Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

pvp

zeusypoofszeusypoofs sturgeon bay, WIPosts: 24Member

Is pvp only going to be massive battles for keeps or will there be 10v10 capture the flag and other gametypes?

 

I would really like  to see 2v2, and 3v3!

«1

Comments

  • HoiPoloiHoiPoloi Jackson, DEPosts: 86Member Uncommon

    There will be no arenas, or battlegrounds.  All PvP takes place in the huge Cyrodill area.

    However, since it's so big, the chances are good all types of PvP will happen:  solo, small group up to zergs.

    They could still f*** it up somehow, like GW2 did.  But since it's so big, and PvP is the main endgame, the odds are better it will work.

    Thrumdi of the TTC

  • gamekid2kgamekid2k Austin, TXPosts: 360Member
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp.  They will not have open world pvp.  Just in one area.  For me this is really immersion breaking.  Only good thing is if ESO sucks I will have SKyrim which I like and other pvp MMO I play like Darkfall . 

    Now Playing: DARKFALL Unholy Wars "Return to Open World, Full Loot PvP, Conquest in a Sandbox MMO with player driven economy! Just like classic MMOs!"

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 

    Yep totally agree with you.

    Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........

     

    I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 

    Yep totally agree with you.

    Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........

     

    I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........

    Yeah... I miss the good ole days of single player PVP games. Remember those? I can't, but maybe you can?

  • keithiankeithian Los Angeles, CAPosts: 3,042Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp.  They will not have open world pvp.  Just in one area.  For me this is really immersion breaking.  Only good thing is if ESO sucks I will have SKyrim which I like and other pvp MMO I play.

    You guys are so ridiculous. This isn't Skyrim, they have a solid group working on PVP, the one area is huge so stop getting hung up over the 'one area' part. It may fail, it may not, lets wait and see.

    There Is Always Hope!

  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by gamekid2k Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 
    Yep totally agree with you. Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........   I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........
    Yeah... I miss the good ole days of single player PVP games. Remember those? I can't, but maybe you can?

    IKR? ES is also not known for grouping up with other players and playing with your friends, its weird that an mmo would have mmo features.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 

    Yep totally agree with you.

    Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........

     

    I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........

    Yeah... I miss the good ole days of single player PVP games. Remember those? I can't, but maybe you can?

    If you played the whole TES series, you know what I am talking about.

    Of course there is no PvP in single players games, but there are single players games that can easily translate into MMO PvP games.

    TES is not one of them in my opinion.

     

    I know that this is not Skyrim Online, problem is...........................it really should.

  • QuickShatterQuickShatter Everett, WAPosts: 12Member

    I really think you guys aren't giving the Game Devs enough credit. They understand what they are up agianst with ESO. we have finally returned to an MMO universe of diversity, so competition is everywhere. Also they have not only the MMO veterans to worry about but this vast horde of Elder's scroll fans who've been playing since fucking Morrowind.

    Since we've haven't had a beta test , who knows wtf they are doing with PVP for all we know they could lind side us and have a portion of the PvP zone for Battleground like instances and Arena. See They are trying to make this game appealing to everyone. from RPG guys to competetive shit talkers, we all should know a good majority of us did our time living it up it Azeroth * Don't lie you were there too*.

    Yeah the Morale for this game seems pretty low but hey we've got over half a year worth of waiting time and upcoming Beta, I'm sure you Bethesda won't completely fuck the game up. also dude fucking patches fix everything this wish list of features and items you guys wants for ESO, just have a little patience and before you know it we'll have 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 tournements every FRIDAY :D

    ALL I"M SAYING IS MMO BRETHREN HAVE A LITTLE FAITH!!!

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 

    Yep totally agree with you.

    Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........

     

    I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........

    Yeah... I miss the good ole days of single player PVP games. Remember those? I can't, but maybe you can?

    If you played the whole TES series, you know what I am talking about.

    Of course there is no PvP in single players games, but there are single players games that can easily translate into MMO PvP games.

    TES is not one of them in my opinion.

     

    I know that this is not Skyrim Online, problem is...........................it really should.

    The thing is... I played them all and no, I don't know what you're talking about. Tamriel has always had its fair share of assassinations, revolts, civil wars, inter-provincial wars. Even when there have been greater threats from daedras and most of Tamriel has come together to fight the greater foe, there have been subplots highlighting the constant turmoil between the many different factions.

     

    A game that takes place at a time when the daedra have been mostly successful with their attack focused on the imperial province and de-stabilizing the empire, which sees three hastily formed coalitions attempt to fight off the daedra while simultaneously trying to become the new dominant power, fits the TES lore to a T.

     

    Implying that TES lore is not conducive to PVP or that "other single player games" are more so, is not even orthodox lore...it's just plain wrong and totally misses the whole point of both the TES games and this MMO.

  • killahhkillahh calgary, ABPosts: 437Member

    wow

    dont hate too much, teso can be a great mmorpg, and considering how much  npc combat you do, i believe it can easily translate into a pvp and pve mmorpg.

     

     and yes i have every one  of the elder scrolls games,  on pc,  on ps3 and loved every one, even the buggy morrow.

     

    Gonada Dahung,over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting....Please Lord, let someone make a game that had all the awesomeness of UO, EQ and EVE...

  • superconductingsuperconducting Rochester, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by zeusypoofs

    Is pvp only going to be massive battles for keeps or will there be 10v10 capture the flag and other gametypes?

     

    I would really like  to see 2v2, and 3v3!

    Unfortunately, no. I was kinda upset there was no arenas or dueling yet (which was my question to Paul Sage on the Q&A).

    image
  • baphametbaphamet omaha, NEPosts: 2,838Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Iselin Originally posted by ste2000 Originally posted by gamekid2k Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 
    Yep totally agree with you. Unfortunately the Marketing Department said that you cannot make a MMO without PvP so ESO will have PvP...........   I genuinelly hope that with Firor experience (DAOC) Zenimax will make PvP work in ESO, but judging from what another DAOC  developer (Mark Jacobs) did with WAR, I wouldn't hold my breath...........
    Yeah... I miss the good ole days of single player PVP games. Remember those? I can't, but maybe you can?
    If you played the whole TES series, you know what I am talking about.

    Of course there is no PvP in single players games, but there are single players games that can easily translate into MMO PvP games.

    TES is not one of them in my opinion.

     

    I know that this is not Skyrim Online, problem is...........................it really should.


    why do you say that it cannot easily translate into a pvp mmo? pvp that is actually designated to a certain area on the side?

    the main areas where you do the pve will be unaffected other than the factions and race lock.

    i think they are doing the smart thing by putting in pvp as an option

  • zainx2zainx2 Los Angeles, CAPosts: 2Member
    I feel like the PvP in ESO will work out rather well. Since its an open PvP world, it encourages you to travel with friends and it seems that it would be impossible to avoid PvP while having a MMO with three factions.
  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp.  They will not have open world pvp.  Just in one area.  For me this is really immersion breaking.  Only good thing is if ESO sucks I will have SKyrim which I like and other pvp MMO I play like Darkfall . 

    Well maybe not open world in the games sense but the Cyrodiil will be as big as it was in Oblivion.

  • ShauneepeakShauneepeak Biddeford, MEPosts: 421Member
    Originally posted by superconducting
    Originally posted by zeusypoofs

    Is pvp only going to be massive battles for keeps or will there be 10v10 capture the flag and other gametypes?

     

    I would really like  to see 2v2, and 3v3!

    Unfortunately, no. I was kinda upset there was no arenas or dueling yet (which was my question to Paul Sage on the Q&A).

    I feel like this will quickly change after launch when they realize the harsh reality that Arena pvp is one of the few pvp options casuals will actually enjoy. Also everyone wants to be able to challenge their friends now and then.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by ste2000


     

    why do you say that it cannot easily translate into a pvp mmo? pvp that is actually designated to a certain area on the side?

    the main areas where you do the pve will be unaffected other than the factions and race lock.

    i think they are doing the smart thing by putting in pvp as an option

    Yes but you didn't put into account all the collateral damage that involves.

    The Class balance and skills will have to take into consideration the PvP combat, and that's not a good thing for the RPG part of the game.

    Just look at the drama the continuous nerfing creates in games such as WoW, everytime Blizzard tries to balance a class in PvP, it creates unbalance in the PvE skills, and viceversa.

    ESO has lots of skills that are specifically designed to work well with NPCs, but are out of place in a PvP environment.

    Abilities like Stealing for example, might not get into the game because they don't fit a PvP environment.

    Other Combat skills might have to be watered down because they could be overpowered in PvP.

    In General, in a PvP game all skills and classes have to be similar so to allow everyone to be competitive against another player, while in TES the skills are pretty unique, which makes playing a class rather than another more fu, and not just a matter of aesthetics (like in almost any MMO that came out after WoW).

     

     

     

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by baphamet

     


    Originally posted by ste2000


     

    why do you say that it cannot easily translate into a pvp mmo? pvp that is actually designated to a certain area on the side?

    the main areas where you do the pve will be unaffected other than the factions and race lock.

    i think they are doing the smart thing by putting in pvp as an option

    Yes but you didn't put into account all the collateral damage that involves.

    The Class balance and skills will have to take into consideration the PvP combat, and that's not a good thing for the RPG part of the game.

    Just look at the drama the continuous nerfing creates in games such as WoW, everytime Blizzard tries to balance a class in PvP, it creates unbalance in the PvE skills, and viceversa.

    ESO has lots of skills that are specifically designed to work well with NPCs, but are out of place in a PvP environment.

    Abilities like Stealing for example, might not get into the game because they don't fit a PvP environment.

    Other Combat skills might have to be watered down because they could be overpowered in PvP.

    In General, in a PvP game all skills and classes have to be similar so to allow everyone to be competitive against another player, while in TES the skills are pretty unique, which makes playing a class rather than another more fu, and not just a matter of aesthetics (like in almost any MMO that came out after WoW).

     

     

     

    The funny thing is, to me balancing for both PVE and PVP is an easy task. If you have NPCs have levels exactly like players and have all the same exact skills, health, stamnia, ect. When you balance it, it would simply work for both. Meaning a NPC that is level 10 is equally as hard as a player at Level 10. However, of course a player will be smarter, but that would really be the only difference. This really would only work for humanoid NPCs, but it would balance both styles at the same time.

    Though I could be totally wrong about this lol XD.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by ste2000
     

    The funny thing is, to me balancing for both PVE and PVP is an easy task. If you have NPCs have levels exactly like players and have all the same exact skills, health, stamnia, ect. When you balance it, it would simply work for both. Meaning a NPC that is level 10 is equally as hard as a player at Level 10. However, of course a player will be smarter, but that would really be the only difference. This really would only work for humanoid NPCs, but it would balance both styles at the same time.

    Though I could be totally wrong about this lol XD.

    It's harder than you think.

    The most difficult things to balance are the CC (Crowd Control) skills.

    While it is fine to lock an NPC for 5 seconds, it is not ok to lock a Player for 5 seconds and killing him in 3 seconds (WoW rogues spring to my mind)

    If you want to have distinctive classes in RPGs like the Tank (high Def - low DPS), the Buffers (support),  Crowd Controlers, Healers and the DPS, you can't have PvP, because all those type of roles are so different that cannot guarantee a fair PvP fight.

    In order to have a fair PvP fight, all the classes (or roles) should be almost identical, so one class doesn't have a clear advantage on another.

     

    One of the reason why recent MMO are so shallow is because the PvE is generally linear, the classes don't feel much different but in name, and tactics and group play are almost inexistent.

    That's due partly because of the need for the classes to be not too different from each other so that PvP is fair.

     

    I think ESO needs strong classes and roles to give the characteristic TES feel, but with PvP, I don't think that would be possible.

    Anyway PvP is in ESO and it's there to stay, I just hope it doesn't do too much damage to the PvE part of the game.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by gamekid2k
    Elder Scrolls is not known as a pvp. 

    Yep totally agree with you.

    The world of the Elderscrolls is all about war. Fuck, war was the big plot point of the last THREE games.

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Brabbit1987
    Originally posted by ste2000
     

    The funny thing is, to me balancing for both PVE and PVP is an easy task. If you have NPCs have levels exactly like players and have all the same exact skills, health, stamnia, ect. When you balance it, it would simply work for both. Meaning a NPC that is level 10 is equally as hard as a player at Level 10. However, of course a player will be smarter, but that would really be the only difference. This really would only work for humanoid NPCs, but it would balance both styles at the same time.

    Though I could be totally wrong about this lol XD.

    It's harder than you think.

    The most difficult things to balance are the CC (Crowd Control) skills.

    While it is fine to lock an NPC for 5 seconds, it is not ok to lock a Player for 5 seconds and killing him in 3 seconds (WoW rogues spring to my mind)

    If you want to have distinctive classes in RPGs like the Tank (high Def - low DPS), the Buffers (support),  Crowd Controlers, Healers and the DPS, you can't have PvP, because all those type of roles are so different that cannot guarantee a fair PvP fight.

    In order to have a fair PvP fight, all the classes (or roles) should be almost identical, so one class doesn't have a clear advantage on another.

     

    One of the reason why recent MMO are so shallow is because the PvE is generally linear, the classes don't feel much different but in name, and tactics and group play are almost inexistent.

    That's due partly because of the need for the classes to be not too different from each other so that PvP is fair.

     

    I think ESO needs strong classes and roles to give the characteristic TES feel, but with PvP, I don't think that would be possible.

    Anyway PvP is in ESO and it's there to stay, I just hope it doesn't do too much damage to the PvE part of the game.

    So you've gone from "it doesn't fit the lore" to "it can't be balanced and therefore the PVE suffers"--which is the standard anti-PVP default argument--fair enough, but...

     

    In this particular MMO, if you do more research than just take a quick glance and watch an interview or 2 (I suggest this site for real no BS info: http://tamrielfoundry.com/development-faq/ ) you'll know that stealth, cc, breaking CC and sprint, all useful PVP abilities, are limited by the same resource: stamina.

     

    Then there's the fact that the class abilities that need to be balanced (because they are the only abilities unique to each of the 4 archetypes) are maybe 20% of the abilities any player can have. The other 80% are abilities that are not class restricted and any player can have or use. These include ALL the weapon and armor skill lines as well as the lycanthrope and vampirism lines, Then there are the guild-specific skill lines: mage's & companion's definitely at launch with Thieve's and Dark Brotherhood not far behind. And by the way, all active class abilities used by all classes are Magika-limited... yes, all 4 classes are users of one or another school of magic.

     

    This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

     

    Now...you may not like PVP and that's certainly your prerogative. And I'm not trying to sell you this game so I won't try to tell you that "there is still tons for you to do anyway"... which is true enough when the Zmax marketing people tell you that. But that's only a half-truth. The real honest answer is that if you truly are PVP-phobic, you should look elsewhere because a HUGE portion of the development focus for this MMO is PVP.

     

    So sorry to have to break it to you. 

  • NoLifeNerd20NoLifeNerd20 tucson, AZPosts: 15Member
    I've never been a big supporter of pvp myself (probaley because im so terrible at it in all the other mmos I played) but TESO has me wanting to at least give it a try and it brings some mechanics that I as a former/returning mmo/pc gamer have not seen before (It has literally been about 5 years since i've played an online game so this has me hopeful.)
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCPosts: 5,611Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by NoLifeNerd20
    I've never been a big supporter of pvp myself (probaley because im so terrible at it in all the other mmos I played) but TESO has me wanting to at least give it a try and it brings some mechanics that I as a former/returning mmo/pc gamer have not seen before (It has literally been about 5 years since i've played an online game so this has me hopeful.)

    You certainly won't be the only one. This is not the type of game that appeals to the "uberleet" PVPers. They have Mortal Online and DFUW for that. PVP here is also primarily group-based and large-fight oriented--not so much the 1-on-1 duel-like encounters (although that's available as well if you want to roam as a lone wolf.) It's easier to just go with the flow and get better at PVP in this type of game than in the scenario-based type where each individual has more responsibility due to the small number of players. In this type of PVP people will help you and take up your slack as you improve. There is no better environment for learning how to PVP than this.

     

    PVPing in MMOs is just a learned skill and not that tough to improve--learning to raid against tough bosses in PVE is actually harder to learn. But some skills are very similar to raiding skills. Especially the need to move constantly, be aware of your surrounding and react quickly to the unexpected.

  • ste2000ste2000 londonPosts: 4,705Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by ste2000

     

    This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

     

    So sorry to have to break it to you. 

    You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

    My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

    Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

    PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

    I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

     

    And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

    Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

     

     

     

  • Brabbit1987Brabbit1987 Ontario, CanadaPosts: 729Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ste2000
    Originally posted by Iselin
    Originally posted by ste2000

     

    This ain't pre-cataclysm WOW. There is neither perma-stealth nor do you have to PVP as a tank if you like to PVE as one. This is not being designed as a PVE game with tacked-on PVP as is the case with most themeparks and why they all feel so lacking in that respect. PVP is an integral part of the design of this game.

     

    So sorry to have to break it to you. 

    You haven't said anything that I didn't know already.

    My point is that the game SHOULD have been designed as a PvE game, because the PvP will inevitably unbalance the PvE for the reason I stated in my previous post.

    Also just because there is war in Tamriel that doesn't mean that automatically the game should include PvP, you can easily fight wars against NPCs..............after all you do that in the single player games.

    PvP don't add anything to the game and will attract the E-gamers that inevitably will ruin the immersion and the "magic" of Tamriel.

    I am convinced that this game will have a mediocre PvE, and a Mediocre PvP, like most of the MMO who share the same philosophy...................PvP and PvE don't go well together, WoW was a one off on this subject (like for everything else).

     

    And you shouldn't be sorry for me, but with Zenimax, because they will be terribly disappointed by the poor player retention.

    Because I am sure they will sell millions of copies (I will buy one regardless), but I am sure they won't retain many of those players after 1-2 months.

     

     

     

    You know the funny thing is, I am not  abig fan of PVP, but I most certainly do not think it doesn't add anything to a game. 

    It throws off PVE? Well then why don't they just balance it? You know, like they are suppose to do? I really am confused on what makes you think having pvp in a game automatically unbalances the pve and why you act like there is no way to balance it. 

    In my honest opinion, I think you are thinking WAY to much into it. Making WAY too many assumptions based on little merit.

    I realize balancing a game can be hard, but you clearly are acting like it's an impossible thing to do which it isn't.

  • zeusypoofszeusypoofs sturgeon bay, WIPosts: 24Member
    well i know this is a little to early to talk about end game, but i dont want to do the same old fighting for keeps when i cap. im just saying i would like more options for PvP.
«1
Sign In or Register to comment.