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Vanguard revisited worth another go ?

Tindale111Tindale111 croydonPosts: 197Member
Vanguard is over 6 years old now ,and was probarly one of the worst marketed mmos ever .on top of that when it came out had so many bugs and wouldn't run well on most machines .I remember having great fun on their tho and only stopped playing because servers were dead .just gave it another shot and was pleasantly surprised ,it still looks good ok character creation tho good looks a bit pants but costumes ,weapons etc look good .there were /are a lot of innovations in this game as well the way you can combine spells ,crafting is one of the best ive seen and diplomacy that I haven't seen in any other game .the combat is solid and looks good and pretty certain all the bugs have long gone. anyway if your just looking for a filler before the next big mmo why not give it a try its free to dl and play does have a cashshop which I had a quicjk browse through dosnt seem too intrusive tho it looks like keys for lockboxes on their .on a final note the servers seem to be buzzing again so shouldn't be any problems finding groups .
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Comments

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    Vanguard is always worth going back to. I find myself returning 2-3 times a year. The world, and its subtle storyline, is simply one of the best in the MMO space.

    It has, without a doubt, the best dungeons. Each NPC lives in its own house you can go into, they all have dialogue and things you can learn from. Diplomacy system is genius. One of the best crafting systems there is. It's just an amazing game, despite the changes SoE have made over the years. And the bugs are long since gone.

  • WereLlamaWereLlama Lubbock, TXPosts: 243Member

    I think Vanguard as a traditional MMO is dead.

    That being said I truly believe if they reworked the game considering the following, it might work:

    1.  Keep all the models/animations/levels

    2.  Build a much simpler front end on tablets and other mobile devices.   

    3.  Give lesser abilities but allow them to become emergent via interaction with other players.

    4. Allow for assynchronous interaction between players (like from popular social games today).

    5. Re-brand and Re-launch under a different name

    Keep it small, maybe a 500,000$ budget.  

    -WL

  • faxnadufaxnadu HelsinkiPosts: 940Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    i feel the same, week revisit is too long tho i usually dies after going back and remembering everything that could have been and then im out.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    That is always the problem with games.

    Implementation, polish, details are more important (at least to me) in games than the high concept.

     

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.


    Vanguard had the potential to be this, but failed when $OE insisted that key WoW gameplay elements be added in. $OE effectively killed this game while very publicly being heralded as saving it.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    That is always the problem with games.

    Implementation, polish, details are more important (at least to me) in games than the high concept.

     

    i would argue with that

    wow, gw2, rift, swtor ..... - more or less any newer AAA title - they all have good implementation, polish, detail .... and i have no desire at all to play them, simply because their concept isnt appealing to me.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

    noone is forcing you to do the quests and interacts with npcs

    i certainly dont when i play vanguard :) i just ignore them and roam around killing what i meet :)

  • CamoebCamoeb Goshen, CTPosts: 53Member
    I had such high hopes for VG before it launched. The game was such a huge letdown I still periodically try to go back to it and every time I'm reminded of how terrible it is and why I left it within a month of launch in the first place.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    That is always the problem with games.

    Implementation, polish, details are more important (at least to me) in games than the high concept.

     

    i would argue with that

    wow, gw2, rift, swtor ..... - more or less any newer AAA title - they all have good implementation, polish, detail .... and i have no desire at all to play them, simply because their concept isnt appealing to me.

    You have no desire does not mean others don't.

    Millions have desire to play WOW. In fact, there are still 8M+ after so many years. GW2 sold millions.

     

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    That is always the problem with games.

    Implementation, polish, details are more important (at least to me) in games than the high concept.

     

    i would argue with that

    wow, gw2, rift, swtor ..... - more or less any newer AAA title - they all have good implementation, polish, detail .... and i have no desire at all to play them, simply because their concept isnt appealing to me.

    You have no desire does not mean others don't.

    Millions have desire to play WOW. In fact, there are still 8M+ after so many years. GW2 sold millions.

     

    true, but thats because they like the concept - i dont really see anyone playing a game he doesnt like a concept of no matter how well it is executed.

    it's like saying that person who plays fps dont play sport games only because they dont have high production values. :)

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAPosts: 22,441Member
    Originally posted by Benedikt
     

    true, but thats because they like the concept - i dont really see anyone playing a game he doesnt like a concept of no matter how well it is executed.

    it's like saying that person who plays fps dont play sport games only because they dont have high production values. :)

    My point is the we have to have both.

    Plenty of people NOT play a game because of poor implementation.

    Secondly, concept is easy. Anyone with 3 hours can come up with a bunch. There are plenty of concepts to copy too (in fact, any fantasy RPG is a copy of something). But good details and implementation? That is much harder to copy.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nariusseldon
    Originally posted by Benedikt
     

    true, but thats because they like the concept - i dont really see anyone playing a game he doesnt like a concept of no matter how well it is executed.

    it's like saying that person who plays fps dont play sport games only because they dont have high production values. :)

    My point is the we have to have both.

    Plenty of people NOT play a game because of poor implementation.

    Secondly, concept is easy. Anyone with 3 hours can come up with a bunch. There are plenty of concepts to copy too (in fact, any fantasy RPG is a copy of something). But good details and implementation? That is much harder to copy.

    thats all proly true, my point is that people first decide based on concept (will i even try this game?) then on implementation (do i like how it is done?)

    sure, if the concept is as easy as "shoot at your enemy in cramped arena until he dies!" :) then implementation means a lot more then if concept is really deep

  • ArclanArclan Chicago, ILPosts: 1,494Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Benedikt
    Originally posted by Arclan Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to: 1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot. 2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads 3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards. 4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time. 5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.
    noone is forcing you to do the quests and interacts with npcs

    i certainly dont when i play vanguard :) i just ignore them and roam around killing what i meet :)



    If you don't follow the quests then you are severly handicaping yourself; which is your option; but we can't expect others to handicap themselves because they won't.

    Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
    In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit

  • monarc333monarc333 New York, NYPosts: 615Member Uncommon

    It was a good niche game for a long time. I had my fun playing it, especially the boats and housing. But its days are coming to a close. I think games like AA and EQnext will put it to bed. And that's OK. It lived well if not perfectly. People had fun there. The Sandbox crowd will have new lands to travel soon.

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

     

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.

     


    Vanguard had the potential to be this, but failed when $OE insisted that key WoW gameplay elements be added in. $OE effectively killed this game while very publicly being heralded as saving it.

    I would more or less agree with this. Vanguard was at its best in early beta, with the early combat system and where the NPCs were characters rather than quest dispensers. To the moron saying [mod edit] "Well you don't HAVE to talk to NPCs!" Yes, it's pretty much the only way to level up. The way its organized is very artificial, whereas it used to have characters out in the world in their proper places.

     

    SoE ruined the game by adding in BoE, reducing death penalty, making it more of a quest grinder, spending resources on trial islands instead of new features, removing EE.

  • BenediktBenedikt PraguePosts: 1,406Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I would more or less agree with this. Vanguard was at its best in early beta, with the early combat system and where the NPCs were characters rather than quest dispensers. [mod edit] "Well you don't HAVE to talk to NPCs!" Yes, it's pretty much the only way to level up. The way its organized is very artificial, whereas it used to have characters out in the world in their proper places.

     

    SoE ruined the game by adding in BoE, reducing death penalty, making it more of a quest grinder, spending resources on trial islands instead of new features, removing EE.

    [mod edit]

    no, you dont have to talk to npcs - i am not and i am leveling just fine.

    is it slower them doing the quests? sure it is, but who cares, only those who think game starts at max level, which is imo one of the worst things modern games brought to mmorpg genre

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

    1. No quest hubs means people will get bored and quit.

    2. No quest marks means people will get bored and quit.

    3. I'm basically okay with this suggestion, except its much much much too late now. It would only frustrate new players since they have a longer way to join the old players.

    4. Less regen means people will have more downtime, get bored and quit.

    5. Thats an ancient idea that never ever worked well. It also adds zippo to the game. And it obviously wont work well with low population, either.

     

  • naZchoconaZchoco athens, TNPosts: 82Member
    Originally posted by Adamantine
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

    1. No quest hubs means people will get bored and quit.

    2. No quest marks means people will get bored and quit.

    3. I'm basically okay with this suggestion, except its much much much too late now. It would only frustrate new players since they have a longer way to join the old players.

    4. Less regen means people will have more downtime, get bored and quit.

    5. Thats an ancient idea that never ever worked well. It also adds zippo to the game. And it obviously wont work well with low population, either.

     

    Agreed. This is what 90% of us wanted with Vanguard who were so pumped when it was releasing. 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Adamantine
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

    1. No quest hubs means people will get bored and quit.

    2. No quest marks means people will get bored and quit.

    3. I'm basically okay with this suggestion, except its much much much too late now. It would only frustrate new players since they have a longer way to join the old players.

    4. Less regen means people will have more downtime, get bored and quit.

    5. Thats an ancient idea that never ever worked well. It also adds zippo to the game. And it obviously wont work well with low population, either.

     

    If people get bored and quit just because they're not being led around by the hair, then they aren't the right audience for Vanguard anyway. I don't understand this mentality of sacrificing good and unique features to please a crowd that never stays with a game anyway.

    I never quit DAoC when it lacked quest markers and hubs. I DID quit once they added them.

    And yes, player brokers worked wonderfully in almost every MMO they were ever put in. DAoC and UO especially. And it was the core aspect of SWG's crafting system, which is considered the best in the genre.

    But you wouldn't know, because I guess you got bored and quit.

  • RamanadjinnRamanadjinn Huntsville, ALPosts: 1,365Member Uncommon

    I just tried to go play this one the other day.

    Had to restart the game 4 times to get a character created because of all the bugs in the creator and once in I find it crashes too frequently for me to have much fun.

    Looks like a fun game I just can't get the blasted thing to work.

  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.

    Agreed..

    Vanguard is the last MMO to come out where the world.... actually feels like a world.

     

    Its the only somewhat recent MMO that  I actually become completely engrossed in.

  • Tindale111Tindale111 croydonPosts: 197Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    I've tried it probably 2 dozen times since it started but only once since it went f2p. 

    Vanguard will, for me, always be the one that could.  On paper it has almost everything I look for in an MMO.  In practice it seems like for every feature they got to a point of good enough and stopped. 

    Each time I try it I last about a week before I'm totally bored. 

    end result - to me the game is just ok, not enough draw to pull me from the games I am playing. 

    not to be rude but if you've tried it for a week 2 dozen times before being bored 24 weeks of play cant be bad :)

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by Arclan

    Vanguard is absolutely not worth another go. It is currently a mindless-task-follow themepark. They need to:


    1. Get rid of quest hubs; place the NPCs in their original spot.
    2. Remove punctuation marks above NPC heads
    3. Reduce quest xp by 75%, and get rid of the phat quest rewards.
    4. Reduce out of combat regen by 50% at least. You shouldn't be able to crawl through an entire dungeon with zero down time.
    5. Get rid of the Auction brokers; let players set up their own auction location.

     

     


    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    There never was a better MMO for exploration than Vanguard. It was the last MMO crafted as a virtual world.

     


    Vanguard had the potential to be this, but failed when $OE insisted that key WoW gameplay elements be added in. $OE effectively killed this game while very publicly being heralded as saving it.

     

    Ah yeah, the last thing this game needs is to lower quest XP. The game is already painfully slow to level in unless you have a solid group to AE grind.  That's why no one ever makes it to max level anymore.  If the game had the population to support long levelling times, sure go for gold, but that ship has sailed. Just let them get to max level quicker and turn more areas into max level zones.

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