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I think the pricing model will cause this game to fail. If F2P, it would do well.
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I have not even once said that i want the game to go F2P. However i have said that in todays market a game has to be really exceptional to survive on P2P model. Two very different things. But if you were here to read and discuss instead of hurling insults you would already know that.
Also i read the link but no where Yoshi said he would rather shut the game down instead of going F2P. Stop making your own stuff up.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
You are short some brain cells if you think F2P is good in today's Market. Its only working because the MMO Market is flooding with CRAP MMOS. Not because F2P is so much better. Every Game in the last 7 years have been CRAP. You get to end game in 1 weeks and complete it in another week. Why Sub to a game that has 2 weeks worth of content. That is why they go F2P because they have no rights being a game in the MMO market.
If they would make a mixed payment model like you suggest they would have to implement cash shop and thats a beginning of an end for a hardcore old school mmo.
You have to consider that F2P or B2P games live off casual players, and games are made for those people. In other words hardcore players are bored of them in less than a month, as there is nothing to do, or the game is just plain boring.
Only exceptions from that rule are old mmos that after years of being subscription bases they moved the model to either hybrid like you suggested or went f2p. But its at the end if their life cycle.
The sub for F14 is pretty low, and affordable. In the end people who seriously play mmos focus on one only anyway.
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
Lotro = Crap? League of Legends = Crap? Everquest 2 = Crap? Rift = Crap? Games are still going and profitable. Also you should refrain from putting down others in your posts.
Again trying to put words in my mouth. And what is with the insults? do you see me insulting you in any way? so give me the same courtsey will you and talk like a grown up?
It is not the question what i think is better but what majority thinks. I go with the flow. I never stopped playing MMOS when F2P didn't exist in western market, i am still playing when F2P is popular and i will still play when games will go back to just being P2P (not that it is going to happen anytime soon).
But when you see so many MMOS failing left and right it is just natural to question and ponder if FFXIV is going to make it.
As far all MMOS being crap in last 7 years that is your opinion and i disagree. There has been many good MMOS for example TSW, Fallen Earth etc. Even good MMOS go F2P. If being a good game and P2P is mutually exclusive...then WOW is the best MMO ever made.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
For the love of god, LoL isn't even in the same galaxy as the term MMO. It is a game of 5v5, nothing massive about it. CoD has a lobby and games of 20v20 40v40 and no one confuses that as an MMO. Yet so many people try to call LoL an MMO for some unknown reason.
LOTRO = NO GROUP CONTENT in the next expansion Its an MMO and you will have no group content?
LoL = Crap outside of a few hours of hack and slash fun much like GW2 which i gotten the same enjoyment out of D3 for that.
EQ2 = END OF LIFE GAME never going to return to is former glory period. so F2P is a good idea to make just a bit more money before shutting down
Rift = Yes crap end game is 5 man instances because few ever raid 20 man raids. O BTW TRION is a $30 Million revenue company with almost $200 Million is debt (From End of Nations and Defiance) So they went F2P to make money back for their investors. Yes RIFT is crap you can buy gear.
Get over it. Get better grades and maybe mommy will consider a steady $13 a month instead of $5 now and then for cash shop items.
P.S.: Sorry you lost your WoW account. There is always next semester.
Are you seriously whining about paying less than 50 cents a day for 24 hours of playtime?
Man I love F2P/B2P too but P2P is not expensive.
Just admit you are one of those people that want everything free and let the thread die.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
O really they are better as a F2P game then P2P because they are good quality games? If it was a good quality game people are willing to pay for a subscription, UO, EQ1/2, FFXI, DAOC, AC, and WOW all proved that point. If they are not worth it people will not pay a subscription but they will gladly play for Free, or they will spend a 1 time cost to have it for life. So no its not opinion its fact because people have already paid for quality games more than played poor games for Free.
I would be in favor of "FTP with subscription server's" and "subscription only server's"
Personally I much prefer subscriptions for the game's I play. I don't like the nickel and diming of FTP and when I read about people blowing $700 or more in a month of FTP-ing I just gotta shake my head and sigh.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But these are the same people that tell you the game is FREE TO PLAY!. What is funny I spent about $1300 is subscriptions for 10 years of WoW. Compared to 1 month of people spending $700 in FREE 2 Play games. Who got the better end of the deal?????
F2P will do nothing to allow people to enjoy the game more. F2P simply does not make a game worth playing, if a game is not worth paying $0.32/hr (which is only like 10hr a week, which is on the low side of average playtime) the game is probably a steaming pile of crap to being with.
Example:
If you quit rift during p2p did going f2p make the game more enjoyable? No
Did ToR going f2p fix all the bugs and reason why people quit? No, ToR should of never been a mmo, it is actualy a good game story wise if you do not consider it a mmo. Should of just been like Diablo and had a multiplayer mode.
Did Aion going f2p make it the WoW killer everyone said it would? No ... hell did it fix the population problem? No
Did EQ2 going f2p make it as popular as EQ1? No
F2P is a model that uses a term which is more or less a lie, "Free to Play", to get people to pay more per month to enjoy the game. People are just gullable enough to buy into the marketing ploy. To play a F2P game like a P2P game the average player will spend 5-10xs more. Only the free loaders or people using it as a filler mmo will benefit from f2p, people the companys should not even care about.
SE is taking the correct stance with the game. Either it is good enough for a sub or they shut it down. Honestly all mmos should follow this model. Not attempt to try to rip off your customers with unfair advantages or game elements in a cash shop.
I honestly do not see f2p being a movement. I just see tons of mmos that lack a reason to sub. (The WoW model is proven to be a failure in all mmos outside WoW). WE keep getting themeparks with massive lack of content, bugs, limited content, low group content, no solo content, and/or subpar story. The mmo simply has to be worth a sub. If you can get the same thing in a non-sub game then the sub is not justified. Why is every mmo going f2p... because almost every mmo since WoW has epically failed in one or more of the key areas.
Honestly XIV:ARR is highly questionable... they are following the WoW model. If people are forced to wait for content at endgame... XIV will follow the other clones to F2P land. If XIV's endgame is like XI's where you have nearly unlimited content then it will easily stay p2p. Game pre endgame already has 2-3xs the content of almost everyother mmo that was released.
The majority of beta testers are very pro-p2p atm. I would say nearly 20:1 in favor of p2p based off the forum post over there. There is a large amount of people willing to support the game with a sub. It just has to be good.
Will see you in FFXIV in two months, the F2P version. The first version of the game was not a sucess even if subs grew. I think SE is putting in a lot of resources to make this game profitable. I hope I a wrong and they do well, but looking at other mmos in the past, most of them went F2P and became profitable. I would suspect SE to do,the same. Sorry you think everyone on this forum is poor and still in school. Bad to just make assumptions like that.
F2P invites all the worst players.
Players who don't want to actually play the game, just to grief players.
F2P models are also more expensive for long term player base than a subscription based game.
Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
Battle Station
Like the community in WoW is any better?
Quality doesn't always reflect in good game play. Again you are mixing up two different things. SWTOR spent millions probably the most expensive game to this date and yet it didn't help it. In the end it is the over all gameplay that counts. TSW had maybe fraction of SWTOR budget and it has more quality than SWTOR ever did and yet it had to go F2P.
All the MMOS that you mentioned are from 10 years ago when P2P was the only option and there wasn't cut throat competiton among MMOS. WOW made MMOS mainstream and with influx of so many players it started to get harder and harder for MMOS to sustain subs long terms due to so many choices available to players.
When i was playing EQ back then i didn't have many choices. So nope it is your opinion and not a fact. Being a good MMO got nothing to do with P2P model.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
Thats because all the games since WoW have not been worth the money that was invested. Thats why they are Free 2 Play period. FYI yes F2P was around 10 years ago. In the ways of Runescape and GW1. However they were small niche games. Yes WoW mainstreamed the MMO market a little bit however the games after WoW did not improve upon what wow did only copied and pasted it into their own world. Thats why they were not worth subscriptions. Also Every company is spending near hundred million to be the next WoW. Problem is spending money will not mean you make a successful MMO. SWTOR comes to mind. Good game however not worth spending a subscription for more than 1 or 2 months at a time every 5 to 7 months.
FFXIV has improved on some of the WOW success plus they did not spend $100 Million to remake FFXIV. I bet they spent around half of that. They are also not Aiming to be the next WoW. They are Aiming to be FFXI 2.0 where they have about 500K subs which will sustain their game. LOTRO, RIFT, SWTOR TSW and the list goes on which having investors spending near if not over 100 Million and expecting to be WoW 2.0. Not the Standard Subscription based MMO which FFXIV is trying to be.
So you are telling me WOW was the only last good themepark MMO ever made and since then FFXIV is the only MMO worth the sub fee? Well that is a very tall claim to make and i commend your confidence in SE and FFXIV. Not that many are going to agree with you though.
GW1 wasn't F2P it was B2P. And as far as Runescape is concerned we are talking about AAA MMOS here, if i start including every F2P MMO out there then yes there were many F2P MMOS of shoddy quality available.
As far as budget is concerned. MMOS that spent 100 million are F2P now and the MMOS that spent even half of it also went F2P. That should tell you something.
Also i find it ironic that you give the reason for MMOS going F2P in last 4 or 5 years is because they tried to copy WOW..well what do you think FFXIV ARR is doing?
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
For something that does not want to be the next WoW, the game sure does play just like WoW and not like any Final Fantasy console game. It is just like playing WoW with a Final Fantasy setting. Yeah, there are some things different like the job system, but the core game is very similar. It has plenty of those kill 10 rats quests common in most mmos. With that being said, what makes you think the game will survive in a sub only model and will not eventually go F2P like other WoW clones in the past?