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Does a skill based game really work for EQ?

hgkenshinhgkenshin Burnsville, MNPosts: 5Member

To me it seems like the lore/faction system that was established in EQ1 (which was in my opinion awesome) doesn't really work well with a skill based system does it?  So many classes identified with specific deities in lore that it seems like a every character being able to do everything really doesn't fit that mold.  Races also had restrictions on what classes they could choose... for example you wouldn't find Ogre wizards or troll clerics.  So how would a skill based system really fit into the pre-established lore and factions that EQ has created and what makes it so exciting? 

 

To see a Ogre wizard or something crazy like that would kind of feel odd to me.  I know it technically wouldn't be a wizard if it was a skill based system but an ogre whipping out wizard type spells is kind of what I am trying to say.  I really enjoyed EQ1 for the time that I played which was from launch for about 6 years and it seems like a skill based system just doesn't really fit well with everything EQ has been built upon... but that could just be me I guess.

 

I also enjoyed the faction type system built into the game.  Some races were considered good, some neutral, and some evil and that obviously affected where you could go safely and sometimes what you could do.  Hopefully people remember the game telling you what difficulty your race/class/deity selection would be.

 

I thought that kind of stuff was cool and made for an interesting dynamic that some MMOs are missing today.  Just feels like it wouldn't work so well in a skill based system where everyone can theoretically "do everything" if they want to after enough time leveling skills and what not.

 

Curious what others think.

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Comments

  • tillerodertilleroder Walnut Creek, CAPosts: 12Member

    I definitely see where you're coming from there.

    I also see EQ as a more social focused game (possible because it dates back to a time when games demanded more social interaction for completing tasks than today's games that implement robust 'social' systems). When the game requires 'twitch' skill, there is much less time for socializing. 

    I'm not saying either is good or bad. I'm just trying to describe a difference I've observed.

    Personally, I don't think twitch based skills feel 'EQ'.

  • giga1000giga1000 Federal Way, WAPosts: 98Member

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hgkenshin

    To me it seems like the lore/faction system that was established in EQ1 (which was in my opinion awesome) doesn't really work well with a skill based system does it?  So many classes identified with specific deities in lore that it seems like a every character being able to do everything really doesn't fit that mold.  Races also had restrictions on what classes they could choose... for example you wouldn't find Ogre wizards or troll clerics.  So how would a skill based system really fit into the pre-established lore and factions that EQ has created and what makes it so exciting? 

    To see a Ogre wizard or something crazy like that would kind of feel odd to me.  I know it technically wouldn't be a wizard if it was a skill based system but an ogre whipping out wizard type spells is kind of what I am trying to say.  I really enjoyed EQ1 for the time that I played which was from launch for about 6 years and it seems like a skill based system just doesn't really fit well with everything EQ has been built upon... but that could just be me I guess.

    I also enjoyed the faction type system built into the game.  Some races were considered good, some neutral, and some evil and that obviously affected where you could go safely and sometimes what you could do.  Hopefully people remember the game telling you what difficulty your race/class/deity selection would be.

    I thought that kind of stuff was cool and made for an interesting dynamic that some MMOs are missing today.  Just feels like it wouldn't work so well in a skill based system where everyone can theoretically "do everything" if they want to after enough time leveling skills and what not.

    Curious what others think.


    I agree.  I could deal wit a skill based progression system though.

  • hgkenshinhgkenshin Burnsville, MNPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

  • giga1000giga1000 Federal Way, WAPosts: 98Member
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonPosts: 845Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

    You could however make it entirely skill based and impossible to be an Ogre Wizard.  Your young Ogre wanders the world learning things but finds he just cant understand this magic stuff or his spells always fizzle or become something else so he gives up and starts hitting things instead.

  • hgkenshinhgkenshin Burnsville, MNPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

    Also agreed but for example if you were to follow Mithaniel Marr as your deity.. would it not be strange if you could learn necromancer type skills? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that doesn't really make sense or fit with the EQ lore/faction system that I'm accustomed to.

  • giga1000giga1000 Federal Way, WAPosts: 98Member
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

    Also agreed but for example if you were to follow Mithaniel Marr as your deity.. would it not be strange if you could learn necromancer type skills? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that doesn't really make sense or fit with the EQ lore/faction system that I'm accustomed to.

    I agree but again they may be rewriting the book on all lore you are accustom to. Who says mith marr is what it was any more or even that mith mar even ever exists. That goes for all EQ lore who even says trolls are in the lore or even evil? Who says Evil and good even exist any more? Reimagining the EQ universe can be a full overhaul you will know Aug 2nd haha.

  • hgkenshinhgkenshin Burnsville, MNPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

    Also agreed but for example if you were to follow Mithaniel Marr as your deity.. would it not be strange if you could learn necromancer type skills? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that doesn't really make sense or fit with the EQ lore/faction system that I'm accustomed to.

    I agree but again they may be rewriting the book on all lore you are accustom to. Who says mith marr is what it was any more or even that mith mar even ever exists. That goes for all EQ lore who even says trolls are in the lore or even evil? Who says Evil and good even exist any more? Reimagining the EQ universe can be a full overhaul you will know Aug 2nd haha.

    Very true as well.. Although I hope they don't go that route I guess... everquest has a lot of awesome lore and that's one of its strong points imo.. it would be a shame to scrap it all.

  • asdarasdar Tequesta, FLPosts: 662Member Uncommon

    I hope they have classes and not open.

    Skill based to me means that progression is through skills and not levels. I don't think it's generally counter to classes. You could be locked into the Mage class and only have mage skills available to progress in.

    I wouldn't mind that at all. I worry about skill based because to me it turned Darkfall into more of a grind than most any game I've played. There it was more of a stat grind than a skill grind, but it wasn't a good thing.

    Asdar

  • GiffenGiffen Lacey, WAPosts: 268Member Uncommon
    Simple solutions...some races have lower caps on some skills than others, so Ogre's would have lower cap on magic skill, for example.  Could also make the rate at which you gain skill ups slower based on your relative cap level.  Or you could completely lock out certain skills from certain races.
  • hgkenshinhgkenshin Burnsville, MNPosts: 5Member
    Originally posted by Giffen
    Simple solutions...some races have lower caps on some skills than others, so Ogre's would have lower cap on magic skill, for example.  Could also make the rate at which you gain skill ups slower based on your relative cap level.  Or you could completely lock out certain skills from certain races.

    I suppose that's possible as well but it seems like you might as well just make a class based game.  Maybe they'll let you multiclass between the possible class options for each race I guess.  That might be an interesting option that might be doable.

  • TelondarielTelondariel Ottawa, ONPosts: 1,001Member
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    EQ2 really broke down a lot of barriers of race and class, as well as alignment in some cases.  Ogres could become wizards and trolls could be healers (Defilers and Inquisitors who were on the evil spectrum).  There was a lore explanation as to why the Ogres became intelligent again, something about a curse being broken by Rallos Zek maybe?  Not sure on that, but I'm sure a lore hound will pipe in.

     

    I do hope there are class restrictions if they are going to have good and evil factions.  For instance, High Elves tend to be good and it doesn't makes sense for them to, in their home city, become necromancers.  Now, in EQ2 you could betray to and evil city so that could happen, and vice versa for an evil race like a Troll.

     

    So, in a skill system, if you had a pool of abilities to put points into, I think some should be considered Evil (like summoning the dead or lifedrain) and some Good (repel undead and a holy direct damage spell) and thus only available to their respective factions.  It still allows for freedom in building your character, but it keeps the lore intact of the races and their general alignments.

    image
  • hMJemhMJem Marysville, WAPosts: 465Member
    Originally posted by Telondariel
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    EQ2 really broke down a lot of barriers of race and class, as well as alignment in some cases.  Ogres could become wizards and trolls could be healers (Defilers and Inquisitors who were on the evil spectrum).  There was a lore explanation as to why the Ogres became intelligent again, something about a curse being broken by Rallos Zek maybe?  Not sure on that, but I'm sure a lore hound will pipe in.

     

    I do hope there are class restrictions if they are going to have good and evil factions.  For instance, High Elves tend to be good and it doesn't makes sense for them to, in their home city, become necromancers.  Now, in EQ2 you could betray to and evil city so that could happen, and vice versa for an evil race like a Troll.

     

    So, in a skill system, if you had a pool of abilities to put points into, I think some should be considered Evil (like summoning the dead or lifedrain) and some Good (repel undead and a holy direct damage spell) and thus only available to their respective factions.  It still allows for freedom in building your character, but it keeps the lore intact of the races and their general alignments.

    Whose to say EQN will even have true starter zones? A lot of MMORPG's are doing away with starter zones where you're sectioned off by race.

     

    FFXIV:ARR starts you off in one of the major cities with a bunch of other races.

  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Guelph, ONPosts: 182Member

    This topic is racist! RAcist!
    I played a troll inquisitor in EQ2, and even though his strengths didn't really support being a healer, I was glad that I managed to make him one. Even though he was a big brutish evil one.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,277Member Uncommon
    "Skill based" is one of these forum's buzz words. It means just about as much as "clunky".
  • Redfeather75Redfeather75 Guelph, ONPosts: 182Member


    Originally posted by bcbully
    "Skill based" is one of these formums buzz words. It means just about as much as "clunky".

    If you don't have that post macro'd by now, you should do it. Doo eet now!

  • Pneuma001Pneuma001 Phoenix, AZPosts: 39Member

    I've always played D&D and the player characters in most cases would be the exception to the rule.  If I wanted to be a troll wizard then I should be able to be a troll wizard and be that exception to the rule.  It shouldn't be limited, but it should be hard.

    In Norrath the reason that there are no Troll wizards to speak of comes from a number of possible factors working together:

    1. Trolls are stupid.  They may find that learning magic is difficult.  Thier stats may reflect this.

    2. Trolls are strong and regenerate.  They probably find it much easier to melee everything.

    3. There may be a social stigma against magic wielders.  Only someone who is weak should need magic.  Weaklings should be eaten, not coddled.

    4. There are no troll wizard trainers, anywhere.  There may be one single troll wizard NPC in all of Norrath.  The other trolls think he probably lives alone in his tower because he is weak (and should be eaten).

    5. Magic is scary.  Unless it comes from the gods then its probably evil.  Like, even more evil than trolls.  Or evil in a different way.  Troll culture may nearly universally harbor the opinion that "I don't understand it, thus it is bad."

    NONE of these things actually stop me from being a troll wizard.  They'll get me laughed out of town and shunned by the other trolls.  And I may have to grind a crapload of Neriak faction before the Dark Elf wizard trainer will even talk to me. And after I start casting spells I may never be able to return to the troll city. I may find it more difficult than normal to get access to spells and I'll probably pay more for them due to my low charisma. These are realistic hurdles which make a realistic life of a troll wizard very hard, but not altogether impossible, just like it is not altogether impossible to grind faction in EQ1 and join the "good" team.  Its just hard as hell.

    A good MMO should be a collection of stuff that you can do in the world, not a collection of rules about what you can't do.  There should be no rule that makes it impossible to be any race/class combination.

    As someone else mentioned recently, there are certain things that you can do in EQ1 which will gain you bragging rights and you won't even have to say a word.  If you're a high elf that can stroll through the streets of the Troll city unmolested then you'll demand instant recognition from other players.  You don't see any NPC high elves in evil cities without a good reason, just like you don't see any troll wizards.  But that's no reason that a PC should be stopped from doing it.

  • DejoblueDejoblue Youngstown, OHPosts: 296Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000
    Originally posted by hgkenshin
    Originally posted by giga1000

    think of it this way... I am a young ogre or troll and one day I want to be a wizard. Why can't that be? Who says you have to be equill to others of that class? there should be hardships for choosing races and class mixes. let the players decide if they want that hardship and if they do skill can always make up for the hardship.

    I played a Gnome Sk in EQ1 and loved it. Everyone told me to reroll and how gnomes are a horrible race to choose for a Tank class but I learned to be more skilled at the class because of the hardship of my race class combo. in the end my skill make me equill to the other SK's but in the end it was my choice.

    If more games had more hardships from player choices people would have more fun and not look just at stats but at actual skill. In the end the game will be more diverse and more realistic and all around more fun to play because the took the hardship for their choice at having fun and enjoyed every minute of it even when it was rough because that is where memories and personal story's come from.

    Don't get me wrong I understand where you are coming from but the reason I'd say why you can't be one is because Everquest lore has never supported such a thing.. well I never played EQ2 so I guess I can't definitively say that.. but it doesn't feel like the world of Everquest to me if we have troll wizards... if you get what I'm saying.

    yeah I totally get ya but remember EQNext is a reimagining of the EQ uninverse and If they made it tough to be a troll Wizard as in you have no class to start with as a choice and were set out with a stick to make your own way through exploring and learning which lead to a path to any class you wanted to be but to a lesser degree or greater depending on how hard you worked at it that would be evolutionary IMO to the MMO universe.

    Also agreed but for example if you were to follow Mithaniel Marr as your deity.. would it not be strange if you could learn necromancer type skills? That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that doesn't really make sense or fit with the EQ lore/faction system that I'm accustomed to.

    This is what intrigues me more than a  skill based system. Smedley said we have no idea how much faction will play a role in EQN.

     

    Imagine that you are a Paladin type character and then you learn some necromancy spells, now you are more of a Shadow Knight type character. It doesn't happen instantly, it takes faction from your deity. Your initial necro spells fizzle because your Mithaniel Marr faction is high but every time you use a necro spell successfully you gain some Bertoxxulous faction or Rallos Zek faction, eventually you are a full Shadow Knight and your paladin type spells, say maybe holy spells fizzle.

    So a constant push and pull every time you use a spell or ability the gods react and your powers wax and wane.

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,229Member Uncommon

    I don't mind skill based systems iff they are built with restrictions. Only reason being is that skill based system lend themselves to "optimal builds" and lead to exclusion because you are playing something you feel is fun (aka troll wizard) but just isn't good enough to bring into a group.

    Now, if there's no such thing as progression content, then I'm all for it. No one will care what build you use as the only thing that matters is participation, but when a raid boss needs to die in a certain amount of time before he wipes the raid . . . then you become a liability because you didn't choose "the best" skills.

     

  • CamoebCamoeb Goshen, CTPosts: 53Member

    It'll be interesting to see what direction SoE goes with this. I remember people complaining about the fact that EQ2 had no class/race restrictions. Although the option is there you still don't see many Ogre wizards or other strange combinations like that. People normally pick a race with abilities that compliment the class they are playing. Even if EQN is skill based  you generally have an idea of what you'll be playing as. If you intend to play as a caster regardless of what type you specialize in you'll pick a race that has higher intelligence that will compliment the play-style you're choosing.

  • AceshighhhhAceshighhhh Gainesville, FLPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by tilleroder

    I definitely see where you're coming from there.

    I also see EQ as a more social focused game (possible because it dates back to a time when games demanded more social interaction for completing tasks than today's games that implement robust 'social' systems). When the game requires 'twitch' skill, there is much less time for socializing. 

    I'm not saying either is good or bad. I'm just trying to describe a difference I've observed.

    Personally, I don't think twitch based skills feel 'EQ'.

    But realistically, tab-target and auto-attack based skills don't leave much room for socializing either.

    When I used to raid in WoW, we NEVER had time to stop and type something out to our party, everyone had to use VoiP - which brings me to my next point.

    Why not focus on voice programs to encourage socializing, why does it all have to be text-based? I feel that technology is heading that way anyways. I think dumbing down combat to prioritize community is a completely wrong way to approach games. Most people I know play video games for the combat, and THEN they stay because of the community.

    That's why EQN should move forward with a more engaging and skill-based combat system. It doesn't make sense to get stuck in the past with the archaic systems we've been using for decades. It makes much more sense to have an open, real-time combat system to stay consistent with the open-world sandbox type gameplay SOE is advertising. 

     

    Edit: You can also argue that true sandbox gameplay doesn't feel 'EQ' either

  • AceshighhhhAceshighhhh Gainesville, FLPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    "Skill based" is one of these forum's buzz words. It means just about as much as "clunky".

    That's weird, because I always thought that "target-based", and "auto-attack" means "clunky".

  • StilerStiler Athens, TNPosts: 599Member

    Personally I never liked the whole class restrictions for races, it makes little/no sense.

     

    I mean it's like if in our world you told Asian's they could only do work in jobs related to math and science and told a white person they could only work on wall street.

    Races should not be "restricted" to specific classes, if someone want sto make a troll wizard, they should be able to make a troll wizard.

     

    Now that doesn't mean that troll wizard can't be "Different" then sya, a human wizard, or mor ediffcult to learn, but it should be an option.

     

  • HorusraHorusra maryland, MDPosts: 2,581Member Uncommon
    There is some legal sticky stuff to having voice as the primary form of communication in the game.  No matter the small print you have a kid talking to a predator that can be pointed back to the game could being a lawsuit.  While you might say text chat does the same it is a lot harder to pick out the "kid" with text than when you hear the voice.  Different web sites and phone chat groups have faced this with requiring 18 and up to use them. 
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