slow the bosses attack speed considerably without harming his DPS too much. He doesn't have to reposition as much as the monk to maximize dps. The trade off is that he can't interrupt enemy abilities as often, lacks the special utility of the monk I mentioned, and does less burst damage than a fully self-buffed monk, but more sustained damage over the course of a fight (also with the help of a cooldown that grants him a lot of TP, which would otherwise have to be carefully managed by other classes).

    I won't go into the tanking differences since those were already discussed.

    I can't compare healing classes since only one of the 2 is out right now, but I'm confident there will be notable differences between the two (off the top of my head, Conjurer gets a battle rez by combining one of their own traits with an ability they borrow from Thamaturge - Scholar is unlikely to get anything equivalent and will therefore have to make up for it with different utility).

    Monk and Dragoon are probably the two most similar jobs in the game, but even they have notable enough differences, and a different enough feel that they still offer a real choice to the player.

    I think monk is the most unique playstyle in the entire game personally.  Also a monk can stack all of his bonuses in 10 seconds with Perfect Balance (temporarily removes form requriements) and then just has to maintain them throughout the fight.  Monk also doesn't have as much potential for burst damage other than through Limit Breaks and Impulse Drive from Lancer and Blood for Blood also from Lancer.  It does have some non-GCD attacks which can provide some burst damage, but they are also utility (stun and frontal "straight line" attack).  Whereas dragoon has a number of timed very high potency attacks making it really more the burst job of the two.  In my opinion.

  • MaquiameMaquiame Posts: 793Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    A lot of this info is already in my combat thread but, there are two tanks currently.  They are BOTH balanced to be suitable defensively and in terms of aggro generation to be main tanks.  This is their balance, but they are not identical.

     

    Paladin has a unique set of defensive capabilities and plays as the "protector" of your group.  You are built to last and endure and your potential comes from your ability to stand up to anything.

     

    Warrior is your typical RPG "rage fueled" job.  You can literally burn through all your potential power in a very short period if you want to.  You can also deal damage through taking damage, you can lock yourself and the mob in place in a kind of death hold, and you heal yourself through doing damage.  You can play much more "recklessly" compared to a Paladin, but with that recklessness you unlock your potential.

     

     

    Dragoon is a burst DD capable of delivering devastating damage in short periods of time.  Classic dragoon abilities like the jumps give the job a very unique feel (imo).

     

    Monk is nothing like Dragoon.  It is nothing like Bard, or Warrior, or anything else.  The forms you have are so much more than just combos, first you cannot even use most of your weaponskills until you are in their "form", it has heavy positional requirements, and buffs spread out across the forms (which all have multipl attacks you need to use to play effectively).  it is a very rhythmic job where you build power as the fight goes on , and you execute your abilities properly through stacking Couerl form's Greased Lightning, as well as applying Raptor Form's Twin Snakes buff, and Opo-Opo's debuff to blunt.  It does a pretty good job imo of capturing the martial feel of the class because of this.  The play reminds me of Bruce Lee or IP man training on the Mook Yan Jong. 

    You need a real feel for it and the rhythm in order to get the most out of the job.  It isn't really an easy "play by the numbers of some guide you read" kind of job.

     

    Bard Is more than throwing your songs up.  The songs are not meant to be set and forgotten, but it is more active and situational.  So in addition to doing damage individually, you need to be paying attention to people's needs and weighing whether it is worth it for you to sing TP paeon, or MP ballad to replenish them (or elemental weakness down during periods of short burst damage for the group).

     

    White Mage most powerful heals, most powerful damage shield, only combat raise outside of Tier 3 Limit Break, etc it is the traditional "I'll save you" healer.

     

    Black Mage: Elemental balance.  Thunderstorm, Astral Fire, and Umbral Ice.  Proc'ing, raw power burn, and MP regeneration.  Has to use them all wisely, but if they do capable of impressing results

     

    Scholar ???

     

    Summoner ???

     

    Pugilist's 2nd job: ???

    Gladiator's 2nd job: ???

    Lancer's 2nd job: ???

    Marauder's 2nd job: ???

    Conjurer's 2nd job: ???

    Thaumaturge's 2nd job: ???

    Unnanounced Class's jobs: ????????????????

     

    Jobs are not at all like classes.  Jobs are most defintely UNIQUE in their playstyle and roles in a group.  They have set out an ambitious plan to add a lot of jobs, I only hope the new ones are as uniquely flavored as the current ones.

    I can honestly say Pugilist is the best hand to hand class that I have ever played in an mmo. Disciple from Vanguard is a far second. Pugilist is really in a class by itself and is absolutely amazing! I can't wait to see Monk!

    image

    Any mmo worth its salt should be like a good prostitute when it comes to its game world- One hell of a faker, and a damn good shaker!

  • MuruganMurugan D, COPosts: 1,494Member
    Originally posted by Maquiame
    Originally posted by Murugan
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    A lot of this info is already in my combat thread but, there are two tanks currently.  They are BOTH balanced to be suitable defensively and in terms of aggro generation to be main tanks.  This is their balance, but they are not identical.

     

    Paladin has a unique set of defensive capabilities and plays as the "protector" of your group.  You are built to last and endure and your potential comes from your ability to stand up to anything.

     

    Warrior is your typical RPG "rage fueled" job.  You can literally burn through all your potential power in a very short period if you want to.  You can also deal damage through taking damage, you can lock yourself and the mob in place in a kind of death hold, and you heal yourself through doing damage.  You can play much more "recklessly" compared to a Paladin, but with that recklessness you unlock your potential.

     

     

    Dragoon is a burst DD capable of delivering devastating damage in short periods of time.  Classic dragoon abilities like the jumps give the job a very unique feel (imo).

     

    Monk is nothing like Dragoon.  It is nothing like Bard, or Warrior, or anything else.  The forms you have are so much more than just combos, first you cannot even use most of your weaponskills until you are in their "form", it has heavy positional requirements, and buffs spread out across the forms (which all have multipl attacks you need to use to play effectively).  it is a very rhythmic job where you build power as the fight goes on , and you execute your abilities properly through stacking Couerl form's Greased Lightning, as well as applying Raptor Form's Twin Snakes buff, and Opo-Opo's debuff to blunt.  It does a pretty good job imo of capturing the martial feel of the class because of this.  The play reminds me of Bruce Lee or IP man training on the Mook Yan Jong. 

    You need a real feel for it and the rhythm in order to get the most out of the job.  It isn't really an easy "play by the numbers of some guide you read" kind of job.

     

    Bard Is more than throwing your songs up.  The songs are not meant to be set and forgotten, but it is more active and situational.  So in addition to doing damage individually, you need to be paying attention to people's needs and weighing whether it is worth it for you to sing TP paeon, or MP ballad to replenish them (or elemental weakness down during periods of short burst damage for the group).

     

    White Mage most powerful heals, most powerful damage shield, only combat raise outside of Tier 3 Limit Break, etc it is the traditional "I'll save you" healer.

     

    Black Mage: Elemental balance.  Thunderstorm, Astral Fire, and Umbral Ice.  Proc'ing, raw power burn, and MP regeneration.  Has to use them all wisely, but if they do capable of impressing results

     

    Scholar ???

     

    Summoner ???

     

    Pugilist's 2nd job: ???

    Gladiator's 2nd job: ???

    Lancer's 2nd job: ???

    Marauder's 2nd job: ???

    Conjurer's 2nd job: ???

    Thaumaturge's 2nd job: ???

    Unnanounced Class's jobs: ????????????????

     

    Jobs are not at all like classes.  Jobs are most defintely UNIQUE in their playstyle and roles in a group.  They have set out an ambitious plan to add a lot of jobs, I only hope the new ones are as uniquely flavored as the current ones.

    I can honestly say Pugilist is the best hand to hand class that I have ever played in an mmo. Disciple from Vanguard is a far second. Pugilist is really in a class by itself and is absolutely amazing! I can't wait to see Monk!

    Monk >>>>>>>> Pugilist.  One Lim Punch, Dragon Kick are awesome weapon skills and Fists of Flame makes it a much more respectable DD.

     

    My biggest complaint is that Shoulder Tackle needs it recast removed completely.  You don't need a timer for a melee job that requires you to be at a distance.  No one is going to be jousting out to shoulder tackle.  I'd even be fine if they removed the stun if that is what they are concerned about.

     

    If we had a no cooldown shoulder tackle that would really balance us much better for AOE's since we don't have a ranged attack and all other jobs do.

  • twruletwrule Daly City, CAPosts: 1,251Member
    Originally posted by Murugan

    I think monk is the most unique playstyle in the entire game personally.  Also a monk can stack all of his bonuses in 10 seconds with Perfect Balance (temporarily removes form requriements) and then just has to maintain them throughout the fight.  Monk also doesn't have as much potential for burst damage other than through Limit Breaks and Impulse Drive from Lancer and Blood for Blood also from Lancer.  It does have some non-GCD attacks which can provide some burst damage, but they are also utility (stun and frontal "straight line" attack).  Whereas dragoon has a number of timed very high potency attacks making it really more the burst job of the two.  In my opinion.

    You're right, I forgot about the ability to use Perfect Balance to restack buffs - though there could be times where the cooldown on that is not up in theory, and so what I said holds, albeit to a lesser extent.

    You may be right about which one is more bursty - that was admittedly a bit of a guess on my part; the underlying point I suppose is that they have different patterns of damage peaks and troughs, etc.

  • Cod_EyeCod_Eye jarrowPosts: 1,016Member
    Originally posted by Arcticnoon

    I've purchased two copies of FFXIV. Original copy back in 2010 and I preordered a PS3 copy this week. I have been watching and reading every article pertaining to this game for the past 15 months. There isn't another game that I have more excitement for and I have been an ardent defender of the producer, company and the game they are developing.

    However recently after spending a good 15-20 hours in beta 3, I have one big concern. What makes the jobs in ARR individually special?

    After playing FFXI for 5 years I can tell you what set Red Mage apart from every other class. Phalanx, Stoneskin, Blinks and Ninja sub along with Refresh and Cure 3, made it head and shoulders above any other class for soloing in a game that no one soloed in.

    Thief had Sneak Attack/ Trick Attack which gave it great burst damage and helped the tank control hate in a party. If things got hot, Flee could save your life.

    Dark Knight was the melee damage king. Guillotine was the most vicious weapons skill in all the game. I could go on and on, but the point is each job brought something unique to the table and people had their favorites.

    Now I could be completely wrong and if I am someone help me out, but I don't get the same feeling from ARR. Whats the difference between Dragoon and Monk? One attacks faster and strings combos together, but it doesn't have a higher dps.

    Paladin vs. Warrior? They both can tank. One has better hate control vs multiple mobs, but does that make it special? Fact is if you want to play melee you only have two real options, one of two tanks, or one of two DDs.

    Yes I understand most games don't have a lot of classes at release, and ARR has more than any other, but can you really get excited about the jobs and classes you have to chose from?

    When I chose to play FFXI I first read through all the available classes and I knew Dark Knight was the one for me, even before creating a character. After 5 years of play it still was my favorite job.

    Same with WoW I first read the gamers guide and decided Warlock was what I wanted to play. I later switched to Death Knight, because it fit my playstyle better, but I still loved the class.

    I have decided to play Bard in FFXIV ARR, probably because so far it is the most unique job, but I doesn't excite me like other jobs and classes from other mmos have in the past.

    Granted Ive not played any of the jobs in FFXIV and I am only going off what I have read from SE's official website and videos I have seen on youtube of people who have transferred lvl 50 jobs to beta. So I could be completely mistaken. But so far this is my biggest concern with otherwise a marvelous game.

     

    Shouldn't refer back to ffXI to be fair, FFXI was out a year before EU/NA players got to it, so there was more classes/ jobs and content added which gave you more choices.

    As to jobs vs classes, job are specialised and suited more for party content ie dungeons, classes are meant to be suited more for soloing with the ability to add more skills from other classes as jobs are more restricted to the number and which skills are available.  Some skills are only available to jobs and not available to the class equivalent.

    Warriors and Paladins are both good job tanks, War are great for farming multiple mobs and mutli mob situations in group content, Paladins are better on 1 on 1 situations, though both are subject to how the player uses them.

    Class tanks Gladiator and Marauder also do a fine job used correctly but not as good as the war and pally imo.

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