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We don't need anymore PvP focused sandbox mmos right now.

MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member

There's a lot of debate on the Everquest Next forums about whether the game is going to be heavily PvP focused or not and most of this has stemmed from some comments from Smed  that have insinuated a heavy PvP focus of the game.  To what extent that focus is we won't know until the reveal, but still, it makes me think to myself why even think about going that route?  Pretty much every bigger name sandbox currently available (Darkfall, EVE, Mortal Online, Age of Wushu etc) and coming down the pipeline (Archeage, The Repopulation) is PvP focused.  Do we seriously need another one like that?  It's pretty well known PvE focused gamers greatly outnumber PvP focused ones, so why continually churn out games for a niche market while that same market is devoid of products for the bigger (PvE)  population?  Makes no sense........ 

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Comments

  • AdalwulffAdalwulff Sacramento, CAPosts: 1,152Member

    Funny, I was just reading that thread.

    We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.

    Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

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  • TheLizardbonesTheLizardbones Arkham, VAPosts: 10,910Member


    Originally posted by Adalwulff
    Funny, I was just reading that thread.We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

    In a theme park, ya, that gets old quick. But we're talking about sandboxes. Sandboxes can encompass a lot of other game play that has nothing to do with PvP, and nothing to do with theme park staples, and is rewarding in itself.

    The PvP thing has been tried and done to death. Maybe it's time for a PvE focused sandbox more along the lines of Minecraft than Call of Duty.

    I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  • kueykuey SydneyPosts: 39Member
    Increase the difficulty and reduce the predictability in PvE engagements and you might see a resurgence of the PvE genre. The monotony of PvE at the moment is half the reason the PvP fanbase is steadily growing.
  • MargulisMargulis Glendale, AZPosts: 1,614Member
    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Funny, I was just reading that thread.

    We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.

    Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

    You want more PvP focused mmo's in general?  Ok, sure, that's fine with me.  But let's be fair, you've already got a bunch of sandbox PvP mmo's to choose from and us PvE gamers have basically zero.  So, in this regard (sandboxes) - we're way overdue for something to play.

  • Sajman01Sajman01 Rochester, NYPosts: 204Member
    All I ask is for one PvE centric game that is deviod of any PvP. That way Devs don't have to balance around it, devote time to it, and I don't have to deal with PvP crowd.

    Its not that I dont like PvP, its that MOBAs do it better. When I want that style of gameplay, I'll play Dota2.
  • kjempffkjempff AarhusPosts: 882Member Uncommon

    "pve gets old real fast" is a funny argument that is only based on preferences. To me pvp gets dull and repetetive real fast because to me the gameplay and tactical elements often turn simplistic. It is not that I dislike pvp, I just like it in small dozes and as soon as I spot the optimal tactics either used by others or myself, I loose interest. So that argument goes both ways depending on what You prefer. I would argue pve players mostly play games for the rpg elements, while pvp players mostly play games for the competetive elements.

     

    Do we need more pvp focused sandbox mmos now ?

    Not if You think about how many of those are going to hit the market real soon. That SoE chooses to compete with all those other games by making yet another pvp based game is beyond my understanding. Since 2005 we have not seen a single good pve based mmorpg, and players are still mmo-jumping and ending up in WoW as it is still the best of the bad. Maybe SoE are blinded by the many failures and think pve are too hard to make, instead of realizing the failure is how they are made. Maybe they really think Eq2 was a step up, count numbers,  and in that light make assumtions.

    Well there is also the chance that the actually have come up with a revolutionary new pvp concept that will not be intrusive on pve players and therefore not make them leave.. we shall see, SoE works in mysterious ways.

     

    edit/add: I am happy that so many comments below accept that there is such a thing as pve sandbox, and not accepting sandbox = pvp.

  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon

    If they promote this game as a PVP game, it's dead out of the gate.

    PVE players outnumber PVP players tenfold.

  • Raven322Raven322 CanberraPosts: 56Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Funny, I was just reading that thread.

    We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.

    Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

     

    You need more PvP games like EVE or DF?

    Wait why aren't you playing DF or EVE then? Why do you need a third one?

  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVPosts: 2,228Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Raven322
    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Funny, I was just reading that thread.

    We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.

    Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

     

    You need more PvP games like EVE or DF?

    Wait why aren't you playing DF or EVE then? Why do you need a third one?

    That's what I was thinking too.

    PvE'ers are saying, "we need a game that ISN'T WoW or a WoW clone. In fact, many are asking for PvE sandbox.

    But PvPers are constantly going on about how amazing games like EVE are . . . yet . . . they don't want to play such an amazing game? Makes no sense. So PvPers want games that are like what already exists? Why not just play what already exists then since it, you know, exists?

     

     

  • Four0SixFour0Six Missoula, MTPosts: 1,181Member Uncommon

    "We" need to stop telling "Devs what to dev".

    I think that is the biggest issue we have now, so many voices crying out to be catered to. How about we take a look at the game the developer developed, if we like it we play it, if we don't we don't.

    Like another poster said : There are other games out there to play.

    What I find most intriguing is that, as I understand since I didn't play it, EQ had different server rule sets. PvP, RP, PvE, blah blah. Now it seems to me this model should satisfy all involved. Yet all I hear is "EQN MUST BE PvP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "EQN MUST BE PvE!!!!!!!!!!!!!", "EQN MUST BE RP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!".....

    For the love of pete!, could we please just wait for another 3.5 weeks then let the Flame War begin then.

  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,047Member Uncommon

    We don't need anymore PVP focused sandbox MMOs

     

    Focused being the key word.

    I often wonder how great EVE would be if it was not ultimately a PVP game in its core.

     

    Yes - Eve is PVP game built around sandbox.

    It should be other way around.

    Sandbox should come first - and PVP should be just a possibility comming from all encompasing freedom of the system.

     

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  • whisperwyndwhisperwynd montreal, QCPosts: 1,479Member
    Originally posted by Raven322
    Originally posted by Adalwulff

    Funny, I was just reading that thread.

    We desperately need more PvP games, but they need to be more like DF:UW or EVE.

    Doesn't mean we cant have good PvE, but there is no substitute for playing against another person. Playing against the computer in Raids or other grind fests, gets old real fast.

     

    You need more PvP games like EVE or DF?

    Wait why aren't you playing DF or EVE then? Why do you need a third one?

    Or Age of Wushu, or MO even.

    PvP in an mmo really needs to be a part of the world, the story of your character/race/class/faction or it's mind-numbingly pointless. 

    Games like WoT, CoD, even Chivalry:Medieval warfare do it just fine for those with bloodlust. 

    A huge open world with PvP everywhere is unrealistic and unimaginative.

  • keenberkeenber galwayPosts: 438Member
    What we need is anorther SWG as the PVP in that game didnt effect PVErs and was actually fun to watch PVPers fighting sometimes.
  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Oxon Hill, MDPosts: 1,147Member Uncommon
    Its laughable to point to a game of said genre and say why don't you play it? Will you play horrible PvE themepark games just because you like themepark games? Obviously with the amount of PvE themepark games out you never need a new one or one with any quality right?
  • apocolusterapocoluster newport news, VAPosts: 1,321Member Uncommon
    Might as well give it to them bro.   If the Pvp- tardy need a forum to wave their Ipeens at each other or they will implode

    No matter how cynical you become, its never enough to keep up - Lily Tomlin

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member

    And the pissing contest will continue until Aug 2nd... that is if they even make a statement on the game in that area.  Knowing companies and hype they might very well continue to let speculation run rampant about if the game will be a Open World Non-consensual PvP or a more traditional rules for PvP (i.e. PvP servers or specific zones) in a sandbox.

    PvP advocates are reading between Smed's words and making interpretations that suits their desire and ignore the fact that he is stating his opinion (which in the past his opinion has caused many to make an assumed feature and later Smed had to make a statement that it was not so but only his opinion on the matter).  With storybricks in the picture I see as much merit for a PvE focused game as well as PvP focused game.  Not official statement nor tweat comes anywhere close enough for what EQN will be.

    Crap like this is why I avoid over hyped games until demos and substantial news is released.

    And I highly doubt that it will be a PvP focused game as all that is gonna do is shoot the game in the foot.  I can already see Smed's pitch on PvP open world non-consensual MMO.

    Smed:  I'd like to talk you you about EQN vision as an open world non-consensual PvP MMO...

    SOE: No.

    Smed: But a niche crowd...

    SOE: No.

    Smed:  EvE proves...

    SOE:  No.

    Smed: But...

    SOE:  The answer is NO.  We want a game that generates revenue and we will not invest nor fund anything for a "niche" crowd.  We only fund games that will provide substantial return investment.

    People are just grabbing at straws at the moment hoping for the wet dream MMO.

  • Raven322Raven322 CanberraPosts: 56Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal
    Its laughable to point to a game of said genre and say why don't you play it? Will you play horrible PvE themepark games just because you like themepark games? Obviously with the amount of PvE themepark games out you never need a new one or one with any quality right?

    Who said anything about playing games you don't like. He specifically mentioned two games he really likes. And how he wants this one to also be like them.

    Explain why that makes sense? If he likes the game, why isn't he playing it?

  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarrePosts: 3,540Member Uncommon

    All the successful sandbox MMORPGs are those who have well designed limitations to PvP, either 100% PvE servers (Ultima Online) or different levels of security (EvE). The PvP gank fest games like Darkfail and Mortal Online are tiny niche games with very small populations.

    I'd bet real money that EQ Next will have PvE servers. SoE won't put forced PvP in such a big franchise game.

    Playing now: WoW, Landmark, GW2, The Crew, SotA

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INPosts: 3,731Member Uncommon
    Absolutely agree that what is missing from this genre is a good PVE oriented sandbox....For some reason all these MMO feel that the players want not only PVP but full loot PVP....That limits the number of players who will try the game and also stay for any length of time.....I've never understood their thinking on this because the majority of us do not want full loot PVP.
  • WaterlilyWaterlily parisPosts: 2,973Member Uncommon
  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

    All the successful sandbox MMORPGs are those who have well designed limitations to PvP, either 100% PvE servers (Ultima Online) or different levels of security (EvE). The PvP gank fest games like Darkfail and Mortal Online are tiny niche games with very small populations.

    I'd bet real money that EQ Next will have PvE servers. SoE won't put forced PvP in such a big franchise game.

    I wouldn't call EVE having limitations of PvP.  Sure you have high sec space but most if not the vast majority of content one has to leave high sec space.  It's like having to stick to the woods in Goldshire in WoW killing boars like in the South Park episode.

  • kitaradkitarad RomePosts: 1,739Member Uncommon
    Does avoiding bad design decisions mean not forcing PvP  or forcing PvP ?

    image

  • alloinalloin DeinzePosts: 89Member

    Originally posted by lizardbones


     Maybe it's time for a PvE focused sandbox more along the lines of Minecraft than Call of Duty.

    Originally posted by Sajman01

    Its not that I dont like PvP, its that MOBAs do it better. When I want that style of gameplay, I'll play Dota2.

    Am I the only one laughing out loud when i read these things ?

  • furbansfurbans Tinbucktwo, IAPosts: 965Member
    Originally posted by kitarad
    Does avoiding bad design decisions mean not forcing PvP  or forcing PvP ?

    And let the speculation COMMENCE!!!!

    Polls show that by far the majority don't want non-consensual PvP which leads one to believe that it will not be forced.  Or they will simpely have PvP and PvE servers so people can have the best of both worlds.

  • XssivXssiv Haskell, NJPosts: 359Member
    Originally posted by keenber
    What we need is anorther SWG as the PVP in that game didnt effect PVErs and was actually fun to watch PVPers fighting sometimes.

    SWG's TEF system was fantastic!   I'm surprised more games didn't utilize something similar. 

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