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The virtual world feeling

Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
What MMo feels most like a virtual world and least like a game, and why do you think so?

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

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Comments

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon

    swg because there was so much more to do than combat. mmos are in a bad habit right now of putting the overwhelming majority if its resources into the combat system and combat centric systems. Other systems feel like an afterthought or fluff. This leaves the mmo feeling more "gamey" than "virtual worldy"

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon

    Wushu.

     

    Everything you do effects the NPCs around you, for good or for bad.

     

    The terran doesn't change but the landscape does through guild territory control.

     

    Players become NPCs when offline and do 100's of different jobs around the cities and country side.

     

    17 or 18 professions ranging from, fisher man, to musician, to calligrapher. You might run up a hill and see a person transcribing poems or playing music 

     

    Everything is playable from roof tops to bottoms of lakes, this creates so many nooks and crannies. 98% of the time if you see it, you can go there.

     

    Grass moving, trees blowing, leaves falling, bird flying, and come augast 8th day/night/weather cycles and seasons that effect crops, gathering and skills.

  • TerranahTerranah Stockton, CAPosts: 3,605Member

    When I typically think of a virtual world, I think of ambient noises, weather changes, elements of landscape movement like swaying trees or flowers and grass.  Also, long view distances with the ability to explore unhindered by loading screens and free or mostly free of instancing.

     

    But the game that most had me immersed was Precu SWG for it's gameplay elements and features.  The ability to level something up by doing it, mix and match interests to create hybrid classes, interdependency and crafting depth, as well as the freedom to build, design and grow player cities really made it feel like a world to me.

     

    I guess that goes to the heart of what the word 'virtual' means and it's really a subjective thing.  Precu SWG felt like a very immersive or virtual world because it had the ability to suspend my sense of reality and invest and immerse myself in character. 

  • DihoruDihoru ConstantaPosts: 2,731Member
    EVE-Online and now looking forward to MO when I get the time (the crafting and the first person view where you look down and see your own legs sold me... that and the vistas) to see if I get the VW vibe.

    image
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Sad thing, but the mentioned SWG pre CU does no longer excist.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place:

    1. Housing

    2. Non-combat classes/professions

     

    Another big one that is important to many is:

    3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)

     

    These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.

     

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,544Member Uncommon
    No game has been better than UO so far.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

    Top 3 MMORPGs played: UO, AC1 and WoW

    Honorable mentions: AO, LotRO, SW:TOR and GW2.

    ----------------

    "The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
    So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.

  • stevebombsquadstevebombsquad Orlando, FLPosts: 842Member Uncommon
    SWG and UO for sure. 

    James T. Kirk: All she's got isn't good enough! What else ya got?

  • TorikTorik London, ONPosts: 2,343Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Sad thing, but the mentioned SWG pre CU does no longer excist.

    For me the virtual world SWG stopped existing even before CU.  I was greatly immersed in the game at first but after months of playing the 'world feeling' was eroded by the deficiencies of the game and it stopped feeling like a world to me.

  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock

    I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place:

    1. Housing

    2. Non-combat classes/professions

     

    Another big one that is important to many is:

    3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)

     

    These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.

     

    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

     

    Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • TorcipTorcip Sterling Heights, MIPosts: 669Member

    EVE online is the most fleshed out virtual "world" of any MMO. If any game emulated being an actual person in a living breathing universe, it's that game.

    I think the biggest factor of creating a virtual world is to create a world, and not a zone.  In zones every single piece of the background and environment is meant to accomplish something.  Worlds where places exist simply for existing is what makes the difference in playing a game and being in a virtual world. That and having more things to do than just fighting things.

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko RotterdamPosts: 3,845Member Uncommon

    Pre-NGE SWG was the most recent "complete" virtual world MMO. It became a lot less of a virtual world after the themepark-ification of the NGE though.

     

    EVE-Online is my second favourite virtual world. I would vote it number 1, but not while I'm only a spaceship in the game, lol.

     

    MO had lots of promise as a virtual world candidate, but the development progress has been glacially slow, and frankly I've come to the conclusion that the tiny dev team simply doesn't have the skill and/or resources to deliver what they intended to.

     

    As a lifelong "virtual world fan", I guess EQNext is my best hope, and that's a very faint hope indeed...

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

     

    Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



    Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

    things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

     

    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

     

    Nah .. the original EQ felt like a boring GAME to me.

    Camping all day .. don't tell me sitting in a room with 50 other groups taking a number waiting so that you can kill the boss in 20 second with zero challenge is very virtual world like for you.

    If so .. i am glad MMOs are more games like than virtual world like today.

  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member
     I have to agree with EvE online. The vastness of its 'world' ie. universe and the choices in how to play can really strengthen tht sense of  immersion...IF you enjoy this type of game.
  • Lord.BachusLord.Bachus Den HelderPosts: 9,064Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

     

     

    Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .


    Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

     

    things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.

    Fully agree with you on this, the only thing i want to see in numbers are my own stats and the stats on my gear...  But no floating damage numbers in the air or pop ups telling me i got Xp for some dumb actions..

     

    We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.

    Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Foomerang
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those

     

    Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .



    Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"

    things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.




    We could describe that aspect of Virtual Worldness like so:

    If the world that a player occupies has content that doesn't relate to the player's progression in the world, which the player can choose to explore or participate in, then the world will feel more like a virtual world rather than a game world.

    Does that sound OK?

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by BadSpock I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place: 1. Housing 2. Non-combat classes/professions   Another big one that is important to many is: 3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)   These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.  
    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of those     Problem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .
    Perhaps its the trend to have every aspect of a game itemized, tracked, displayed by a numerical value, and put into an achievement system. You cant escape the "game" so to speak. You cant explore over that hill without a message popping up on the screen saying "DISCOVERED THE OTHER SIDE OF THAT HILL! +10 exploration points. Cash in your exploration points for exciting rewards!"   things like that run rampant in games these days, so trying to make it feel more organic is difficult with so many artificially imposed reward systems.
    Fully agree with you on this, the only thing i want to see in numbers are my own stats and the stats on my gear...  But no floating damage numbers in the air or pop ups telling me i got Xp for some dumb actions..

     

    We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.



    Im with you on that
  • ReallyNow10ReallyNow10 Pile It High Town, LAPosts: 2,010Member Common
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    What MMo feels most like a virtual world and least like a game, and why do you think so?

    Early U.O. and early EQ.  The reason being that these games did not micromanage the players' paths and allowed them to set out and explore freely (within their abilities) a mysterious world.  There was no instancing (in the true sense) and the world environment was shared with players who fought, traveled, crafted, bartered and sold, and socialized; all giving the feeling of a medieval community.  Your character LIVED in the game world.

    No single player design will ever match that.  Oh, it might give you an interesting once-through experience, but there is minimal cooperation/interaction with other players, minimal choices (you are on a path), and such a world feels like a collection of stage backdrops.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.

    No we shouldn't.

    The reason we have all those numbers is by popular demand.

    When WOW was first release, you don't see HP and hit numbers. People developed add-ons to estimate mob hp, and those become popular. Blizz can fight them .. so blizz joined them and put in the numbers.

    Immersion and virtual world feeling is apparent not that important for many players.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by ReallyNow10
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
    What MMo feels most like a virtual world and least like a game, and why do you think so?

    Early U.O. and early EQ.  The reason being that these games did not micromanage the players' paths and allowed them to set out and explore freely (within their abilities) a mysterious world.  There was no instancing (in the true sense) and the world environment was shared with players who fought, traveled, crafted, bartered and sold, and socialized; all giving the feeling of a medieval community.  Your character LIVED in the game world.

    No single player design will ever match that.  Oh, it might give you an interesting once-through experience, but there is minimal cooperation/interaction with other players, minimal choices (you are on a path), and such a world feels like a collection of stage backdrops.

    U4 .. U6 .. or may be even U7.

    At least in those SP games, i don't have gankers camping newbie spawn spot, and use l33t speak to insult you after they kill and loot you.

    I would much rather play U6 than UO.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,262Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.

    No we shouldn't.

    The reason we have all those numbers is by popular demand.

    When WOW was first release, you don't see HP and hit numbers. People developed add-ons to estimate mob hp, and those become popular. Blizz can fight them .. so blizz joined them and put in the numbers.

    Immersion and virtual world feeling is apparent not that important for many players.

    That's funny, I never knew that. Mobs in Wushu do not show HP, players don't show to other players either.

  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Sioux City, IAPosts: 3,828Member


    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

    Originally posted by BadSpock
    I think for a game to really have that virtual world feeling it really only needs two major systems in place:
    1. Housing
    2. Non-combat classes/professionsAnother big one that is important to many is:
    3. Territorial control PvP (be it faction, guild, RvR, etc.)These very simple criteria put games like UO, SWG, and EvE in their proper place as true "virtual worlds" - though the housing aspect of EvE is a bit... odd? Non-standard compared to say UO/SWG.

    Actually to me the orriginal EQ felt very much like a virtual world and less like a game, and they didn´t have any of thoseProblem for me is i have a very hard time for myself to indentify what exactly gives me that virtuall world feeling, i however realise that games like GW2 really feel like games and not like worlds .
    It is tough to identify what makes an MMORPG feel like a virtual world. I am with you with EQ. It was the dark nights, the crickets chirping, the change of monsters during the night cycle in some zones, the sound of the ocean when on a boat or on shore, zones not defined by "level X to level X+5" Mobs in the zone, and other "little things" that have to do with ambiance.

    It really boils down to, for me, how the world "fits together." Does it make sense? Do the many varied aspects go hand in hand? Do the NPCs feel "alive?"

    I do like BadSpock's first 2 examples. the first gives my character a "home" to call his own in the virtual world. The second means my character does not have to fight whenever he logs in (or appears).

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,564Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.
    No we shouldn't.

    The reason we have all those numbers is by popular demand.

    When WOW was first release, you don't see HP and hit numbers. People developed add-ons to estimate mob hp, and those become popular. Blizz can fight them .. so blizz joined them and put in the numbers.

    Immersion and virtual world feeling is apparent not that important for many players.


    I dunno about that. Take Guild Wars 2 for example. This is currently the flagship mmo for esport style combat and wvw pvp. And everyone is going nuts over....kites. You dont think thats an obvious sign that people want their mmos to be more immersive? We take any hint of qol content like a glass of water in the sahara desert.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by nariusseldon

    Originally posted by Lord.Bachus We should get away of all those numbers, going back to  hitpoint bars, maybe with a % in it, but nothing more. and get away with mob levels and come bring back the con colors, numbers are killing immersion, and immersion is needed for a virtual world feeling.
    No we shouldn't.

     

    The reason we have all those numbers is by popular demand.

    When WOW was first release, you don't see HP and hit numbers. People developed add-ons to estimate mob hp, and those become popular. Blizz can fight them .. so blizz joined them and put in the numbers.

    Immersion and virtual world feeling is apparent not that important for many players.


     

    I dunno about that. Take Guild Wars 2 for example. This is currently the flagship mmo for esport style combat and wvw pvp. And everyone is going nuts over....kites. You dont think thats an obvious sign that people want their mmos to be more immersive? We take any hint of qol content like a glass of water in the sahara desert.

    If immersion does not conflict with progression, or convenience .. sure.

    Do you see lots of players asking to remove LFD because it is immersion breaking? Instead, people QQ about games without it. Look at what happen with TOR.

     

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